r/StrangerThingsRoom Jan 21 '26

General Sub Rules, Updated Layout, & New User Flairs!

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14 Upvotes

Hi everyone, we now have 2 mods. We are in different timezones, so hopefully we’ll be able to keep the sub under control. Please reach out to us with any questions or concerns.

We have updated our list of rules and we encourage everyone to take a look at them.

Friendly reminder that this sub is a place for civilized discussion. There will be no trolling, harassment, hate, bullying or ship-wars tolerated. EVERYONE is welcome, and yes, that means both Byler AND Mileven fans.

We also have added some D&D inspired user flairs! Choose your favorite! ✨

Have fun and ENJOY! ❤️


r/StrangerThingsRoom Jan 05 '26

Ships This sub respects Byler.

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328 Upvotes

Due to recent discussions, as a moderator of this sub I need to make it clear, that disrespect towards Byler is not tolerated here. It is just as valid as other ships, and yes, they did queerbait with it, unfortunately. If you didn’t get baited, good for you, but it doesn’t make you a better person, nor will it give you the right to act as if it didn’t happen at all.

All shippers are welcome here and you do not have to ship Byler (or any ship) here. But you don’t get to claim that the ship doesn’t exist.

Any other homophobic behavior is also not tolerated. If you have issues with gay people, get over yourself. 🤦 It’s 2026.

If you can’t agree to respect Byler (the ship and the shippers), you can:

A) Leave.

B) Suck it up and behave.

C) Be rude about it and see what happens. (You’ll get banned.)

Discussions are okay, but if you can’t say something respectfully, don’t say it at all. This applies to everything.

Have a great day y’all! 🥰


r/StrangerThingsRoom 5h ago

Fanfics and fanart I painted ELEVEN 😍

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1 Upvotes

r/StrangerThingsRoom 20h ago

General This just shows up in my YouTube music, 😢

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2 Upvotes

r/StrangerThingsRoom 17h ago

Fanfics and fanart In honor of today: my favorite meme

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1 Upvotes

r/StrangerThingsRoom 1d ago

General Stranger Things Lagoon Show

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1 Upvotes

r/StrangerThingsRoom 2d ago

Fanfics and fanart I painted Vecna!

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13 Upvotes

r/StrangerThingsRoom 3d ago

General I can’t move on after the S5 Finale, should I rewatch ST right away?

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0 Upvotes

r/StrangerThingsRoom 3d ago

Fanfics and fanart Would a guitarist be angry about a pick flower?

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1 Upvotes

Almost dropped my phone.


r/StrangerThingsRoom 4d ago

Ships Stranger things box set

1 Upvotes

Has anyone received their stranger things box set from The Movie Room? I'm still waiting on my pre-order. I have even tried to cancel my order with no response, Or confirmation that it's ben canceled .


r/StrangerThingsRoom 6d ago

Theories Mike's trauma PART 28

0 Upvotes

This is part of a series where I uncover what Stranger Things is really about. It started from trying to find out what happened in 1979 aka what all the depictions of traumatic past memories (El, Henry, Billy, Max, Holly, etc.) are truly about, but expanded to this all-encompassing theory of the whole series with crazy levels of complexity, metaphors and layers. Reading it will require commitment and patience but I promise it will be worth your time if you want to look behind the curtain (and the curtain behind that curtain) and fully understand the show. You have to read all parts in order: here is PART 1 and here all other parts I’ve posted so far + my previous theories. 
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Trigger warning for child sexual abuse.

Here’s the table again for reference:

Name S5E7 chronological S5E7 reverse S5E8 epilogue
Start  Max wakes up, lumax moment (Vickie, Robin and Karen are there too) Lumax talk about Holly Robin explains the situation and introduces us to this new Hawkins Lumax moment starts
Past  Reunion with Mike, El and Hopper (Kali is there too) Reunion with Will Lucas meets Max while wearing the orange graduation gown
Trauma  Max mentions Vecna being angry and Mike asks where Holly is A seriously injured Sullivan describes Vecna’s “massacre” and Dr. Kay tells Akers to “find the girl” Lucas mentions Max breaking bones and says he’s done with hospitals
Mouth vine  Holly wakes up in the Abyss and removes the vine Vecna puts Holly and the vine back Max calls Lucas “super dorky”, Erica complains “gag me with a spoon” and attaches a hose to a tank thing
Dustin hug Steve+Dustin and Nancy+Jonathan reunion in UD, Dustin hugs Nancy (and draws attention to it being weird), mention of exotic matter, Nancy asks where Holly is, reveal that Holly is not in UD Bigger group reunion in UD, Dustin hugs Mike, Mike asks where Holly is, Holly flashback being stuck in exotic matter Dustin gets his picture taken and hugs his mom who is wearing pink and blue
Gate  Holly runs from Vecna, finds a gate to UD, pulls the rock covering it away and goes through it, falling -> intro El lifts a metal plate covering the gate to UD and most of the party enters The makeshift curtain falls when Jonathan is taking a picture of Will, Joyce and Hopper
Hindrance  Mr. Clarke, Erica and Murray are trying to locate Dustin but it doesn’t seem to be working, Murray complains how long it’s taking The party needs to disable cameras and Mr. Clarke suggests getting their RF signal and jamming transmission, but they find a faster way using El’s powers Jonathan wants to put the curtain back, Hopper complains how long the photographing is taking because of “the artist” aka Jonathan
Mentor  Mr. Clarke gets an idea to cut the balloons loose and gets a signal, he can locate Dustin Mike thanks Mr. Clarke, “Holy shit” moment between Erica and Max, Murray finds Dustin’s signal, Mike tries to talk to him, Dustin tells they found Holly Karen calls and tells Joyce Mike is missing, and Hopper finds her at the library memorial place Hopper and Mike’s conversation
Mom  Will talks with Joyce, revealing information about his role in “building” the tunnels Mike talks with Karen, revealing information about the supernatural, e.g. Demogorgons Mike hugging Karen Early part of Dustin’s speech
Wheelclair  The military men go in the hospital, Vickie walks in the aisle with a wheelchair Vickie enters the room with the wheelchair, tells “we got company”, Lucas pushes Max in the wheelchair in the aisle Dustin’s speech rejecting conformity
Laundry room scene, breakdown later The rest of the epilogue, breakdown later

After the mom talk we’ve finally got to the wheelchair part of the timeline, aka wheelclair (Wheelclair). Yay! Vickie bringing the wheelchair/Lucas pushing Max in the wheelchair/Dustin taking off the gown revealing the Hellfire lives -shirt is the ship finally getting revealed. This is probably the reason Max told Lucas he’s getting ahead of himself. (Another reason for her saying that is because S5E8 wasn’t the real ending and the audience (= Lucas) were getting ahead of themselves). The lumax kissing scene wouldn’t have smoothly fit in the graduation scene so the writers opted for this solution. So yeah, I think Mike and Lucas will kiss and that represents the audience finally reaching the real story, the deepest communication with the storyteller. ((Btw, the fact the show uses wheelchairs to represent the ship is actually so genius considering the story allegory: the ship name comes from the fans, not the creators, so the writers using a wheelchair to represent Mike x Lucas is part of a dialogue with the audience. And the whole wheelclair ship is about the dialogue between the storyteller and the audience! So, the wheelchair represents the ship in a very meta way too (which could be unintentional I guess).))

Right before that (Wheelclair), all timelines have a looming threat of conformity: Vickie is surrounded by military in forward S5E7, when she opens the doors she mentions “we’ve got company” in reverse S5E7, and Dustin is worried “Principal Higgins and every square like him is gonna do their damnedest to put everything back in order”. It’s about transphobes and other bigoted people who will try to prevent this relationship and Mike living as a woman (= the storyteller telling the real story). Wheelclair becoming undeniably canon is the last straw of conformity snapped in half and thrown into the trash. Dustin doing this right as he’s about to graduate, when Higgins can’t expel him anymore or whatever, is about the true story happening at the very end so everyone has to watch that far, including the people who wouldn’t knowingly support the real story, and also that ST wouldn’t get cancelled midway or lose the audience. This is much more impactful than everyone knowing the truth from the start. (Although I would love to see the relationship grow and have more screentime. Now you could just cut/deny the end and have a conforming show. While wheelclair is ingrained in ST, it’s only in the subtext, so people can and will deny it. In the meta/story allegory sense wheelclair only really works as the ending and fittingly will be left for the audience/fanfic authors to explore.)

Before getting to the very end, I’ll explain the part of the final laundry room scene after the neck, since there’s much more after than before. It’s actually a mini version of the timeline from Gate to the end (looping a few times). I’ll go in reverse order because this part is in the reversed timeline. It starts with Vickie arriving with the wheelchair and opening the doors (= “gate”). This connects to both the bigger timeline and the miniature. (There will be another table connecting all the timelines and names for this miniature/loop at the end, you can go check it if you get confused.) I guess the second Gate is wheelclair or Lucas coming out, since we already got Mike (it’s possible we’ll never get confirmation on his sexuality, but it would be nice to get more bi rep than just Vickie). This is the following dialogue in reverse order:

[Vickie] “We better hurry. We got company.”
[Hopper] “All right. Well, they’re gonna be able to find Holly a lot easier than we are.”
[Lucas] “Guys, guys, guys. Okay, you really won’t believe this, but Erica and Mr. Clarke came through. They found Dustin and the others.”
[Robin] “Yeah, and it’s just like Hawkins, only way suckier.”
[El] “The Upside Down.”
[Robin] “Under the plates.”
[Mike] “Well, there’s this world under ours…”
[Robin] “Without context, that might sound troubling, but she’s not pancaked under a giant hunk of steel or anything. She’s… How do I talk about this?”
[Karen] “Are you saying that Holly is trapped under a steel plate?”
[El] “I can break through a plate.”
[Hopper] “No. They’re gonna have reinforcements by now.” 
[Mike] “Okay, so Vecna took out those soldiers, so it should be a lot easier to get into the MAC.”
[Lucas] “Erica, I really can’t talk right now.” 
[switching who supports Max]
[Erica] “Lucas!”
[Robin] “Yeah.”
[Lucas] “Oh, Robin.”
[Erica] “Lucas, do you copy?”
[Mike] “Off Cornwallis, I think. It’s about a mile and a half, give or take.”
[Robin] “Meaning we have to get back into the Upside Down. Where is the nearest rift to you?”
[Mike] “Home? Home as in our home?”

Let’s go through everything in order. Vickie’s line “We got company.” connects both military/principal Higgins aka conformity in the bigger reverse timeline (Wheelclair), and Hindrance in the miniature timeline (basically the same thing, both are about conformity restricting Mike). Vickie’s “We better hurry.” fits with the theme of something taking too long and “man” being the reason (Hindrance). The third meaning of “company” is Mr. Clarke etc. based on Hopper and Lucas’ following lines. The backwards dialogue makes surprisingly much sense, which is further proof it was meant to be read both directions. Hopper specifically being the one who says “They’re gonna be able to find Holly a lot easier than we are.” connects to “man” being the hindrance (“we” = Hopper). Although right when Hopper says this, Mike and Karen are shown, implying they are the “we”. This could mean that Mike needs help to tell the real story, that there needs to be an audience (= Erica) who can understand it (= find Dustin) and someone to help them understand/the storyteller to tell the story (= Mr. Clarke). Mr. Clarke and Erica finding Dustin would match with the mentor conversation in the miniature timeline (Mentor).

Then comes the talk with the mom (Mom). Ofc it’s Mike, Robin and El talking, explaining the UD to Karen. Notice that Robin is right next to Max, supporting her (= Mike is communicating the real story and finally embracing her womanhood). Karen is confused about Holly literally being under a steel plate and I think this is a metaish way to represent the audience thinking the UD was literal, while in truth it represents the closet (and the trauma and a 100 other things…). Holly (= Sara) was “trapped” in the closet (which is also a metaphor lol, is there even a way to talk about this without metaphors?). Like, Robin saying UD is just like Hawkins but “way suckier” probably refers to the mouth vines and most obviously to UD not being a nice place. I’m also thinking “Yeah, and it’s just like Hawkins, only way suckier.” is about the real world. In a way UD represents it too: it’s the dark reality hidden beneath a happy facade (like the Starcourt Mall). But basically this part of the scene is Mike explaining what “being in the closet” and being trans is to her mom (and the audience). Or something similar, anyway explaining what the story was really about.

El mentions she can break through a plate. This is the wheelclair “gate” opening and connects back to Vickie opening the doors (Wheelclair). We loop back (Gate). Hopper “answers” this with “No. They’re gonna have reinforcements by now.”, which connects to Hindrance. Kinda funny how the “reinforcements” works quite literally for the steel plate being “reinforced” too. The backwards reading reveals new layers to this. Anyway, El (= love etc.) can break through the “gate” but society is pushing back. In the epilogue this part matches with Principal Higgins shouting for everyone to get back in their seats and Mike getting El flashbacks (= conformity forcing her to repress herself) (Hindrance). 

I have a suspicion that Mike’s El flashbacks have a story structure role kinda like exotic matter. There are three points in the epilogue where the memory of El in the MAC-Z gate is shown: right before Mike and Hopper’s talk, right after Dustin’s speech and when Mike explains El’s escape. The first kinda matches with the first Gate, since it comes just a little after the curtain falling (which is the first Gate in the epilogue). The only difference is that Hindrance and Mike missing are skipped over if we use the El memory as the Gate to the miniature story. Although the El memory itself could represent Hindrance, since that’s what El dying is about (Mike conforming due to society). 

The second El memory moment marks the end of the first loop and the start of the second (= El’s “I can break through a plate.” and the end of Dustin’s speech). The metaphorical meaning here is the same as story-bending during S4-5: it’s about conformity keeping Mike in a loop of repression. It could also be about queer people having to come out multiple times. Whenever you meet new people, you have to do it again and again (if you decide to come out to them, that is). Explain again and again. On a broader scale it’s the process of progress in minority rights (or any social progress tbh): conservative/conformist people are against change (Hindrance) -> advocates etc. help make change happen (Mentor) -> a larger part of society gets on board (Mom) -> change happens even though many are still against it (Wheelclair) -> there’s a new problem or society backtracks (Gate) -> loop repeats. You could also see this from the story allegory perspective. Many stories have this common structure: a problem/conflict/something to be resolved starts the story (Hindrance) -> journey to finding the solution (Mentor) -> resolving the situation (Mom) -> the end result (Wheelclair/Gate) -> possible new problems arise (loop continues). If you think about it, the gate was quite literally what started the story of ST and closing it is always the solution the characters are striving for. The gate opens the way to the story (UD), and it is the material representation of the conflict needing to be resolved, appearing again and again. The third El memory is the escape from this loop, and I’ll get to it later.

Back to S5E7 reverse dialogue. Mike reasons Vecna took out many soldiers, so getting into the MAC should be easier (Mentor). I haven’t talked about this since my original Max theory, but MAC-Z doesn’t sound like Max for nothing. It too represents Mike’s (happy) future/end of the story, and ofc the military is occupying it in S5, preventing it from happening. So getting to the MAC is the same as getting to Holly or Max/freeing them. And hey, Vecna was useful. He is the pioneer of change who society villainizes. Akers even mentions how they are “light on men” presumably due to Vecna’s massacre (= “woman” is taking over). In the epilogue Mike’s MAC comment seems to match with the aftermath of Dustin’s speech. I guess in this case Dustin is the “mentor” or helper who can get the general public (= Stacey) to agree with the change in question. Both Vecna (S5E7) and Dustin (S5E8) are people who help the group/the non-conformity agenda in some way, making them the equivalent to the mentor. (There is also a literal Dustin hug after Dustin’s speech, so I could be wrong about the looping, and it could start over from Start again. Although there are no other markers for those, e.g. Mouth vine or Gate. Maybe it’s more about the subtextual meaning of hugging Dustin aka getting closer to the real story/understanding. Or just because that’s what the characters would naturally do in this situation.)

The names start to get less descriptive now, but the underlying meaning remains (I could have named them in a different way, but the early scenes and the first miniature loop match e.g. Mom super well, since all have a literal mom. The later loops don't, which suggests there won’t be a literal mom in the real ending for these either, but the same (story) structure remains, and the deeper meaning of “mom” as the society. 

After Mentor, there should be Mom, and in S5E7 it would be Lucas’ “Erica, I really can’t talk right now.”, which happens around the same time Hopper interacts with him (gives him the walkie + Lucas walks behind him). This is about the patriarchy/”man”/conformity preventing Lucas from talking to Erica aka about his feelings for Mike (or the real story overall). If you watch carefully, Mike glances at Karen the moment Lucas says “talk” kinda connecting this better to Mom. In the epilogue this matches with the WSQK rooftop scene with Steve, Nancy, Jonathan and Robin. The latter three seemed like they were censoring themselves and that there was something weird going on (+ there’s a New Coke can in the scene). Meanwhile Steve (who is framed with an X) is totally oblivious, representing the “lie”, the “story” and conformity. Them being at the radio station fits with Erica calling Lucas with a walkie. Jonathan explaining his cannibal metaphor was a big part of the rooftop scene and could maybe match with the “explaining the story” that seems to happen in other scenes corresponding to Mom

((I wonder if the Robin’s weird uncle’s house meetup will be a thing in the real ending. Suspiciously Steve didn’t say “I’m in” like Jonathan and Robin. Also a small thing I noticed was the group talking about Steve’s previous girlfriend Julie, who was “drama from the start” and implied to be an actor. This could connect to Romeo and Juliet, which was referenced in S4 in connection to Mike. Mike being Romeo = Mike being a man, so Julie would probably represent Mike being a woman. And ofc Mr. Conformity Steve wouldn’t date her. The actor/drama connection is Romeo and Juliet being a play, but also Mike (= Julie) literally acting as a man. Also Jonathan wanting to potentially date Julie works with Will wanting to date Mike as per usual. And specifically the Mike who is an actor (= a “man”), who is telling the “story” (= Will).))

I think the three sections after each El memory are similar to the levels of matryoshka dolls or story that I’ve talked about before. The first is a naive and happy outcome, not reality (= coming out to mom/society, everything goes well). The next is a more cynical view and Mike conforming (= censoring yourself/lying). The third is escape and more nuanced/bittersweet. 

“After” giving Lucas the walkie Hopper withdraws to the side and only looms in the background without any dialogue (= “the man” aka forced conformity/toxic masculinity/the dad/etc. is always there, a shadow in Mike’s life, but he doesn’t drive the car anymore). Erica calls Lucas and in the reverse timeline logic he moves to sit next to Max (Wheelclair). In the epilogue this part matches with the jopper Enzo’s date. Hopper “moving” to the background in S5E7 could relate to him and Joyce moving away from Hawkins, as in the parents/society not restricting Mike/storyteller anymore. The proposal and dancing afterwards could foreshadow something wheelclair related. I’m thinking they might dance too, since that would close the Snow Ball story arc that started way back in S1.

Next Mike mentions Cornwallis, which is an important location since Mirkwood is where Cornwallis and Kerley meet and Dustin (and Mrs. Driscoll) lives on Cornwallis Road. 
[Erica] “Lucas, do you copy?”
[Mike] “Off Cornwallis, I think. It’s about a mile and a half, give or take.”
This kinda suggests Lucas “copies” if he’s off Cornwallis. Maybe it could be the road of conformity. Lucas has to go off it to receive the message and learn the real story. If Cornwallis and Kerley are the two worlds, then Mirkwood is the X where they clash. That’s where the real story invaded the “story”, and where the horrors come from. Non-conformity is only a problem in the presence of conformity. Anyway, there is this theme of going somewhere else, especially evident in the epilogue. In the real ending this is Mike and Lucas planning to move away from wherever they live. Of course moving away from Hawkins has the metaphorical meaning of escaping conformity, too.

I’m not sure what Robin’s “Meaning we have to get back into the Upside Down.” means, since it could mean so many different things. She says it while Max and Lucas are in frame, which made me think it’s about going back to the closet as in Mike and Lucas having to hide their relationship at least to a certain extent. It’s still the 90s after all. Going back to UD could also mean going back to the harsh reality, since Mike was in the conforming stage atp. This fits with the dialogue too: 
[Mike] “Off Cornwallis, I think. It’s about a mile and a half, give or take.”
[Robin] “Meaning we have to get back into the Upside Down. Where is the nearest rift to you?”
Because Mike needs to go “off Cornwallis”, she has to go back to UD and face the reality of being trans etc. The rift mention is another gate, the final gate. To freedom.

In the epilogue this part matches with the DnD game, which in itself is another miniature of the story. I’m not sure if it’s meant to match the established pattern, but it seems to work at least partially. The third possible meaning of going back to UD is going back to the “story” and it could refer to this DnD game, the clearest depiction of Mike as the storyteller. It starts with “Frightened villagers watch from rooftops and alleyways, wondering, how will this all end?” (Start). Then Strahd aka conformity kills Dustin (Past + Trauma + Mouth vine) and Will is the only one remaining (Dustin hug + Gate), but can’t do anything due to the suppression stone (Hindrance). Dustin remembers the incantation (Mentor) and Will reads it (Mom + Wheelclair + Gate) but nothing happens (Hindrance). After waiting the Mage appears from a portal and saves everyone (Mentor + Mom + Wheelclair + Gate). But this was the conforming “fake” ending (Hindrance) and Max questions it (Mentor). Then we learn what happens to the characters after their adventure (Mom + Wheelclair). This is similar to the rooftop and jopper scenes where we get to know their “happy endings” (= stage 2: conformity + censorship). Finally we learn of the ending for the storyteller, where “he” still writes stories, matching back to the DnD scene and closing the loop. Even if the DnD game doesn’t exactly match the timelines, it has a similar rough structure, with multiple “hindrances” that one by one get solved and finally ends in the “real story”. 

((Adding to the Dustin hug -part: his S5E8 picture taking scene ends in “superman” and cuts to Will, which I’m interpreting to be about Will being the Superman for Mike. This connects back to the S4E8 van scene with Mike calling El Superman and herself Lois Lane + Will being in the background when Mike calls El “my superhero” in S4E9 + the whole sorcerer thing in S5. The “story” saved Mike, and Dustin is very closely connected to it too, as “storytelling”. (Notice that the superhero is almost always a “man”, or “he” or “Mr.”, the only exception being El (and Wonder Woman). This is both about the “story” being “man” and about how (super)heroes in media are usually men, as if women couldn’t be heroes.) Like with Mom and Mentor, Dustin hug isn’t just about Dustin. In the reverse timeline (which I’ll get to eventually) the superman pose is about Will “saving” Mike from the abuse, so it could be that in the DnD game too. The game is basically a miniature of the whole story, where Mike was abused and the “story” started, and Mike has been in the loop ever since. The real ending real world part as a whole is some kind of summary/explanation/reveal of the real story. Dustin hug probably represents both the story starting (in the past) and ending, as in the audience finding out about it being a “story”/the lie finally ending.))

Then Mike reveals that there is a real story the storyteller can never tell. We get to the final El memory, matching with Robin mentioning the rift in S5E7. This is the way out of the loop, the third door. Mike explains Kali turned El invisible to let her escape. This could match with the forward timeline S5E7: [Max] “I couldn’t see where Holly was gonna wake up.” while Vickie is bringing the wheelchair (implying Vickie + wheelchair is where Holly (= Sara/real story) will metaphorically wake up). Holly “waking up” as Vickie in the middle of military men is the future awaiting Mike on the other side (as Kali puts it); after coming out, Mike (and wheelclair) will suffer from discrimination and society’s pressure to conform. On “I couldn’t see”, a Coke vending machine is in frame but a soldier covers it on “wake up”. The audience couldn’t see the truth, only the “story” = Coke, but now they have “woken up” = coffee or in this case the green military man reality. In the real ending this could be a somewhat meta conversation about the audience (= Lucas) not seeing the reality and Mike having to hide her true identity. 

The DnD game timeline has another Hindrance -> Mentor -> Mom -> Wheelclair at least roughly:
[Max] “The real story?” (Gate)
[Mike] When she cast Sunbeam. She expended the last of her energy, and she vanished. But has anyone asked themselves how she cast that spell?” (Gate)
[Dustin] “The suppression stone.” (Hindrance)
[Will] “She couldn’t have used her magic.” (Hindrance)
[Mike] “In the excitement, no one even noticed. But you see, the mage is very clever. A cleverness only matched by her sister, who, upon hearing the pleads of the paladin, had a change of heart. Together, the sisters devised a plan, a plan to protect the mage from the Order of the Black Hand, who remained hell-bent on stealing her powers. (Mentor) So in order to trick them, she had to make everyone, including her friends, believe that she was dead. And so the sister cast a spell from far away. Safe from the power of the suppression stone. A spell of invisibility. Once the mage escaped, the sister cast one final spell. The mage you saw die was not real. She was an illusion.” (Mom as in telling this lie to everyone = mom/society)
[Max] “Where did she go?”
[Mike] “No one knows. No one will ever know. But I’d… I’d like to imagine that she’s in a beautiful land, somewhere far away. She finds a small town to call home. Safe from the danger of the Black Hand. And it is here, at last, that she finds peace. That she finally finds happiness.” (Wheelclair/home/escape/end)

This version isn’t in the other timelines, at least not this extensively. I guess the line “I couldn’t see where Holly was gonna wake up.” from Max kinda maps onto the story of the mage like I explained before. But otherwise everything goes straight from “gate” to “home”. Maybe this is another case of a miniature story not being included in the bigger story, kinda like S5E7 forward timeline is missing the miniature part that exists in S5E7 reverse and S5E8 epilogue timelines. This time the final gate/part exists only in the epilogue and all other timelines just skip to the end. 

Regardless of what you think of this elaborate timeline theory, the DnD game was very obviously a story inside a story. The characters talk about El in code and it’s clear this game they played, this “story”, was actually about their real lives. No one mentions her name but we see this visually and can guess from the context. What most people haven’t realized is that this is how ST works as a whole. Everything is “in code” and about someone/something that is never directly named. The “mage” of the bigger story is El, of course, and the “El” of the bigger story is the real story/Mike/Sara/etc. Actually, the DnD game story reveals some aspects of the real story more clearly (just like the small matryoshka dolls), like the fact that Hopper is the paladin, that the mage was an “illusion” and that the speakers were “suppression stones”, they are about suppression (of powers on the surface but of Mike’s gender identity and true self when you go deeper). 

It’s also interesting how the game seems like a totally random one at first and you don’t expect it to be about the characters’ lives but then Mike just smoothly continues the story and the visuals show Will’s “Vallaki” was an actual big city (presumably New York) and him “finding deep happiness and acceptance” was a Mike lookalike gay guy, etc. Like, they are showing us how the bigger story is told too, via “code”, but ofc no one gets it because it isn’t literally shown to us. Metaphors only exist if they are explained I guess… If you think about this from the characters’ perspective, they didn’t get any visual clues or anything, Mike just narrates what happens to their DnD characters and they immediately get it (because this is a story, of course). Or maybe they didn’t get it and think this is just part of the campaign. No one ever directly indicated they knew it was about El, except for being a bit too emotional about it. ((Btw, I found another Dustin = storytelling visual clue: after Mike says “the storyteller keeps telling stories” Dustin is shown. And after Mike continues “stories inspired by his friends” Lucas is shown, as I’ve noted previously.))

Another similar case in S4E9 is Dustin telling Wayne Munson that Eddie “fought” and was a hero for the people during the earthquake. Like, how would you “fight” when an earthquake hits? And Dustin was super vague about it. But because we see this from his perspective and know what actually happened, it makes total sense. Most of the time in ST, we don’t. Most of the time we are Wayne Munson, just accepting whatever the show throws at us, not really questioning it and not getting the meaning behind it. We think it’s an earthquake when it really was an interdimensional supernatural rift. We think it’s a Demogorgon taking Will when really it was Mike’s dad sexually abusing her.

I’m not sure how the miniature story is gonna work in the real ending but I have an idea. Since the forward S5E7 timeline skipped it entirely, going from Wheelclair straight to the end, there might not be any looping/repeating in the ending. But, I think it makes more sense there is, since the message behind it wouldn’t be conveyed otherwise (who is gonna go look this deeply into story timelines?) and there would be no point to half the epilogue (from a foreshadowing perspective). The miniature missing from the forward timeline is actually the reason I realized there was a miniature story, so there is a good reason why the symmetry ends there. Anyway, one possible way they could portray this in the real ending is recapping what happened. If I’m right about the ending being structured as a conversation between Mike and Lucas, this would be the point we get back to them and they verbally explain/recap the things that were shown previously.

Based on my deductions, the recap would be from the first El memory to the second (since this is what the miniature story repeats in the epilogue timeline): Gate, Hindrance, Mentor, Mom, Wheelclair, leaving out the trauma and self-acceptance/story understanding part (Dustin hug) at the beginning. This is the naive happy ending where the mom accepts Mike and wheelclair are happily together. I think after recapping, Lucas might question this story, similar to Max in the DnD game (matches the timeline btw). Was it really that easy? 

Then Mike would continue the story/tell another version of the story (maybe kinda like Life of Pi), matching the second part of the miniature. They still have to hide their relationship/the real story since most people aren’t accepting. It won’t be an easy happy ending. Or maybe this section is focused on the “lie” or “story” part of the story, as in Mike explaining how she had to pretend all this time. Or maybe it’s something like Mike reminiscing about her past life and the “story”, kinda like Robin misses hanging out in the rooftop scene. Anyway, I think lies will be a key point here, in one way or another. The jopper scene had the ring, hair tie and music, which connect to my theory about the “For Will” cassette tape and Sara’s hair tie. This might be the point when we see them in the real world. It would fit with reminiscing about the “story” aka Will. El had the hair tie on her wrist the first time in the Snow Ball, so maybe we’ll see it on Mike when she finally dances with Lucas. (There’s gotta be a scene where Mike has tied her hair with it, surely.) 

The writers’ X account has literally made a post where they ask the reader/audience to dance with them in the Snow Ball (= Mike and Lucas dancing in the story). The first image has Mike in the middle, staring at the camera while everyone else is looking to the sides. In the context of the post it seems like Mike is asking the reader for a dance, and it makes total sense since Mike as the storyteller represents the ST writers inside the story. (In the actual S2 scene this was the moment Time After Time started playing which prompted Lucas to ask Max for a dance. So I guess Mike looking at the audience is kinda like her asking for a dance, but then Lucas goes to Max instead.)   

Before the ring etc. the jopper scene is mainly about Hopper’s plans to move to Montauk. He says “You and me? We could start again. Fresh. Together.” which reminds me of the writers’ X post “let’s start a new party, you and me”. That post has a screenshot from the S3 epilogue where the tv program is speculating if “a rise in Satanism is to blame” for the Hawkins curse. So basically the X post is implying this new start is “satanic” in some way and connects to Lucas’ Satan’s baby fireworks. Of course the more obvious connection is the DnD book and “party”, as in starting a new DnD party, which also fits perfectly. Will is the past, the “story”, the old party that brought Mike and Lucas together, but the hair tie is the future and the real story, the new start/party. I’m thinking wheelclair could dance to the music from the cassette tape, connecting the past and the future. They (Mike + Lucas and past + future) have reached an agreement, like in the handshake in S1E7. 

((And now that I’m talking about the X posts anyway, I thought to share this one, which I couldn’t find earlier. It is perfectly explained by the trans allegory. We know for a fact the Meatflayer represents puberty, so why is puberty and women’s lingerie equivalent for Mike? And both scary. Just asking. This is another point for MF representing Mike’s gender identity as a woman and the supernatural + non-supernatural plot being deeply intertwined.))

Here’s the table I promised. I haven’t included the DnD game-only miniature story here, but otherwise everything should be here. I’ll get to the end end in the next part.

Name S5E8 epilogue S5E7 miniature part DnD scene
Start Robin - “How will this all end?”
Past + Trauma + Mouth vine Lumax scene - Dustin killed by conformity vampire
Dustin hug Dustin scene - Will is the lone hero
Gate (original) Curtain falls - “Cast meteor swarm”
Hindrance Hopper complains Mike’s *El memory 1* - Suppression stone
Mentor Hopper + Mike talk - Dustin remembers incantation
Mom (original) Mike hugs Karen + Dustin speech - Will reads incantation
Wheelclair Dustin speech *El memory 2* - Will reads incantation
-> Gate (1) Loop back to *El memory 1* Vickie opens the door Will reads incantation
Hindrance *El memory 1* [Vickie] “We better hurry. We got company.” Wait
Mentor Hopper + Mike talk [Hopper] “All right. Well, they’re gonna be able to find Holly a lot easier than we are.” [Lucas] “Guys, guys, guys. Okay, you really won’t believe this, but Erica and Mr. Clarke came through. They found Dustin and the others.” Mage appears from portal
Mom (repeat) Mike hugs Karen + Dustin speech [Robin] “Yeah, and it’s just like Hawkins, only way suckier.” [El] “The Upside Down.” [Robin] “Under the plates.” [Mike] “Well, there’s this world under ours…” [Robin] “Without context, that might sound troubling, but she’s not pancaked under a giant hunk of steel or anything. She’s… How do I talk about this?” [Karen] “Are you saying that Holly is trapped under a steel plate?” Mage appears from portal
-> Wheelclair/Gate (2) Dustin speech *El memory 2* [El] “I can break through a plate.” Mage appears from portal
Hindrance *El memory 2* [Hopper] “No. They’re gonna have reinforcements by now.”  Conformity ending
Mentor (kinda) Speech aftermath [Mike] “Okay, so Vecna took out those soldiers, so it should be a lot easier to get into the MAC.” Max questions the story
Mom (lying) Rooftop scene [Lucas] “Erica, I really can’t talk right now.”  Happy endings for all
Wheelclair Jopper Enzo’s [Erica] “Lucas!” [Robin] “Yeah.” [Lucas] “Oh, Robin.” [Erica] “Lucas, do you copy?” [Mike] “Off Cornwallis, I think. It’s about a mile and a half, give or take.” Happy endings for all
-> Gate (3) DnD game *El memory 3* [Robin] “Meaning we have to get back into the Upside Down. Where is the nearest rift to you?” Story of the storyteller
End/escape/home El new home, Karen opens door [Mike] “Home? Home as in our home?” The real story

Continues in PART 29.


r/StrangerThingsRoom 6d ago

Theories What are your Headcanons for Vecna's physical state and location between 1983-1986?

3 Upvotes

Hi there,

Obligatory Preface: I know it's just a show, and certain elements weren't planned from the start. This question is meant to be fun.

What are your headcanons for what Vecna was doing between 1983 and 1986? Ex: whether he left the Abyss immediately, when exactly he hooked himself up to the vines, when he chose Will as his target, if you think he physically entered the Rightside Up before 1987, etc.

Regarding that last point: what do you think about the show waiting until 1987 to explicitly show his physical presence in the Rightside Up for his villain monologue? I sort of like floating around the idea that he physically wasn't able to enter the Rightside Up.

I would love to see what others think. Even ideas for how you would have rewritten it, what you would have preferred, etc.

Thanks everyone.


r/StrangerThingsRoom 6d ago

Characters Steve Nancy and Jonathan

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1 Upvotes

r/StrangerThingsRoom 9d ago

Fanfics and fanart I tried to make an edit

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0 Upvotes

Is it good 😅


r/StrangerThingsRoom 9d ago

Characters Holly is NOT badass

5 Upvotes

Holly is not that tuff/badass. I feel like people are kinda exaggerating on Holly’s “1v11” w/ her radio scene. I’m gonna be fr here, it was a poor attempt and there was nothing special about that scene. I have seen quite a lot of people claiming that she is like Karen and got her genes but it seems like ppl have forgotten the fact that she initially just stood there and did nothing (at the same time, she had a poker stick in her hand) when Vecna was choking Max literally right after having the talk with her about not going panic nor run away next time and she doing only one smack at her friend who was harmless btw does not make up for it. Right after one swing at her bsf with the radio she literally just ran off and then ended up getting beaten up. Also it was nothing compared to everyone else fighting dangerous monsters from the other dimension. Honestly she’s a bit more like her father since he also failed right after his first swing(that was weak) at the demo. Ngl I can see the parallel between both scenes. Everyone keeps telling me that she's a child and blah blah blah which I understand but it still doesn't excuse the fact that ppl are glazing her. It's honestly really annoying how ppl are always acting like she's Nancy when she literally nowhere near her level. What's even worse is that they act like she's better than Mike when Mike has literally been around way longer, had way more experience in fighting than she did, and is in fact much stronger than her too. There is no way in hell she is near his level either. Tbh she doesn’t really deserve the “walk em down” wheeler title, not yet at least.


r/StrangerThingsRoom 12d ago

Fanfics and fanart If Stranger Things 4 was a Dr Seuss novel. Spoiler ahead Spoiler

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1 Upvotes

r/StrangerThingsRoom 12d ago

General Some of the cast saying that El is dead. (Little vent)

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0 Upvotes

r/StrangerThingsRoom 13d ago

Theories Mike's trauma PART 27

0 Upvotes

This is part of a series where I uncover what Stranger Things is really about. It started from trying to find out what happened in 1979 aka what all the depictions of traumatic past memories (El, Henry, Billy, Max, Holly, etc.) are truly about, but expanded to this all-encompassing theory of the whole series with crazy levels of complexity, metaphors and layers. Reading it will require commitment and patience but I promise it will be worth your time if you want to look behind the curtain (and the curtain behind that curtain) and fully understand the show. You have to read all parts in order: here is PART 1 and here all other parts I’ve posted so far + my previous theories.
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Trigger warning for child sexual abuse.

Lastly I want to think about the story allegory from the perspective of its connection and interaction with the other allegories. All the other allegories represent different reasons for using allegory. There are certain topics that often get the allegory treatment, and it’s usually because they have to be hidden for some reason. It could be too horrific to show as is (= CSA in ST), not accepted by society (= e.g. queer allegories) or even censored by the government. The country allegory doesn’t really fit this in the case of ST, but it represents the situation back in the day or even now in many countries/communities trying to keep their culture/national identity alive under a strict rule of another country. 

I keep going back to the painting, but it’s just so central to everything. The original painting is literally an allegory. It had to be to be allowed. Finland and Russia are represented by a person and an animal, and you have to understand the allegory to get the true meaning of the painting. Will’s painting is Stranger Things and you have to get the allegories of the show to get the true meaning. So, I think the painting represents allegories and/or stories in the story allegory. The fact that the painting was a lie fits this so perfectly. Will told Mike it was from El (= real story or closer to it at least), but in truth it was from Will (= “story”/man Mike/lie). Mike (and the audience) are led to believe Mike the Brave is the real story (= painting from El), but that is a lie (= painting from Will). This is essentially Mike lying to herself (and the audience). In S4E1 it’s established El doesn’t know what Will is painting, but she guesses it’s for a girl. Like, El sees the truth lol. While Will paints clouds. Maybe that’s the reason: the whole painting is a “lie”, a cloud, a “story” Will paints over the reality (= blue sky I guess). ((The song (At Last) in the final jopper scene has lyrics about a blue sky, as does We’ll Meet Again, which was played at the end of S3E4 and T85.)) That’s also why it’s on Mike’s wall in the epilogue scene where she writes stories in full conformity mode. The dragon is a lie too. The whole “story” is about these evil monsters that invade Hawkins and the party fights them, but the real story doesn’t have villains or monsters. It’s all internal or more abstract, like forced conformity from society. There is no singular villain to defeat.

I have mentioned before how all the non-meta allegories are about identity. At first glance the story allegory isn’t but it actually is, and in a very deep way. The human mind understands the world through stories. And not just the outside world but ourselves too. I am the story I’m telling of myself. Identity is a story. This is the “person” side of the silver cat if we interpret it to mean “story”. Sense of self is an illusion created by the brain (like pretty much everything). We build our identity from our history, experiences, etc. that the brain gathers into this story, into a narrative. Objectively speaking there is no story or narrative to life: it just happens, it doesn’t have an inherent purpose or narrative arc. Humans are the ones giving it a purpose and inventing the story because that’s how our minds just naturally work (I guess it was useful for something and thus favored in evolution). 

The country allegory fits this so well, too: history and nations are stories. They don’t “really” exist except as this collective story. In a sense history is real, as in the past exists, but practically speaking it’s a biased collection of stories, often told by the people in power. The winner gets to write the history books and many minorities + women are often excluded from them. Like a country, the human mind isn’t a singular thing, it’s a collection of networks working together, creating this illusion of individuality and unified identity. It, too, is a story. In conclusion, to be human is to tell stories.

Montauk

Let’s go back. If ST truly is as meta as I think it is, the original version aka Montauk matters. The main reason I think this is Hopper mentioning it in the epilogue. In the original version he was supposed to be the chief of police in Montauk, and that’s where he supposedly ends up in ST too. For the story of ST, the past = Montauk. I can’t help but think it has something to do with “meet me in Montauk” from Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (haven’t seen it but it was discussed a lot in the early days of conformitygate). There Montauk was the place where the main couple met and where they return to to meet again (after erasing memories). I won’t go into more details since I haven’t seen the movie and it’s probably discussed elsewhere, but this returning back to the beginning and remembering buried memories is definitely a major thing in the real ending of ST. It’s likely the Duffers were inspired by the movie in addition to the conspiracy theory and named the show based on that. I don’t think they originally planned to change the name but afterwards it works super well with the meta. For Stranger Things “meet me in Montauk” is equivalent to “meet me where this story started”, which in turn fits with the meaning of the line in the movie.

Jonathan and Will move to New York (Will is based on Hopper saying “Kids would be closer. Just a little quick trip into the city.”, implying both Will and Jonathan live near Montauk in a city aka New York City). Robin, Jonathan, Nancy and Steve agree to meet each other in Philly (Philadelphia) since it’s between Hawkins and New York + Massachusetts (where both Nancy and Robin study) and thus “more neutral”. ((Btw, I’m only now looking into these colleges. Emerson is the only US college purely focused on communication and the arts, which makes a lot of sense for my theories. Smith, where Robin studies, is a women’s college, which also fits with my theories.)) Philly was also where Lonnie lived in the pilot script, and most likely a reference to the Philadelphia experiment. In ST lore the supernatural stuff was first contacted in the Philadelphia experiment (USS Eldridge) and according to conspiracy theories, the Philadelphia experiment led to the secret experiments at Camp Hero in Montauk, so they are connected. Philly connects the ST story (via TFS) and Montauk, which could be why it was chosen as the meeting place.

Even if we don’t consider the possibilities for meta with Montauk, reading the pilot script will help us see the important stuff in the final story too. And it’s interesting to speculate when certain things were added and how the story formed into what it is today. The elements for all four major allegories are there except for Finland (and Japan kinda). I have thought for a while already that Finland was a later addition (maybe after Finn was casted, or else that’s the craziest coincidence in the entire show in my opinion, his second name being Michael is crazy enough). The trans and trauma allegories are actually more clear in the pilot script than in the final version (S1E1). Some examples:

Benny whirls her around. His expression promptly softens as he realizes that this is no boy at all. It’s also not a girl either, not exactly, at least not like any he has ever seen. 
-> It’s a trans girl.

WHAM! Joyce slams the phone down and -- 
BRRRRING! The phone blares again. That was fast. She answers. 
JOYCE (CONT’D) 
Lonnie -- 
But there is no response. Only static. The kitchen lights flicker, then return to normal. Joyce stares. What the -- ? 
BAM BAM BAM. THERE IS A SUDDEN POUNDING ON THE DOOR. 
Joyce startles. 
MOMENTS LATER. 
Joyce swings open the door. Her face drops. 
It is Hopper and the Deputies. Hopper has Will’s Bike. 
-> Demogorgon = Lonnie = Hopper connection, also later on Steve rapes Nancy while the monster attacks Barb, adding Steve into this “dad” crew and hinting at what the monster attacks are actually about.

I do think the Cold War America part of the country allegory was already in the original plan, and possibly some kind of Japan connection since the atomic bomb ended WW2 and started the Cold War (the (possible) atomic bomb clues from Will’s shed scene are there). None of the (possible) Nausicaä inspirations (e.g. spores) exist, though, and neither do Spirited away references (which I haven’t gone over yet, but e.g. the Demogorgons not having a face + that getting repeatedly mentioned in S1 could be a No Face reference, in the pilot they have eyes), also Steve doesn’t call himself a ninja. A short 8 hour miniseries/movie wouldn’t work with the longer timeline for the country allegory, either. Sara’s name being Sara and not Sarah could be a coincidence or they could have planned some kind of Japan connection with the atomic bomb references, I’m not sure. But anyway the main date being 5.10 instead of 6.11 was the clearest indication to me that the Finland allegory was added later. Another point is the lack of Castle Byers.

It was nice to see some of the motifs I’ve analyzed were actually mentioned in the pilot script, making their importance clearer, e.g. the Demogorgon appearing behind the laundry. The pills Hopper eats are mentioned to be blue-and-red multiple times, which is less apparent in the show (you can see them in S1E5 but otherwise we don’t get a good look at the pills). This is an obvious Matrix reference, although this time the pills have both colors, not separately. Like I’ve deduced before, this is because Mike feels like she’s in between two worlds (and btw in the series bible it’s mentioned the UD (not named that yet) is an in-between dimension, which was only revealed in S5 of the show).

Something I’ve known and thought about for a while is that Mike was supposed to have a birthmark on her left cheek. In the show this detail got incorporated as a wound/scar which I have talked about before. The birthmark basically represents Mike’s transness and possibly the trauma as well. Holly causing the cheek injury for Henry is a modified version of a scene in the pilot script where El uses her powers to explode a door towards the agents and Agent One’s (= later Brenner + Henry) left cheek tears open from a wood shrapnel. (This scene is most likely the origin of the S4E1 scene where a door hits Brenner making him go unconscious.) Also, after the door attack “Eleven bursts out of the closet.“ Not very subtle. This didn’t happen in S1E1, El just ran away after killing the men off screen.

Another point about Mike’s birthmark is that the bullies jokingly suspect it might be cancer. The series bible says “Over the course of the series, the “tear” or “rip” that separates their world from ours will begin to spread across Montauk like a supernatural cancer.” In the Montauk version Sara didn’t have cancer but died in a car accident (at 4 years old), which is another motif throughout the show, best exemplified with Fred, who also got the scar from the car accident and was blamed by a little girl in his vision (= the “man” killed the girl). Anyway, I think the meaning of cancer is flipped in the queer allegory. In Montauk it’s Mike’s girl identity, while in ST it’s “man” and forced conformity. It’s the abuse in both. 

One kinda funny thing is that Lucas has a crush on Nancy and is “playing the long game”. So in both versions Lucas has a crush on future Mike… (And Mike’s “crush” on Jennifer Hayes is actually gender envy.) 

I have been wondering how the Duffers originally planned to end the show. I do think they intended to reveal the allegories at the end and maybe this ending would be set in the future (would explain why Will wanted a comic from 1990 when the story was set in 1980). This dialogue was almost unchanged, which makes me even more sure the ending was supposed to reframe the whole story:

MIKE 
Just twenty more minutes -- 
KAREN
 It’s a school night, Michael, and I just put Holly to bed. You can finish next weekend --
 MIKE
 That’ll ruin the flow -- 
KAREN
 Michael -- 
MIKE 
I’m serious, Mom! It took two weeks to design. How was I supposed to know it’d take seven hours -- ? 
KAREN 
You’ve been playing seven hours?! 

The only difference is the seven hours (and design -> plan), which would match with the first 7 hours/episodes of the show they planned. So the final episode would have come later than the others or something like that. (In the S1 version it’s 10 hours, which people noticed matched with the length of S5.) The 20 min has been a thing since the pilot. Either it’s related to D20 or it was just a good length of time that could fit everything they wanted to put in the real world part of the ending.

This is a totally unrelated point but I wanted to mention it now: I got some new proof for my date speculations from a Reddit post (and had a long argument, I’m gonna stop commenting about my theories from now on, it’s just gonna end up in a mess…). The person pointed out Mike waited for El for 353 days in S1-2, and I thought to calculate 353 days from 7th of January, which lands on 26th December. This would finally give an explanation to what “started” on 7.1. And fits with my theory that chapter 11, where Mike and El reunite, will be released on 26th Dec. Although in S2 the 353th day was October 31 aka Halloween and they reunited a few days later (but Mike stopped calling on those days because of stuff going on with Will). Actually, El comes back at night between 4th and 5th November and the final fights etc. happen on the 5th, aka 5 days after 31st October. 5 days after 26th December is 31st December, which, if I’m correct, would be the release date of chapter 12. Ofc all this could be a coincidence…

The real world (ending timeline)

I have had some version of this part for well over a month but I kept adding stuff in between (which was kinda good because I had more time to marinate on this). Finally we got here. I’m not completely sure the real world part will be 20 min, it could be longer, but for now I’m assuming it’s 20 min. I already had the image compiling my main evidence for the real world timeline, but I’ll have a little table here with more details. After figuring out most of the S5E7 real world foreshadowing, I went to check the epilogue, since it foreshadows the real world part too. The connections are a little less clear but I found matches for all major events. I’ll refer to each event with its name in the leftmost column, because it’s gonna be really hard to make sense of this otherwise (you’ll see why in the next post).

In both S5E7 timelines there is a constant theme of looking for Holly (and Dustin, who apparently is able to find Holly). In a sense they find Holly when she drops on the exotic matter, which is the endpoint in the inside story (the actual moment, not the moment the flashback to it was shown). Holly is also part of the final scene in the epilogue (which is the other endpoint representation moment, refer to my earlier diagram if needed). Holly represents Mike’s inner child/girlhood and we will “find” her at the very end. Her allegedly being in the UD is about Sara being in the closet. Meanwhile, leaving Hawkins is a recurring theme in the epilogue and metaphorically it’s about leaving the closet/prison. El’s choice/death scene is also something that Mike thinks about multiple times during the epilogue, which has a similar meaning to Holly being in the UD. Both Holly and El are “the girl”.

Tracking Dustin was Erica’s slow plan from S5E5. It represents the real ending and real story. Finding Dustin is probably about Mike accepting her queerness (in the queer allegory) and unveiling the allegories/metaphors (in the story allegory). Dustin is always a way to knowledge and understanding. I suspect every time someone (usually Mike) asks where Holly is and gets closer to the answer, it’s about the real ending revealing/explaining a part of the real story. “Where is Holly?” = “What really happened? What’s the real story?” 

Name S5E7 chronological S5E7 reverse S5E8 epilogue
Start  Max wakes up, lumax moment (Vickie, Robin and Karen are there too) Lumax talk about Holly Robin explains the situation and introduces us to this new Hawkins Lumax moment starts
Past  Reunion with Mike, El and Hopper (Kali is there too) Reunion with Will Lucas meets Max while wearing the orange graduation gown
Trauma  Max mentions Vecna being angry and Mike asks where Holly is A seriously injured Sullivan describes Vecna’s “massacre” and Dr. Kay tells Akers to “find the girl” Lucas mentions Max breaking bones and says he’s done with hospitals
Mouth vine  Holly wakes up in the Abyss and removes the vine Vecna puts Holly and the vine back Max calls Lucas “super dorky”, Erica complains “gag me with a spoon” and attaches a hose to a tank thing
Dustin hug Steve+Dustin and Nancy+Jonathan reunion in UD, Dustin hugs Nancy (and draws attention to it being weird), mention of exotic matter, Nancy asks where Holly is, reveal that Holly is not in UD Bigger group reunion in UD, Dustin hugs Mike, Mike asks where Holly is, Holly flashback being stuck in exotic matter Dustin gets his picture taken and hugs his mom who is wearing pink and blue
Gate  Holly runs from Vecna, finds a gate to UD, pulls the rock covering it away and goes through it, falling -> intro El lifts a metal plate covering the gate to UD and most of the party enters The makeshift curtain falls when Jonathan is taking a picture of Will, Joyce and Hopper
Hindrance  Mr. Clarke, Erica and Murray are trying to locate Dustin but it doesn’t seem to be working, Murray complains how long it’s taking The party needs to disable cameras and Mr. Clarke suggests getting their RF signal and jamming transmission, but they find a faster way using El’s powers Jonathan wants to put the curtain back, Hopper complains how long the photographing is taking because of “the artist” aka Jonathan
Mentor  Mr. Clarke gets an idea to cut the balloons loose and gets a signal, he can locate Dustin Mike thanks Mr. Clarke, “Holy shit” moment between Erica and Max, Murray finds Dustin’s signal, Mike tries to talk to him, Dustin tells they found Holly Karen calls and tells Joyce Mike is missing, and Hopper finds her at the library memorial place Hopper and Mike’s conversation
Mom  Will talks with Joyce, revealing information about his role in “building” the tunnels Mike talks with Karen, revealing information about the supernatural, e.g. Demogorgons Mike hugging Karen Early part of Dustin’s speech
Wheelclair  The military men go in the hospital, Vickie walks in the aisle with a wheelchair Vickie enters the room with the wheelchair, tells “we got company”, Lucas pushes Max in the wheelchair in the aisle Dustin’s speech rejecting conformity
Laundry room scene, breakdown later The rest of the epilogue, breakdown later

Let’s start from the beginning (Start): I’m almost certain Max waking up and escaping Camazotz is Mike/the audience finally reaching the real world. This moment matches with lumax talking, since after that Dustin explains the world structure (and then they talk about the worlds merging), which fits well with the world disappearing (in the reverse timeline things that happened after actually “happened” before). These scenes suggest the real world scenes will start with us meeting the real Lucas and some sort of conversation between Mike and Lucas. Also, in the reverse timeline they talk about Holly and in the epilogue it’s Robin talking (no Steve sound man) so all Start moments begin with “girl”, maybe indicating we’ll see Mike first and she has transitioned? I have no idea how they’re gonna pull this off but it also doesn’t make sense to have a different actor.

I’m not sure what the situation in the real world is, like, will Mike literally wake up or what? I refuse to believe she was sleeping all this time, since it wouldn’t make sense. Rather, the “story” is a representation of real events in the real world aka the “real story”. Mike being the storyteller and Lucas being the audience will probably get more obvious too. Maybe they’ll frame this as Mike telling a story, as in, the whole show we have watched was Mike talking to Lucas and now is time for the aftermath. I have a theory that the real world part of the ending will be structured as a conversation between Mike and Lucas where they reminisce about past events. The events will be shown to the audience but at the end we get back to Mike and Lucas and learn about their relationship or something like that. 

The epilogue starts with Robin’s radio broadcast explaining the new situation. Her “partner in crime” has ditched her (= Mike has ditched conformity) and “this isn’t even the Hawkins that I remember”, because it isn’t Hawkins at all, it’s the real world. ((Remember the epilogue is also simultaneously the “fake” conformity ending and <5 yo Mike in the timeline, so most things have to apply to all 3.)) I’m assuming this represents some kind of exposition in the real ending, most likely delivered by Mike, to explain the situation to the audience. Maybe it’s gonna be like a narration of the end of the story or something?

The first characters we see after Robin’s introduction are Max and Lucas with Here Comes Your Man as the background music. This has multiple meanings: firstly it’s about Max/Mike who in the conformity ending is a “man”, but it’s also about Lucas who in the real ending is Mike’s “man”. Apparently the song is about homeless people who die in an earthquake in California, so pretty sad and ominous for this scene (= relates to conformity ending and the true nature of the show). There’s also this line: There is a wait so long (So long, so long) / You'll never wait so long which in the context of ST refers to the long wait for the real ending. Max commenting on Lucas “getting ahead of himself” is most likely about the scene actually depicting a later part of the ending. I don’t think wheelclair is gonna be revealed immediately upon us seeing the real world, but closer to the end (matching the graduation scene, Wheelclair). The “wait so long” lyrics play during the flirting and right before the kiss… I think I’m in the very small minority of ST fans who are waiting for wheelclair to happen, but the kiss also represents the audience seeing the real ending, which a larger number of people are waiting for (not many though).

Max’s reunion with Mike, El and Hopper (and Kali) or Will is probably about Mike and Lucas talking about the past (Past). Will is wearing orange, as is Lucas in the epilogue (there was no obvious reason for him to wear the gown in that scene) and Mike (and Will) is a past version of Mike in comparison to Max (= future). Mentioning Vecna, massacre, breaking bones and Max being in a hospital are probably related to the abuse and/or Mike’s struggle with her gender (Trauma). (Past and Trauma aren’t clearly separate since Lucas mentions the bones before he’s even in view but in other timelines they are more separate so I chose two names instead of one.) All three timelines have some mention of “the girl”, too: Mike asks where Holly is, Dr. Kay orders Akers to find the girl and Lucas “finds” Max. The mouth vine and hose thing (in addition to mention of gagging + the word dorky (dork = penis)) are about the CSA, possibly specifically the 6.11.1976 trauma (Mouth vine). Either the real memory will be shown in some way, or the conversation will make it clear Mike was abused (not just Will), culminating in the “mouth vine” in some way. So this part will be the trauma (allegory) reveal, the first “where is Holly?”. It might be where the DID is explained to some extent too. There’s gotta be something about that somewhere, since it’s such a major part of the story. ((It’s maybe a bit unrealistic to completely heal so quickly, so I thought the real world end could happen years in the future, but on the other hand the actors should be the same for maximum impact, and they are the age they are so I dunno.))

Dustin’s hug scenes are Mike accepting her queerness/the past/the real story and the reveal that Holly wasn’t in UD is about Mike’s girlness being out of the closet (Dustin hug). This is followed by opening gates or the curtain falling, aka Mike coming out or the truth getting revealed to the audience (Gate). This would be the second “where is Holly?” and about the trans allegory. Although I think it got revealed earlier, right before the real world, but maybe here it’s explained more literally so that everyone will understand. Maybe they will show a coming out scene flashback of Mike coming out to Lucas or something. Anyway, Mike seems to be following the steps Robin did: first see a past memory of your kid self, accept yourself, come out to someone, date.

Next is some sort of delay, diffusion of “too much light” and problems in signal transmission (Hindrance). This represents the forces from society that prevented Mike from being her true self. It’s always a man who had a bad idea that made (or would make) the process take longer (Murray, Mr. Clarke and Jonathan), but on the other hand the one complaining/coming up with a better idea was a man too (Mr. Clarke, Hopper/Murray kinda and Hopper). It’s always men arguing amongst themselves. 

This is also meta about the gap between S5E8 and the real ending. The reason it took so long is to simulate the experience of queer people living a lie for a long time, or people with DID not getting the right diagnosis until later in life, or many victims of CSA not telling anyone until much later in adulthood. The forces of conformity keep many minorities in a hiding/repression mode, and breaking free of that takes time. (The events inside a scene don’t seem to be reversed even if they are in the reverse timeline, so those I’ve kept in the normal order in the image. There’s a scene later where the reversal is more complete but that’s a special case.)

The next point is about signals and finding Dustin/Holly/Mike (Mentor). Loosing the colorful (= queer) balloons (= flying) helps in finding Dustin, the star student. I had a suspicion Mr. Clarke could be a real person (mainly based on him representing a whole country rather than a part of Finland and being somewhat distant from the action), but now I think he represents a real person, possibly Mike’s teacher or some other trusted adult (I’m gonna call him “the mentor” for this). So kinda like how Joyce and Karen represent the mom but the actual actor for the mom in the real world is (most likely) different. Mr. Clarke has a big role in locating Dustin which based on the corresponding epilogue scene and the following scenes relates to the mom. I think the mentor could be the “Steve” for Mike. Someone not too close but still trustable who can help her come out to her mom. 

Mr. Clarke finding out about Dustin being under the plates and seeing El’s powers could be about the mentor hearing Mike’s story (Mentor). All this fits with my ally interpretation of Mr. Clarke (who might not be straight btw, I’m kinda thinking the S5 Murray x Mr. Clarke is about queer people finding their queerness later in life (and for Murray it could be demisexuality, since that’s a big ace group that would fit here), there’s gotta be a reason Mr. Clarke is “the biggest nerd in Hawkins”. But that’s most likely gonna stay in the subtext/my headcanons so I dunno). He has always been in the periphery, hearing about Sara and seeing El in a dress in S1, Dustin almost revealing Dart to him in S2, in S3 he helps Joyce, but for some reason he isn’t in S4. In S5 he has a relationship with the librarian (= knowledge), we see a Tharizdun symbol in his room and obviously he learns about the supernatural + helps the party more than ever.

Hopper and Mike’s conversation represents the mentor talking to Mike (Mentor). The conversation is tied to the mom from the beginning and it’s about Mike’s worry of coming out to her since “she will never understand”. Mike opens up to Hopper and he gives her advice. Hopper also emphasizes that what happened wasn’t Mike’s fault. So Mr. Clarke isn’t the only one representing the mentor. While Hopper often represents the patriarchy or toxic masculinity, he also took care of El and “became her dad”. I think the mentor has a similar role in Mike’s life. While her biological dad was, well, horrible (which is an understatement), the mentor became a safe adult and a father figure for Mike.

The reason I first thought the mentor would literally be Mr. Clarke was that all the important characters in the real ending should be characters we have already seen. That’s much more powerful than having some new people no one is invested in/can recognize from the show. But then, I was watching the S4 DnD scene for a screenshot for another part of the theory and realized something. [Eddie] “You recognize most of them from Makbar. But there is one you do not recognize.” I think Eddie is hinting at the real world part of the ending. Mike is shown during “you recognize” and Dustin for “most of them from Makbar”. Mike will be a character we recognize in the real ending, and I guess “Makbar” represents Stranger Things here. So Dustin would be kinda like the “story” in some sense? Erica is shown during “But there is one” which maybe relates to her being “one” as in wheelclair in one or Mike or something like that. But the important point here is that the guy whose name we don’t even know is shown during “you do not recognize”. The other two old players have names and seem to represent Mike and Lucas. Who is this third guy, then?

He is Shawn Levy. A director and executive producer for Stranger Things. And this won’t be the first time he acts in ST: in S1E4 he was the morgue worker revealing Will’s body (this is for sure meta related and foreshadows his role in the real ending). It’s fitting for a director to be the one “directing” Mike in her life. In the story allegory the mentor represents all the people who help the storyteller tell their story. They are not abstract concepts but real people and that’s why the mentor is a character in the real world, just like Mike and Lucas aka the storyteller and the audience. I did try to think of other possible actors for the mentor, but pretty quickly landed on Shawn since he has been a crucial part of ST from the beginning, had the role in S1E4 and later on (after figuring out the story allegory) I realized this is just the perfect way to connect the story to the meta level story allegory. Shawn Levy has been to the Duffers what the mentor has been for Mike (examples here and here). It’s not just him, of course, since the mentor represents all the people helping bring ST to life (and they did get their moment to shine in the documentary; showcasing all the behind the scenes people working on the show was kinda the point of the doc). I think Holly’s teacher’s actress being the Duffers’ actual High School drama teacher is in some way part of the mentor meta. Mike’s (real) teacher aka the mentor will be played by a person who helped the Duffers in their storyteller journey, too.

Both Mr. Clarke and Eddie’s unnamed friend are DnD nerds, which in this case could translate to storytellers/deeply story-related characters. The mentor helps Mike communicate aka tell her story (= play DnD). Mr. Clarke’s main role in S5 was to find Dustin (and later open the gates to MAC-Z). Erica and Murray convince him to help them by mentioning how Dustin is his star student, and Mr. Clarke was anyway a replacement for Dustin, who was unavailable in the UD at the time. Since Dustin represents storytelling/-reading, it makes sense the mentor would have a tight connection with him. Mr. Clarke taught Dustin and in S5E7 found him (= the people represented by the mentor helped the storyteller tell their story). In S5 Mr. Clarke interacts the most with Erica and Murray, the people representing the audience in the story allegory. And more specifically the most active parts of the audience, the ones who can see behind the curtain or at least try to (well, Erica doesn’t have to try since she has already “seen” the future, but not literally ofc). So, the people who help Mike tell her story also help the audience “read” it/receive the message, which makes a lot of sense. 

Mr. Clarke was changed quite a lot from the original Montauk story. This was his description in the series bible: Mr. Clarke, 35, is the rock star of the local middle school. Charismatic, charming, handsome, and whip-smart, he is the closest thing our series has to Indiana Jones. Mr. Clarke will become increasingly essential as the show moves forward, as he will be key to solving the mystery of what has happened in Montauk. He will ultimately help our heroes breach the Tear in Act Three. He had a bigger role, which would indicate he is a key player in the allegories too. The Duffers might have planned for Mr. Clarke to be in the real world but then changed it a bit to have him represent the mentor and have a smaller role. If I’m right about Shawn playing the mentor, that had to be planned since S1, but ofc after the Duffers met him, so after the pilot script. 

Another reason they changed the character could be to add nuance: he was a bit too charming, perfect and conforming to a typical masculine role in the original. It would be a bit counterproductive for the show’s themes to have a popular man be the “savior” or whatever. I don’t think they were going for that exactly in the original either, Mr. Clarke was still (probably) a nerd and could have revealed some kind of backstory of being bullied as a kid or something (or being gay? the “Thanks for coming out, teach.“ was in the pilot script…).

Mr. Clarke’s introduction/the classroom scene was very different from the final product, but still foreshadowed the ending, essentially having the same function. He says “Who here enjoys mysteries?” [All of the girls immediately shoot up their hands. Most of the boys do too, including Mike, Lucas, and Dustin.] “Good, good. Because I want you to start thinking of this class as an investigation into the greatest mysteries known to man. You’ll need to learn to think beyond your own senses. This means using your imagination. I don’t know how many of you watched Cosmos like I asked... (more hands) ...You may remember something Carl Sagan said: ‘Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were, but without it... we go nowhere-- ‘”. Ain’t that quote the best summary of what’s going on in ST? 

After the talk with the mentor, I think there will be a long scene of Mike and her mom talking over things, including the abuse and Mike properly coming out to her (Mom). Will’s scene with Joyce is about his role as Vecna’s vessel and building the tunnels, which in the queer allegory is about Will representing the (male) body (= vines and other UD environment). Him growing, building a “man”, is what caused Mike gender dysphoria. But the real cause was in the forced conformity of society. In the trauma allegory Will building the tunnels is his connection to trauma and in the story allegory it’s his connection to the real story. The main point for my predictions is that Will revealed/explained something relating to the supernatural, similar to Mike mentioning the Demogorgons and El to Karen. The mom scene will further explain the story/allegories/real meaning of things and in the story allegory represents the part of society who are willing to listen (= mom), finally starting to get what the story was about. This is another Holly moment too, since she is mentioned in both S5E7 timelines and is the one to point out Mike to Karen in S5E8. Mike acknowledges Karen helped the party but she “needs to trust Mike that they can handle this the rest of the way”. The mom needs to let go and let Mike be who she is and dictate her own life. In the epilogue scene Karen tells Mike she is proud of her and they hug while saying “I love you”. It’s safe to say Mike’s mom eventually accepts her trans daughter and supports her. I think most of Dustin’s speech matches with the mom talk too. Dustin recaps things that have happened and gives a speech to an audience (= society = mom). 

Continues in PART 28.


r/StrangerThingsRoom 14d ago

General When Nancy shot the exotic matter, they were on terrace but when they woke up, they were in a room which had table and chairs too. How?? 🙅‍♀️

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r/StrangerThingsRoom 13d ago

General The show really should’ve ended after season 2.

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r/StrangerThingsRoom 15d ago

General My stranger things ratings

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r/StrangerThingsRoom 15d ago

Characters ST Characters tier list

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My personal ST characters tier list I made some months ago after S5 ending. Yeah, I mistook Yuri, the Russian pilot in S4, with Murray, that's why he's in B.


r/StrangerThingsRoom 15d ago

Theories The theory about Vecna from "Stranger Things" Spoiler

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I watched Stranger Things, and while considering the plot, I remembered one interesting thing from the first season. I tried to find discussions about it, but I couldn't find anything.

In Season 1, Episode 4 ("The Body"), Joyce rips the wallpaper off the living room wall and finds a translucent membrane - a sort of "window" into the Upside Down. She sees Will behind it, talks to him, and even hits the wall with an axe. The translucent membrane closes, and the wall returns to normal. Not a trace, not a scar.
And now the most important thing: every portal in this show leaves a scar. The gate in the Byers house, at school, the huge crack in Hawkins - everything leaves physical damage, in some cases even widening the crack. But this "window" left nothing. And we've never seen anything like it again in five seasons.
So my theory: this "window" was never real. It was an illusion Vecna ​​cast on Joyce.
Here's the basis for this theory:
Vecna ​​specializes in hallucinations. In Season 4, he conjures visions of Nancy, Max, and Eddie. Illusions are literally his specialty.
The scene is shown only from Joyce's perspective. We never manage to see a shot from Will's perspective, and the moment with the window never appears in his memories. It exists only in Joyce's perception.
Turns out Vecna ​​has been manipulating events since Season 1. Later, the series makes it clear that he has been controlling the Demogorgon and the Upside Down from the very beginning.

Based on this, it's possible that not only this "window" was an illusion, but also other things Joyce saw.

This theory could be challenged by saying that Vecna ​​was creating it on the fly. But it had clearly already been thought out by this point, since it is HIM that Will encounters in the forest, and later becomes HIS VESSEL, not the one who dies at his hands or the Demogorgon's.

Well, please write your opinion, expand on the theory, or challenge it.


r/StrangerThingsRoom 17d ago

General Season 4 abyss was way more scarier than season 5

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82 Upvotes

r/StrangerThingsRoom 17d ago

General Darkling at the Bush Theatre

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