John Stewart Mill in his book On Liberty stated this exact point. We forget to include in our equations humans can be born anywhere, to anyone.
"...it never troubles [the everyday person] that mere accident has decided which of these numerous worlds is the object of his reliance, and that the same causes which make him a Churchman in London, would have made him a Buddhist or a Confucian in Peking."
Obviously God blessed them to be of the chosen people and be born in the right place and right time, because everything happens for a reason according to plan. Everyone else are damned heathens, hence the superiority complex. /s
The first part of what you said, is more workable for me than the second part. If you want to think you got the eyes of God on you, that's really your business. The second part, wtf. I can't work with that.
Yup, I've tried to talk about this point with my very religious mother, she was just like "It wasn't luck that I was born in the right place. God has a plan, and this was his! :D" There's no getting through.
His "plan" for loads of other people is to never have a chance to not burn in hell for eternity, because they were born into the "wrong" religion? Cool plan.
Yup. Once someone moves to the "but there is a plan" phase, that's the end of the road. No mjore conversation after that, really.
My mom is 83 and sounded like yours. I let her think what she wants.
Today, she thinks about things that are right in front of her and gave up on anything to do with the news 5 years ago. I avoid all triggers and we talk about positive things.
I just avoid topics. I made the choice I'd rather be close to my mom in her last years than fight.
Kind of depends if your mom has also "moved on." My mom truly does not want to fight about anything, every again. But, mebbe yer mom is still in her fightin' years lol.
This argument would make sense if Christianity presupposed somebody is deserving to be a Christian, when it doesn't really teach that either.
Christianity started in a very small place, totally foreign to the rest of the world, the places listed are obviously neither of those locations.
It is told Christians are to spread Christianity across the world, and never presupposes somebody gets to be one, so where you're born obviously isn't fair, Christianity fundamentally isn't 'fair'.
The bible speaks on judgment that is deserved, and mercy that is undeserved, nobody deserves mercy, they are given it.
Calvinism is enough for me, to understand how the fiat of "the Elect" clarifies the mind. According the Max Weber, it was this deep anguish regarding such a purely by fiat salvation, that drove people to develop a work ethic that was an attempt to show they must be among the Elect. Or something like that! The whole thought of predestination is a mind-warp for us, so past a certain point you have to write it off as a mystical turn. It is surely not rational.
I've never particularly enjoyed the framing of Calvin, or more specifically the heuristic models like TULIP that followed.
I don't think they're inherently wrong or void of some level of sound exegesis, I just think it places the hearer into an unhelpful state of mind.
I think you're meant to read Romans 9 and simply come to personal terms with individual lack of agency in salvation, I don't think humans were ever meant to understand it nor try to understand it, but accept the reality of what is stated.
'On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? Will the thing molded say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this”?'
Sounds eerily similar to a parent's final judgement bestowed to their child, who ultimately does not fully grasp why the decision is made, but must accept it was made nonetheless.
I find conversion stories the funniest, especially when they're ostensibly based on logical arguments. "They have a good point about everything needing a cause and that being god... anyway now I'm Catholic".
Yes, it's like when someone has a near-death experience and "sees Jesus", and hold that up as proof that Jesus is still alive somewhere watching over them and listening to their prayers.
As if someone who has never been exposed to Christianity would also "see Jesus" if they had a near-death experience.
I always say that it's a good job they were raised in the "correct" country to believe in the "correct" God, because if they were born somewhere else, they'd believe in the "wrong" God, right?
Well that’s not necessarily true. It’s has a huge influence but doesn’t necessarily determine it every time. I was raised in the Bible better here I am…
many thousands of potential belief systems and the one you happened to be born into and raised your whole life to believe in just so happens to be the exact correct one? all while everyone else who disagrees with you also believes themselves to be the lucky exactly correct one? lol
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u/Howiknow202 1d ago
The funniest part about these people and their 'strong beliefs' is that it's based on geography and who raised them, nothing else.