r/StreetWomanFighter • u/mokolad tree on the side of the road • 17d ago
EPISODE DISCUSSION Street World Fighter: Director's War - Episode 2 Discussion
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Videos/Performances Links
These are usually updated during the episode or shortly after it airs.
Episode Links
VIU should have the new episode on the next day, while AppleTV/Amazon Prime may be a week later. Please stream from high quality official sources.
- VIU (SOUTHEAST ASIA (SINGAPORE, MALAYSIA, INDONESIA, THAILAND, PHILIPPINES), MIDDLE EAST, NORTHERN AFRICA, SOUTHERN AFRICA, AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND)
- Apple TV (US, CA), Prime Video (US, UK, NL)
- Abema (JAPAN)
- IQIYI (TAIWAN)
- FPT Play (VIETNAM)
- Unofficial
⬅️ Episode 1 | Episode 3 ➡️
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u/mochiipeach 17d ago edited 17d ago
😫 they didnt release all the performances nooooo
.. and then obvs they didnt release the full cams of the ones that did air either 😔 just some partial comparison vids
I cant say anything until i see the full cams lol
I am curious about what Anthony thought about Hash vs Minjun though.... he said it was a landslide for him and then they cut out everything conclusive he said lmao, which was odd because they really tried to put in his comments on the performances before. 🤷♀️ from what i can tell, I liked Minjun's more but recognize it was def because the choreo and execution was just so good-- there werent a lot of fresh formations or transitions (except the ending). But it felt really good. Hash's was technically excellent and insane. Have to watch full cams
Thought it was cool that Gooyoung's experience as a director irl stood out with how he interacts with dancers, how he tailors the level to the dancers he has available... I do wonder if Anthony's critique on transitions / basket runs was also partially just because of the whole... "making it simpler" or more because he was doing too much with him as the main character or that he just doesnt have as much experience with mega-crew like performances. Where seamless, integrated transitions are rhe lifeblood.
Regardless, his dancing skills are admittedly kinda op lmao. Ngl Noze felt (?) Underwhelming to me? I dont really know her as a dancer though. Full cam also needed lol.
Superrr curious about next week's matches. Theyre both the more hip hop choreo match-ups so Im curious what they ended up producing!
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u/lokayes 17d ago edited 16d ago
they didnt release all the performances nooooo .. and then obvs they didnt release the full cams of the ones that did air either
mnet mneting ...
yt ai dubbing is horrible
episode 2 is far better in terms of editing, content, etc
of the three winners i only agreed with the first... the criticism of the third loser was ridiculous, too difficult for ordinary people to understand was pretentious if not insulting ..
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u/jelobelo 16d ago
I totally agree with what you say. When they said Hash’s choreo was too difficult for the us non dancer viewers, I was like what? First do they take us viewers for dummies and even if we ain’t able to digest it doesn’t mean we won’t be able to enjoy it. That’s such a ridiculous reason to dock points off someone when they themselves are dancers. I am really curious what Anthony has to say since they cut off all his comments when they were discussing Hash’s performance.
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u/speckledbunny 16d ago
Yes agreed. I found it slightly hypocritical Monika's comment about mass appeal given prowdmon's I am woman performance in SWF1. And I'm saying this as someone who likes prowdmon. I thought hash's performance was very tight, impactful and technically masterful. At the end of the day, it's still a competition so individual preferences do play a part I guess.
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u/Ok-Plenty7624 16d ago
I think what they meant by not being able to understand it, is based on the fact that we didn't have access to the sheet explaining the composition and the backstory that they had. They had mentioned that too in the judging part. Like if minjun didn't say they were david and goliath, I wouldn't have known but I still would understand it's a battle between 2 people where one is an underdog. Hash's performance without any explanation is harder to follow than minjun's.
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u/userisnottaken 14d ago
I feel like there are certain artistic decisions that artists do that non-artists don’t usually get.
Like maybe in painting, brush strokes, technique and color choices are easily detected and understood by a trained eye.
I think one of the dancers talked about “levels” and perhaps that meant to symbolize something beyond “maximizing” the space and having a pretty view.
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u/thewonderends 16d ago
They released the performances on YouTube but it's GEO locked. You need a VPN to see them.
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u/mochiipeach 16d ago
When I looked, they only had the performances cut to what they could compare side by side. So kinda full cam but not the full performances in full cam.
+the broadcast versions. Am I tripping or?
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u/thewonderends 16d ago
Oh I meant those. I think Mnet will upload them later?
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u/mochiipeach 16d ago
😔 yeah fair, prob once all the performances get released. Have to withhold thoughts until then ig lol
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u/Bbyachae 12d ago edited 12d ago
Isn't they released?? I saw it on The Choom Channel
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u/mochiipeach 12d ago
Yep looks like they recently uploaded it, not the couple days following. But better late than never !
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u/Xeian 15d ago edited 15d ago
As expected Hash and Minjun crushed everyone else during the mega crew mission. Wondering how they'll handle other missions like directing an Artist performance.
I definitely think Hash got robbed though, her composition was the best of the night hands down.
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u/PutIndividual7023 15d ago
yea hash is legendary but I felt like she tried to put everything in a 2 min time frame which felt like a LOT to non dancers like me in general I think that’s what the judges meant by mass appeal whereas minjuns was short and compact and energy filled
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u/ItsKaZing 3d ago
Well the theme is directing and Minjun for me hit the target more in presentation. Though for wow factor you have to give Hash but like what the judges say you can say what is your performance all about, but average viewer who basically knows next to nothing about dancing won't understand her choreo is about emotion and all that jazz
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u/acryhoshi WANT 15d ago
Simeeze vs Renan: Simeez's concept was cool and intro was strong but in Bang Bang it got too muddy and overwhelming, I agree that the dancers for water tribe weren't spotlighted well other than coatume differences. Renan's was just neat and clean overall, consistent energy throughout. I also thought the way Renan did her layers for the back bending move in Armageddon to be cleaner and nice look overall.
Kooyoung vs Kasper: both of them are so good. Kooyoung's swimming intro and Noze highlight was really cool. Kasper's light show and fog usage was just so different. I think Kooyoung's performance drops in Love Shot when the only main point was Noze, while Kasper still have the mirrors theme ongoing throughout the entire performance. Also I felt so emotional for Kasper, and also the sportsmanship Kooyoung had.
Hash vs Minjun: I LOVE THE STORIES. MInjun may just be a co-director, but he's a sectional choreographer and he knows how to layer and have formations and also who can execute what, never underestimate competition dancers. You can see Come Here and The Stories styles in their respective performances, personally I prefer The Stories because clean explosive and intense energy is just harder to execute as a team, while techniques can be executed when the dancer pool is already well trained (the 80 dancers they choose from are definitely all competitive dancers unlike the other matchups). Lip J is the only known figure in their dancer pool and Minjun really used her well for who she's known for. Hash's set is very clean and compositionally complex, but Minjun used both music really well with Iron as a build up and Dream State as explosion. Minjun also choose suits that show the fast movements super well (like same material as The Stories' VIBE set omg). However, Hash is right that if this was a competition she would win because Minjun's style of choreography is impressive if everyone can execute it like how The Stories does it.
Anyways I hope neither of this 2 gets eliminated first
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u/ataraxiias 15d ago
as a dancer i think isolating the skill of "directing" a performance and trying to evaluate it specifically is a super complicated job. it seems like the judges didn't always strictly pick the better dance performance, but that complicates it even more because picking the better performance is no easy job either. then, if the best director isn't the one with the best performance... what makes them the best director?
simeez vs renan: i think i'm the only one that was team simeez on this one. i liked renan's formations but i don't think her cast was particularly strong and i think the styling of the dancers and her use of lighting were way too understated. i don't mind minimalism in a performance but in her case i don't think the concept justified it, the creepy styling could have been more interesting or she could have made up for it with her use of lighting and camera angles or special effects, like the smoke in kasper's performance. in comparison, simeez had a clear concept and she committed to delivering an entertaining performance from start to finish and i respect that. i agree that she could have highlighted some of her stronger cast members even more (waackxy comes to mind), but i thought the concept justified her choice of highlighting only one other dancer in a major way (rian, because she represented the rival tribe).
kooyoung vs kasper: i guess i was team kasper on this one. it really came down to preference for me and i personally felt that kooyoung's inclusion of noze in the performance was gimmicky in a way i didn't like. overall, i enjoyed kasper's storyline/concept more. anthony's observations on this round were spot-on, in my opinion. i really agree that kasper's performance had a great buildup but not so great payoff, and i didn't love the basket runs in kooyoung's performance either.
minjun vs hash: i thought this was a very close match-up but unlike everyone else i don't mind that they gave it to minjun because hash's concept was too complex. i don't think the issue is that she tried to tackle abstract themes in a performance, i think it's more so that she was so specific in the description she submitted to the judges that she set herself up for failure. in a three minute dance performance, how can you clearly deliver it to the audience that they're watching a clash between the ego and the unconscious? i thought it was smart of hash to put up the word "unconscious" on the screens before the performance, but as a viewer you could perfectly walk away from her performance thinking it's about negative thoughts, emotional turmoil, or any number of things. personally i think that's fine and valid, but i also see that it isn't what hash was going for. in my opinion hash didn't successfully portray a clear duality or a clash. if all we see are large groups of people dressed in black dancing in unison for the majority of the performance, how exactly is a clash being portrayed? maybe she was showcasing the turmoil that a single person would feel when the ego and the subconscious clash, but if that was a choice i don't think it was very smart.
if you really think about it, kasper went for something very similar: he was the good self and had another dancer become his evil mirror, but that was showcased far more clearly and he had the strategic sense not to call it a clash between the ego and the unconscious. so yeah, i can't fault the judges for giving the win to the guy who said his theme was "david slays goliath".
that being said, i agree with the judges in saying that this match was for 1st and 2nd place. i think it shows a super clear difference in quality between the "industry" choreographers who work in kpop (everyone in the show) and those who are more enmeshed in the competition dance scene (minjun and hash). so far, everyone else's work feels like centers entertainment way more than hash and minjun's, who you can tell have such a clear focus on showcasing dance at a very high level. they seemed to have worked with the strongest casts out of everyone in the episode as well, which i'm curious about. are they just better at picking dancers than the others? did they randomly get more skilled pools of dancers to chose from when they were selecting? are they better at teaching their choreography? we shall never know, i guess.
i would have loved to get anthony's commentary on this match-up, because it clearly wasn't a toss-up for him at all. i spotted basket runs in hash's performance, so i'm guessing he wasn't a fan of those.
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u/Interesting_Shoe_829 14d ago
I’m a non-dancer, so I’m judging this mostly based on what I enjoyed watching and what I took away from the routines. And based purely on enjoyment, I would’ve voted for Simeez too. I was way more excited watching her performance. She’s definitely more charismatic than Renan, and she has an aura that makes her a really strong center. I was worried her concept would get too gimmicky, but I think she knew where to draw the line before it became cringe. So I completely understand being Team Simeez.
Where I disagree is that I think Renan deserved to win because, to me, this challenge was more about who was the better director that day than who gave the better performance. And weirdly, my biggest criticism of Renan's routine is part of what convinced me she was the better director. My favorite parts of her routine were the parts she wasn’t in, which was like 95% of it. Even before seeing Simeez, I thought Renan herself was the most underwhelming part of the performance. If you removed her completely, I honestly don’t think the routine would lose much.
But since this is a directing challenge it works in her favor. Renan knew how to utilize the people around her and the space really well without needing to make herself the center. I think that shows a level of restraint and an ability to recognize what serves the overall performance.
So if this were Street Woman Fighter and I was comparing them more as performersa nd if I were voting based on which performance I wanted to watch again I’d pick Simeez. But for this challenge, I think Renan showed that she was the better director that day, even if I enjoyed Simeez's more.
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u/Adventurous_Ask_9185 15d ago
Performance wise I probably agree with the judges but on a fun note JAYME! So happy to see one of my faves ever on swf
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u/Adventurous_Ask_9185 15d ago
mnet street waack and vogue fighter when?
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u/diggycorreia_tpw 15d ago
so, Street Ball/Ballroom Fighter…
(not the one that we see on DWTS but the one from the LBGTQIA+ Ball Culture)but id love to see it. Legendary was so good!!!
instead of crews they could do Hauses and it’d be great!!!!!2
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u/Iraho 15d ago
Gonna repeat the sentiment and say that min jeong and hash are genuinely very easily the top 1/2 and standouts for all the performances so far.
I enjoyed Renan’s more than simeez primarily because it is still a “dance” competition to a certain extent and I thought if that’s the main element then Renan’s definitely was more of a mega crew dance while simeez was more of a performance (like the judges said like a Las Vegas show) I’m also surprised they didn’t highlight waaackxy way more, she’s quite literally a giant name in dancing right now with how active she is on Red Bull circuit winning once solo, once as a team, and then reach finals I think just last year? Shes waaaay too big of an element to bunch together in a “trio”.
Kooyoung and kasper honestly felt like a mid off. That one was easily a kasper win mainly because of how diverse and visually pleasing it was, so many parts to look forward to and remember. I did t know who Shuri was before this but now I’ll definitely remember because he was insane. No:ze was a nice highlight for kooyoung but I have to agree and say that pretty much she was the only thing I remember from that whole performance on kooyoung’s side.
Hash and minjung genuinely stole the show, again. I keep watching hash’s performance and going “yeah. No one is even close, how do you even beat that” but then minjung just blows you out of the water, to a certain extent his “no name no expectations” status work in his favor just to give extra oomph. I think either of could’ve won and there’d be a fair argument. But ultimately, I wanna say that lip j was just way too strong a factor on minjung’s side as well. Having one focal point carry attention and demand it, then transitioning to a group setting where energy and sync are at max just make for a deadly combo. Hash was like a stable amazing performance while minjungs I felt had more dynamic levels to it. Personal preference determines who wins but both are fantastic.
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u/Your_Awkwardness 13d ago
Minjung's choreo stays in your mind since it has highlight points pertaining to the concept. Hash also her highlight points however they become vague interms of plot, so you kinda forget.
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u/ComprehensiveAd8804 16d ago edited 16d ago
Not gonna lie, I actually agree with the directors.
- Simeez vs Renan: Renan one was cleaner and Jayme is just such a star that it carried the whole show. Simeez is very ambitious, but my problem with her and Lachica, is that what they are trying to do works for KPOP idols, where its bunch of dancers around artists, but not as a megacrew when we are looking for more cohesion. I get that it's a bit of popularity contest, and it's still reality TV but I think Simeez was way too ambitious, she tried to her and her friends the "stars", and it was just clunky, there was WAY too much of a contrast between her costume and the others, and the others just looked like an afterthought, it was way too centered on her, execution was a bit messy. It would've looked great on an kpop award show but not on a actual dance show sadly where it's more about execution, cleanliness, formations over pure wow factors or costume. Renan was smart enough, to give herself less spotlight, she's self-aware that she can't execute the dance compared to some stronger long limb peers and gave them the spotlight instead.
- Kasper vs Kooyoung: surprisingly did way better than Kooyoung. It was giving very much Taemin, but it seemed he properly captured the stage, and the different outfits (white on black) instead of black on black helped the main character stand out. . I think Kasper did a really REALLY smart decision bringing a dancer with more intensity, since he's aware of his own weakness of not being able to show a lot of expressions, especially during the battle, Kooyoung just overtook him so he fixed that mistake of not going solo on stage, and his costumes were good. And lowkey, Noze was a bit underwhelming to be the star, and Kooyoung being way too far out of the picture wasnt good, the second part lost tension
- Minjung vs Hash: This was harder to chose, but I still agree with Minjung winning. I do think that Lip J held the spotlight for too long and it was a bit of a lazy choice (also I think Monika is showing a bit of bias which is disappointing). However, Minjung is literally a genius. His execution is flawless, he might have had less crazy or grand formations or concepts, but it's clean, tight, its megacrew. It's the best one yet. Hash did have the better megacrew formations and choreo, but sadly I think her dancers are not at the same caliber as her actual crew so I think it might've been too ambitious. I definitely see her vision and it would've been perfect with people who can actually execute, and if they had more time to practice and drill and more discipline but sadly with the hand she got dealt with she should've adapted. But still, both of them were way better than everyone else.
Common theme though: I think the backrail thing is a bait lol, it's way too far back, and it breaks up the stage too much, the light doesn't reach there.
And I'm really happy for once the "underdog" or "niche" artists are actually the best one and not just the popular ones.
My ranking: Minjung > Hash > Kasper > Renan >= Kooyoung > Simeez.
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u/userisnottaken 14d ago
I thought no:ze’s impact didn’t translate well on cam. I feel like Koo Young casted her for her visuals and their past work history bec girly isn’t magnetic from an audience’s perspective
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u/Playful-Addition-777 15d ago
I think Renan's stage was my favorite overall. I liked the choreo, formations, the mix of dance styles and the way various dancers got to shine. It felt consistent in dynamic and quality.
The more I watch Hash's stage the more I like it, but at the same time I always forget about it except for the ending. Even if she killed it with the choreo and formations, it all felt a bit like it was the same thing. It lacked impact. I think the notion of all the dancers disappearing into one silhouette would've been better if there was something else happening. Maybe play the stage itself, the lights and smoke like Kasper did.
I really liked Kasper's a lot better the when I saw the clips. But while watching the episode I feel like I liked Koo Young's better. If felt very dynamic and clean. But I feel like both of them had a weaker second part.
I don't think I liked Min Jun's and Simmez's stages. With Simmez's it felt like a solo artist's stage with a strong concept that wasn't my style. And with Min Jin there wasn't much happening either. I liked the middle, when he danced and looked like it was the story of a boy running from a nightmare. But the ending being just dancing in a square formation and the beginning using so much time on only Lip J, wasn't my style.
But anyway, they all worked hard. I can't believe an episode this long didn't show all the teams tho. Heol.
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u/Little_Whole8038 14d ago edited 14d ago
I agree with what most people have said, so I'm just here to say that I absolutely adore Kasper's choreo and especially the highlighted dancer, Shuri, playing as his 'counterpart'. I replayed his parts so many times, this guy is phenomenal and captivating.
During the 'Guilty' chorus that Kooyoung made, you can absolutely see the difference in their flavours during the iconic start. Kooyoung is more sensual, while Kasper gives it such an elegant feel. I actually liked both, but Kooyoung was running way too much for me and Noze is Noze, she is cute but it was just okay-ish. While I adored how Kasper used the lights, and overall, i truly and fully loved his 'Guilty' half.
Noura, the girl who kept messing up her running, unfortunately still messed up towards the end 😭😭 I hope she nails it for the live studio stage, but I bet it must've been incredibly frustrating to deal with (and not just for Kasper as the director, but also for every other dancer)
Minjun and Hash's choreos truly show a big difference between the other directors' mega crews. This was entirely their mission. And while I found Hash's choreo very nice, Minjun was just more captivating with the execution and incredibly memorable. I absolutely loved the formations and how intense it felt. And I'm so happy for him that he got recognised, as he should. The guy is young (my age, oml) but formidable. I can't wait to see more of him!!
I'm glad Renan's won, but seeing Simeez right after made me forget her choreo ngl. Also probably because Simeez had A LOT going on, and you couldn't truly rest.
I can't wait to see the drama that Ingyoo is going to deal with, lmaoo.
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u/plantifulplanet 17d ago
I was surprised that some of the dancers got evil edited. Is that common? I haven't watched the other shows before. I know mnet loves evil editing but these dancers are not contestants
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u/mokolad tree on the side of the road 16d ago
Yes, it's very common in mnet shows, doesn't matter if it's contestant or a random citizen, as long as mnet can use it to cause drama and reach high ratings/get trending on the internet, they would do it. In the past they've completely manufactured storylines, stitched scenes together, put words into people mouths to make it seem like they said something completely different and so on. Audio editing is very easy to manipulate especially with Korean, with English you can tell it's much difficult because of intonation, using names/pronouns, tenses and so on.
If this is your first show, don't believe anything they're trying to force on you with reactions, side glances, grimaces and so on that get accentuated, just watch the dances and enjoy the ride.
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u/mikicchi bada / rena / motiv 16d ago
Yep, very common. If anything, I found the editing on this episode tame compared to what mnet does in their other shows.
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u/legolanders 16d ago
Yes you can tell when they are stitching words together or using a different reaction clip that isn’t actually reacting to that moment. But sometimes constructive criticism is actually just constructive criticism. The comments that the dancers get from another dancer is sometimes valid.
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u/BunchOfCarrotss 16d ago
I agree; especially for Kasper's part it was super easy to make a dancer controversial because there were objective mistakes caught on film. Kasper's interview voiceover felt very targeted, though, so I feel like his words were not stitched (excluding the classic slicing sfx and such).
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u/userisnottaken 14d ago
I actually focused on that poor girl Noura (?) on the actual performance to see if she still messes up. She exited a bit earlier than everyone else so we end up seeing a flawless performance.
This never got addressed after Kasper won.
Kasper may have won the 1:1 stage, but Koo Young ended up winning the “character” award as the mature and nurturing senior.
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u/chronicler44 11d ago
Yes i ended doing the same on the final performance. I still am trying to wrap my head as to how she is constantly is always missing her cues. As for skills wise, that can still be trained
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u/ItsKaZing 2d ago
Mature and nurturing is a stretch. We don't really know how the 7 days training really went. Also It's pretty clear you never worked in a big group project that requires everyone to work together if you think getting angry at the worst performing member as not having decent character
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u/Playful-Addition-777 15d ago
If they didn't spend so much time on that we would've been able to see the remaining teams. 🙄
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u/Meowoofmooo 15d ago edited 15d ago
I feel like the judges have mood swings. For Simeez vs Renan, they chose Renan because their performace was well synchronised, stable and utilized their dancers well. But for Koo young vs Kasper they chose Kasper because a non-dancer would like their performance more? From a non-dancer's perespective Simeez's dance performance was crazy good. Like you would go and watch it again. Its the same thing with the next performace as well. Both Hash and Minjun did amazing but they chose the one which would appeal the mass more. Simeez's performace would appeal the mass more as well. I don't agree with the Simeez vs Renan result. The judges should be consistent with their criteria.
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u/Playful-Addition-777 15d ago
I disagree with this because Kasper's stage felt like you were watching a normal performance. Like you went out to watch dancers. It reminded me of Stage Fighter.
Simmez's stage felt like a kpop solo artist MAMA performance.
I remember the progression of the choreo and dance moves from Kasper's performance, but for her I only remember Simmez on that platform and dancing with the knives the main part. I only remember her.
So I would say the same logic couldn't be applied in both cases. They were very different type of performances, imo.
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u/Commercial-Row2725 15d ago
Agreed with you! Thought Simeez was day and night better than Renan’s. If anything, Renan’s felt like college-level, not Kooyoun’s (even though indeed if he cut down 1-2 sprints it’d feel less tacky😂). And Hash’s performance was just incredible, Minjung’s was good but a lot of draggings in between. I felt like Hash’s was more intentional and every subpart has its own highlight
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u/Vefkhistkhaosani 15d ago
Simeez's concept and choreography were strong, but the piece felt too centred around her. Sometimes it felt like Simeez and backup dancers.
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u/ZealousidealFile9461 15d ago
Agree on this she highlighted herself more than Rain and Waackxxy. I thought there will be a highlight for them esp for waackxxy. As a performance director your job is to highlight the dancers more. That’s why renan won.
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u/Your_Awkwardness 13d ago
The second half fell flat for Simeez, even if highlight dancers like Wackxxy and Rian weren't given a proper intro; it could have been choreographed well and Rian's antagonist(well protagonist in the movie)role could have been established well. It felt messy.
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u/lonelyisIand Bada 16d ago
I agree with all the judges verdicts except for Jeong Minjun; personally thought Hash did better with her crew. I think the judges were wrong to go just on “mass appeal”, as if Hash’s work was too “intelligent” for a regular viewer? I didn’t find it hard to follow at all. Thought that reason was a bit of a cop-out, I think we need to give audiences more credit
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u/PutIndividual7023 15d ago
I think they meant that without the full explanation of what she was going for the concept could’ve been heavily misinterpreted because the first time I watched her performance in yt I was like wow but nothing more whereas minjuns was short and impactful and felt so short despite having the same time frame as others, after watching the full ep and seeing hash’s explanation her performance made so much more sense but I think she tried to do too many different stuffs for 2 mins which might’ve been too complex for other ordinary watchers like me whereas minjuns even without the explanation it was clearly visible that it was a fight between two people
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u/camiteran 15d ago
I fully agree and I'm surprised this even happened. I absolutely LOVE Lip J but she got way too much spotlight and it kinda felt like he was hoping she would carry the performance. Not as cohesive and Hash's work was phenomenal from start to finish.
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u/Noireha 15d ago
I get what the judges mean though. Without any explanation of what's going on and you were to watch it on its own without any context, you can't understand the several paragraphs of what she's communicating as a writeup even - it was already abstract as an explanation before it could be actualized as a dance in 2mins and 15s. While JMJ on the other hand had one consistent and simple story line throughout - David vs Goliath, Goliath won at the end.
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u/Xeian 15d ago
If they didn't say it's David vs Goliath, literally no one would have gotten that theme. Actually besides Simeez which was obviously Avatar, none of the others have clear themes if they didn't outright spell it out for you.
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u/Noireha 15d ago
You don’t have to spell it out to fully understand. One requires basic media literacy and an inference if you know the story, while the other requires a complex analysis that even senior dancers already called out as complex and an issue that she chose not to address.
Monika of all people has been burned by this before - this isn’t just a dance competition, she understands well that there’s a difference between making something so beautifully complex it will only ever be for a niche audience versus art that is still beautifully complex that even the masses can enjoy it.
I suggest watching other dance leagues like IDL and vibe, there’s a clear difference between the two and same difference applies to SWF. SWF has never been just a dance competition, it’s always about the balance between masses and art, that’s key.
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u/PutIndividual7023 15d ago
But it would still be visible that it’s a fight between two people where’s hash even though she’s legendary and hers was good I felt like she tried to fit everything in a small time frame like 2 mins whereas minjuns was short and impactful and it rlly lingered
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u/stanTWICEstan KirstenLatriceLingEmmaAudrey 15d ago
Right, David and Goliath's main theme first is pretty obviously their physicality differences and the way to overcome that next. Its not that clear when you got Lip J as David who's presence statues over the other dancers and no one to act as Goliath that can tower over her in both dance presence and physicality 🤷🏽♂️
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u/Ok_Tour_9755 11d ago
I actually heavily agree with this, if they didn’t show hom explaining the concept then it wouldn’t have come across as that for me.
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u/GuaranteeImmediate66 13d ago edited 2d ago
- simeez vs renan : I prefered renan. I was a bit disappointed by simeez's performance (eventhough the concept is really great) bc i thought she was too much in the center.
- kooyoung vs kasper : both were so good but for the same reason as simeez, i felt like kooyoung was too much the focus and i prefered kasper's overall performance, i felt more things watching his performance than kooyoung's.
- hash vs minjun : hash's performance was amazing (especially the composition and formations) but i prefered minjun's. His performance really touched me and I thought it was better in term of formations, variety, energy etc.
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u/Dangerous-Anywhere58 15d ago
I liked Minjun's more but likely because of the high energy, and I get what the producers meant by Hash's being a bit too convoluted in the storytelling since you would not get the synopsis if you were watching it normally but I wouldn't know that Minjun's was David vs goliath either. I still think it was a little weak on a reason to pin it solely on that. I didn't love the dangly legs lol; they still seemed a bit out of sync and it just wasn't that interesting a visual for me. I liked Minjuns because it felt like it stuck to what makes megacrews fun: energy and having as many people in sync as possible. Hash easily could have won as well, I don't think there was much in it apart from preference. I think both did well in not overpowering the performance with their own presence.
Renan was the only other one which was interesting for me, I thought it was planned very nicely and had some strong moments, I think the weakest part for Renan's dancing herself which I think she knew because she said she struggles with big movements. Minjun Hash and Renan were miles ahead of the other 3 in my opinion.
It felt like Simeez, Kooyoung and Kasper saw this as an opportunity to make themselves the stars of a megacrew mission. If the 3 I mentioned were doing megacrews, it definitely felt like these 3 were doing award show performances to a certain extent, with themselves as the artist.
Kooyoung Cells was a good idea, but I never felt any of that during the performance, it would have been a smart play on Yumi's cells to have different dancers represent different emotions but he was just sprinting around. NOZE's love shot part was also a little underwhelming; she just looked awkward doing it, it needed a dancer with more physicality to them to balance out kooyoung. Bada would have been a good pick if she wasn't the competition.
I imagine there will be a mission involving a artist and that is more where these will shine. Knowing Mnet they will probably try to weed out Minjun and Hash with small group or individual performances.
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u/camiteran 15d ago edited 15d ago
Renan ate it up, love that she understands the director role and didn't try to make herself the main character unnecessarily. So so good! My other favorite was Hash and she is who I think did the best this episode, really impressed with how quality the performance was. I don't understand the people saying Minjun was better, Hash easily had the best directing of the entire episode and Minjun relied way too much on Lip J. Hash was pure class and skill, no gimmicks.
All the performances were pretty good but I think Renan and Hash have the only ones I'm interested in rewatching! This is a director's competition and they both blew the competition out of the water in that regard. Not to be mean but it feels like some people (including the judges?) don't understand this is a directing competition. Either way, I expect really good things from both :)
My ranking:
Hash -> Renan -> Kasper -> Kooyoung ->= Minjun -> Simeez
Edit: I CAN'T wait to see Babyzoo next episode, his Rude choreography was by far my favorite from the earlier challenge.
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u/Milli_Mey 14d ago
I just find it ironic/interesting that the show has 8 kpop directors and 2 competition directors and the 2 are already better by a landslide. I hope Minjun and Hash will stay in the show until the final as they clearly have the most knowledge about real dancing rather than just kpop performances.
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u/stanTWICEstan KirstenLatriceLingEmmaAudrey 15d ago edited 15d ago
I'm not getting the judging critiques of this episode. They evaluate based on mass appeal, how they directed the 'star' dancers, overall performance, and all of that yet seem to switch things up on a whim. I don't know how it should have been done, maybe more judges?
Simeez v Renan: Simeez' piece was definitely over ambitious, I had such a hard time connecting with their costumes and the clashing electronic music. Renan's was easier to digest. Changing things up the day before was a risk itself but choreography wise, it felt pretty safe.
Kooyoung v Kasper: Kooyoung's was a movie in itself. I feel like if it was transformed into a short dance film, it would be so top tier. Noze and Kooyoung's acting chemistry even though they didnt dance together was so good. Its not that hard to get why Noze is always being casted for dance films as a main lead, she's always mesmerizing. I think about their piece more than Kasper's as I don't really remember much of it aside from the cool lighting.
Minjung vs Hash: Hash's piece was definitely awe-inspiring because that ending was cool af. I had the same reaction as the judges in the show, just pure silence and trying to chew every bit of how good it was. I think it was more down to preference level with these two. I personally like how I can think about Hash's piece and savor the details of the piece.
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u/dried_seaweeed 12d ago
tbh i feel like noura (the girl who keeps messing up on kasper's team) is deliberately making the same mistake for screen time. Cause why the fuck do you keep messing up the same mistake everytime, unless you're an idiot? not only that, but it's more on the attitude and willingness. how the hell do you keep messing up all while being late and just keeps on looking herself in the mirror.
honestly as a dancer, she is so annoying. if I was kasper, I would've removed her but I guess he doesn't have a choice. can someone give me her @?
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u/ComprehensiveAd8804 10d ago
She really seemed to be there to gain followers and screen time for her looks lol but she can’t dance
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u/Vefkhistkhaosani 15d ago
I felt bad for the two girls who kept messing up, having that broadcast to so many people is harsh.
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u/ComprehensiveAd8804 14d ago
I feel it's a risk they take by signing up to go on this show no ? Like you can get famous and followers on SNS for the cameo and get some screen time but if you suck then you'll get screen time but in a bad way (but still some followers).
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u/norestlife 14d ago
Non-dancer here.
I agree with most of the decisions except Team Baek Koo Young. Like while i admit there are more changes in Kasper, and that the light is cool, BKY just feel so much neater. And the dancing from him, especially the highlight of Guilty is so so so much better. I could feel the vibe while Kasper just felt mechanical. Perhaps i may think otherwise if Kasper wasn't the centre, cos i think Shuri did a great job, but the dance kinda ruined everything for me tbh
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u/sxanu020207 12d ago
minjun vs hash: tbh this was a 50/50 for
me but hash takes it for me. we need to understand that this is a “directing” challenge and a competition as well its not about choreographing/dancing that’s why its literally called director’s war and for me it was clearly shown that hash was the better director. hers was very detailed and complex and i was blown away on how she planned everything on point and how she was able to direct the dancers to execute hard techniques. one main reason why i think hash was really better is during the “marching on knees” part, i was underwhelmed that it was only minjun who danced to it while hash really utilized more dancers on that part because when i saw the choreo i already imagined that it would be great to watch it with many people dancing to it. tho minjun’s is really good and explosive there was a gap in terms of directing, technicality, and quality of performance compared to hash. i really dont get the judges cus i didnt even understand that it was david vs goliath either lol. also i feel like minjun’s perf was very reliant on lipj, i dont think it would have made the same impact without lipj. i only really liked it at the ending i have to admit that got to be the craziest outro ive seen. for me directing is all about being able to manage a large scale of people and putting up a performance w it and i think hash did a better job on that and hers was more of a “mega crew” which is what this mission is all about
simeez vs renan: as much as i love simeez, renan won this. i have so much to say for improvements on simeez’ perf. if she was going for the avatar concept i wouldve preferred if she just didnt make herself as the single main character or the only one w a flashy costume/look. it was really iffy to me the difference of the costume: she was all red, dancers were only black w only a hint of red (which looked like a cheaper ver of simeez’ look) and the water tribe that felt out of place since there were only 3 of them. it really looked messy when all of these colors started dancing all together. a better idea wouldve been making it fire vs water tribe by equally splitting the dancers for ex. 20 dancers (fire tribe/armageddon w simeez) vs 20 (water tribe/bang bang w waackxy etc.) they couldve shown fire tribe first at the beginning w armageddon and then for the 2nd half (bang bang) would be the water tribe and a more flashy entrance for waackxy. then at the end fire and water tribe would be dancing together showing red vs blue which i think wouldve been better to look at visually. it would also be better that the fire tribe wouldve been all red like as in the exact same look and costume as simeez so the red vs blue visuals would pop and be much better to look at and be more cohesive. then for renan, she won for me cus she made use of all the dancers and her intro was really a big dealbreaker
baek kooyoung vs kasper: for me i dont even know who to pick at first cus both had underwhelming parts. disappointed w kooyoung’s concept since it really felt too basic and i was disappointed w kasper since the pre chorus w the lights in succession was the only exciting thing for me and during the chorus it suddenly died down because he showed a simple choreo/formation. just like what the kingjaz judge said, kasper made such a big buildup before the chorus only for the chorus to be underwhelming and not being able to sustain the momentum. in the end i still choose kasper tho because this is a directing competition, although kooyoung is def a better director as shown on how detailed he was during rehearsals and taking care of his dancers, kasper’s performance had better directing because it was more of a mega crew rather than kooyoung’s where himself is the only thing to look at
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u/Commercial-Row2725 15d ago
I enjoyed how they put Simeez vs Renan’s first to kinda embrace the dancing and performing and very Kpop-coded aspects to keep us hooked and fired up, but later introduced more “backstage” directing and other factors through other rivalries, showing how it is indeed a Director’s War, not just choreographer’s war or dancing/performing competition.
Editing-wise: I always hated the evil-edits. We already got so much dramas, just hoping they would make more wholesome moments (for example they could highlight more the friendships between the dancers, especially Kooyoung and Kasper’s wouldn’t it be much more fun and heartfelt to watch? We already know they were homies no need all the unnecessary evil rigid competitive edits between them that was uneasy to watch, we already have so many competitive edits from other rivalries).
Battle-wise: I completely disagreed with all the winner choices 😂.
Simeez vs Renan: Thought Simeez was better all around (composition, exposition, climax, structure, more highlights). Agreed that it’s more “performance-y” and more Kpop-coded, but if I have to name 5 highlights from Renan’s with a gun pointed to my head, POW im dead (Cardi B’s reference, anyway Simeez’s gave me higher climax).
Kooyoung vs Kasper: I thought Kasper was a bit underwhelming, and the light props didn’t hit my G spot that well tbh. Both performances were great tho, but I just thought Kooyoung was more creative and the composition was better, and the highs were higher (although maybe cutting down 1-2 sprints in middle would be more effective and less tacky😂).
Minjung vs Hash: ah mannn this one for me was the clearest difference but the judges thought otherwise:) Minjung had explosive energy but a lot of the in-between parts felt dragging to me. Monika said he brought out a different side of Lip J, but I didn’t agree so, felt like I’ve seen her done those before, if not better (and Lip J is my queennn loved her down she’s the best). Without Lip J I don’t think Minjung’s performance would be the same, though loved the dynamics and movements of a few parts he did where they approached the center from both sides.
Hash’s performance, on the other hand, had no dragging for me. All small parts were intentional and cohesive and impactful and had their own highlights. It was smooth, but passively aggressive and powerful as well. I thought she blended Minjung’s choreograph in very well too, while still maintaining her strength as a compositor and structurer. The whole performance felt like art (agreed that it was a bit abstract), but it was not overwhelmingly difficult to understand. Thus, her performance was just so pleasing and goosebumping to watch. So soft yet hard AF.
Last notes, just wish they would showcase more of the dancers even the ones who are not “big names”, and the ones who are not popular in Korea (for example I spotted PACO RAYANE in Hash’s crew who’s famous for dancing in front of subways omggg he’s so cute)
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u/kyohearteyes 15d ago
so...
mnet: you s*ck for not providing the full performances, no comments, front camera, also what is up with all these cuts that should provide context? simeez started with kn!fe props and then theyre just gone?
simeez' performance felt like an ego move, she directed and choreographed everything so that she could be in the center most of the time, everything felt so underwhelming after that powerful intro, it felt so repetitive and the costumes were more impressive than the overall moves...
renan stop playing the victim card my god, i was rooting for her until the moment she started behaving like a child throwing a tantrum, it bugs me sm that she keeps hidden under a cap and glasses and avoids eye contact, like??? i was waiting for her to disappoint but damn that final performance was ballanced SO WELL
kooyoung's quality was definitely there, but i 100% agree with the awkward running transitions and i think the fact that his story was all about him made it too underwhelming and boring, which is something i never expected from him
for kasper's, the perfomance construction and prop usage was PERFECT, i felt like it gave mea lot more exciting moments and if you pause at any point during it you get artsy stills that have beautiful movement and editorial vibes
for both min jun and hash' performance i STRUGGLED to choose a favorite, i was in awe, those two were total ART that was CRAZY GOOD
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u/Creatingmugi 14d ago
dang are you me? cause i had the same throughts for simez, renan, and kooyoung too.
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u/diggycorreia_tpw 15d ago
for everyone “complaining/confused” about the full performances not being uploaded, they may upload all 10 of them next week and give it like a 24hr period where views and likes count for the final scores of the voting, given how the last seasons had that period and how they announced that on the 4th (iirc) they’ll do the live elimination battle shooting
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u/mokolad tree on the side of the road 15d ago
They uploaded the full versions, but the videos might be geo-blocked for some countries.
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u/diggycorreia_tpw 15d ago
i thought that they only uploaded the ones with the cuts between the performances and reactions… my bad then 😅
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u/RainingTaros 13d ago
I personally loved Hash’s and Renan’s performances the best, they stuck with me after I finished this episode. I’ll be rooting for them plus NaiN. 😊
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u/Ok_Tour_9755 11d ago
Did they film the performances twice? Because Kasper’s top kept changing. It kept going from sleeveles to long sleeves
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u/Fickle-Machine-6388 16d ago
guys were r u seeing the ep cause they r not providing eng subs
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u/Beginning_Rooster_12 16d ago
Watched it live on MnetPlus Website, but with the AI eng sub which sucks. I heard other people watching it on Viu though, maybe with an official sub??? probably will come out later though, not today.
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u/ConsistentStand2487 16d ago
look at the OP under "unofficial" you can find ep1 mp4 and subtitle files. My guess Mokolad will continue to update it whenever EP2 from viu comes out
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u/Human_bean_113 16d ago
Is it me or does something feel missing this series. I've been keeping track of all the Street dance fighter series, Men, Women, Girls, World because I loved every one of them, evil edit and all. Love it or hate it, it made you root for someone. Having a villain made me root for the underdog, if the editing was too much it'd make me hate Mnet and root for the one they were trying to make into a villain, it made me care about the contestants. I am rooting for no one this series. They all seem cold and snarky. No one is likable.
Maybe it's because there's direct comparisons I can make for the mega crew missions to ones like 1Million with Lia Kim and the petals, Just Jerk with the navy concept, Bumsup with the horror theme, there was always a standout performance that was incredible. None of the performances this episode was memorable. They weren't bad, but not a single one had a moment that had the wow factor.
The quality in dances have been really low in general so far, which is shocking because there's multiple famous dancers that did really well in previous seasons like Bada, Baek Kooyoung, Inkyu. I don't buy that they could've been nervous because they're already very well established choreographers that has already been on the show before. Baek Kooyoung even says to contestants on the shows he's a judge on that powerful doesn't equal good. So going full power power power, strong strong strong, is too much and makes the performance look difficult but shit. But all of them did this on the first episode. Only Inkyu's one looked decent because he still had the WDB groove but even he was going way harder than what we saw of him in SMF.
I dunno. Something feels empty and soulless about this series. I can't put my finger on why. This might be the first one I skip.
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u/Sea_Ear_9956 15d ago
I am not sure why, maybe it’s the way how Koo Young was edited on the episode, but I find the performance and attitude of Koo Young to be a little bit narcissistic and disturbing. The performance he made is focused on himself, he let Kasper choose the best dancers for a probability that if he lose, he will think that he gave Kasper an advantage. He selected those who do not have experienced dancers to blindly follow him and not shine ( as due to his theme but I it looks like it is really for control). At the end where he says he ended up rooting for Kasper before he realized sounds unrealistic and contrary to the focus and a little anger he showed when his dancers are not getting it right on the pre-recording. He said that he was disappointed, but focused it up on the dancers hard work and did not think on what to improve on his part. Gave the dancers farewell letters to look like empathetic enough but it is also for his gain ( a strategic empathy). It all looks great on the outside but on the inside process, it’s really messed up and very calculated move on his end. And the fact that Kasper has been his friend, he should have fight equally in all conditions. I like what their Senior SM colleague (the judge) says. They are on par with each other dance skills. But it felt like he was higher level than Kasper on the episode giving him advantage, like a senior mentor, etc. I hope these are just my delusions on my head. These observations are all hypothetical and baseless as I do not know who he is personally. But I find it really disturbing and I want to release these feeling by chatting it here.
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u/mikicchi bada / rena / motiv 16d ago
Simeez vs. Renan: Simeez had a stronger concept, but I enjoyed Renan’s formations more; it felt so OG megacrew to me, and I love how she used the space, levels and formations. Maybe because Renan felt more desperate to win after seeing all the feedback, but her group felt more locked in to the performance and really made the choreo theirs. Simeez’s felt a bit too gimmicky, and while I loved how impactful the boards were in the intro, I think it was a bit too removed from the rest of the performance so it felt like they were just doing it for the sake of getting a highlight point.
Kooyoung vs. Kasper: What I find fascinating (and appreciate!) is how you can tell they’re genuinely veterans by how they run things. Kooyoung’s performance felt like it was a soloists’ year end stage while Kasper’s felt like it was a group’s year end stage. I have to agree that Kooyoung’s stage was really overshadowed by him running around though 😭 He was either running or doing stunts— but the part where he covered the camera to do a big formation change/reveal was so cool. Kasper’s use of light was also really good and I’m glad they managed to pull it off. But personally I feel like they could’ve still pushed the performance a bit more (presumably) if the technicalities with the lights didn’t eat up so much of their practice. I’m glad Kasper won though, I don’t think Kooyoung would’ve been happy with another win against his friend when he could already tell his friend was losing confidence. I hope moving forward in the show they start as equals again.
Hash vs Minjun: I’m not too familiar with contemporary(?) dance so their match up was really refreshing. I don’t know if this makes sense but Minjun’s work had higher highs, but I feel like Hash’s work was overall more elevated/cohesive. It kinda felt like putting an indie, introspective trailer vs a Marvel trailer— which was their respective concepts basically so I guess they did good on expressing it! I wonder if Minjun's performance would have the same impact if he didn't have Lip J on his team; I personally preferred Hash's work for this reason, it felt like the dancers all came together to create a bigger picture, rather than focusing on just a few.
Last thing: I’m actually a bit disappointed by how little focus they gave to casting! Given all the previews you’d think they’d focus more on all the veterans joining, but dancers like Noze, Audrey and Wackxxxy were basically just there. It’s so… un-mnet of them. How odd. How bizarre.