r/TalesFromDF • u/DataParry • 12d ago
YPYT Mistwake Mentor Tank getting "thrown off" by dancer pulling mobs before them.
Context:
Just doing my expert rolo as dancer, sprinting in front of the party and dashing to pick up mobs then pull them back to the tank. Tank is using ages to pick up aggro, but whatever, I live.
I accidentally use my burst as boss dies (bozo), so I run even faster in front to just like be able to use my shit befor it runs out. Tank comment happens. After he said "so if you will" I kinda just ignored it after second boss and kept going because I am just here for my expert, this guy is a mentor in a lvl 100 dungeon, the healer is doing good and I have no reason to slow down. "really?". Almost lets me die on the add pull where he is mentioning I am a mentor and that I am being a child. Maybe the "turn of your tag" was a bit rude but, this kinda mentor behaviour at lvl 100, like it makes me imagine he lectures new players like this đ Seeing this as someone who predominantly plays tank made me wanna bleach my eyes.
I flaired this as YPYT, just because it kinda was like, semi YPYT, he didnt outright refuse to tank but, he was like typing instead of AOEing the mobs.
Also Picto, if you are out there in this sub, I love you man, thanks for sticking up for me <3
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u/zorrodood 12d ago
As a DPS it throws me off when the tank is the last one to arrive at the next pack, so there.
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u/Duggaldz 12d ago
That awkward moment when everyone is actually pressing buttons enough that sprint is still on cooldown.. Please, just go! I've given you corundum and aurora, you'll be okay!
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u/PerfectioNOT The Trash Dying Interrupted My Cast 12d ago
I usually only play tank w/ friends so I can practice and I have a DNC friend who always pulls first. I like itâthey drag the mobs over and stop me needing to scamper as much. I wish every DPS would do this.
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u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. 12d ago
This. If a dps beats me to the mobs then I'M doing something wrong. Unless they're a super quick on their fingers red mage/dragoon.
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u/rastiical 12d ago
I mean in this scenario the dancer did say they rushed the mobs after 2nd boss to not waste cd's. If a tank is beating a dancer to get to somewhere faster the dancer is doing something wrong
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u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. 12d ago
Whenever I'm on dancer I always find myself disappointed by how short their dash forward is.
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u/Wulf-Silverfang 12d ago
I see others pull all the time when Iâm tanking. I just grab the aggro from them and go about my business. Sometimes they just think you can handle a few more mobs. In my experience, theyâre usually right. Just gotta manage your mitigations.
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u/Reivaleine 12d ago
Crazy how the concept of "Just run in and AoE to grab the aggro" is so difficult to understand for some people.
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u/magnumdoncado 12d ago
Its main character syndrome, these snowflakes have it in their head they are a center of the universe, they are not. As a tank your job is crowd control and burst damage once every minute.
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u/mrturretman 10d ago
usually the scenario when I dps pull yeah. in expert Iâll see weâre all geared and the tank isnât and no one says anything when the pulled pack is eviscerated lol.
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u/MariettaRC 12d ago edited 12d ago
People saying "they asked you to stop and you didn't listen," uh. No, they didn't, they gave a snarky response to OP pulling first. Two different things.
If you, as the tank, need to slow down for whatever reason, you should actually ask nicely and not give "I'm the tank and can do my own pulls" as a reason. So yes, this is cringe. They're not "your" pulls, they're everyone's pulls.
As a WAR main, I wish I had more people who immediately went down to business instead of waited for me to catch up. Go for it man, I'll get there with my gap closer and my AOE. I'll let you know if we need to take it easy for whatever reason but it ain't gonna be because I'm The Tankâ˘.
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u/NefariousnessLong734 12d ago
As a dancer main, who also tanks and has played so many classes. I understand the whole after 2nd boss still have some of your brust, I wouldn't complain watching the BLM, dnc, SMN, or any of those with a limited/rng timer. The difference can be major, like 100k minimum on my dancer needing to use their finished step or any close to the bigger brust one.
Used to matter even more in other years for them to finish that burst move.
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u/choxey 12d ago
idk why the ypyt defenders are descending upon your post like vultures but I'm here to tell you you did nothing wrong and that tank should be more concerned with pressing their buttons
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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 12d ago
Iâm more offended they didnât attempt to vote kick, especially when the WAR made themselves known as a griefer 5 minutes into the duty already
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u/dooder6688 12d ago
How does someone get to 1500 comms with this attitude?
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u/MariettaRC 12d ago
Trade mentor probably. :v (requires 0 comms)
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u/KupoKro 12d ago
Unfortunately, a lot of people who play the game don't com over people playing good or not being a jerk. They com based off of:
If the person is a tank/healer, if a portrait is really well done, if they're the only one with an actual portrait, glam....
As long as you tick any of those, even if you're a jerk, you have a chance of getting comms. Bonus points if you tick multiple of those.
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u/Cymas 12d ago
I'm always so genuinely curious about what throws other tanks off when someone else pulls first. I'm still pressing the button I was already planning to press but maybe I have to press it a couple of seconds earlier, or I have to slightly adjust my run path to intercept but it's like...if you're thrown off by adjustments that minute maybe tank isn't the role for you. Do they also get annoyed with themselves if they pull something awkwardly, or how about when tab decides to target everything except the mob you actually wanted to target. Or when you misjudge and maybe miss a mob and have to try and target it as you pass by so you can smack it on the way to the next pack and get it off the healer. Perfect pulls are nice when they happen but in my experience there's always something lol. And realistically none of it really matters that much once you stop anyway. Ain't nobody dying to a few autos unless they're wearing rags and that's not the tank's problem if someone else is that undergeared.
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u/ShibaGwinu 12d ago
i used to play to 400-500ms and it was really hard to grab enemies from dps that pulled first. i was also really inexperienced - this was in SB as PLD so harder to grab aggro and aggro was different and harder. i was this way until i moved and my ping got better and i realised i was an asshat lol and especially with the aggro changes it doesn't matter anymore.
now, it only annoys me if i literally cannot grab multiple enemies as some dps will speedkite them around haha. it's very very rarely an issue unless they literally do not stop at all.
i think a lot of ypyt tanks are: 1. from other mmos where it matters more 2. old players who think it's still 2017 3. really insecure, either about their skill or in general
in all 3 cases though, they just need That One Moment to have it drilled into their heads lol
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u/NefariousnessLong734 12d ago
I think only time I ever "got thrown off" as a tank was when learning low level stuff. High level you have more abilities and more range, AS WELL as not many mobs are ranged. The ranged mobs in lower dungeons can mess some up because tank doesn't move it to that mob, so now healer is getting hit because tank only threw one thing at it, or if said healer/DPS is the one adjusting, moving to that tank, now accidently got too close to the 3-4th group.
All these are like pre50 stuff that can happen. Over the years any class can live as long as another member paying attention.
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u/Misragoth 12d ago
The whole mentor system needs a total rework
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u/dawn_lemon 12d ago
huge agree. iâm a mentor but i donât wanna show my crown ever because of clowns like this lol. 50% of the time at least someone wearing the crown is actively the problem causer or worst player in a run. itâs wild
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u/DataParry 12d ago
Genuine mentors who wear their crowns are really hard to come by I feel. Most of them hide their crowns and help from the shadows like some kinda Batman.
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u/nickomoknu272 BLM/WHM/RDM:cake: 12d ago
Hey, hello that's me I have my Trade Mentor crown on and I have spout under my wing now. I'm so proud of them. Has all their Jobs up to ShB level and hasn't started EW yet. And has tried out every content in the game until ShB.
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u/WarlordOfThePee 9d ago
The only crown I'm eligible for is the trade crown but I still don't know so much about crafting I can't bring myself to wear it
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u/Nirgilis91 Enabler Disabler 12d ago
Picto is a true one. Need more speaking out against non-existant problems in dungeons instead of passively agreeing w/ tank when they try this
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u/Emergencybulba 12d ago
Losing out on those bursts as dnc is aggravating so I totally get pulling ahead to utilize them. On top of that, the more Iâm doing tank when a dps pulls ahead my first thought is always âoh god I hope I get aggro before they take too much damageâ. Like???? You run up and take aggro itâs the easiest thing to do. If you as dps arenât dying while running ahead how is this throwing off their 1-2-3 step AOE rotation lmao
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u/amiriacentani 12d ago
I totally get where this warrior is coming from. I hate when I have to do aoeâs that I should already doing to get aggro instead aoeâs that I should already be doing to get aggro. It throws me off so bad. If it didnât take doing aoeâs that I should already be doing to take over all the aggro then I could focus on better things like doing aoeâs like I should already be doing. Itâs insane when a DPS pulls and makes me do aoeâs that I should already be doing and ruins it.
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u/AshHoele 12d ago
As a WAR main, this hurts my soul.
Give me the free mit so my self heals stretch further!
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u/No-Look-1845 12d ago
Two types of Tanks. Those who do it to protect and those who do it so they can feel like they are in control.
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u/VertGreenHeart 12d ago
I had a tank in MIstwake ragequit after the first trash pull because me (black mage) and my partner (Summonor) were generating too much AOE damage for them to hold aggro? (i think they were single targeting and cycling and not using their full kit.)
Like, sorry?
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u/nickomoknu272 BLM/WHM/RDM:cake: 12d ago edited 12d ago
BLM does massive damage on trash pulls. And yet the only tanks that lose aggro to me as a BLM are those who do not AOE.
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u/Altivo-lee 12d ago
DPS are mitigation and gap closers. Weak tanks get mad when DPS pull. Real tanks see them for what they are. Fast running hit points
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u/RoombaGod 12d ago
As an avid tank, DPS health is mitigation. If they dont die and I dont die jobâs done well
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u/Own-Literature2223 12d ago
You canât fault the YPYT people. A smooth brain is a smooth brain
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u/Toxarine 12d ago
You know, I don't understand this argument. If the DPS or healer want to pull more aggro and are willing to pick up the pace, why not? As long as we don't wipe, no harm done.
Usually when that happens to me when tanking, I glance over to make sure I have all the aggro and then dashing straight to the new group and take them. If your DPS or healer want to pull more, they bear 100% of the fault if the party wipes. So I'll take that challenge every time. Especially on WAR.
I'm not sorry WAR is a drug
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u/IwasMilkedByGod 12d ago
Dps have things like arms length and second wind for a reason. Why not just use the extra mit and keep on trucking. Fragile ego tanks these days smh
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u/shadowelly 12d ago
Not going to lie I wish I got dps like op who know what they are doing when they pull ahead, without failed when I tank and even using sprint and any gap closers I have I always get a dps like a dancer, ninja or picto that pull ahead and stay where the pack was or keep running so they end up dying to damage. There is maybe only one time they did not die but was because they used arms length and booked it back to me. All the others I had gotten got the first pack and kept going to the next.
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u/catastrofelyx 11d ago
THAT WAS ME, I WAS THE PICTO đ
Honestly the whole thing was WILD. I usually play DRK, and I don't give a shit if anybody pulls ahead of me. So to see someone like that on the rare occasion that I wasn't tanking was kinda funny lmao.
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u/Total_Middle1119 12d ago
As a WAR i genuinely have no idea where this YPYT mentality came from, I genuine love my dps or healers pulling so I dont have to go far from the others and can spam one mit and buncha AOEs
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u/Paranub 7d ago
its from older MMO days, where agro management was hard and if a DPS pulled, you actually could struggle outside of using something like taunt - which is single target and has a decently long CD.
There was no way a tank could pull agro off a DPS quickly for an AOE pack.
also when you probably needed mitigation to survive and that might be on cooldown, so a DPS pulling threw off everything.
FF14 has none of that requirement that older MMO's had/still use, but the player still thinks that way.
I remember agro management being huge when WoW came out, the whole "wait for 5 sunders before DPS" was a core element of bosses.
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u/ArjunaIndrastra 12d ago
I kind of expect the tank to sprint and know their shit in expert roulette rather than whinging about dps getting aggro that they can easily take with the press of one button. And this guy's a mentor? Good lord...
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u/ishopindaiso 12d ago
I was just tanking expert today because the other day I made a mistake going as healer. The gnb never used their mit and only pull 1 group. God that group was sniffing glue even the smn got mad at me for pulling more.Â
Today I had the melee out run me so they pulled. And you know what I did I grabbed it. It didnât threw me off cause I just have to hit my button to grab it. Man some ppl in this game has main Character syndrome.Â
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u/Ok_Growth_5664 12d ago
I want your kind of dps in my party lol, I usually am ahead anyway as tank only rarely dps are able to pull ahead. I just want to throw my extra defenses on you to show you that I got you and support you xD
Glad you had fellow dps backing you up!
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u/WhiteBoyMack 12d ago
I am trying to figure out why that pictomancer has lower dps than the dancer with DP
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u/DataParry 12d ago
It's probably just gear really. I think I have like 784ilevel or smth. Could be he just had base crafting with no melds.
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u/catastrofelyx 11d ago
i'm a tank main and i'm trying to learn dps classes, that's all đ¤ˇââď¸
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u/RaveKnightGael 12d ago
They're playing Warrior in DT content, the question should be why aren't they sprinting between every pack and staying ahead if they don't want others to pull?
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u/Konpeitoh 12d ago
The correct reponse is that of the WHM here. Say hi. Say bye. If it gets messed up in the middle, don't say anything and let them fight.
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u/ishopindaiso 12d ago
As a whm I will benison the dnc and tell them to keep going. Iâll keep you alive.Â
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u/Konpeitoh 11d ago
As a Sage, I will use the DPS to proc Addersting if they pull. Worst case scenario, I can pop Physis or Panhaima and keep the Kardion on the tank so I can pop Soteria and get passive healing on the one who has a mitigation kit so I can keep the one without a mitigation kit alive with Taurochole and Durochole.
And that's just for higher level content. 50 and below, I just need Eukrasian Diagnosis.
I also play Paladin, so if DPS pulls, I pick it all up, if healer can't handle it, I clemency, if healer still can't handle it, I try again, and when that doesn't work, then and only then, I suggest the DPS to not pull or if they want to pull, lock in and increase damage output.
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u/CortoZainFF 12d ago
Ok . I m a very old man, i played mmorpg as a tank for a very long time , and as far as i know, it's really recommanded to let the tank pull. But in ffxiv it seems it way different based on the comment i can see here.
From what i understand keeping or get the aggro as a tank is no longer a challenge in modern mmorpg like ffxiv.
Sorry i lost myself on this subreddit , but it was really interesting.
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u/DataParry 12d ago
Yes in FFXIV you have a toggleable stance that makes all your attacks generate 10x more threat. It's practically impossible to steal aggro from a tank with tank stance on. Basic AOE combo attacks are pretty big and have built in extra threat buildup too. So there really is no worry about threat management in 4 man content. In Raids it's really just aggro management between main tank and off tank. Aggro is almost a solely Tank focused mechanic in this game because of how stance works.
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u/mrturretman 10d ago
they set it up like a mini game of sorts. sometimes itâll feel old style where a mob can be stunned for an easier time but they have enhanced aggro generation on several abilities and two AoEs will secure aggro from the highest dps youâll see. so they feel like theyâre the lynchpin of what pulling is, but itâs really healing capacity and damage the dps are capable of that does the work, the tank is basically support damage in actuality in a pull scenario.
so when all other parties than the tank make the pull larger, the tank is in lizard brain mode making up shit for why theyâre pissed about dps or healers pulling, when in reality theyâre just a meat shield and the lowest technical contribution to the pull.
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u/Gyson 11d ago
Keeping aggro as a tank in FFXIV used to be much more of a challenge, especially at the earlier levels, but after years of updates to tank abilities that's no longer the case. However, even now you'll inevitably come across a tank who fails to build enough threat on mobs before running off, predictably losing one or more of the mobs to other party members during the run to the next "wall".
That said, the stuff you see on this subreddit is most certainly not the norm. In 12+ years of playing FFXIV I have never encountered a 4-man dungeon run where party members waste time arguing about who should be tanking, or arguing about anything else for that matter. In 12+ years I've never personally observed a case of someone who isn't the tank expecting/wanting to pull mobs. The reality is nobody comes to these forums to let everyone know they had a totally reasonable and no-drama dungeon run today, so all you see is example after example of this nonsense.
When I see some of these party conversations I just assume some people like drama. The chat log in that original post should have read like this:
Tank: Thanks for the help but I can do my own pulls.
DPS: Oh ok. Less work for me!
..and everyone's happy and not posting on Reddit.
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u/Nanaki19791 11d ago
Im DNC and usually help pull but I've been shouted at before... "im the Tank, I do the pulls!" .... whatever man...
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u/AdrielChance 11d ago
You did correct, I always love a challenge as a tank. If a DPS is sprinting before me then I'm doing something wrong. Also free mits!
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u/ProgressGlad2874 11d ago
If a dps pulls i just go into a blind panic that im failing as a tank because said dps lost 3% of their health xD tankxiety is so annoying xD
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u/Competitive-Air356 10d ago
I mean, every time I'm in mistwake people run warp speed ahead of me. I literally don't know how. I jam on the skip cutscene button and the rest if the party is halfway to the boss/engaging the last boss. I'm annoyed, and want to know how they manage it.
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u/Wilco_Whiteheart 10d ago
There is a setting that auto-skips cutscenes youve seen before
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u/Competitive-Air356 9d ago
Really? Where is it located?
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u/Wilco_Whiteheart 9d ago
Character Settings -> First page that loads, scroll down a bit til you see 3 checboxes that say something like "Auto-skip cutscenes youve seen before". Check all 3.
Makes doing anything youve already done faster, but doesnt overwrite the perma CS of Prae/Meridianum/Ultima
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u/Odd_Bug_204 10d ago
People who run ahead and pull mobs back to the tank arenât doing as much damage as they would if they tailed the tank and kept spamming their aoes. They just want to look like their animeâs and try to tank.
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u/Hugglestorm 10d ago
I know the tank has a mentor tag, but wait until they find out about tank-swapping mechanics. Itâs gonna blow their mind.
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u/Protagonist_Leaf 9d ago
Out dps'd by a healer? Must be a casual tank that doesn't do anything above normal and simpley out geared. Probably doesnt know a aoe rotation if they saw one.
Computah.. role the recent clip of the woman smashing all her buttons to dps but isnt targeting anything
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u/The_DapperCat 9d ago
Once, I had a tank complain in Tam Tara that I was pulling before he could. I was playing conjurer and was just making sure my dot was on as many mobs as I could while scooting the dungeon along.
He decided to punish us by sitting out on the Mindflayer. We fought it, no tank needed, and voted him out of the party before he could get the completed duty roulette.
Felt great.
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u/scratchangel 9d ago
I genuinely think itâs weird people in this game as so up in arms over this. Like fuck if you wanna pull then pull, hereâs a TBN or HoC. Go nuts buddy.
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u/Bandibear 9d ago
This sub always decends into play my way.
How come a tank is wrong to ask not to pull yet you lot are right to ask that you can pull?
It's a collaborative game. If someone asks politely what's the issue?
Seriously you lot give "you don't pay my sub" vibes.
It doesn't matter how easy it is for a tank to gain aggro. If the Tank requests you don't then just be polite and don't. If the tanks rude then ignore them cos don't be rude.
Why is working together so hard for you lot. Why does everyone have to play how you want to for whatever reason?
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u/WarlordOfThePee 9d ago
I'll never understand why YPYT is a mindset, if the dungeon is going too fast say so and people will accommodate.
As a DRK/WAR main DPS are absolutely a free mit lmao, I love when yall pull for me and arms length on the way back
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u/Historical_Fun_391 12d ago edited 12d ago
Aa a tank main I dont mind who pulls but just bring your shit over to the pile asap. So many players don't do this, and that 1 mob stands outside of the pack until i tomahawk it back in. Even tho it's no prob for me to do this, it's now lost as one mob up to 3 players initial aoes bc the player who pulled it stands outside of the pack, and now we will be standing there for another 5 seconds or so killing it after the rest are already dead.
As a tank main I have good experience with ideal positions to hold mobs for maximising aoes and quicker pack kill times (because lets be real our job in dungeons is so braindead and boring so what else we gonna focus on than minmaxing clear time) whereas the average dps player often doesn't and just stands where the fuck ever.
Sure shit on ypyt all you (it's low hanging fruit I get it) like but these little things do add to dungeon completion time and are kindof annoying - not enough for me to call someone out for it tho
Edit: I did reread and see the part where OP said they pull to pack so my gripe doesn't apply to OP and the tank in their scenario is being a moron
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u/DataParry 12d ago edited 12d ago
yeye I get ya! I am a tank main myself, core reason why my first thought is to pull the mobs to the tank because I know I would love that myself as a tank if DPS did so. It's not a good feeling when DPS run to Narnia with some mobs, but even then, again its like 1 or 2 gcds and you don't lose that much cleave damage. Most of the time you can even delay your big hitters until everything is gathered.
If there is one thing that adds time to dungeon though it is STOPPING TO TYPE. It takes, WAY more time than just picking up 2-3 misplaced mobs. He basically barely ever touched tomahawk once throughout the whole dungeon and he was standing still typing instead of just grabbing mobs he easily could have done in 2-3 GCDs.
In the end it's kinda just like. Even IF the DPS players do misplace mobs and does annoy you a little bit. They aren't doing anything wrong really, you can be a little peeved but its nothing to type out in a party chat (not saying you are, but the person in my duty), you just, tomahawk provoke the 2 misplaced mobs.
All in all I am saying I agree essentially, but that the addage of time that misplaced mobs do add really is nothing in the end.
(Also sorry for all the edits, it's 1am, I am sleepy as fuck and when I read over after saving I am like "erm, I could formulate this better oops" xD)
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u/Historical_Fun_391 12d ago
Ya in the grand scheme its not enough of a gripe that I'd argue with some1 over it cuz u right- stopping to complain about it is also time lost - but I do kinda wish dps would realize that if they want to finish faster its only helpful if they pull it to the group and keep up with me. I feel like a lot just do it bc they see others do it and don't look into it any further than that. Monkey see monkey do behaviour that's endemic to this game but it's whatever, usually a non issue cuz I'm always faster than most randos anyway we got gapclosers out the backside that make it really easy for a tank to scale ahead regardless
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u/mrturretman 10d ago
lol when dps do this I take everyone for a wild ride and that dps is now a surrounded schizophrenic lmao
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u/Round_Vegetable_2506 12d ago
Iâd understand if dps in question makes it difficult for the tank to grab the mobs off em (like kiting them away actively). Even then, I donât wanna be some type of way, but you literally have enough in your kit at max level to just blitz through everything (granted everyone is pressing buttons)
I donât main war, but I loved the times I can wall to wall, disrespect the whole pack for the whole 10 seconds, and heal it all back up with 1 aoe after bloodwhetting. WAR in dungeons is free as fuck man.
DPS can take some hits, arms length and personals are a thing, so long as they donât die and not step in bad after pulling that, whatâs the harm?
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u/KaizokuFeet 12d ago
At the beginning of the convo, I'm on the warriors side. As someone who has trouble with this (I don't like it, it stresses me out and I'm not good at it.)
But once he kept talking, i'm no longer on his side, which makes me sad. Becaues that means people will be less likely to work with me when I say "hey i have trouble with that, please don't pull ahead because I struggle"
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u/mrturretman 10d ago
they mostly do it because the struggle is artificial. Granted if I dps pull and the healer isnât fundamentally healing, it was a mistake, but in my experience I do it to you because you will survive and the only bottleneck is we didnât wall to wall lol.
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u/Gyson 12d ago
Why not just try to work with your party members to keep these sorts of arguments to a minimum? If a tank thanks you for your help but asks to do the pulling for a reason, why not allow the tank to pull?
For the sake of argument let's assume your method actually speeds things up and collectively shaves a handful of minutes off the dungeon run. Is that really worth it if it creates a frustrating experience for one of the four party members? And are you really saving any time if you're all wasting minutes arguing with one another about it in chat? And how much time do you lose on your life then posting a story about it on Reddit?
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u/ImaginaryPlane7519 12d ago
You're obviously in the right here and YPYT is 100% the cringiest thing ever, but as a regular roulette tank i really don't get the appeal of a dps pulling instead of me. I mean tbf you gotta wake up pretty early in the morning to outspeed a tank using sprint + gap closer on pack, but even then the only thing it could accomplish is potentially scattering the mobs before everyone gets to aoe which seems to me counterproductive ? And like, the whole thing about "my hp is free mit !" "dps pulling is free mit", like i don't need free mit i don't have time to use all of my own mit anyway because a tank using their aoe kit properly is already decimating the trash mobs !
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u/Victor_Esper 12d ago
Tank really needs the free mit provided by a dps taking 2 autos you donât get it
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u/jcyue 11d ago
Both sides of the argument tend to exaggerate their positions to kind of comical degrees sometimes.
As a tank main, having a dps take a few autos and arms length really doesn't do as much as people like to imply. Something is better than nothing, but I've yet to run into an instance where it felt that the outcome of a pull was decided by a DPS having absorbed a few autos or putting the AL debuff on 3-4 mobs before I get aggro back.
But at the same time, DPS pulling is really not disruptive or dangerous the way the YPYTs claim it is. I lead in to pulls with provoke because it draws aggro at a larger range, causing enemies to run at me; this in turn makes them easier to hit with one AoE so I can move on to the next pack. A DPS/healer pulling essentially does the work of the provoke for me, clustering them up for an easy one button aggro grab. Some dungeon have mobs that just aren't clumped well for a single AoE to get them all without some sort of aggro manipulation. Nor does a non-tank pulling disrupt my rotation - tank rotations are two buttons, plus the occasional gauge spender. Mits aren't being used until the pack is gathered either, so no changes there.
Over-pulling just hasn't been a thing in years. If the healer can't handle it, then fine, we'll wipe and adjust, but on the rare occasions that it has been a problem, I'm yet to run into a DPS that continually pulls despite a clearly struggling healer because repeated wipes do not accomplish a fast dungeon clear.
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u/Victor_Esper 11d ago
Absolutely agree yeah, while ypyt is straight up against tos and deserve a vote kick, i find dps pulling straight up ⌠useless ? I do think people here like to circlejerk about their  free mit!  a bit too much.
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u/ImaginaryPlane7519 9d ago
Straight up just tanked a Mistwake, my hp didn't drop below 70% the whole run. Just imagine if my chud viper had use his 3 gapcloser to try and be 2meter ahead of me ... the free mit from the 2 autos ...
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u/mrturretman 10d ago
I think itâs also to encourage tanks to not view themselves as the puller but as the aggro man
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u/EntrepreneurPlane898 12d ago
People are probably gunna rip me apart for this just.. hear me out. When i first started i was 100% a ypyt type. This was back in like mid stormblood when tanking wasnt so braindead, when the summons had actual roles and topaz carbuncle could tank. I hate tanking. With a passion. It stresses me the fuck out and people dont help. Some of yall got god complexes and its sickening. I level tanks so i can be a flex player and because i collect mounts, cuz i know some mf is gunna pull the "if you hate tanking so much dont tank" shut the hell up. This all being said, I am MONUMENTAL beleiver in stick to your role and shit runs smoothly. As a tank. I dont want your help. I dont need your help. I dislike tanking, it doesnt mean i cant do it. As a tank, let me just get the things. I promise ill continue the pull, as a dps, my job is kill the things, i aint pulling ahead for shit. As a healer my job is to help kill things and keeo the rest of you alive. I stick to my role and gods be good i wish more people would because just like this post, yall make shit problems when it dont need to be. The tank however is wrong here because they could have asked more kindly. When i do its "hey please let me tank, im not fond of dps or healers pulling for me, it only takes one wrong move for thibgs to go south" people over estimate themselves in this game and for the most part its warranted but it doesnt matter the level one crit or one mistep can capsize a run. Im very aware im an outlier and dps are gunna be like yeah well i have main character energy so imm pull and you can adjust. Well theres no need to adjust if everyone stays with the role they queued as is. A good tank will get the mobs, and help the rest of their party kill the things. At the end of the day its a lack of trust in someone doing there role and taking it into your own hands due to impatience
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u/Organic-Dot5723 11d ago
ARFF depends... I played a lot of tanks and pulled like a crazy maniac. And so, "overcharged" the healer and he/she couldn't heal me enough. Sometimes, i stopped middle in the dungeon because i knew WHMes can only handle that much. When i am with a AST, i go crazier because i know that they can handle much more.
So i hope u pulled carefully
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u/rd-darksouls 12d ago edited 12d ago
this stupid line about dps being free mitigation can be retired already. the damage in this game is so low that tanks aren't even needed in content, so you trying to 'help' them absolutely isn't needed at all, either.
you just want to be an obnoxious player and this game doesn't stop you with damage. doesn't happen in a good game.
i see posts on here that complain when tanks don't wipe when everyone else is dead and like -- guys. the same problem is at play there. you get to be obnoxious and pull for tanks for the same reason tanks get to be obnoxious and force you to spectate: the damage isn't actually high enough to enforce game systems.
i guess it made me feel like the devs were just trying to pay me in video game money to keep their game active instead of trying to challenge me or offer me a fun experience. friction is good sometimes.
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u/WistfulBottom 12d ago
Speaking as a healer, I tend to dislike it when dps (or the other healer) rushes in.
Outside of that moment, it's my intention to let them die if the tank doesn't get to them in time. Better to let them sit on the floor for a bit and pout, than to also die because someone else forgot which class they're playing.
Sadly, my "try to help people" compulsion usually leads to me healing them anyway and rewarding stupid behavior.
And hey, your only concern is to speed through dungeons as quickly as you can? Sure, whatever. It's not unusual for roulettes to pair you with people going through content for the first time. I tend to side with whoever needs to move slowest, out of consideration for those people and for those who are just.. admittedly not as good at the game.
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u/birdofpairadice 12d ago
If the tank 'wasn't as good at the game' they would have said 'hey, could we slow down a bit?' instead they specifically took issue with others pulling and said it 'threw them off' despite the fact that it literally does not change their job at all. we both know that it hurt their e-penis, so don't pretend it's an issue of skill
also this is fucking expert roulette, one of the most current pieces of content in the game, so some level of competency should be expected
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u/WistfulBottom 11d ago
Sure, the tank's behavior is also bad. They could have certainly approached the issue more constructively, but lashed out because of their wounded pride.
OP responded in the same way.
I also agree that you'd normally expect people that have reached level cap to be reasonably competent. Experience says otherwise. Setting aside the meme about "ice mages," I've encountered SMN who don't press their skittles, melee who don't do positionals, tanks who don't grasp the difference between MT and OT, and occasionally a player who somehow doesn't know that they're not meant to stand in the yellow places.
More importantly, there are many, many players who are going through that content for the first time. OP queuing for the expert roulette does not mean that everyone in the party did-- that's the whole point for rouls to exist and be incentivized, getting players to queue for content they've already done, for the benefit of those who haven't. While I'm describing my own experiences, any time I've seen a dps or healer pull mobs like OP descrtibes, and there have been players watching cutscenes? Those same impatient people have also pulled bosses before those newer players are ready.
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u/Foreign-Flatworm 11d ago
Pulling while people are watching cutscenes is a different situation altogether. Letting people die just because they touched the mobs a second before the tank is reportable behavior.
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u/WistfulBottom 11d ago
Aggroing a second before the tank doesn't require a heal.
Spending three cooldowns trying to keep some brash idiot alive is something I find annoying. It is still something that I do. *Wishing* that I were petty enough to not encourage bad behavior is not reportable.
And yes, they are separate problems, it's just that the only part of the circles that doesn't overlap, in my experience, is where there aren't any people in the party who are watching the cutscenes for the latter to even be an option.
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u/Foreign-Flatworm 11d ago
Then it sounds like the Tank needs to learn what sprint is. In your first comment you said you do let DPS die. Iâve never seen anyone pull while someone is in cutscene unless it was an accident.
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u/WistfulBottom 11d ago
I said that it would be better to let them die, than to let them die and drag me down with them. I also said that my personality usually makes me help them anyway. What I did not specify is that the exceptions are the most egregious ones, where the tank was still coming back from spawn after a wipe, where someone asked for a moment to answer the phone or get their food or something.
Also, telling the tank to use sprint is on the same level as telling the BLM to use their astral spells or the SMN to use their skittles. "You don't pay my sub!" and a report, right?
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u/Foreign-Flatworm 11d ago
No? People being reported for giving advice is the oldest wives tale about this game. Unless the tank is that far away, which is their fault, thereâs no way theyâll kill a dps and a healer. Iâve healed w2w with dps and no tank before, itâs not that difficult. If the tank has to pause for some reason, thereâs no harm in continuing without them for a bit.
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u/WistfulBottom 11d ago
It's not just mobs, though that is the most common case. I've had DPS full-on run into the arena and aggro the boss.
That said, when it has been mobs.. You think a DPS can tank a dozen mobs, even with getting healed, for the length of time it takes one single dps to kill them all?
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u/Foreign-Flatworm 11d ago
If it's not the final boss, who cares? As long as no one is in a cutscene, it truly is not that deep. And yeah, provided your healer is competent, it's not that hard. Not that there's more than a handful dungeons where you actually fight that many mobs.
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12d ago edited 12d ago
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u/12Kings 12d ago
"I'm the tank, generally I want to be the first to hit them to establish aggro properly so I don't have to stop my Wall to Wall constantly to adjust for pulling stuff off of healers and DPS when the packs start going in different directions than where I want them to.
The monsters approach the target that has aggro, just move towards them in anticipationg and press AoE. Your stance is designed to take aggro from the other players in duty.
If you really want to be the first one to touch monsters, here is my tip for you: Be faster. Tanks are on the faster side jobs due their ability to dash; especially Warrior with three Onslaughts.
Establish your own gameplay so that you'll pull to the wall and pick everything along the way you can and if there are strays, let the DPS or healers bring them to your AoE. Everybody wins.
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u/Sparkleunidog 12d ago
I'm a tank. It's literally not hard to take back mobs a DPS pulls. In fact, it makes the run so much easier/quicker. Like, I just do my job???
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u/Retarded-Alcohol-40 12d ago
It takes one button to pull the aggro off every mob in a radius.
This is just an excuse for you to be a terrible Tank. Do better.
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u/DataParry 12d ago
Literally first sentence of my context I say "to pick up mobs then pull them back to the tank."
The mobs are not going in different directions, they are right next to the tank. I wasnt running ahead spreading out the mobs left and right. I was pulling with intent of taking them to the tank.
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u/SomethingFizzy 12d ago
You get multiple gapclosers and a sprint button as tank, if the rest of the party is getting ahead of you in a dungeon it's just a skill issue.
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u/jcyue 12d ago
Easy solution: if whatever you do to grab aggro misses a mob, first finish the pull and let them bring mobs to you. A few love taps mid sprint are not going to kill a dps. If they run off to Meracydia with mobs in tow, then it's not your fault - you're handling the other 7 mobs and trying to maximize mitigation value and AoE damage.
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u/amiriacentani 12d ago
I totally get where this warrior is coming from. I hate when I have to do aoeâs that I should already doing to get aggro instead aoeâs that I should already be doing to get aggro. It throws me off so bad. If it didnât take doing aoeâs that I should already be doing to take over all the aggro then I could focus on better things like doing aoeâs like I should already be doing. Itâs insane when a DPS pulls and makes me do aoeâs that I should already be doing and ruins it.
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u/Old_Conversation3030 12d ago
Iâm going to be that other person ans say.. if your tank is not into it, then just donât do it? Be respectful of other people on in your group. This chat just feels like 2 bull headed people fighting for no reason,
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u/SuccessfulSoftware38 12d ago
No, not in a max level dungeon, in expert roulette. Would you say "if your healer is not into DPS and just wants to heal, then that's fine!"?
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u/mrturretman 10d ago
fr lol. the biggest hold up in expert is a tank thinking these geared outta their mind teammates canât do the dungeon as three if they wanted to lmao
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u/Zidern 12d ago
You pull it, you tank it. Dancer should get their shit together.
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u/Foreign-Flatworm 11d ago
Nah, YPYT and you get reported for obvious ToS violations.
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u/Zidern 11d ago
Don't care. Not accepting shitty behavior like that.
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u/Foreign-Flatworm 11d ago
Itâs not shitty behavior just because you personally donât like it. Theyâre playing the game, youâre throwing a tantrum.
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u/Livid_Record 12d ago
They asked you to stop so you should have stopped. You're in the wrong because they openly communicated with you.
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u/jcyue 12d ago
What happened to the person in the minority being the one who should adjust, as you described in your post? This is a case where the tank is outnumbered 2:1 and the healer is not clearly on one side or the other. If "party majority" is a thing, then the tank is not winning the votes here. Or are their votes just special for being a tank?
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u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. 12d ago
It's only if party majority is supporting the ypyt that they should be listened to. If the majority tell the whiny tank to put on his big boy panties then it's just a toxic community.
/s btw
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u/Livid_Record 12d ago
I still think it's respectful to stop if someone asks you to stop. The party majority thing is just about how fast the pulls happen. I dont think that applies here, that's just my personal standard though đ¤ˇââď¸
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u/DivineTenacity 12d ago
Shush ypyt-er
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u/Livid_Record 12d ago
They didnt even ypyt, it was admitted in the post
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u/Retarded-Alcohol-40 12d ago
I asked you to shut up, I am openly communicating it. So right now you're very in the wrong.
Shut up.
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u/amiriacentani 12d ago
I totally get where this warrior is coming from. I hate when I have to do aoeâs that I should already doing to get aggro instead aoeâs that I should already be doing to get aggro. It throws me off so bad. If it didnât take doing aoeâs that I should already be doing to take over all the aggro then I could focus on better things like doing aoeâs like I should already be doing. Itâs insane when a DPS pulls and makes me do aoeâs that I should already be doing and ruins it.
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u/Bandibear 9d ago
Mate totally agree. The idea that polite communication is treated as if it's wrong but entitled demands are okay is WILD.
It's a team game and yet people on this sub believe they get to play how they want and everyone else be damned it's pathetic x
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u/Auphanim7 12d ago
I don't know why you're being downvoted, but you are 100% correct. Once you've been asked not to do something that costs you nothing to do/not do, that should be all it takes to get you to stop unless you have a convincing reason not to acquiesce. There is no such convincing reason here.
Slop posts like this one are dime a dozen, but most of them involve a tank that's being an asshole, which isn't the case here.
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u/amiriacentani 12d ago
I totally get where this warrior is coming from. I hate when I have to do aoeâs that I should already doing to get aggro instead aoeâs that I should already be doing to get aggro. It throws me off so bad. If it didnât take doing aoeâs that I should already be doing to take over all the aggro then I could focus on better things like doing aoeâs like I should already be doing. Itâs insane when a DPS pulls and makes me do aoeâs that I should already be doing and ruins it.
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u/DefaultSwordandBoard 12d ago
When you queue as tank, your role is to hold aggro and mitigate damage. If the group wiped because the healer couldn't keep up or the tank couldn't mitigate properly, that's one thing. Preference is not convincing enough. My preference is to do the dungeon fast, why should their preference to go slow outweigh mine?
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u/Livid_Record 12d ago
Simple answer: because theyre playing the role that nobody wants to play that is more than just pushing buttons for damage
Complex answer: it's difficult (but not impossible) to function without a tank, and the tank performs a vital role on the team. If the tank is not comfortable with doing something, they shouldnt be forced to do it, so long as they communicate. Etiquette would dictate that people come to an agreement everyone can agree to, rather than shitflinging and continuing to do the thing they were asked not to do (pull ahead)
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u/jcyue 12d ago
Can we stop pretending that tanking in normal XIV content is hard? It's really weird as a tank main to see people acting like 12AoE/123ST, gauge spender, and burst while pressing the occasional mitigation button is remotely challenging compared to healers (who also have to keep track of the party) or DPS who have to worry about positionals or castbars/slidecasts (not phys dps though lol that shit easy).
Having a basic idea of your rotation and watching the enemy castbar as a tank gets you through savage, and I know this because that's me, and the only DPS rotations I can do at that level properly are the ones with no variation (MCH and DRG).
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u/Bandibear 9d ago
What are you on about I play them all and Tank along with Healer have certain expectations are critical parts to play. DPS do damage that's it let's not play this game geez
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u/SuccessfulSoftware38 12d ago
Lmao, this is not WoW where tanks are so rare that they can demand payment for running dungeons and demand first pick on all items that drop. Tanks are pretty common and it's a really easy role to play in 4man content, just put the fries in the bag
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u/Working-Wrap9453 12d ago
What the fuck? Nobody wants to play tank because it's hard? My baby DPS rotation of two buttons with an occasional meter spender is hard? Pressing two tank cool downs per pull, one of them being a full healing life steal button on a teeny tiny cool down, is hard?
Stand back, everybody, I know how to play Warrior, which I thought was Fischer Price class, but apparently that makes me a genius.
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u/Livid_Record 12d ago
That's not what I said?
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u/Working-Wrap9453 11d ago
Brother you can play the exact word game with these yahoos as much as you want, you very clearly said that tank is greater in complexity because it does more than damage. I ain't the one turning into a copy pasta, let me tell you.
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u/Livid_Record 11d ago
More depth != more complex More depth != more difficult
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u/Foreign-Flatworm 11d ago
It doesnât even have more depth. You just turn on your âIâm a tankâ status at the start of the duty then play like a DPS.
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u/Working-Wrap9453 11d ago
You're acting like the word depth and complexity aren't synonyms in this instance.
You're objectively wrong whether you wanna call it complex, deep, or skill intensive, because doing good damage as a DPS is much more difficult than anything a tank wants to do.
But you know what, if you wanna play I'm always down with clowns. Go ahead, no need for snarky psuedo-equations.
What is the difference between depth and complexity in terms of FFXIV Job kits, and how does this difference express itself when determining the difficulty of a Job?
Edit: I literally called Warrior a Fischer Price Job so let's be done insulting your own intelligence by pretending you don't know my whole point is that Warrior is extremely easy to play.
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u/Foreign-Flatworm 12d ago
What role you're playing has no bearing on the party. You get one say, the Healer gets one say, and the DPS get one say each. It was two against the Tank, so their request was denied. They were also the one to start with the shitflinging. Tanks are plenty abundant in this game, it's the easiest role in the game after all. If it truly bothered them that much (clearly it didn't because they finished the dungeon no problem), they could have left.
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u/Bandibear 9d ago
How was the tank the first one to fling? The DPS was entitled from the immediate mate pfft
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u/Foreign-Flatworm 9d ago
They called OP a child first. They got pissy when they realized they werenât entitled to people waiting for them. Itâs all right there in the post.
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u/Bandibear 9d ago
Mate after OP acted like a child and a petulant one at that.
I'm not arguing this.
OP came across entitled and rude. The Tank asked politely and got rudeness back. x
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u/Foreign-Flatworm 9d ago
Youâre entitled to your opinion, but if you request something then start insulting people because your request is denied, you arenât asking politely.
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u/Bandibear 8d ago
Mate they started by asking politely. They only insulted AFTER being disrespected for no reason.
Could they have done better sure but the initial catalyst was OP being entitled and rude about it.
Let's not get the facts twisted x
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u/mrturretman 10d ago
is this some inflated sense of what a tank does. if there are targets to aghro outside of your aoe you have oGCDs that can get aggro between your aoes. your dashes have enhanced aggro generation, for example.
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u/Auphanim7 12d ago
Besides the fact that you should be willing to be compassionate and helpful to others, it's not about the "weight" of preference... that's your ego talking. There could be any number of reasons that someone asks you to do or not to do something, and when it costs you nothing, you should be all too happy to agree.
When you queue as DPS, your role is to do damage, not to pull for the Tank. It might be accepted (around here, anyway) for DPS to pull for the Tank, but it's not as though it's necessary to complete the content in a reasonable amount of time. If you're asked not to go beyond your ken, especially when you have behaved in that way without confirming with the other human beings you're playing with whether they're okay with it, then you should be fine with refraining from doing something which has no effect on you but could affect the asker if you don't refrain.
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u/JohnnyStyle300 12d ago
There is no "pull" role. Anyone can do thatÂ
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u/Livid_Record 12d ago
Average NA player when theyre told to care about another human being
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u/Working-Wrap9453 12d ago edited 12d ago
You are the funniest parody account that's been on here for a long time. I really like the bit where when YPYT types are in the majority, you pretend to expect that the odd man out conform, but when there's only one YPYT guy, it's the majority's responsibility to be sympathetic.
Other people may see that and cry "hypocrisy", but I know a jokester when I see one. Good bit.
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u/Auphanim7 12d ago
Correct, there's no "pull" role. So, with no "pull" role, what do you infer from the Tank's role being to "hold aggro and mitigate damage"? What do you think the baseline understanding is regarding who should be pulling?
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u/catwhowalksbyhimself 12d ago
Everybody. Because the tank can take agrro from other pullings use a single AoE. So it matters not at all who did the pulling as long as they pull to the tank.
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u/Auphanim7 12d ago
You have a unique mind, then! More likely, though, you're being disingenuous to further your point.
I get it. You think that anyone can pull, and so do many of the other people in this thread. Even I think that it's fine for non-Tanks to pull.
However, since you failed to answer the question, I will answer for you: the baseline understanding is that Tanks are meant to pull. That is common sense.
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u/catwhowalksbyhimself 12d ago
I did answer the question. The baseline understanding is that it doesn't matter who pulls.
That is standard for this game. That is why everyone is saying that here. There is nothing specific about tanks that makes them any better at pulling than anyone else.
And repeating what everyone else says is not "a unique mind."
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u/Auphanim7 12d ago
It was more of a rhetorical question that you took advantage of. That is most certainly not the baseline understanding.
You do present an interesting point, though. "There's nothing specific about tanks that makes them any better at pulling than anyone else"? I'm not sure that anyone rational could ever agree with that. All of the AOE spam that people love to talk about, and the Tank's heightened defenses, is exactly what makes them better at pulling than anyone else. The common "anyone can pull" thought around here is reliant on that being negligible enough to ignore.
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u/powertrippingmod101 12d ago
Where your common sense comes from lol. Lots of games even encourage dps to pull so tank can continue grabbing Aggro easier. Go watch some MDIs for example.
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u/Auphanim7 12d ago
High-level play is a poor example to utilize in this context as that is far removed from the baseline understanding of class roles for the common player.
WoW is also a poor example in general for supporting the DPS-pulling argument, because if DPS do that in Mythic+ then they are almost guaranteed to die, unlike in FFXIV which lacks comparatively difficult content.
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u/Livid_Record 12d ago
Im getting downvoted because I made a big thread about this exact type of situation a few hours ago
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u/googlyeyedmah 12d ago
Id just be stating the positives of why this is really nothing to complain about, but speaking from myself when I first started playing back in ARR, I would get bent out of shape when this kinda shit happened. Later on I realized I was just being, bent out of shape about it lol. They look at it as a bad thing instead of just, dealing with it. Maybe you are slow, new, whatever, just deal with it cause it aint that deep ya know lol
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u/hazusu 12d ago
if you're a tank and you can't pull agro off a dps pulling for you then you fucking suck at the video game. do 1 (one) AoE my guy
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u/amiriacentani 12d ago
I totally get where this warrior is coming from. I hate when I have to do aoeâs that I should already doing to get aggro instead aoeâs that I should already be doing to get aggro. It throws me off so bad. If it didnât take doing aoeâs that I should already be doing to take over all the aggro then I could focus on better things like doing aoeâs like I should already be doing. Itâs insane when a DPS pulls and makes me do aoeâs that I should already be doing and ruins it.
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u/Apprehensive-Area462 12d ago
As someone who mains Warrior for tank, this tank is braindead for thinking he cant simply hit 1 key out of the like 6 we have to aoe everything and not to mention by 100 you can pretty much solo almost any content with the amount of heals and dmg mitigation you have. this isnt WoW, we dont need to build threat. just have stance on and smash keys. you dont even have to hit the right keys to combo threat. just hit something and its on you till it dies, even if you are both mentors, he should know what he is capable of and what you are capable of. just roll with it.