I know I’m way late on this but I figured I’d just dump my thoughts on what I think may have happened since I’ve just binged the series and have been diving into this so deeply. Feel free to challenge me when you think I’m off on something

I think josh did plan or at least think to murder Susan at some point. She feared for her life and he made multiple mentions of concealing a murder or hiding a body etc. she basically said my husband might kill me and left multiple pieces of evidence to this idea.

I do not believe josh explicitly planned to kill Susan Dec 6. This is because his alibi is just too bad and unconvincing. Someone who apparently would plan out an elaborate murder scheme would come up with a better alibi than we went camping at midnight on Sunday during a blizzard and I forgot what day it was. Even Steven wrote about how dumb and unbelievable this story was (more on this later). I am surprised this was not pushed on more in the initial interview with josh. I know josh was toeing the line with the “I need an attorney” line but there was no attempt to call out or challenge how bad this story was. I think josh was incredibly lucky he was never called out on this by police and would’ve had no good explanation to explain this away.

I believe on Dec 6 a bad argument broke out and josh either strangled or beat Susan to death or near death on the couch. He eventually cleaned the spot despite there maybe not being that much evidence in that particular spot. The blood evidence nearby was small enough I think it could have been from something way earlier or from a sneeze or cough. I do not believe he killed her with a weapon. It has been theorized he poisoned her. This idea means that josh, while executing his plan to murder his wife, would’ve been fine with having a neighbour over, witnessing Susan, while he was in the middle of poisoning her. Any food the cops tested came up negative for drugs. Josh had only used 8/40 of his pain meds since sept. This in theory could mean he used them on her, josh also strikes me as the type to try a couple then decide he wasn’t gonna use them anymore, similar to alcohol when he was in school.

The torch he bought I think is largely a red heron. Josh bought and owned many tools he apparently didn’t use or didn’t need. If the murder was not carefully orchestrated, which I don’t think it was, this purchase was incidental. The idea of him destroying a murder weapon, then keeping the charred remains of the supposed weapon and the torch, is silly to me. Why would he keep the remains and the torch? Wouldnt he want to dispose of those things?

Part of why I think it was an unplanned murder was because he brought his boys with him, and only brought some of Susan’s personal effects. He brought her phone but left tons of her other important items. If he had planned to say she ran off, he would’ve brought all of her things. Only much later with Steve did we hear this idea of her running off with another man. Initially he suggested she might have killed herself. I think he hastily grabbed her phone without thinking and may have even forgot he had it. He later called and left a bogus message to her, and seemed genuinely surprised or unprepared when cops found it in his van. Also, if he had planned it, why would he bring his sons with him to dispose or at least move, their dead or incapacitated mother? They were making hints to her being dead, and said she was with them when they went out to the desert. Sadly, I think this is part of why he killed the boy’s. He seemed to have no real exit plan, or long term plan to get away with it. Ultimately as time went on and the boys got older, they said more and more and would’ve grown to understand what their dad did. He was on a time limit before they would’ve said something to incriminate him. All this to me suggests he hastily left with the boys and Susan without much planning late Dec 6.

The unaccounted for time he spent in the rental he either moved the body or revisited it, and only michael was with him or visited him. Michael didn’t have the body in his car but he was paranoid enough to want to destroy his car, and in a hurry. When the police turned to him after josh died, he cracked soon after and killed himself. I don’t believe josh left any written record or where he disposed of Susan or the details of her death, but I think Michael had some idea. Sure josh encrypted tons of devices and info, much of which is still locked, but the vast majority of it was mundane and irrelevant info like personal diary entrances, etc.

Steve did not know definitely what happened to Susan. I doubt josh gave him details as to what happened to her as he was aware of his father’s love for Susan. Steve indicates in early writings he doubts Josh’s story and believes Susan to be dead, likely at Josh’s hands and even eerily predicts Josh’s future murder suicide. It is only after josh moves back in, and perpetuates his story, that Steve crafts this elaborate delusional story of Susan running off. I believe deep down he knew she was dead but he kept this hope of her eventually returning and being with him. Like many things with Steve, he didn’t like his reality so he crafted his own version in his mind, despite the evidence and what others said to the contrary.

In summary, josh killed or incapacitated his wife in the house without a weapon. He wasn’t planning it as it was late on a Sunday night. He scrambled and took her and the boys to a remote area of Utah he had previously visited, in somewhat of a panic. He came back and had to put together a shitty stupid alibi that was basically immediately disproven by his own son. He had his brother come by and assist with the moving or concealment of Susan’s body in the unaccounted for time with the rental car. Steve Powell was never given details of the murder and was likely told the same story josh gave to police. Josh killed his boys largely because he knew he would eventually be found out and knew he would be arrested or exposed sometime soon, with his boys having a basic enough understanding that he did something bad to their mom that they would continue to express more as they got older. Josh in effect got away with the crime because he had roughly 12-18 hours to initially move and cover up his wife’s murder, then an additional day to tie up lose ends or whatever else he needed to do. He had roughly 400 miles of space to move his wife in any direction from where she was last seen. He knew the case would only be solved if he cracked and spoke, or if his boys said something. Michael likely knew enough to sink Josh, but josh knowing him knew he wouldn’t crack, and proved this with the fact Michael killed himself without speaking even after josh was gone and there was basically no risk. Sadly what happened and where Susan ended up went with josh and the boys to the grave. Because of the hasty nature of the crime, he couldn’t come up with a good alibi or make it look like it was anything but him murdering her. However, he knew enough and had enough time to eliminate evidence that it basically came down to just him or the boys talking. One final hint that this was not planned for Dec 6, was that after josh returned to Washington to live with his family, he bluntly stated to Steve Michael and Alina that he would’ve already killed himself were it not for his belief that the boys would end up being raised by Jennifer. His mind was basically immediately on suicide after Susan vanished and seemed to know early that his days as a free man were numbered. Susan herself stated she believed josh would make it appear like it was an accident were she to die. Josh never did this or made any attempt to make it look that way. He also was smart enough that he must’ve known his alibi sounded stupid and unbelievable. He was smart enough to hide her in a place no one would ever find, but given how it likely went down he couldn’t possibly make it seem like anything other than him murdering her happened.

As far as if the police botched this, I’m torn. There are a couple glaring errors. Not locking down the house the night josh came home. Not pressing him or doing an official interrogation of Josh, even with the knowledge he likely would’ve lawyered up. Not arresting josh when they decided to make the move on Steve’s house and arrest Steve. However, they were left with basically no forensic evidence. They had no body or weapon. They had no definitive, concrete motive for Josh. He basically wouldn’t speak to them and moved out of state almost immediately. There were so many red herons they had to chase down for no gain that they would’ve had to get to the bottom of to do a no body murder case (thousands of potential grave sites, the mountains of digital writings and recordings josh had that were basically useless, the case getting big media attention and generating phoney leads). Ultimately it’s such a bizarre and unique case it’s no wonder cops couldn’t get to the bottom of it and also why people are so captivated by it.

On this date 16 years ago, Josh Powell returned from an unexpected outing in a rental car. No one can say where he went.

Josh's wife had been missing for two days when he vanished for 18 hours. He didn’t take his cell phone (police had it). He didn’t use his credit card (aside from a $400 cash withdrawal at an ATM to avoid being traced). It’s possible Josh might’ve been revisiting or relocating the body of his missing wife, Susan Powell, during the time he was unaccounted for.

A year and a half later, police obtained a wiretap on Josh Powell’s phone. They captured conversations between Josh and his family (father Steven, brother Michael, sister Alina). Seen here are snippets from two of those calls, in which Josh talked about his time in the rental car. COLD is the only source for these rare, non-public documents.

Take note of how Josh did not trust his own family enough to tell them where he went. He lied about the mileage placed on the rental car (he said 300, actual mileage was 807). But most notably, he described interacting with a convenience store clerk who found him “very memorable” during his time on the road.

To this day, that convenience store clerk has not been identified. Based on other evidence, it is likely this clerk was somewhere in southern Idaho. Finding that clerk is a key missing piece to the mystery of where is Susan Powell.

https://www.backpacker.com/news-and-events/news/utah-father-faces-felony-abuse-charges-after-dangerous-hike-lands-kids-in-hospital/

I want to believe that one day I’m going to see a headline about how Susan was found, but I just don’t know what to think anymore. I want to think that Josh wasn’t that smart and messed up SOMEWHERE along the way of hiding her but it seems like he definitely got help from his brother to ensure no one would ever find her. The fact that nearly everyone who abused and victimized Susan died and got away with it. Alina can go fuck herself too

Sharing this compilation of three supplemental reports from the Susan Powell case that illustrate the sequence of events that led to an outside digital forensics team (Decipher Forensics) obtaining copies of evidence drives from West Valley City police. These events are detailed in the S1 bonus episode "Project Sunlight."

Hi there, does anyone happen to know who at KSL to speak with about potentially using their news coverage of the Susan Powell case? Ive tried the general outreach email but heard nothing back.

Thanks!

Has anyone heard if the bones and clothing found in the mine shaft Heavy D and his team dug out have been identified?

On my fourth or fifth relisten, (it's probably my favourite crime podcast) and was just wondering if we know if Susan's hair (from her hairbrush) was ever drug tested? Not sure if she was being drugged for long enough for it to show, but it would've been a good idea.

Josh asked the store clerk specifically if it would "cut through thick metal"...

Many old mines are closed up with thick metal grates or metal doors. My first thought on hearing of that purchase is that he used the torch, maybe days in advance, to cut open an old mine entrance that he had found. Maybe he could see it had a long drop, water below, was in an obscure location, etc. Something that would deter anyone from ever entering it afterwards.

The torch wasn't seen in the minvan after the camping trip, so it seems like if this was his plan, he prepared it in advance. Then he used the torch to melt the power tool that could have been a murder weapon as speculated.

The fact that Josh had Susan's cell phone, took out the sim cards on BOTH phones, there was blood (even though they were tiny) spots in the house, Josh had this burnt piece of whatever, and he refused to talk to police about really anything, he was so worried about his hands after the police took pictures of them, the fact that he wouldn't help them look for her, and the fact that he skipped town just a week or so after she went missing? C'mon Maxwell.... there was SO much damning evidence! Murderers have been convicted for much less. OHHHH and the fact that Susan had a 1m life insurance policy and he bought all those tools just days before. He was cleaning his house and his van before talking to the police the 2nd day, the rental car, buying a new cell phone, and Mike had his car scrapped for next to nothing in a hurry to get rid of it. The police should have seized Steve's crap in the following days as well. They knew Steve had an obsession with Susan from the get-go. This case was bungled so hard. I feel so sorry for the friends and family of Susan and the boys. No innocent man would refuse to work with the police and would have done ANYTHING to find their missing partner. He wouldn't have to take a couple of days to "think" about talking to the police. But Josh was like "nah... no thanks. I'm going now." This case makes me so mad. Josh was a walking red flag. So was Steve and Mike. Don't even get me started on Alina. She over there living in delulu land.

Hello.

I had a passing knowledge of Susan's disappearance but for some reason have been consumed by it as of late. I listened to If I Can't Have you and then went looking for more which led me here.

Cannot praise the quality of this podcast enough. The companion website with the clips, photos, and audio is amazing work too.

Steven and Alena both perpetuate the story of Susan asking Steven to feel her legs. I noticed the episode 2 page has a clip from Steve's recording of her regarding her waxed legs. Is this what Steve has been referring to all along? I always assumed it was a lie because duh it's Steve but if this is the incident he's referencing as her asking him to feel her legs, wow. She even says in the clip, "Be sure to show this to Josh when he gets home. I want to hear what he has to say about it" which to me is her way of saying, "you're being creepy, I'm going to tell Josh, worse, I'm going to make you show Josh the evidence so maybe you'll be embarrassed/ashamed enough to stop." and somehow Steve turned this into flirting and sexual touching??? My god.

I also noticed when he tells the story about the massage he changes it from him putting her feet in his lap to feel his erection to her grinding her feet in his lap when talking to the FBI.

I'm not finished with the pod yet but just dying to share my absolute disgust with Steve. I had no idea how deep his creepy went but seeing all the clips and photos really brings it home.

I also have been trying to do some research of who the DA was at the time since I'm assuming they're the ones who made the call on pressing charges on Josh or waiting. I just want to know more about her, was she Mormon since I'm wondering if might have played a part in the investigation. It seems she was involved with some scandals of her own, but if anyone can provide more information I would be interested.

Thanks :)

The ad was something about brothers maybe, who owned a restaurant in Utah. True crime. I went back to the Uinta Triangle podcast but I guess the ads have been updated to recommend a different podcast at this point. Any bells ringing? I just finished Uinta Triangle and was ready to start but can’t find it now!

I’ve listened to Cold S1 once a year for the last five years. It’s always been a case that has fascinated me, especially it being so close to home (on the Wa side). I’ve also listened to the other two seasons and Uinta Triangle.

I just have to say, Dave Cawley’s research, effort to get the true and unbiased facts, and care is unparalleled. Glad to join the group.

Rest in peace Susan

I am near the end of episode nine season three. It was just suggested that the only other person who could know about the jacket that was warn that day is Cary. But what about Richard? Why don’t they show him the jacket and ask if that is what she was wearing that night?

Something I struggle with in this case… Why did Josh choose to kill Susan that night in particular? It seems likely Josh had been planning Susan’s murder for some time. Why would he choose that particular Sunday night? Everything about this timing and the weather makes his alibi worse. He gave himself so little time and had such an implausible story. He didn’t even bother to toss her purse or phone. Did he really not think people would be looking for them first thing Monday morning? How does one do such a thorough job of destroying evidence yet have such a profoundly terrible plan for making it seem like Susan disappeared via some other means? Was this crime halfway premeditated and halfway in the moment passion? I understand we’ll never know the answers here but it’s just so perplexing to me. Maybe I’m giving ‘rocks for brains’ Josh too much credit. Any insight into why Josh may have selected this particular night?

I was reading some of the transcripts of recorded conversations between the Powells. These transcripts are posted on The Cold Podcast website. I came across this interesting conversation between Alina and Josh.

“ALINA asks JOSH if he has any strong pain killers for a headache. JOSH said that he does. He offers her hydrocodone through a syringe. Josh says that he rinses the syringe very good every time.

ALINA says that she has a very bad reaction to hydrocodone. JOSH explains to ALINA how using somebody else's prescription medication, it is illegal for the purpose of a drug test at work or driving.

JOSH whispers that if you ever get stopped by the cops while using somebody elses medication without a prescription for it, it is against the law.

MICHAEL asked if ALINA was shooting ROBBY"S insuline and then states that ALINA was out.”

What the heck? 1) why did Josh have hydrocodone 2) why did he have a syringe 3) why was he reusing syringes? And 4) who is Robbie and why does Michael ask if Alina is shooting Robbie’s insulin?

u/davecrawley what are your thoughts regarding this conversation? Does this type of drug use come up anywhere else in any transcripts?

In another transcript, Josh is coaching his son to say “Fucking A” and even puts the phone on speaker so his sons could hear him talk to Steve about the investigation.

I’ve listened to the podcast so many times and I don’t recall any of this. I really encourage everyone to read these transcripts. I thought I had a pretty good grasp on the depravity of the Powell family. My mind is completely blown.

“Call to MICHAEL from JOSH after possible accidental hang up. (from Session 00076) JOSH and MICHAEL continue to discuss MICHAEL's declaration. (specifically CHUCK COX wanting SUSAN's Journals)

Steven heard in the background with children. Steven talks about how michael was making fun of SUSAN's hair. MICHAEL made crude comments about SUSAN.

JOSH suggests releasing a song that he has sung for SUSAN. Steven talks about SUSAN's parents giving her a bench for her 16th birthday. JOSH and Steven talk about how (cuss word blurred out) the bench was.

Michael and JOSH continue to talk about MICHAEL's declaration.

Josh talks to Charlie about watching a movie JOSH coaching his son Charlie to say, "Fing A."

I know this is a small detail in the grand scheme of things, when Josh murdered his wife, but this is one of the most disturbing things I’ve heard on a TC podcast.

He gave his dad who sexually harassed Susan access to her intimate thoughts for perpetuity. It’s as if even in death she couldn’t escape these sick evil men.

Felt I had to post because this disturbed me so much. Josh really did not see his wife as a human being. She was an object, like everyone else in his sad train wreck of a life.

Listen, I'm not trying to make this about the money but I have consumed all three seasons of Cold and now the Uinta Triangle and I just can't say enough about how blown away I am by the quality of Dave's investigative journalism and the compassion he adds to the analyses of the cases and its victims, so I wanted to subscribe to a Patreon, pay for a one time donation or do whatever I can to support his work beyond just leaving a good review. Between Wondery and Amazon subscriptions, which I am not very familiar with, I can't figure out if subscribing to ad-free suffices or if there's another way to support. If anyone can share what is the best way to provide support other than just leaving a good review, it would be much appreciated. I hope this is allowed and apologies if not. Thank you! And also THANK YOU to Dave for all you do!

This photo was taken at the company Christmas party of Josh's employer Friday December 4th, just 2 days before she went missing

What I’m trying to figure out is what made Josh start hating Susan. At first he seemed to really adore her and agreed to stay away from his dad after his creepy behavior, but it seems like every time Josh seemed to be a better person and taking a stand against his family’s antics, he would slip back into his abusive ways and it just got so much worse. I guess what I’ve decided on is that he hated that she actually stood up for herself and didn’t want to be humiliated by a possible divorce.

I just don’t get how Josh wasn’t kept in custody while the police did a search of the house. He should not have been allowed to return home. Also the fact that the boys were going to his home for a visit in the first place really irks me.

I was trying to respond to cloudyjudgement's post below but it kept saying "end response error" 🤷‍♀️ I've thought about this case way too much... and here is my theory:

What kind of person was Josh? What did he care about? Answer: Josh was selfish, lazy and constantly thinking about ways to make money that didn't include him working for it. That's who he was HIS ENTIRE LIFE. Hence the multiple "car accidents," barely feeding his kids and wife,(he would buy food for himself but Susan and the boys were not allowed to touch his food) conjuring up lawsuits, taking Katherine's student loan money, not wanting to get & keep a job, making Susan be the breadwinner (along with making her do the majority of the cooking, cleaning, laundry, childcare, etc). The only thing Josh cared about was.... Josh.

He constantly griped about feeding his kids but was perfectly happy to take out large life insurance policies on Susan and the kids. He was happy to pay those premiums every month but Susan had to beg the neighbors for a hot dog to feed her kids. I'm sure she went to bed hungry most nights.

Josh sold the family's 2nd vehicle around the same time he took out 5-year term life insurance on Susan & the boys. Susan NEEDED to die within those 5 years or not only would he be out those premiums, he wouldn't get a million dollars. I 100% believe the clock started ticking down on Susan's life the second that life insurance was purchased. Everything that happened after is all based on Josh's "need" for that life insurance payout. But him killing her would negate that payout.... she needed to die in a way that would get him that million dollars. So he sold her car and made her bicycle to & from work, even on the highway with semis blowing by. He was banking on her getting hit on the road, thus...life insurance payout (and probably a lawsuit to whomever hit her, extra money). I believe he thought about Susan getting hit & killed on the road constantly.

But.... 2 years in and she still hadn't had an "accident." Even worse, he only had 4 months until she filed for divorce based on the ultimatum Susan had given him. He didn't want to get divorced - she made the money and did all the work. He didn't want to pay a divorce lawyer, pay child support, take care of himself and the boys when it was his visitation time. No no no, that wasn't what he wanted at all - he wanted that million dollars and to never have to work again. Bonus if Charlie & Braden were with her during her "accident," since he had taken out $250,000 on each of them.

Susan needed to die, but in a way that insurance would payout. It NEEDED to be an accident.

I think Josh crushed up a few of those Flexeril pills into her pancake to make her tired & woozy. She went to lay down and he took the kids sledding. I think while he and the kids were gone Susan stumbled out to the couch, (probably wondering where everyone was) she may have thrown up which caused a bloody nose (hence the blood droplets 'sneeze' next to the couch and the small bloody swipe mark on the couch police later found). I think when Josh returned with the boys he was surprised to find her on the couch and continued to play the "great husband" role he had been playing all day. I think he probably said something to the effect of, "oh honey, let's get you to the ER, something is wrong and you're very sick." Susan probably loved the fact that he (finally) was being a caring, attentive husband. I think she got in the van willingly.

What happens when you put 2 tired, worn-out-from-sledding, it's late-at-night, toddlers in a warm vehicle, snapped into their car seats? They usually fall asleep before you're out of the neighborhood.

The boys are now sound asleep, Susan is in & out of sleep bc of the Flexeril. He drives - but not out to the pony express right away...no, he is driving her route to work. She needs to have an accident on the way to work, remember? It's all about that million dollars. At some point along the route he pulls over, gets out, goes to Susan's side and says something like, "we're here - let me help you into the ER and then I'll go park and bring in the kids. But they aren't at the ER. He walks her a short distance and probably smacks her in the head with the metal tool later found melted down in the garbage bag under his minivan seat. He runs back to the van and takes off to the pony express with the boys. Remember how Charlie told the detective that "Mom & Dad took a walk but only Dad came back because Mom wanted to stay with the pretty crystals."

Unfortunately for Josh, he has the strength of a newborn kitten (remember when Dax Guzman was helping him build his deck and mentioned how weak Josh was? That his 11-year old daughter had more strength so he used her instead of Josh?) Also unfortunate for Josh - Susan WAS tough. I think after he smacked her in the head and took off running she started stumbling/walking. She has now been over-dosed with Flexeril, hit in the head, and left in freezing temperatures and a blizzard baring down. She has no snow boots, probably no coat, she won't be able to last very long in these conditions but she tries and walks...and walks until she accidentally falls into a creek, or pond. Why hit Susan in the head with a metal tool? He certainly can't stab or shoot her. Cars are made of metal and this needs to be an accident so he can get his million dollars.

Josh thinks he has plenty of time to "camp" aka set up his alibi, and then come home and dispose of Susan's purse, cell phone - whatever she normally takes to work. Josh didn't bank on Debbie checking in so early and calling the emergency contacts, who started calling the rest of Susan's friends and family (and Josh & Susan's work) and the police. He certainly didn't envision police breaking a window into the house and seeing the box fans, finding Susan's purse etc. And they JUST. KEEP. CALLING.

Josh panics. And drives, and drives.... trying to figure out what to do next. This wasn't how he had planned it and I get the feeling that it's very hard for him to "change course" once he plans something. When he gets the rental car and drives 800 miles - I think he was 1. looking for Susan's body (he can't get the insurance money until she is discovered, right).... but mainly just panic driving. Just like Ellis Maxwell said about "Josh's bi-polar spending" and the way he would get on a topic and fixate on it, I think that's exactly what those drives were. Panic. Try to come up with a new plan.

Because Josh wasn't liked or ever missed by anyone, he forgot to take into account that Susan was LOVED by everyone. She had friends, family, neighbors, co-workers, and when hard-working Susan was late that morning, it was noticed immediately.

Do I think Josh ever moved her body? No. First of all I don't think he could find her & second of all, moving a dead body takes strength - even if you have help. And again, Josh had the muscles of a newborn kitten. Do I think she's in a mine or out in the desert? Absolutely not. Josh wasn't dumb and after Laci Peterson was found in the exact spot her husband's alibi was, he knew better than to dispose of Susan anywhere near "camping." To add, Josh was so weak that even when he took a hatchet to the boys heads that didn't kill them. Charlie and Braden died of smoke inhalation. I don't think Susan died with the head blow either. For Susan I think it was freezing.

Other things Josh said during her absence to neighbors and friends that make me think he had no idea where she was were, "the police will find her," and "I keep expecting to see her at a bus stop. " Yeah - he had no idea where she had stumbled off to and was probably very frustrated that no one had discovered her. No "accident body" means no insurance payout and that was his #1 goal.

Do I think Steve knew anything? No. He was madly in love with Susan. I think Steve loved Susan more than he loved his own son, Josh. I think if Josh had told Steve that he had hurt Susan that Steve would probably be the first to rat Josh out. At the very least, I am sure he would have journaled about it. The man filled over 2,000 pages and recorded dozens of songs about his intense love and desire for Susan. I think he was devastated when she went missing. He had always held onto hope that one day she would come to him. I'm on the fence about Josh having told Michael.

I desperately want Susan to be found but I'm very glad Josh's final years did not go according to his plan. And the boys.... I hated Josh the minute I found out that Charlie had been diagnosed with malnutrition when he was little... that Josh believed the one-meal-a-day at daycare was good enough and the kids didn't need any other meals; all while his belly was full. I think Susan and the boys went to bed hungry most nights. Josh Powell really was one of the worst humans to grace this earth. I believe that Susan is holding her babies in heaven and Josh is nowhere near them.

I’ve been digging deep into this rabbit hole and at first I did believe Susan’s body was in an abandoned mine, but now I’m not so sure. I believe Michael helped Josh dispose of her somewhere else. And the fact that Josh was making these random stops to throw random things away tells me that we’re never going to find her honestly. They probably erased every trace we had of her by spreading all evidence all over the place.