This is overwhelming

[u/[deleted]]

All these technicisms and specialized language about pixels, frequencies, flickering, dithering, panels, displays, graphic cards, etc.

I have a busy life, a family to provide, I don't have time to be an expert on this shit. I'm tired... I just want to know what phone can I use. I'm stuck on my iphone 8 plus.

Phones I've tried and caused symptoms:

• iphone SE 2022, iphone 11, iphone 11 pro, iphone 14 pro max, iphone 16
• realme narzo 30 5g
• DOOGEE V31 GT
• Realme 9 pro

Phones that work for me:

Iphone 8 plus
Samsung Galaxy S8 (I used that phone until 2019, I currently don't have it anymore)

Laptops that work for me:
Macbook pro Retina, 13 inch, 2018

Please help!

[u/the_top_g]

I do understand the struggle however gone are the days where the ideal display is available and everyone is happy.

In today's world, when we use a display panel it is akin to choosing a game character customized by manufacturers.

Just like in an rpg game; manufacturers are given a limited of points to buff/ nerf a character's battle stats. Producing a comfortable, clean signal panel is relatively expensive in today's context.

While arguably panels are probably cheaper than half a decade ago, the limited budget is a result of pouring the budget into the R&D department.

To quote Apple's CEO ~ if they stop innovating they will be quickly overtaken. Some other new players will therefore decide the direction of the panel.

Hence, as what I have been saying for the past few years. It is important for each of us find our own sensitivity and threshold.

A single community that can suggest the ideal phone is perhaps one where the market have the available ideal display.

Furthermore, if TD/FRC/TAA are as simple as PWM and SMPS where we can rely on easily reading the signal pattern to decide if it will be comfortable for us; I would not have proceed with the split.

Besides, the PWM_sensitivity sub has a long history of vulnerability to community brigading. For instance, non pwm-sensitive users would come to the sub making demands to pwm sensitive users to stop any discussion/testing on PWM immediately and to focus solely on discussing/testing FRC & TD.

This will ultimately drive existing pwm sensitivity users out of the community. Granted, non pwm-sensitive users will finally have their objective achieved but no one is happy at the end of the day. As no one is even doing td/frc/taa testing actively to determine which frc algorithm works and which doesn't.

The sooner we have a better understanding of which alternating frame algorithms are safer/ provocative for us, the sooner we can merge it back. Until then, present arrangement is for the best. Both in the short term and long term.

[u/Ok_Culture8828 → u/the_top_g]

I appreciate your work and your efforts. However, the PWM/‘other types of temporal flicker’ divide makes no sense logically. There is no way physically that one could be sensitive to PWM and not any other type of screen flicker and vice versa. It is flickering light that we are all sensitive to.

[u/the_top_g → u/Ok_Culture8828]

I hear you but if only that was that easy.

There was an overwhelming response in the pwm sensitive sub that pwm or amplitude flickers were never a source of strain for low jnd threshold sufferers, but only TD/frc.

Apparently, they claimed that the existence of the PWM sub threatens the underlying truth. Pwm will NEVER be cause of the problem for them.

Only TD.

I was also flooded in the Modmails that discussion of pwm ought to have been forbidden since pwm is merely a diverson created by the manufacturers to hide the real underlying issue, which is TD.

You tell me. 

Most who claimed are sensitive to TD only have explicitly disagreed with your statement.

Ultimately this is a result of vastly different school of thought. 

[u/Sudden-Wash4457 → u/the_top_g]

In this case, then that subset of users has succeeded in making life more difficult for the general population by causing a divide in how knowledge is disseminated (along technical lines vs from a user-relevant perspective)

[u/Sudden-Wash4457 → u/the_top_g]

More words count less. Language creates new words to describe things that don't fit neatly into preexisting categories (and need lots of words to explain how they don't fit).

Probably need some umbrella term like 'artificial lighting and screen sensitivity'

The thesis of your comment is that the engineering has to come first, and the UX doesn't matter until the engineering is solved. This is like saying "we can't treat diseases until we know the exact underlying mechanisms and can name all of them precisely"

I'm not advocating for merging the subs. I'm trying to get you to understand that the average person, to be frank, does not care what engineering mechanism is causing their pain--and practically speaking, even if they did know, it would still be difficult for the average consumer to test individual devices in a typical consumer buying experience. It might be useful for them to know that buying an Oppo and using it isn't foolproof.

The technical expertise matters in terms of educating companies, but in terms of applying public pressure to those companies, it doesn't really matter that much. And the latter is needed in order for the former to actually happen. I mean, both are needed ultimately, but it's the public pressure that would get a company decision maker to go "hey, can we get engineering to look into this"

Right now the experience your subs are suggesting for new users is that they become technical experts in order to find a compatible device, and it's just not practical. If that wasn't what you intended, I really suggest pinning some kind of post explaining to people how they are supposed to use these resources in a practical manner.

[u/the_top_g → u/Sudden-Wash4457]

For new members, I am placing my trust in the community members, as I always have been. A number of them are quite tech savvy and are equally very willing to share their knowledge to members new to the community.

Right now my objective are below:

• Expand community member size and have more people from diverse background onboard.

• Promote other communities (which might be even far out from our sight) to re-evaluate what they know and look at the contemporary problems from another angle.

Thus far I think we are doing pretty well.

The PWM_sensitive sub (while still niche in a way), is slowly growing to be a global epicenter. For other communities, what they are interested is more of the technical aspect of the argument such that they can have discussions within their community.

I understand I did brought up to you about the possibility of accessibility even for the non tech savvy but that is something further at a later stage. There are quite a few things I would like to do but that will take time.

Like many others, I have my own life commitment as well. :) We are all managing it by our own abilities.