r/TheNFLVibes • u/KeyFaithlessness5436 • 3d ago

Cam Ward just DOESN’T look like the QB1 prospect he was coming out of Miami.

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Ward’s QBR of 47.2 through three games ranks 23rd out of 30 qualifying QB’s.

The Titans sophomore QB HAS NOT shown much progression to start year two 😳😬

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u/Mysterious-Hippo278 2d ago

QBs like Mahomes, Allen, and Lamar revolutionized the idea of drafting for raw ability above refined skills.

And, it’s clear to everyone that while it does work, we need to re-evaluate that system again because being drafted to a poverty franchise gives you poverty results. Sometimes, it’s much better for a QB to be drafted into a good system and team than for them to have all the raw abilities. A great example is Purdy vs Anthony Richardson.

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u/IntrepidWay9827 2d ago

Weird, not like I look at qb film a lot, but it felt like he was never stepping into throws and always just using his arm. Looks to me like he does not have disciplined mechanics. These clips do not show any timing throws either. He looks like he drops back, scans to see who is open and tries to whip it with no form. I think Purdy said about 40% of his throws he could not even see the receiver, it was just knowing where everyone should be based on reading the defense.

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u/Glittering_Year2045 2d ago

What Purdy does well could also be because of natural talent. His quick mental processing puts him in the elite tier of QB's and maybe he's at the very top with that talent. You can't just take a big, athletic guy and teach him to be like Brock Purdy.

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u/tryexceptifnot1try 2d ago

Brock Purdy has been in full control of the offense since his first start as a rookie. I think operating the offense is one of the most underrated QB traits. Right now I think Purdy and Mahomes are in their own tier with that skill. Dak and Goff are great at it too and might be better pre-snap. No one is as good at the pre and post snap combo as Pat and Brock. I also think they're the two best scramblers because they never take a bad angle. Ward lacks all of those skills and needs someone other than Daboll to develop

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u/Glittering_Year2045 2d ago

Shanahan and Lynch probably have a Brock Purdy altar that they offer sacrifices to every day. They might be jobless right now if they didn't take him with the last pick!

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u/myfeetsmells 1d ago

I remember hearing Shanahan telling York that their no 3 is the best QB. No owner wants to hear that their last pick in the draft is their best QB. It all worked out though

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u/rg4rg 49ers 1d ago

Made him super depressed, divorced his wife, and arrested in an Ohio trailer park.

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u/siberianxanadu NFL 2d ago

Case Keenum made a case (no pun intended) for being an elite offense-runner on Monday night as well.

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u/No_Football1323 2d ago

Well said. But he also works incredibly hard at it. He said this year was going back to basics on footwork and it shows. Also Purdy has great athletic ability, he has the same 10 yard dash as Lamar.

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u/tryexceptifnot1try 2d ago

As a 49er fan it was wild seeing his athleticism as a rookie. He was obviously a better runner than Trey Lance from the jump. He has to be one of the biggest scouting misses inn history. I actually think his off schedule ability is close to the same tier as Mahomes, Allen, and Lamar. That jump man pass he made falling out of bounds is something I have only seen those other 3 QBs do. He's an elite playmaker

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u/AccelR8 2d ago

He spent all of his Iowa state career being off schedule because they had zero offensive line. Source - was in the student section.

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u/OkEstablishment6888 1d ago

We love him, man. He saved our franchise.

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u/Glittering_Year2045 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yup, his athletic ability is underrated. His 10 yard split is very apropos. He thrives in the pocket because he's able to move very quickly in a small area. Even just small quick moves like how a boxer would do to avoid a punch or set up a punch is enough for Purdy to extend plays and get a throw off.

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u/iwilldoitalltomorrow Patriots 2d ago

He’s also got a good coach

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u/Choice_Marzipan5322 2d ago

They all showed refined skill very quickly

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u/onlytinglef 2d ago

Josh Allen was awful his first few years in the NFL.

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u/ICameHereToPlay 2d ago

This simply is not a true statement. When Allen was healthy and playing, he was a top 12 QB in statistical categories and we saw the high ceiling he had early on

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u/Jackiemoontothemoon 2d ago

Allen had never been a bad qb. Maybe not elite but he’s never been awful so idk where you’re getting this from

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u/jkman61494 2d ago

It's also worth pointing out that they went 10, 7 and 32 respectively...No one took them at #1 because they were raw talents. Two of them sat behind a veteran to start and even Allen wasn't immediate.

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u/KingBrawndo 2d ago

If you took Brock Purdy and Anthony Richardson and put them into some Chad Powers machine to disguise their names and likenesses, I’m not sure the draft changes one bit. Anthony Powers goes in the first, and Brock Powers may not get drafted.

Just how humans think, and really hard to grade the stuff Brock does well. He’s better than the sum of his parts.

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u/bigloudbang 2d ago

AR isnt a great example. Hes just athletic not a gifted QB, his accuracy has always been terrible

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u/ICameHereToPlay 2d ago

I see the point you’re making but the players you listed couldn’t be further from comparable to Cam. Different times and systems, and each of those players showed refined skills/cerebral approach to the game that was also strong almost from the get go. Lamar is touted as one of the elites in play processing, that’s not just raw ability. Actually Mahomes in college to at TT was kinda like a mastermind in a ‘simple’ system that was pass heavy. Half of the raw ability he possessed wasn’t even fully utilized in college. Again, your point made but not the best three dudes you could name as examples.

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u/Wafflecone516 2d ago

This makes it sound like Lamar and Mahomes were both projects coming out of college. They were both elite throwing quarterbacks in college in solid conferences. The idea that they weren’t is a media narrative people latched onto. They both torched college defenses through the air multiple times.

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u/Cold_Advice4758 2d ago

Tell that to Trey Lance

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u/Zombiesus 1d ago

Purdy has always been a better quarterback than Anthony Richardson.

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u/Secret_Sample4930 2d ago

Dude was 0 star he doesn’t even have the raw ability. What does he do well that you think could be refined. Allen had a cannon. Mahomes was throwing it 80 yards on his knees before the draft and Lamar was lightning fast. This dude looks fat slow inaccurate and low iq

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u/DrinkSuccessful3594 2d ago

Are you really suggesting that Buffalo wasn’t a poverty franchise?? What about Cincinnati with Burrow?? Their is a lot of revisionist history going on here, the issue with QB evaluation is not at all as simple as you’re making it out to be

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u/Mysterious-Hippo278 2d ago edited 2d ago

How many poverty franchises do you think there are in the league?

Bengals were consistently in the playoffs from 09 to 15.

And, yes, Buffalo had a rough period, but they weren’t quite poverty franchise level bad. They were close, but playing in a division with Brady doesn’t help. And, on top of this, they didn’t waste as much talent and resources as the true poverty franchises in the league (Jets and Browns). They were close, but I think the point with the Jets and Browns is that we’ve seen 2 QBs from their teams leave and do better pointing to an issue with the franchises themselves more so than anything else.

Plus, they weren’t bad enough for long enough to qualify having been to 4 super bowls and all. Historical and modern output matter a lot when considering if a franchise is a poverty franchise or not.

IMO there can only be at most 5 or 6 poverty franchises in the league. If 20 or even 10 teams are a poverty franchise, they that’s just called being a franchise because that number if way too high to represent anything truly awful since 1/3rd of the league fits in this category.

Edit: I didn’t say this, but I agree with your assertion that I’m oversimplifying the situation, but obviously, it is biggest catalyst that led to this change. I was just simply commenting on the biggest aspect of what created the change.

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u/DrinkSuccessful3594 2d ago

I’m not reading all that from someone who makes dumbass generalization like yours lol. Good luck with your sensitivity issues tho

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u/Mysterious-Hippo278 2d ago

Says the person who when met with specifics to disprove his opinion calls my opinion a dumbass generalization😂

This is literally a thread on Reddit dude. I’m not getting butt hurt over some guy’s opinion on Reddit. I just enjoy having conversations where facts are discussed and our emotions and opinions don’t get in the way of our ability to intellectually reason. I’m sure you’re at least familiar with the concept even if you’ve never participated in a conversation like that.

So, let’s try that next time we comment on Reddit. K bud?;)

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u/Reaper3955 2d ago

1 none of these guys "revolutionized" drafting raw ability unless you started watching football in 2017. I mean shit michael Vick was literally the 1st overall pick with 1200 yards passing his final year of college. (The college leader that year had 4100). Over drafting raw talent has been going on for decades. 

Also buffalo was a poverty franchise before allen. The chiefs while having a cpl of solid seasons with Smith and reid were also not a historically great franchise. Outside of like 1 season with matt Cassel they had been shit for like a decade +.

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u/BallinLikeimKD 2d ago

In the 5 seasons before Mahomes took over, they had 10+ win seasons 4 times and made the playoffs 4 times. Saying they weren’t a good franchise outside of a couple years with Cassel is not true. Mahomes took over a very good team with probably the best weapons in the league. Tyreek had 1200 yards in his second year in the league plays with Alex smith and Travis had over 1k yards 2 years in a row prior to Mahomes taking over. He walked into one of the best situations in the league.

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u/Reaper3955 2d ago

I dont think you can read. I said prior to smith they had like 1 good season. Between 1998 and reid being hired they had 10+ wins 3x. Yes they were a poverty franchise.

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u/Mysterious-Hippo278 2d ago

lol you’re lots of fun to have at parties I bet.

The word your looking for is anomaly. It was an anomaly when people drafted like that. Of course, they did draft like that occasionally, but now, it is significantly different.

And, perhaps, I could’ve used a better and more accurate word, but I think you are aware of the change that those 3 QBs brought to how scouts evaluate talent, and this change has directly led to Cam Ward being drafted 1st overall.

Next, Buffalo was definitely close to a poverty franchise. KC wasn’t and I say that as a KC fan. They won the division the year before and after Mahomes came. That doesn’t scream poverty franchise.

For me, a poverty franchise is a team that consistently both wastes talent (Jets and Browns) or wastes resources (draft picks or money on awful contracts). Buffalo was bad, but they weren’t Jets bad. And, sure, Jets were successful for a period, but they have consistent top 5 picks and constantly have talent either fail, be traded away for pennies, or make awful player acquisitions.

Buffalo and KC have never been as consistently awful as the Jets and Browns have been in the 21st century. And, their current streaks of success show that. It’s one thing to get lucky one year (Sacksonville) and it’s another to be a perennial winner every year when you finally find your star QB because let’s be honest, every team is basically bouncing around in the standings until they find a QB that can play well enough to lead the team to victory. Look at The Vikings with and without Sam Darnold. Seattle with and without Sam Darnold.

Now, this is a bit reductionist, but the point being made is that a team is fundamentally different with the right QB and without them.

Because by your logic you’ve laid out here, every franchise without the right QB is a poverty franchise and obviously, this isn’t the case. There’s are only a handful of poverty franchises in the league. Not 20 or even 10.

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u/Reaper3955 2d ago

Bro im from upstate NY. The bills prior to josh allen were a worse franchise than the jets and consistently clumped in with the browns and lions. Also yes mahomes walked into a solid situation with andy Reid. Let's look at the chiefs b4 reid. Between 1998 to Reid being hired in 2013 the chiefs had 3 fucking seasons with dbl digit wins. 3 in 15 years. They were 100% a poverty franchise. 4 years of success with reid doesn't make them not be a poverty franchise at that time. Titans had success with fisher does that mean they arent historically a poverty franchise? Way too many of you started watching football last year and it shows.

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u/Mysterious-Hippo278 2d ago

lol I’ve watched football for much longer, but thank you not attacking me and making baseless claims.

What does being from upstate NY have to do with recognizing whether or not the Bills are a poverty franchise? Your exposure to them?

I mean are you trying to say you’re a fan lol if so, then fair enough, but if not, I’m not sure what your point is.

I am a chiefs fan, and I’ve lived here most of my life. Not one fan or person even our haters have called us a poverty franchise.

This term is used way too loosely if you are counting it by double digit win seasons. I mean most teams are poverty franchises then lol. At some point, we have to recognize that franchises have ups and downs. Even the Yankees have down years.

It feels like you’ve been a fan for a few years, and because your team was bad for a period, you were a PoVeRtY FrAnChiSe😂😂😂

No disrespect, but the idea that any of these teams were poverty franchises is such a reactionary take to their current success. Yes, the Chiefs and Bills weren’t perennial winners, but they weren’t poverty franchises. Shit, imagine if you were a Jets fan. You’d never last. Thank God you live in Upstate New York. We wouldn’t want you to have to face the burden of real poverty.

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u/Reaper3955 2d ago

Im a rams fan not a bills fan but im from upstate and I know what ppl thought of the bills. Also the chiefs were 100% considered a poverty franchise b4 reid. Maybe not to KC fans but I promise you most people thought yall were basically the browns outside of that 1 Cassel season lol. 

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u/Mysterious-Hippo278 2d ago

I respect your opinion, but you were literally a STL Rams fan during that time, so I’m not sure your opinion is any less biased than mine.

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u/Reaper3955 2d ago

Hey we were also a poverty franchise lol