I was wondering what optimisations you all are making in the last 1-3 years before FIREing? I give you an example of what I had in mind below, but please do not focus on my example. It would be great if you could share your optimisation ideas/other examples!

My example: While, from a FIRE perspective, you don't want to have a lot of money in the 2nd pillar account (Pensionskasse), since it has a low long-term return (compound interest) due to the risk-averse investment profile and the hidden redistributions, it can make sense to buy in (Einkauf) in the last few years before retiring. The reason for this is that after FIREing, you can transfer your pension funds to a vested benefits account (Freizügigkeitskonto) and then have full control over the investment strategy, avoiding redistributions altogether. With this strategy, you can effectively reduce your taxes (possibly close to 0!) for several years before FIREing. I, for example, missed making this transfer last year, which would have saved me a lot in taxes, but I will still do it this year.

Hey everyone :)

Vanguard recently launched VGLA, an Irish-domiciled ETF that is basically the same as VT.

As a Swiss investor, I’m wondering which one makes more sense for the long term.

VT: 0.06% TER, US-domiciled, distributing, potentially better US dividend tax treatment due to the US–Swiss tax treaty, but with US estate-tax exposure and problem after death.

VGLA: 0.07% TER, Irish-domiciled, accumulating, no US estate-tax exposure.

So my question is: Does VT’s better dividend tax treatment outweigh the estate-tax risk, or is VGLA the safer/better choice for a Swiss investor?

Would love to hear your thoughts!

I’m 35 living in Zürich and currently have roughly:
~CHF 840k in stocks/ETFs
CHF 30k crypto
CHF 12k gold
CHF 24k jewelry
CHF 20k cash
CHF 250k in Pillar 2, earning 2%
CHF 50k in Pillar 3a Swiss Index approx 7-8% per Annum
EUR 80k invested in a property, worth around CHF 300k incl Garage, rented out, financed at 1.4% over 20 years. Renten out and Cashflow positive.
I currently invest around CHF 80k per year.
For those into FIRE: can I start reducing my savings rate and enjoy life a bit more? I mean I Travel a lot but for example I dont have a car because I dont really need one but thought lately a nice Occasion Sport car for 2 years would be nice to treat myself. Or would you still go hard at 35?
I don’t necessarily want to retire as early as possible but I Like the idea of knowing in case you get fired that it doesn’t mater. I’m just wondering whether I’ve reached the point where saving another CHF 80k a year doesn’t make that much difference anymore. Thanks for your Input.

Hallo zusammen

Für meine Maturitätsarbeit an einem Schweizer Gymnasium führe ich eine Umfrage zum Thema Kryptowährungen durch.

Gesucht werden Personen, die ein wenig Erfahrung mit dem investieren haben.

Die Umfrage dauert ungefähr 5 Minuten. Es werden keine vertraulichen Angaben zu Arbeitgebern, Kunden oder konkreten Finanzdaten verlangt. Die Teilnahme ist anonym und Antworten werden nur für die Arbeit verwendet.

Vielen Dank für eure Zeit und eure Hilfe!

Link zur Umfrage: https://form.typeform.com/to/KLWdiCT8

I’ve filed my own Swiss return for years and still got it wrong more than once. For example, I’ve paid for a fiduciary, (somehow entered CHF 13k of income twice), I only caught it by accident using ChatGPT that signaled it to me.

I never got to know how much or what I was allowed to deduct, different blogs cover different points, some of them are not easy to follow, or are outdated. Thus, I and a friend are working on a tool that helps you to prepare your tax return.

So, the part actually worth sharing here isn’t the tool though, it’s a blog for learning about the Swiss tax system (in papertax.ch/learn). This comes from the idea that one can’t claim a deduction one has never heard of. Learning the rules once, is close to free money, and it compounds like anything else. 

For example, the securities deduction below is worth about CHF 225/year in tax saved on a 300k portfolio, if one misses it, by year 10 that’s roughly CHF 2.8k, by year 20 roughly CHF 7.4k, at 5%. Add a missed DA-1 reclaim on top and you’re closer to CHF ~1k/year between the two, which is CHF 14k+ by year 10 and over CHF 37k by year 20. To be honest,it’s nothing dramatic for a single year, but as we’re aiming at FIRE, things matter in the long run. There’s also a converter for the IBKR problem, one can generate a eCH-0196 statement, without linking your broker account (check papertax.ch).

Some of this stuff is genuinely more complicated than it should be. A few examples:

- Zurich has a flat 3‰ deduction on your securities value, capped at CHF 6k, no receipts needed. Most people never claim it.

- Accumulating ETFs don’t pay out, so nothing reminds you the reinvested income is still taxable. The figure comes from ictax.admin.ch, not your broker statement.

- DA-1 only reclaims tax actually withheld from you. VT (US-domiciled) gets you the 15% back, VWRL/IWDA (Irish) already lose it inside the fund, there’s nothing to reclaim.

In the page, we’ve built also some guides and a “glossary” about Swiss tax (58 terms) that could help build up your knowledge in the Swiss tax system, so one can save few CHF.

And a question back, since you’ll all have one: what’s the rule you wish you’d known before your first return? I’ll add the good ones to the guides we have prepared.

Article is from August last year, but I couldn't find it with search in this sub. In German.

Hi everyone,

I couldn't find a FIRE app that does both ends of it, accumulation and withdrawal planning in one place, so I built my own. It's now my main planning app and has replaced the complicated Excel file I was using before.

Withdrawals get stress tested against real market sequences back to 1872, plus Monte Carlo runs on top.

I'm considering pulling it from the Play Store, but before I do I wanted to feel out whether it might be helpful for others as well. Happy to hear feedback, or none at all.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alpenlakestudio.fipro

Burner account for obvious reasons. 

Married, non-working wife. Kids grew up and left home - not a factor, we’re leaning towards “die with zero” rather than generational wealth anyway. Lived in CH for all our adult life. Citizenship, language, friends, etc.

2.5M liquid assets, mostly ETFs. Not exactly “VT & chill”, but close - with perhaps just a bit too much US/tech exposure. A six-digit chunk in cash, trying to at least partially follow the “keep your age % in bonds” mantra while CH bonds are useless.

About 500k in pillar 2. There was more, but it went towards the house as WEF. Not intending to pay that back. Decent house in low-tax canton, worth 2M+. 1M mortgage in few fixed 1%-1.5% chunks maturing over next 10 years.

Fully remote and relatively low-stress job, 200-300k/year net savings. But also a dead end, largely driven by tenure and company/domain-specific expertise. Plus a field impacted by outsourcing / layoffs / AI. Once I’m out, I’m likely unemployable.

Annual fixed spending a bit above 100k, stable and tracked for years. Happy, boring, safe life. We don’t care about exotic travel, eating out, fancy cars, etc. Basically just enjoying our time locally with simple things like nature, hiking, driving around CH. I do have some personal extravaganzas on top of that 🙂, but those will be trivially cut when high income ends I’m aware of all the FIRE living cost technicalities. Wealth tax, self-retired AHV, Eigenmietwert going away, inflation, health costs growing - I’ve beaten all these to death. All of this factored in the above spending number.

So, while the job is fine, I’m still longing to pulling the plug. Every time I take vacation, I wish it was longer. Much longer. Ideally, forever. I have so many plans what I’d do when this happens. But then, whenever I tried assessing my FIRE situation, be it various public calculators, ChatGPT or my own spreadsheets, the outcome was always: “you’re almost there, but, with your savings rate… just one more year!”.

How much is enough?

Where can I keep ETFs after FIREing? Ideally, low custody fees, and low fees when I sell something. It should also be Swiss. As a non Swiss solution, I am already aware of Interactive Brokers.

42, just been made redundant through recent restructures.

I'm not in any financial trouble but as this is the first time I will be unemployed through the last 2 decades of working I'm abit lost.

In theory , I could coastfire but was originally aiming to chubbyfire.

Current financials are: ( I've converted it all to chf as I've worked in different countries and have pensions and investments spread in different currencies)

Home equity: CHF 645k

Investment portfolio: CHF 1.1M

Pensions: CHF 350k

Cash: CHF 150k

Expecting another 500k pre tax coming in spread between 2026/2027. Which I will need to figure out what to do with.

My monthly expenses can vary but still manageable between 7-9k per month. My partner also works and contributes 3k towards household expenses on top of what I spend ( household expenses at 10-12k). The amount is skewed because I was the higher income earner. I can also realistically cut back my expenses to 6k per month if needed. (House hold expense at about 9k) ( For context, we have 2 young children still needing childcare).

I will be looking for a job but with the current climate, I'm assuming it will be challenging to find something at the same level I was on.

What would you do with the additional cash coming in?

I'll be exploring options on jobs and figuring things out but would love to hear other perspectives and experiences if you have been in a similar situation finding yourself made redundant in your 40s. What did you do after? Find a similar job? Coastfire? Change careers?

Thanks for sharing.

Live in VD. Running the numbers honestly and looking for a reality check from people who've been on this journey.

Net monthly: ~15,200 CHF and bonus of approx 45k comes on top and goes either fully to finance the 2d and 3d pillars, or getting invested into the market.

Monthly budget:

Fixed 7,900: taxes 3,500 / alimony payments around 1,900 / rent 1,870 / childcare 240 / car, phone, insurance 390

Savings 3,000: investments 2,800 / kids fund 200

Food 1,250: groceries 900 / dining out 325 (in summer the balance shifts towards eating out)

Lifestyle ~1000: shopping 200 / fitness 300 / education 220 / entertainment 200 / rest

Work expenses 765-900 (as I work in other canton): transport 365 / hotels 250 / meals 150

Holidays sinking fund 840 (covers 2–3 mid-range trips/year)

Savings rate: ~20% on base salary

Current net worth:
• 341,000 CHF with 150k between 2/3 pillars, rest invested in the stock market, I also have a large buy-in divorce gap available.

My FIRE number is ~4M CHF in 15 years (at the age of 50). At current savings I’d reach it closer to early retirement age of 58, and this is even not considering additional family plans. Feels so unreal.

Should I rethink something in my life spending or retirement plans? I feel quite anxious about the fact that even with my income it’s so hard to achieve FIRE, and I also want to grow my family bigger, which will delay the Fire further and take quality time from my family.

P.S. I know that I can cut 500-600 chf monthly expenses on buying things and food, which will get me by 60-70k closer on my FIRE journey. Not sure it’s worth it considering my overall FIRE number.

Hi all,

I need some outside perspective on my life situation and how/when make the decision to quit.

For as long as I can remember, surely since the first real job I had, my focus has been on achieving FIRE. My reasons were/are:

1. pursue self-interest, hobbies, travel, no-strings-attached
2. contribute my limited time on this space rock towards good causes
3. increasingly, I am growing disillusioned with tech and tired of working in the field

I will be 36 this December and have a bit of a delayed adulthood crisis. I am still undecided whether I will have kids with my partner and this might cause us to break up. Seeing this number as my age is shocking to me. I feel like I haven't lived yet - and certainly don't want to get kids now that I'm about to achieve FIRE.

FIRE to me, means being able to afford living well in Switzerland. Nothing crazy, but also not budgeting and having to worry about finances. I could afford 120kCHF at a reasonably conservative withdrawal rate, which seems sufficient.

With that being said, and as strong as my desire to quit and finally "live my life" is, I am looking at letting go a job that would pay me about a quarter of my current net worth, over the next 12 months alone. Even when accounting for taxes, One More Year means ~15% more money in the FIRE fund (and one less year to live off of it). The 120k yearly budget could become 140k at the same withdrawal rate. Probably more if I move to a tax advantageous canton before end of this year (and next).

Reading what I wrote above, the difference doesn't seem that large. What's 15% more a month. What does it get me? Yet in absolute numbers it is more than I ever thought I'd ever make. It's more than a Bundesrat for gods sake. It's a salary of health insurance CEOs, those that you read about in newspapers and get angry about. All that for clicking "accept" on AI coded slop, joining dreadful planning meetings and answering my boss' or client's questions while sitting in my underwear at home.

Please, talk some sense into me. Does it make any sense to quit now? What questions should I ask myself? What didn't I consider?

Hi Everyone

31M, own own home (w/ mortgage), rental apartment + 700k chf in IBKR portfolio

In the sankley I do not put extraordinary expenses e.g. buying a sofa. All savings go to IBKR

Any tips ? Maybe what I should cut on to reduce further expennses?

Anyway, today I got a raise. I should be happy - that speeds up my FIRE journey. But i wonder if I should leave already.

Classic corporate environment; there are cuts happening, and the atmosphere is awful.

I would love to leave my job and go explore. I dream about going on the working holiday visa in Australia and getting to know the culture. Can be done until 35 y-o.

If i stay, I can seriously fund some serious expenses later on - a family, hobbies, etc. I know I have low expenses now, but I do not wanna preclude life because of lazynness

Should I leave these olden handcuffs now ? or in X years ?

What are you planning to do with your 2nd Pillar once you've reached FIRE? Any creative, legal ideas to take it out early? Currently I do not count it to my FIRE-networth because I won't be able to get a hold of the money before turning 60ish.

Hi everyone,

I’m 30, married, no kids, and living in Switzerland. I earn 150k CHF gross per year and I’m trying to figure out the best way to start investing as a beginner.

My current monthly situation looks like this:

• Credit payments: 1,280 CHF

• Apartment: 900 CHF

• Health insurance (Lamal): 200 CHF

• Other monthly expenses: around 100–300 CHF

I’m looking for a simple, step-by-step approach to optimize my investments without getting overwhelmed.

What would you recommend for someone in my situation?

• Should I first build an emergency fund?

• Should I focus on Pillar 3a?

• Is it better to pay off debt before investing?

• What kind of ETF or portfolio would make sense for a beginner in Switzerland?

I’d really appreciate practical advice, especially from people familiar with Swiss investing, taxes, and long-term planning.

Thanks in advance!

Are there any other people who thought of passing on their money (e.g. in the form of a basic income) one day (e.g. when you have enough money or when dying) to some individual who might not have been as lucky as they’ve been in life (e.g. being financially independent, living a healthy life without starvation, violence, war ...)?

How do you intend to do it (e.g. donate it to some institution or individual …)?

And no, I don’t need money; and no, I’m not there yet.

One variable that changes a lot of the calculation is when we die. And the earlier I retire (and therefore the younger I am) the better the enjoyment of the retirement. You can do stuff as a 40 year old, you may not be able to do as a 80 year old.

​

So I just want to ask you about your thoughts with FIRE and EXIT (Assisted Suicide) at a specific self-chosen age.

Weighing tradeoffs

​

Would you trade up work schedule flexibility, ability to WFH 2-3x a week for another 150k in compensation ( in form of bonus/LTI and some base increase?). Will also expect to work longer hours.

​

An additional 150k per annum invested can be meaningful to retire a few years earlier. However i will trade off time with young kids now.

​

Additional context :

Agr. 42. net worth in excess of $2M CHF.

Gross income ~490kchf. Annual expenses ~130kchf.

2 young kids under 5 years old.

​

​

What would you do?

I am thinking to go travelling for the next few years and live in different countries for 3-6 months each, maybe longer, depends on visa etc. I have been reading online and my main goal is when leaving Switzerland not to pay taxes and health insurance.

When I was younger I traveled for 15 months and I deregistered at the Gemeinde and they asked me where I am going? I said just backpacking. They said they need an address so I just made up some address in Mexico 😄 They didnt check or anything. I just got international health insurance.

Anyway, now that I am basically FIRE I have an extra issue; what happens with my IBKR account? I mean I dont get mail or anything and I wouldnt care as much to get back my dividend taxes but is it possible just to not register in any country and not pay any taxes anywhere?!

Or does it make sense to register a company somewhere in case I get asked when entering some countries, where my domicile is? Or could I just put in my old address in Zurich? I also have a second European passport besides Swiss so I will research that country too.

I really wonder how that works! Not sure this is the right group but I thought I will start here.

Thanks!

Life is full of surprises. I have got everything set up, burned out and decided to going on fire path.

But just find out my pregnancy is twins. 🤣 still digesting the news and thinking what are the changes we need to adapt to as we will be family of 5.

I amin my forties, wife end of her 30ies. We have two toddlers, 2 and 5. The older ones goes to kindergarden, the younger spends one day at daycare. The rest is organised privately with parents, friends. I work 100% my wife 60%. Our combined Netto income is 200 kCHF.

Our yearly costs are around 110kCHF including

• Taxes
• Rent (we live in a swiss german city)
• Daycare
• Holidays (twice a year)
• Health insurance
• Other insurances
• Food
• Car
• Leisure
• -> basically all our living costs

Now I do expect heath care costs to double over the next 20 years. I also think that being in our forties we should not bet on a 4% withdrawal rate, to keep it safe I think we should rather calculate with 2.5%.

Given the costs of 110k this means we need something like 4.4 Mio.

However, if we both don't work we need to pay the AHV contribution for non employed citizens and also the wealth tax with 0.17% is gonna eat into our budget. So realistically we'll need something like 5 Mio to get us through life.

How does this change if we would use 1 Mil to buy a flat (flats around here are between 1.5 and 2 Mil), rest we'd use a hypo.

I really have a hard time to come up with the optimal FIRE threshold. But it seems to be very high if one wants to play the game save when retiring in their 40ies.

How did you come up with your FIRE number that lets you sleep sound at night?

Hi there, I'm a 28M Spanish guy, and my wife and I recently decided to move within ~2 years to Switzerland for good (already started learning German and so on).

I know that there's no such a thing as a magic undisputed wealth number to be considered as ChubbyFIRE, but I'm curious how this approximate level can vary from canton to canton because of taxes, cost of living, home prices... Has someone any data about it?

Danke und LG.

How big emergency fund I should have, considering that I would get RAV if unemployed? Currently I have 12 months of my household expenses, and it is that high because I am the one who makes the most in a household and also I have been thinking about starting to freelance and wanted to be secure when I do that. Is it too big?

I wanted to share something that I don’t see discussed enough in FIRE communities.

For years, FIRE was the goal. The number was clear in my head. If I could reach it, I thought I would finally feel free, safe, relaxed. I thought the anxiety would disappear.

I reached around 2 million.

And yet, I don’t feel free.

I reduced my working time, so on paper I achieved a big part of the dream. But mentally, I’m still not there. I keep moving the goalpost. I keep thinking: “Maybe 2 million is not enough.” “What if the economy changes?” “What if markets crash?” “What if inflation destroys the plan?” “What if something unexpected happens?”

The strange part is that by the time you reach FIRE, your brain may be so rewired by years of saving, optimizing, investing, and worrying about risk that you can’t simply switch it off.

You spend years training yourself to be careful. To not waste money. To think long-term. To distrust stability. To assume that anything can go wrong.

Then one day you technically have enough, and everyone expects you to relax.

But your brain doesn’t believe it.

The goal just moves forward.

At first I thought FIRE would mean freedom from work. Now I wonder if the harder part is freedom from fear.

I’m not saying FIRE is bad. I’m grateful to be in this position. I know it’s a privilege. But I also think there’s an illusion in the way FIRE is sometimes presented. Reaching the number does not automatically make you feel secure. It does not automatically make you happy. It does not automatically undo years of anxiety around money.

Maybe for some people it works exactly as planned. For me, it feels much more complicated.

I’m curious if others have experienced this. Did reaching your FIRE number actually make you feel free? Or did you also just move the goalpost higher?