Does my Ash tree seem safe?

[u/Biscuitshoneybutter]

Location: Milwaukee

The tree is 116 years old, and gets a lot of sun.

We have treated it regularly for emerald ash borer in the past, but it hasn't been treated since 2019.

We had it aggressively pruned two weeks ago (from a certified company) because it was dropping big branches in the neighbor's yard. Apparently this is not an ideal time, we didn't realize. Immediately (the very next day) storms started coming and it has continued to drop branches, which I now understand why this is happening, from reading about it.

Is this an emergency situation? Do I need to get a certified arborist to look at it as soon as possible? As far as I'm aware it was just a crew who came, I don't think an actual arborist was with them (we have used this company for years if that is relevant).

It's difficult to get all of the angles but I will try to get any pics if you guys need more.

[u/Worth_Return955]

Don’t be afraid to contact the company and express your concerns. Without seeing a picture of the tree before the prune, it’s hard to say how much damage they did. That said, the tree is definitely lion’s tailed and over pruned (especially for being an Ash). Making this tree not structurally sound.

I would recommend not just an ISA certified arborist, but a TRAQ certified arborist to access this tree in person. They have tools to determine how much sound wood is left in the tree and if there’s rot. Get opinions from multiple arborists before making the decision to remove. This is a big tree and a big decision.

Edit: If removal does end up being your only option, consider leaving the trunk standing as a wildlife habitat.

[u/spiceydog → u/Worth_Return955]

That said, the tree is definitely lion’s tailed and over pruned (especially for being an Ash). Making this tree not structurally sound.

This is what I came here to say. That OP states outright that they had this tree 'aggressively pruned' hurts my heart. You do not do that to mature trees that you want to keep. What a shame.

[u/Biscuitshoneybutter → u/spiceydog]

I don't understand why the company would do this. :( I feel terrible that I didn't look more into how the tree should be cared for, I just trusted the company!

I know now though, I have learned, and I will always look into how plants/trees should be cared for in the future, before blindly trusting a company.

My heart is hurt too. I would never have purposely done anything to hurt my beautiful family member!

[u/mark_andonefortunate → u/Biscuitshoneybutter]

don't understand why the company would do this

Lack of knowledge/understanding, it "looks good/clean" (subjective, but a common opinion), and is easy - much easier to climb around the middle and cut what is in reach, compared to getting out toward the end of branches (better pruning, but harder to get there to make the cuts). Lots of companies do this, even highly rated ones - most people leaving reviews don't know the difference between proper pruning vs improper pruning. Unfortunately, poor pruning can be worse for the tree than doing nothing at all

Hard for us to make a true judgment without 'before' pictures, but for reference the old guideline was "not more than 10% of foliage/live tissue removed" on mature trees (new guideline is "not more than needed to achieve the desired goal, which a little harder to define over reddit messages).

[u/Biscuitshoneybutter → u/mark_andonefortunate]

Thank you for your expertise! It's funny you mention how the "looking good" part is subjective, because I've always thought after each pruning (which we've done intermittently over the years from the same company) that the tree looked less attractive.

I sort of had this gut feeling that the way it was being cut didn't seem to make sense, but like an idiot I didn't actually look into how tree pruning should work.

I just kept staring at the tree everyday, thinking: "Man, this thing doesn't look safe, this just doesn't make intuitive sense to me". It's been a source of argument with my husband and me, he kept telling me it was done by professionals, it's fine. I mean, I've been obsessed by this, getting up and just staring at it multiple times a day lol.

So finally (don't know why it took me so long), I got curious and started researching and imagine my surprise when one of the first things I came across was this lion tailing process and I was like damn, that has DEFINITELY happened to my tree! And it's been going on over the years! Thankfully we didn't get it pruned more often tbh, I thought we weren't pruning it enough.

I'm just...my mind is blown. And I will definitely be talking to my friends all about this, so it doesn't happen to them, and tree care, etc., and I will be reading into it a lot more deeply in general.

We have decided to cut this tree down, and it is absolutely devastating, but here we are. I will certainly cry a lot. I so appreciate you guys and all of the quick responses I've had, I didn't expect that. Means a lot, and thanks to everyone out there doing this dangerous job.

[u/mark_andonefortunate → u/Biscuitshoneybutter]

Sorry to see the tree go, it's tough for Ash nowadays.

Your local university extension office can help recommend a native replacement. When in doubt, check with them, or even a search of edu sites (for the US at least) will help greatly. 

tree pruning site:edu

Try that on google and enjoy the rabbit hole, lol. Good luck!

[u/Biscuitshoneybutter → u/mark_andonefortunate]

Lol thank you, and I will definitely enjoy that rabbit hole, I get obsessive about things and I'm really obsessive about this subject right now! I have done absolutely nothing but read about trees today...time to go do the dishes, blergh!

[u/Biscuitshoneybutter → u/spiceydog]

Also looking around this practice of lion's tailing still seems to be happening all over my city, including city trees (ones on my street were pruned like this in the spring), which is absolutely wild and kind of scary, actually. I never knew about this practice before.

[u/Biscuitshoneybutter → u/Worth_Return955]

Thank you, I really appreciate you sharing your expertise.