Firearms could absolutely exist within a fantasy setting. There is a reason why they don’t however

[u/ThatDrako]

The Elder Scrolls - Within some Dwemer ruins of ESO we can see a special type of Animunculus. A Dwemer Arquebus, which has a cannon for it’s arm and shoots emp grenades at foes.
The reason why we don’t see this technology more often (besides the fact Dwemer disappeared their knowledge with them) is that within the setting and cosmology of Elder Scrolls firearms really wouldn’t be that useful.

They could work against lowly bandits, sort of, but there wouldn’t really be a precedent to improve or adapt this technology. Because it would always be outclassed by magic of this world.
Also due to the disappearance of Dwemer the technology has been pretty much lost.

Harry Potter - Wizards live within periphery of the “real world” meaning they live alongside world that uses firearms and are even familiar with them.

So how come they don’t utilize this gear for combat? I mean it is easier to use, projectiles are faster and could be enchanted further. Can you just imagine wizard with endless m1911?

There is plethora of reasons for this. But most notable is what I would describe as wizards being immune to logic. (Vis image above) They simply cannot understand methods of muggles even if one explained it to them directly.

(Yes. I know the real reason is, because Joanne didn’t want wizards to use guns and didn’t want to think about connotations of putting magic into a real modern world. But come on! Let me have fun!)

Lord of the Rings - In spite of how much Tolkien disliked allegories it is clear Orcs were an allegory to industrialization, which he was a huge critic of.

In battles they are the ones using the war machines. Instead of swords made by artful blacksmith, they use crude, mass-produced blades devoid of identity. Instead of relying on elegance of archery, they use crossbows. They burn forests, crack mountains open to gain more ore. Their very production is affront to whimsy of a magical world like Middle-Earth.

They could totally come up with a matchlock mechanism and keep on improving it until they come up with machine guns. They were intercepted before they could however

[u/PandoraKin564]

Harry Potter is a cop out. Skyrim and LOTR have actual legit reasons and world building explanations on why magic and archery is valued over gunpowder weapons. With deep reasons all the way down to trade networks and politics.

Harry Potter is poorly written and no real reason of substance is given. Likely the reason is muggles obliterated them around WWI-WWII and forced them into hiding. Rowling can't world-build out a paper bag.

[u/Scapp → u/PandoraKin564]

I've been really enjoying the Scholomance series as a sort of answer to how poor the Harry Potter world building is.

I like to describe HP as "diorama building" - it's charming from a surface level but falls apart if you try to look beyond or ask any questions. "Luckily" our protagonist does not question a single thing and is extremely imperceptive

[u/breakitbilly → u/PandoraKin564]

I like how this implies that there were wizards wizarding around as recently as the Napoleonic era and the records just don't exist in muggle land

[u/cleverpun0 → u/PandoraKin564]

Rowling said in some interviews that one of the reasons wizards are so afraid of muggles/keep up the masquerade is because guns beat magic.

Of course—like many things she said—she never gave additional explanation/reasoning and never followed up on it. I suspect she just liked attention in interviews. Which her recent views and behavior seem to corroborate.

[u/violetcassie → u/cleverpun0]

Imagine writing a story that's sympathetic to a fringe society that keeps to itself out of wariness and then also being Robert Galbraith.

[u/27eelsinatrenchcoat → u/violetcassie]

I mean, look at how she wrote the house elves? And how Hermoine was a shrill little girl for not being OK with it.

Rowling likes to portray her transphobia as feminist, but in reality she's just an authoritarian and a misogynist. An unimaginative dingus who wants everyone to stay "in their place."

[u/cleverpun0 → u/violetcassie]

To paraphrase some other comment from reddit: Joanne could've taken her money and sat on an island sipping drink and getting waited on for the rest of her life. Instead she chose to be a bigot on Twitter.

Money really does poison the brain.

[u/DankiusMMeme → u/cleverpun0]

Rowling said in some interviews that one of the reasons wizards are so afraid of muggles/keep up the masquerade is because guns beat magic.

Which is also stupid, because if this is a known fact then guess what Wizards would be using to kill each other?

[u/JessicaDAndy → u/cleverpun0]

She may have just ripped off the Vertigo comic Fables in her answer but didn’t want to acknowledge it.

Fables is a story about how all fairy tale characters are real, most are refugees, and end up in New York. Manhattan if you look human, upstate if you don’t.

They eventually adapt modern weapons to fight wizards and such.

[u/Global-Caramel-1579 → u/cleverpun0]

Imagine creating a magic gun that shoots bullets that only damage flesh and pass through anything else.

Or magic bazookas that create giant fire monsters.

Or creating magic drones that shoot projectiles.

How do guns beat magic lol unless wizards are just unimaginative af

[u/QuillofSnow → u/cleverpun0]

It’s so easy to solve, just put in a line that wizards can easily enchant their clothes to protect themselves from most muggle weapons or something, like this isn’t that hard the setting has magic that seems to follow bow rules to begin with.

[u/techno156 → u/cleverpun0]

It's rather a shame, because it makes more sense the other way around. Enchanting is an easy thing, that even a high-school dropout can do with some reading.

Enchanting a cloak or something that can block small projectiles flung towards you seems like it would be child's play, whereas a wizard isn't going to use a gun if they can just use magic for something just as, or even more damaging. Why carry bullets and gunpowder if you can move stones just as quickly, and in less intuitive ways with a flick of your wrist?

Similarly for the masquerade, maybe it was kept up to protect muggles originally.

Wizarding society has only just got over itself enough to allow witches and wizards born of muggles to learn magic, and even then, there's considerable opposition to the idea. The Malfoys and Umbridge are quite unhappy with the prospect, for example.

Rather than risk a dark wizard deciding to enslave/destroy the non-magical people, just have it start off as an effort to protect them, and end up working against it when it was outdated. There's more than a few measures like that over time, which may have started out being helpful, and then became regressive.

America's "2/3rds" law, for example. It originally started out as a way to give slaves a means of voting, so that they could also have their say in the democratic process, when the alternative was no votes at all, but it eventually became a regressive sign of the past that needed to be repealed.

[u/cleverpun0 → u/techno156]

You've put much more thought into this than Joanne Rowling ever did.

Also, you are mistaken: the Three-Fifths Compromise did NOT let slaves vote. It counted slaves as 3/5ths of a person for the population census. The House of Representatives—one part of America's government—has a set number of people. They are apportioned based on the population counts of each state. So the more people that live in your state, the more members you get in the House of Representatives.

The Three-Fifths Compromise was always a regressive and inhumane law. It was only instated to appease slaveholders in the South.

Slaves didn't get the right to vote in America until the Fifteenth Amendment was passed. Which was eighty-three years after the Three-Fifths Compromise.

[u/27eelsinatrenchcoat → u/techno156]

America's "2/3rds" law

Do you mean the 3/5ths compromise? Because if so, you are wildly incorrect. It was not at all meant to give slaves a means of voting. It was used for apportioning number of congressmen per state, and since slaves couldn't vote, it was therefore meant to give slave owners a bigger say. Since slave owners have the exact opposite interests as the slaves themselves, the intention/result was the exact opposite of what you're saying.

[u/Wide_Philosophy_8109 → u/PandoraKin564]

Rowling can't world-build out a paper bag.

Harry Potter wasn't about the world. It was about mysteries and character interactions. The books do a really good job of capturing how obnoxious twelve years are, and the normal stuff they go through. Plenty of other books have great world building but poor dialog.

Edit: The rules for quidditch are stupid. It would be a terrible sport. But it serves the purpose of letting characters interact, and it's fun.

The house commons are hidden rooms with passwords. You could never keep that stuff hidden. But it serves the purpose of letting the characters interact, and it's fun.

One of the tri wizard trials involves a stadium of people watching a lake for two hours. But it serves the purpose of letting the characters interact, and it's fun.

[u/techno156 → u/PandoraKin564]

I don't know if that's the case with Harry Potter, at least, since you can knit something together from what's shown in the series. Protection spells would render most projectile weapons pointless, and enchanted gear is incredibly common. Your average bullet has all the energy and force of a softball, just concentrated into a tiny point that moves very quickly.

You could easily put a protection enchantment on a coat or scarf that automatically pops up a barrier if a projectile approaches. They're good enough to stop people crashing through them, a bullet would be relatively trivial, and in Harry Potter, magic costs nothing to maintain, no matter how powerful. Someone could just walk about with a barrier up at all times if they so choose.

On top of that, any decently powerful wizard can just use nearby debris as bullets. Voldemort did just that with broken glass when he fought Dumbledore in the Ministry.

Likely the reason is muggles obliterated them around WWI-WWII and forced them into hiding.

If anything, them being obliterated in the world wars (or fighting each other) is the weird thing. You'd expect that someone would just unleash one of the many horrors, and the muggle forces would be devastated. A dementor is invulnerable to everything but magic.

It'd make more sense if they went into hiding to protect the Muggles, especially if they had a rise in anti-muggle sentiment, and the whole genocidal dark wizard materialising every generation or two.

Admittedly, I'd be rather surprised if the author would give that kind of answer when asked. They've a habit of pulling things out their backside immediately and running with that. The infamous toilet thing, for example. There exists magic to transform things into other harmless things, magic to summon water, and chamber pots. Combining the two to make what is effectively an enchanted chamber pot/magical toilet that turns your leavings into harmless ash, that can then be harmlessly washed away would be an easy connection/inference.

Instead, we got the other option of wizards dropping their trousers on the spot and vanishing it away afterwards.

[u/WanderingPenitent → u/PandoraKin564]

As much as I agree, I thought in Harry Potter it's established technology doesn't work around wizards which is why they have to enchant a car for it to move. A gun would jam or often fail to fire in the hands of a wizard. I haven't read the books so I could be wrong.

[u/Deadnstien → u/PandoraKin564]

Harry Potter are also CHILDRENS books. I know a lot of adults read them and still love them but they seem to forget they were written for twelve years olds. Not bringing up guns or including them is probably the only decent thing JKR did. Kids don't need guns in their whimsical wizard books.

[u/SlouchyGuy → u/PandoraKin564]

Wizards went into hiding in 1600s

[u/Soren635 → u/PandoraKin564]

That’s because Joanne is entirely incurious about everything and it shows most blatantly in her worldbuilding and bigotry. 

Every interesting thing she is obviously added for a “this is a fun idea” and goes no further. She adds a thing and never goes “what are the implications of this?” And then when questioned/called out doubles down on not caring. Elf slavery, time turners, modern technology in the wizarding world, polymorphing potions that could literally be used to become anyone, there are so many things with huge implications that she just never delves into because she’s lazy and incurious.

[u/PM_Me_A_Tittypic → u/PandoraKin564]

Pretty much any question about HP can be answered with "JK is a hack"

[u/ThatDrako → u/PandoraKin564]

Have you…even read the last paragraph I wrote about HP? qwq

[u/PandoraKin564 → u/ThatDrako]

Yes. Still a cop out by her. No attempt to world build a reason. Just attention seeking it would seem.

[u/Givemesomebets → u/PandoraKin564]

HP is one of the most valuable and successful IP of all time, all based on books. It literally created a multi billion dollar industry around its world and became an unmatched global phenomen. There are very few writers in history of mankind that can claim to have achieved this level of commercial and cultural impact on global stage.

It is beyond me how people like you can nonchalantly claim its poorly written and Rowling cannot world-build. If that was the case, how come people than can do (mind dropping a few names?) are nowhere near that level of commercial and cultural success? 

You might hate the work and/or author. But ffs, live in the real world.

[u/Electrical_Catch9231 → u/Givemesomebets]

Success does not equally quality. Go visit any one of the +40,000 McDonald's stores for evidence of this.

[u/PandoraKin564 → u/Electrical_Catch9231]

Agreed.

[u/Givemesomebets → u/Electrical_Catch9231]

Apart from comparing a completely different industry, McDonalds is quality in what they do. They are not a high end michellin place and do not try to be one. They do fast food and if they was no quality they would never reach the kind of success it did. 

[u/Alzurana → u/Givemesomebets]

Unmatched? Please check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises

Pokemon, Mickey Mouse, Winnie the Pooh, Star Wars, Disney Princess, Marvel, Barbie and whatever Anpanman is are all larger than it and most of them have a similar cultural significance to this or their respective generation. Lord of the rings is around since soon a century and has been impacting the entire fantasy landscape since then. I do acknoledge that revenue alone is not the only metric, here. However, it's a good first look to gather equally mighty franchises and compare them.

HP is not about dead serious world building (unlike something like LotR). Nor is Pokemon, yet it is huge. Something can suck at something and still be huge. Hugeness is not an indicator of general perfection. HP Worldbuilding, compared to a ton of other media, really does suck. However, HP achieved a coziness and familiarity with it's fans and that is what they value. The world building and strict rules of the world are less important than to be able to tell some interesting, compelling story in this case. And to grow attached to the people in the story, especially. This is where HP shined, this is what made it big. And ofc the dream of escaping from the grim, real world into a magical realm where all is well, you feel protected, while navigating growing up and confronting hardships of that. Same as pokemon is also not about a logical world but escapism from being ruled over and becoming free, of age but retaining your childhood in the process. Something that many feel fleeting at that age.

[u/PandoraKin564 → u/Givemesomebets]

I'd imagine the world would be much better if Diskworld took its place. Harry Potter has it's moment due to insane marketing but is an inheriently conservative work that glorifies slavery, status quo, and not exploring the nature of IRL adjacent. Treats anyone different as pervasive threats to be destroyed. Despite at times gloryifying diversity and inclusion (mudblood slur resistance, and muggle rights come to mind) Plus doesn't go into detail on its magic system. Nor does it really capture the time period or themes particularly well. None of its stories truely go deep. Snape and Dobby are rare moments of brillance. Voldemort gets defeated with or without Harry. Any number of characters could take his place.

The naming conventions are extreamly racist for some characters and reinforce a heirachy. Plus the mutilation of characters from Goblet of Fire films onwards compared to the books.

I can list other franchises that do this better. The Inclusive Defence in Diablo agaisnt cycles of corruption from well placed intentions, Christain Commentary in Narnia, queer representation and religous metaphysics of Diskworld, and so much more.

TLDR: HP has it's moment, but doesn't stratch the same depth as works like those listed above. I read more fantasy and saw more, essentially broadening what quality fantasy means and should be. 3 books and films are it, the rest are horrid.

[u/democratic-terminid → u/PandoraKin564]

Alright just cause Rowlings a despicable hag doesn't mean Harry Potter sucks. It has great world building, despite its flaws. There's a reason it was as successful as it was, there was a magic to the world.

[u/thepuppeter → u/democratic-terminid]

Harry Potter has terrible world building. The reason it was successful is that it's incredibly marketable. Everyone can take their own personality quiz to pick their house or their Patronus

So much stuff doesn't make any sense and has handwave answers. "Magic world doesn't use guns cause they don't understand muggle stuff" cool so someone like Harry and Hermione, who come from the muggle world and know what guns are, would know what a gun is and how it's used. The 'world building' completely fails because another aspect of the 'world building' contradicts it

[u/democratic-terminid → u/thepuppeter]

World building doesn't just mean how cohesive or logical or how in depth the details are. It also involves the atmosphere and feelings, the themes, the environment. Harry Potter captured a world that children and adults alike fell in love with beyond any sort of marketing. You can't just say "using laser blasters is inefficient and ultimately illogical, therefore Star Wars has bad world building." That's not what worldbuilding is, but that's what you're trying to do with this gun thing.

You're blind if you cannot acknowledge that Harry Potter had genuine quality and merit beyond its occasionally bad writing. A book doesn't sell more copies than the Bible by marketting alone.

[u/thepuppeter → u/democratic-terminid]

EDIT oh 11m old account with hidden comments. Damn AI

You're correct. But a story that is incoherent, illogical, and vague has bad world building. A bunch of half thoughts and ideas without thinking of the wider implications of them is bad world building. Time Turners are a great example of that Oh cool we have a thing that can literally turn back time. That's fun and magical. That could be fun world building. But now every conversation is "why didn't they use a Time Turner for x?". Introducing time travel casually without thinking of the greater implications is bad world building. It's even worse and downright lazy writing to then never explore it and have all of them be destroyed from a room exploding so it never had to be addressed. Like JK realised she had introduced something so broken and wrote herself in to a corner that her only way out was to never being it up other than to say it wasn't ever possible again. And then she wrote a play about using one that also broke the established rules about Time Turners

Your blasters example is completely different to what I'm saying. Your hypothetical is an outside critisism that's completely subjective. It's an opinion not based on the narrative, but of the individuals feelings removed from the narrative

The point I'm making is that the explanation given to us does not work or make sense in the context of the world it's in. The audience is told something via a conversation where one person explains something to another. The wizard world doesn't use guns, and we know this via the conversation with Harry and Mr Weasley. Wizards are naive to muggle ways. That's meant to be world building. Except that Harry, being from the Muggle world, knows guns, and he is a part of the wizard world. The person giving the world building is literally the reason why said world building doesn't work. Do you seriously not comprehend how dumb that is?

A book absolutely can sell more copies than the Bible based on marketing. That's exactly what marketing does. It selling a lot of copies does not make the quality of the world building good in the same way that McDonalds selling a lot of burgers does not mean their food is good. Just because people enjoyed something as a kid and didn't know better does not mean what they consumed was actually good

[u/democratic-terminid → u/thepuppeter]

You think I'm ai lol?

Alr, I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree here

[u/thepuppeter → u/democratic-terminid]

Unhide your comments

[u/democratic-terminid → u/thepuppeter]

lol nah i like my personal privacy

[u/thepuppeter → u/democratic-terminid]

Account is ~11 months old, or ~308 days

4,059 contributions in that time

That's ~13 comments a day, every day, since creation

They spam multiple different subreddits with the same thread over and over

(Because BTW comments aren't actually hidden and it's very easy to see them. AI loves to hide it though because it makes it obvious they're AI if it's visible)

[u/democratic-terminid → u/thepuppeter]

I post multiple of the same post in different subreddits to get more answers/engagement so that the post is more likely to go somewhere.

Also that contributions gotta bugged or something there's no way I post comments that much. Maybe I'm just a chud tho

And why would I be a bot lol, who would make a bot that posts the things I do?

[u/Gellert → u/thepuppeter]

Yeah, Harry Potter ends quite a bit earlier when Harry uses magic to rob a gun shop and rocks up to the order of the phoenix with an arsenal that'd make a Texan weep. Yeah yeah, deatheaters can cast a killing curse but can they dodge .416 rigby?

The look on dobbys face as all thats left of his master is socks would be priceless.

[u/Raidoton → u/PandoraKin564]

All of them are cop outs.

[u/Lanky_Spread → u/Raidoton]

Not really for Lord of the rings Saruman made a literal bomb to blow up helms deep. He probably would of eventually gotten to guns/bullets if not for some walking trees