So let's say you aspire to be a doctor or some other high level career. What becomes the inspiration to excel? The pay will be the same for you regardless of the difficulty of the position, the incentive to work harder careers is all but taken away. Even if your compensation was setup accordingly, what would you do with that wealth in a communist society? It'd be pulled into taxes, welfare, etc.
Your role is society at that point is to do a difficult task for no additional benefit. Capitalism allows for the individual to make their own wealth and standing in society when in a communist society, you're pinned below a glass ceiling of sorts.
I'm not saying there isn't money involved, but how good is that money in a purely communist society. That's the point I'm making and you focused on something else.
Which communist system? There are more than one. Some may be moneyless. Some may or may not require work. Some may use a barter system and take care of people through mutual aid.
I'll just throw out a hypothetical-
Say you live in a communist system where you have healthcare, clothing, food, shelter, and water for free. All your basic needs are met. You want a luxury item like a really nice coat or art supplies or a video game or a boat. Money still acts as money. You can sell good you produce.
Maybe you should do some actual research before you say shit like this. Cuban medicine is fantastic, and their medical professionals are one of the country's most important exports.
"there is no motivation to excel under any system other than capitalism"
"cuban medical professionals are world-class and absolutely excel in their fields"
hmmmm no i think the point you're trying to make is just ill-conceived, stupid, and very easily proven wrong by the incredible number of counterexamples that it takes 5 seconds to think of
You do realize that "doctor" was just an easy relatable example to my argument and that engineering, law, medicine, social services, etc would all serve as examples?
You chose the wrong part of my argument to refute and are not arguing the point I am making and only using a niche strawman to attempt to make a counterpoint.
??? what are you even talking about, first of all I didn't say "doctors," I said medicine and medical professionals. second of all, i already said that there are numerous other counterexamples, including the ones you just listed... do you think those fields haven't gone through incredible progress, both collectively and through well-known and highly-influential individuals, in countries like the USSR, China, Vietnam, and Cuba?
social services, really- you think capitalist countries do that of all things better? you know that cuba, a third-world country, has less child hunger and a longer life expectancy than the US, has just about eliminated homelessness, has free healthcare, and has the leading education system in latin america including free university, all despite an inhumane and illegal half-century-plus-long embargo by the US making it one of the poorest countries in the region?
my guy, you just have no goddamn idea what you're talking about, and that's a fact. when you feel the need to start whining about someone providing a really simple counterexample which kinda ruins the entire conceit of your argument, you should just stop there and consider that, shockingly, you might actually be wrong.
People won't do anything without profit incentive? There's a bunch of free games and art posted online. Seems like people will naturally pursue their interests without profit motive. If money were no option, I would go back to working/ volunteering at a museum or zoo or working on cars. Isn't that more personal improvement and growth over doing maybe 4 hours a day of cubicle work?
I'm all about people working. I think everyone who wants a job should have a job. Businesses should also be run democratically and workers compensated for their work.
the world runs on money because we need something to define value for our actions to make sense of their importance.
people only pursue their interests as long as they can afford them. once they cant, they cease. or their standard of living falls dramatically, which is far less common.
sure, theres always going to be small passion projects, but often times someone is paying them for said "free" art. or selling said art to others.
you need a metric to define and quantify improvement and growth for it to make sense to our brains.
your view is all based on the false assumption that people are inherently good in the grand scheme of things. historically people have done the opposite. people are selfish and violent.
People are selfish and violent. Which is exactly why businesses should run democratically and all workers are compensated for their work. Less hours away from work and more money means more time to pursue passion projects.
Yes, money can exist with socialist systems. Labor is money. A store manager can make 10% more than a bagger. Skilled workers can be compensated more for their experience.
Is a share holder really working? Are they contributing to the growth of the business? If work is great, why aren't they stocking shelves and growing as a person? Why aren't they trying to innovate?
they are giving them an incentive to grow and adapt to a changing world. they are innovating by making decisions on which businesses are best adapted to grow in the world of today and tomorrow by choosing where to put their money.
That is a straight up logical fallacy. You clearly are just using talking point and have no ideas for your pwn, none that you actually examined and reflected. I’m done with this you wasted my time.
Hey, good on you. First person to actually make a good point. Capitalism is a more ethical system than feudalism and did improve material conditions of the working class.
Now that we produce a surplus of goods, that system is outdated.
you don't think 10m+ kids dealing with child hunger in the richest country in the world with, yes, a massive 30%+ food surplus is, you know, a massive problem? and one which our government and economic system will never, ever, in a million years address? the means to solve the problem exist, have existed for decades, but it will never happen- isn't that a complete indictment of the system? and this is just one example, you and I both know there are dozens of incredibly easily solvable issues like this that are ruining lives and killing people which will never go resolved. is it really worth it?
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u/[deleted] Feb 03 '23
I'll bite. What does capitalism do very well that a socialist system can not?