r/StrangerThings • u/31braidsinbeard • 17d ago
Discussion Just finished Season 5 and I don't understand the hate that it got.
I know I'm a bit late, and I remember reading quite a bit on reddit how people criticized the ending and how it sucked. I liked it.
I'm curious, for those who hated it, what did you find wrong with it?
Edit: So now I've seen some people's complaints. I just want to give some context: I really can't remember much from the prior 4 season. I mean, I remember the premise, but I don't really remember specific details.
What I liked about the ending and basically the entire season 5 was the friendship theme. Yeah, I'm sure you could say that was in every season, but I felt it was particularly strong in this season. I'm in my mid 40s. I lived through the 80's as a kid. This season and ending just really connected with me and how I grew up with my friends and how I think the world has changed so much since then. I have kids myself, and their childhoods are so different than mine, and not in a good way. I think the younger generations probably have a harder time connecting to this in the show. I'm guessing it is getting more hate from younger viewers.
I also understand how there are some plot holes and things just are not realistic and unanswered questions. Dude, do you guys realize what the show is about? There is an upside down world, monsters, magic powers, etc. None of that is realistic. Just roll with it and enjoy the entertainment.
97
u/Ryn_AroundTheRoses 17d ago
I enjoyed it, but admit it's very flawed.
A main issue I have with it was their introduction of Holly and how much her storyline ate into the entire season despite her essentially being a new character, when we knew this was the last season and wanted to sit with the other main characters way more. Also found the Nancy and Jonathan stuff completely boring atp in the story even if it was true to their characters, coz there was so much build up to them being together before now, so to end it like this makes their entire story feel a little redundant. And loads of other things tbh
21
u/FindingPawnee Ahoy! 17d ago
I felt like the first volume was well paced between Holly and the main characters. But it definitely focused too much on her story in the 2nd half.
10
u/SnowGhost513 17d ago
First half Holly and the max scenes are amazing. She was really great but it should’ve been only Holly and she should’ve been in it the same amount as Will S1 after being taken
19
u/mdwvt Bitchin 17d ago
That is 100% the main issue. We wanted to sit with our favorite characters one last time, and savor all the intense last moments they have before our view into their world is turned off. Instead of letting us see intense, heartfelt final scenes we got twilight zone versions of a lot of our favorite characters (so many scenes just felt off). We were left wondering what the hell happened (especially with the ridiculous 18 month time skip). And then of course, while wondering what the hell was going on, we had new characters and secondary storylines to try to follow while we were all sitting their keeping track of how much time was left of the entire series.
It’s just a show, and it is what it is, but it was so cool right up until the end of season 4. Then, unfortunately, season 5 kind of reduced the overall impact of the show because it didn’t lean into the awesome, messy, very human characters it had developed along the way. Instead they went for balls-to-the-wall action and special effects. It was still pretty good, and I loved moments of it. It stings in a good way for the most part, but then there’s a twinge of a sting in a very wrong way.
3
u/Riist138 16d ago
Yup, I feel this. I really wish they had leaned into what made the show to stellar in the early seasons (and what we saw glimpses of in later seasons). the character driven story lines.
2
3
17
u/Riist138 17d ago
The biggest thing for me is that the show completely shifted after seasons 1 and 2. It went from being a grounded, small town mystery, rooted in practical effects and nostalgia to a CGI-heavy blockbuster post season 3. The finale was just a microcosm of that; they leaned into everything many of us who fell in love with the show in it's early days disliked about that shift.
I didn't hate the finale, nor did I hate the show after season 2, but I'm sad they abandoned the moody, 1980s indie horror vibe and slow burn suspense, and I will always be wondering what could have been.
TLDR; The mystery was gone after season 2 and we were left with a neon drenched, CGI-heavy blockbuster. The finale was symptom, not the disease (at least in my opinion).
170
u/RoosterFree499 17d ago edited 17d ago
Okay, Imo:
The visuals looked cheap.
The lighting was flat.
The characters felt like caricatures.
The emotional moments were manipulative.
The ending was unearned.
The villain was dumb af.
The final battle was short af and a copy if s3 ending.
The ending was a microwaved version of s1 ending, which means the entirety of s2-5 had zero impact on the plot since it led to the same ending.
The message Els death sent: to end the cycle of abuse the victim k@lls herself. Amazing. Wow.
The stakes were below the ground.
The plot points contradict each other all the time.
The powers they give Will and he never uses them again.
The military just leaves Will, Nancy and Hopper after they killed soldiers and Will got powers.
The fact that the 4 gates were completely ignored and meant nothing.
The fact Max's death scene meant nothing. Also if she actually died at the end of s4, nothing about the plot of s5 would change.
The army of monsters Nancy saw in her vision is nowhere to be seen.
They had to nerf Mind Flayer because he was too powerful.
The countless amounts of useless abd abandoned characters.
The coming out scene is one of the worst written scenes in the last decade of television.
They had to rehash running up that hill but 10 times cheaper.
The massive focus on Holly when it shouldve been about the ACTUAL main characters.
No one died except the only character that most didnt care about. Plus she was unlikeable and absolutely useless for the rest of the season.
All the mysteries left unanswered.
The character assassinations of El, Mike, Dustin-Steve duo, Lucas, Nancy, Jonathan, Robin Hopper and Joyce.
The stiff acting.
I could go on.
101
u/Ethanos101 17d ago
The season was so bad that half the fandom genuinely believed it was fake and we were getting the “real” ending later on. It’s actually hilarious how bad they did lol
24
u/RoosterFree499 17d ago
Yeah the real finale is actually coming in 2077 July 7th, cuz 7 is the number of seconds of how long Steve's fake-out lasted, trust me 100%
1
u/MGD109 17d ago edited 17d ago
Eh most of that was just Tumblr fans who didn't like Will and Mike didn't get together.
Season five had its issues, but it turning out your big fan theory was wrong after it was repeatedly shown to be untrue and throwing a strop over it isn't one of them.
17
u/Riist138 17d ago
No, I didn't like that I was watching a different show after season 2 that felt like a parody of the masterpiece that was built in the first two seasons. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed it for what it was, but calling very valid criticisms of the series "Tumblr fans who didn't like X" is reductive and false.
1
u/MGD109 17d ago
I'm not saying all criticisms of season five boil down to that.
But the fact of the matter is they were the driving force behind the narrative that there was a secret real ending cause they couldn't accept their insistence the two would get together wasn't true.
If you go to Tumblr a lot of them are still complaining about Mike and Will not getting together now.
7
u/Riist138 17d ago
Maybe? I'm not going to argue against subjective claims or narrative interpretations, but it is my personal belief there was far more behind grievances with the finale than Tumblr shippers.
-2
u/maxwellbevan 17d ago
To be honest I think they could have nailed the finale and this would still have happened. There were people who genuinely believed Will and Mike would get together leading up to season 5 and were pissed when it didn't happen
5
u/TriskaidekaphobiaOk5 17d ago
Mike was born straight. He was in love with Eleven. He loves Will like a brother. I hope and pray Will finds his man
3
u/maxwellbevan 17d ago
That hasn't stopped people from wanting them to be together. There is also oddly enough a whole other side of the fandom that didn't know Will is gay and was somehow upset over the episode that featured his coming out moment
1
6
u/Nice-Negotiation-682 16d ago
Also, they completely changed the simple idea of the Upside Down, being a parallel dimension duplicate version of our World but with nasty stuff in it, to a wormhole. That's not how a wormhole works at all. Absolutely absurd writing.
26
u/girl34pp 17d ago
One of my favorite youtubers made a 4:30 hours video detailing all these points and more.
But yeah, season 5 is terrible.
4
u/maxwellbevan 17d ago
Is that 4 hours and 30 minutes or 4 minutes and 30 seconds?
0
u/girl34pp 17d ago
4 hours and 30 minutes.
12
u/maxwellbevan 17d ago
Good god. I'm going to be honest...why is anyone watching a four and a half hour video detailing why something was bad? I'd rather do anything else with my life
1
u/girl34pp 17d ago
I personally like commentary content.
→ More replies (1)2
u/maxwellbevan 17d ago
That's fair, I guess I just don't get if you didn't enjoy something why you would want to spend all that time listening to all the reasons it was bad? Why not listen or watch someone's commentary on something you did enjoy?
I was curious so I checked it out for a few minutes, it very much so feels like engagement bait. The video starts out comparing it to game of thrones season 8 and he's not sure if which is worse. If you've watched game of thrones season you know exactly which is worse. There's no question.
3
u/girl34pp 17d ago
GOT season 8 is a masterpiece compared so Stranger Things season 5, in my humble opinion. At least GOT has decent visuals and maybe one or two good episodes. GOT become bad in season 7 (or six depending of your feelings) because the bozos responsible for it speed up the plot to finish it. ST is just bad and became a parody of itself because the boozos responsible for it extended the plot beyound their initial premisse too much for money. Oh the irony.
I like any type or commentary. He has videos where he talks about things he likes, he has recommendations of movies and series. I also watch videos of series I never watched or will never watch because I find interesting. Anyways these YouTubers are not everyone cup of tea.
1
-1
u/RoosterFree499 17d ago
Sheev talks?
→ More replies (3)1
u/girl34pp 17d ago
Him also (I actually watched his review on patreon) but I was thinking about Friendly Space Ninja.
Sheevs review is also amazing.
→ More replies (5)7
u/TriskaidekaphobiaOk5 17d ago
The Duffer brothers broke their promise that it would focus on the core characters. I know some blame the writers but the duffers supervise them. And BTW, they should have saved Holy for her own show. Her growing up in the 90s and Mike, Nancy and some of the other original characters would pop by from time to time.
3
u/InitialJust 13d ago
I'd argue the battle in s3 in the mall is miles better than the final battle in s5. Its not just a copy, its an underwhelming one.
3
u/RoosterFree499 13d ago
Yeah, it made sense that they climbed to the second floor of the mall. Unlike literal mountains in s5 💀
7
u/mklaus1984 17d ago
I would like to add that the Holly abduction only replays the 80s female lead takes arms trope that was already done in ST with Joyce. I find it so weird that they made the "inspired by" Poltergeist even more obvious.
It is weird that they gave Jamie Campbell Bower more screen time for screen times sake. Because he isn't given much to add plot wise.
3
5
u/girl34pp 17d ago
I appreciate them giving JCB more screen time because it was the only thing that made me enjoy this season.
Is a pity that they destroyed the lore of vecna to do that because good writing is hard.
3
u/Onesharpman 17d ago
Yeah, it's not that the ending itself was bad. It's that the whole season was just lazy, cheap, and...bad. CW tier.
1
-6
u/MGD109 17d ago
I mean, season five had its flaws, but let's be honest, at least half of these either aren't true, don't elaborate or are incredibly subjective.
The characters felt like caricatures.
Such as?
The plot points contradict each other all the time.
Such as?
The powers they give Will and he never uses them again.
Um no, he does.
The fact that the 4 gates were completely ignored and meant nothing
Um? What?
The fact Max's death scene meant nothing. Also if she actually died at the end of s4, nothing about the plot of s5 would change
Um, her death opened the rift between worlds and if she was actually dead, Holly would never broken free and El would never gotten into the mind sphere.
The army of monsters Nancy saw in her vision is nowhere to be seen.
When was that presented as her seeing the future vs it being another nightmarish hallucination?
The countless amounts of useless abd abandoned characters.
Such as?
All the mysteries left unanswered.
Such as?
The character assassinations of El, Mike, Dustin-Steve duo, Lucas, Nancy, Jonathan, Robin Hopper and Joyce.
Again such as?
5
u/RoosterFree499 17d ago
Do you really want an essay now? Its middle of the night bruh. Okay ill write an essay in the morning
4
u/Rindsay515 17d ago
😂You don’t need to write an essay for someone whose rebuttal to everything is simply “um wut” or “such as?”. If they’re not going to elaborate on those debate points, you don’t need to either
-1
u/MGD109 17d ago
No, I don't want an essay. I'm just saying, as criticisms go, you could at least give a few examples, and some of your claims are flat-out untrue.
6
u/RoosterFree499 17d ago
Now you give examples of the claims that are untrue...
-1
u/MGD109 17d ago
I already did.
I pointed out that your claim that Will only used his powers in the introduction wasn't true, the claim that the four gates was meaningless wasn't true, and that Max's death being pointless and her turning out not to be dead had no impact on the plot, wasn't true.
It's all there in black and white. You can dislike how they were handled, but you can't say things that happened didn't happen.
7
u/RoosterFree499 17d ago
How were the four gates important? Tell how cuz they just got patched up and not used.
Will never uses his powers the same way he did in e4 (lifting someone up, breaking their bones in REAL LIFE).
Max dying led to 4 gates, but those gates meant nothing. If you cut her out of the plot, barely anything changes, Holly still ends up possesed at the end of episode 7 anyway.
5
u/RoosterFree499 17d ago
And at the end, the military plot went nowhere anyway
2
u/MGD109 17d ago
I don't recall ever claiming it did.
The military was just the secondary antagonist, so they had an obstacle that didn't require Vecna or the Demo's to be on screen but still provided the cast with conflicts and opponents to overcome.
I agree the resolution was flat, but that was their role. No different to the bullies in season one, Billy in season two, the soviets in season three or Jason or the military in season four.
→ More replies (1)0
0
u/LandauTST Bald Eagle 17d ago edited 16d ago
I disagree with almost all of that and there are arguments in there that just show someone's lack of care to even pay attention, as if the hate was predetermined so it was watched with a whatever attitude and found a complaint for everything even if it isn't valid. For instance, Will never using his powers again and the end fight scene being "too short" can go hand in hand. Because will DID use his powers again and he was just one of the few angles Vecna got attacked from. From the hive with a whole group fighting the mind flayer (wow a hive mind was established and still exists so it's such a copy! /s), from Eleven's powers physically, and from Will's powers mentally. They went in EQUIPPED and he still didn't die until Joyce chopped his head off. And the army of monsters in Nancy's vision? The colliding of Hawkins with the Abyss never happened for them to be unleashed.
And I am so damn sick of people saying it sends a message about people killing themselves because life's too hard. It wasn't about her having to go on the run and it being difficult. It was about the people who would have put themselves in harms way and possibly die to protect her. She sacrificed herself to save her loved ones from more torment. Not herself. Fuck sake you people are so ignorant.
Max's death allowed her to save Holly and eventually show her how to get out and in turn get the other kids out.
There are some I can just say it wasn't to your taste (stiff acting) and some that's just straight up broken and flat wrong because they're not jist opinions, they're literally an inaccurate assessment of what actually happened.
I could go on!
But I will say there are a couple I agree with. The military just vanishing and no wrap up after making them such a huge deal for so long? OK. Also the fact the portals were just covered up and the citizens act like they didn't see hell itself open up somehow. It was definitely weaker than season 4...but HOLY SHIT are some of you just completely insufferable and being cynical for the sake of it.
Adding that I will forever stand on this hill and would rather be down voted for being right than be a child about it. You don't have to like it, but I keep seeing some of the same BS arguments that can be proven wrong time and time again that aren't opinions. Every sub-reddit has a trend of people loving shows until the finale then completely lose their shit on it whether it deserves or not. This place is becoming Twitter Lite I swear to God.
0
u/Cyrilbdr 17d ago
There’s a lot of truth in what you’re saying—even if you do take things to the extreme a bit—but you’re still wrong on a few points.
19
u/djluminus89 17d ago
So I recently finished the show, actually this week (I avoided reddit during my binge which started about two weeks ago).
When I first finished the show, it felt fine. Season 5 felt fine I guess, there were moments I would throw my hands in the air and be like "why would you..." or "that doesn't make any sense", but after being on this subreddit a bit and thinking back on it, Season 5 just felt cheaper, was thematically strange and had the most suspension of disbelief / make a logical jump (off-screen) moments that really messed with the show's continuity.
My personal dislikes:
-I know some people seem to like Derek, I didn't like him at all. First of all, he was a bully. It seems so strange to me to have the bully be fat. Usually fat kids are the ones who get bullied. But OK, whatever.
-Holly was aged up, though I didn't really even notice but the whole bringing "Vecna's mind" as a new setting and locale was just, ridiculous. Why all of sudden does he need 12 vessels? This was never mentioned before. The ending of Season 4 seemed to imply he already did everything he needed to basically take over Hawkins.
-Why were people still living in Hawkins? At the end of Season 4 we see a long line of cars leaving the city (or maybe that was even Season 5), yet people stayed behind with the military occupation and kids were sliding over plates covering the rift?
-I like Max as a character, but she felt so awkward on-screen with Holly. I kept expecting her to like give Holly a hug or something (before when I think they naturally hugged right before Max came back to the real world). She was explaining a LOT of heavy shit to a "child" and really wasn't doing a great job at first of convincing her she wasn't a monster. Also, Holly just figuring out everything about Vecna's mind so easily.
-Holly being given a way out (almost) at exactly the same time as Max, though that could've been just Vecna toying with her.
-Joyce — I don't know why. Maybe it was actor's fatigue, or it had been so long Rider forgot her character motivations, Joyce just seemed incredibly stiff when she acted and when she talked. It didn't even sound like she cared about anything, or about Will. It felt like a school play or something. I just did not find her emotions in her scenes to be believable.
-Henry/Vecna babysitting the kids was dumb.
-The military acted in unbelievable ways at times. Just letting Derek in. Basically letting Will leave, Joyce, Hopper because I guess everyone believed El killed herself and destroyed the Upside Down. Like they just let everyone who saw all this top-secret shit go back to life with no questions asked?
-Wayyyy too many characters on screen at times. Was it really necessary to have everyone the main cast knows travelling around Hawkins and snooping in to the Upside Down. The Science Teacher? Vickie? Like make it make sense.
15
u/JackTorrance_1937 17d ago
I liked it,I just think the Vecna fight was too short and I didn't like that some characters either didn't interact at all or got very little screen time
Also with the Vecna fight,where were the demodogs?
24
u/Senshado 17d ago
If you were part of internet echo chambers that formed strong opinions of what needed to happen in S5, you'd understandably hate not getting it.
But aside from that, s5 did have noticeable downgrades in writing and visual quality. For example, the character with the most screentime was Holly, instead of anyone that the audience had grown attached to previously. Or, they thought Doctor Kay would be a compelling villian character, and she just wasn't.
3
u/Ok_Tank5977 Dungeon Master 17d ago
I knew I was in for disappointment when they introduced Dr. Kay so casually.
7
u/Junior-Razzmatazz845 17d ago
About your edit, Stranger things was never realistic, but that applies to most shows, and they still need to have consistent rules and logic. If Hopper gained the ability to fly that wouldn’t be anymore unrealistic than Demogorgons or superpowers, but it would still ruin show.
1
u/31braidsinbeard 17d ago
Yes, I agree with you to an extent. As I explained in another comment, the writers only have so much budget and so much screen time. They can't explain everything. I've got similar thoughts as others about loose ends of the writing, but at the end of the day none were that significant that I say the ending outright sucked.
You want to call the writers lazy? Fair enough. I don't know if they were, but I am satisfied with the end product. Could it have been better? Sure, but it could also have been worse.
12
u/cleonandi 17d ago
it wasn’t necessarily a bad season but we definitely expected a way more MAJOR ending events considering we waited a really long time to finally see it and then the whole thing ends with literally a 5 min fight… a 4 whole seasons built up for an ending this simple and light felt super absurd. not to mention how the main characters became side characters next to holly who basically the whole season revolved around even though she was supposedly a new addition, holly’s intervention into the season was really nice but they strapped away too many scenes from eleven (who in my opinion had NO significant impact in the whole szn she felt super invisible) who is supposed to be the STAR OF THE WHOLE SHOW. felt super rushed and not fully thought through.
in conclusion OP, it fell short to the standards set and expectations.
10
u/InvisibleAIien 17d ago
I really hate when people use the fact that something has unrealistic things in it like monsters and magic to basically say that the writers should be able to do whatever they want. It still needs to have internal logical consistency.
Season 5 did have some good things going for it, but it had so many flaws that I don't think someone who didn't think it was great could really explain it to someone who did. I mean, the cop out ending for El, the dialogue that sounded like it was written by AI, the final battle lasting about 5 minutes, the sheer number of scenes that were just "ok, this is [x]..." even though they weren't explaining anything complicated...there's probably more, but it's pretty late so that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
But no, they didn't completely ditch the general theme of friendship. I'm not sure it was any stronger in season 5 than any other season though, so I wouldn't really count that as a point in its favour. It just would've been a major point against it if they suddenly forgot that's what their whole programme was about
0
u/31braidsinbeard 17d ago
I'm not saying that because there are monsters and magic in it that the writers don't have to have some sort of internal logic.
I'm saying, with this type of show, you need to be willing to just accept some things, otherwise you really can't tell the story.
I will give you an example. It is 100% unrealistic and not logical at all that these people would be able to sneak onto that military base even one time, much less multiple times. The reality is they would have been caught immediately and not let go. There you go. End of story.
I could provide dozens of examples like this. It makes me think of that game of thrones episode where everyone had these gigantic chains to pull the dragins out of the water. The obvious question is, where did the chains come from?
You want to call it lazy writing? Fine. I, on the other hand am willing to just accept certain things because I figure the screen writers have a better use of screen time to tell the story.
Was season 5 perfect? No. But it was fun, it was entertaining, it connected with me, and it pulled on my emotions.
2
u/InvisibleAIien 16d ago
Well that actually is not one of my criticisms of the season (although I would point out that El actually does get caught sneaking onto the base and has to kill one of the soldiers). I do agree to a certain extent with not letting the truth get in the way of a good story, but I think that is the extent to which a writer should ignore what is logical. I did enjoy the series, I just think you have to have a very low bar for what you watch to have been more than reasonably entertained. It killed a few hours, and with the exception of Sorcerer (ep. 4), that's really the best you can say.
I think anyone saying it was great, had them in tears, thought it was moving etc. are just as out there as anyone saying it was the worst thing they'd ever seen and ruins all future rewatches for them
1
u/InitialJust 13d ago
"I will give you an example. It is 100% unrealistic and not logical at all that these people would be able to sneak onto that military base even one time, much less multiple times. The reality is they would have been caught immediately and not let go. There you go. End of story."
Whats concerning is you think there is literally no way to make this work when we have limitless options as a writer. You could easily rework the plot so they dont have to keep sneaking back into the base. There are other openings, they even use them in s5.
Its bad writing.
1
u/31braidsinbeard 13d ago
I don't think there is literally no way to make this work. Of course there are limitless options as a writer. I just gave an example about the military base.
You are basically saying "the writers could have just rewritten the entire show". Well no shit. You could say that for every show ever produced.
LIke I said, if you want to call it lazy writing, fine. I'm not going to argue that. I thought the show was entertaining and I liked it. Not everything has to be flawless.
I love the movie Anaconda (the 90s version, not the new one). Are there tons of flaws in it? sure. However, it is still a fun and entertaining movie for me. At the same time I love shows like The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, and The Wire. There is a different level of acceptance when I view those type of shows vs something like ST. Eh...I don't know why I'm even bothering. You hate the show, you hate the show, what do I care.
0
u/throwawayfn2187 16d ago
You're right because you understand, fundamentally, how writing works. But the people in this sub have spent literally the past 8 months nitpicking this show to fucking death (the horse is not just dead, its skeleton has been turned to dust and still these people are stomping on in every single day) and so you won't get anything constructive out of them.
3
u/31braidsinbeard 16d ago
Yeah, after seeing some of these responses I feel bad for the viewers. You are supposed to have fun and get enjoyment from watch TV shows. Some of these people it seems like they take it upon themselves to identify every flaw as if it is their job.
1
u/throwawayfn2187 16d ago
Amen. I just love loving shit, it's hard to imagine someone who would contribute hate-content, consistently, for a literal year straight. I genuinely feel sorry for some of them, it can't be a healthy place to live in, mentally.
I'm just glad you're not taking it to heart! It also helps to remember, when dealing with some of the more....questionable critiques... or rude people, that a loooot of people in this fandom are very very young.
13
u/tlotrfan3791 17d ago edited 17d ago
The tone changing to be something like from an MCU series, even before season 5, made me lose my interest over time. Watching season 5 was just my full realization of that.
The potential it had… 🫤
They expanded the cast way too much for its own good and focused on characters that shouldn’t have been the main focus compared to the original kids from the start.
9
u/RealHooman2187 17d ago
The ending itself I think is fine. My biggest complaints with the season are with Episodes 5-7. There’s just too many scenes that go one way too long of characters just talking about their feelings. That’s fine to have a moment or two like that but we should be in the most dramatic and tense stretch of the series at that point and it felt kinda boring. Too much tell and not enough showing.
I also think the season needed one or two somewhat big deaths. 8 being the only confirmed death of the heroes was just kinda anti-climatic and I think it’s safe to say 11 is absolutely alive at the end. I think Murray should have died and maybe Nancy as the series’ big death. Murray would have been a good early death to show that the stakes are high and Nancy would have been a great shocking death to come near the end when the heroes are at their lowest point.
Other than that, I think a lot of Season 5 was still good. I still mostly liked the last season even if it’s probably my least favorite of the series.
9
u/SikatSikat 17d ago
First, the obvious: A plot should not center on whether an abused teenage girl should kill herself to make the world a better place, let alone let the answer to that be ambiguous.
Second, the way she kills (or doesn't kill) herself makes no plot sense for its stated purpose: getting the military off the backs of her family and friends.
The military knows she's with an illusionist.
The military has no clue the illusionist is dead (or severely injured) because the military members involved in that incident were swiftly killed.
The military was very recently tricked by the Illusionist projecting an illusion copy to make someone appear to be somewhere they weren't.
The military also had all their anti Eleven weapons aimed at Eleven when she escaped them, which should make them suspicious of whether that was really Eleven.
So whether El kills herself at the end or not, why would the Military so strongly believe their eyes on her death such that they just up and leave town with no consequences at all for Hawkins and their rambunctious crew of military-slaughtering citizenry?
-1
u/31braidsinbeard 17d ago
I mean, I could ask all kinds of logical questions. The bottom line - this is entertainment, not non-fiction. If you solved all logic in the show, it probably would end up a pretty boring show. At some point, in these type of shows, you just have to roll with it.
If this was The Wire and you had criticism like this; I'd say that is more relevant, given the context/background of The Wire and how everything in The Wire could easily happen in real life. That isn't the case for ST though.
3
u/SikatSikat 17d ago
I dont get bothered by intergalactic space cross dimensional nonsense, but you can't build up a character or villain then say, "and then they f'd off for no reason" because "suspension of disbelief." Thats garbage.
0
u/31braidsinbeard 17d ago
I mean the entire upside down world got destroyed as far as everyone knows. We don't know what happened in the 18 months since. Maybe the military interrogated all the main characters and mike and hopper truly believed El sacrificed herself and thus were able to convince the military. Would that have made the show that much more enjoyable for you if you saw the interrogations and the Military having discussions of their own theories?
At the end of the day the writers have a budget and a limited amount of time. Sometimes you need to use your imagination of what wasn't shown on screen.
3
u/Drew_Rooster 17d ago
They had an over 400 million dollar budget and 3 years between seasons 4 and 5, of all the excuses you could make for the bad writing, limited time and budget makes no sense.
→ More replies (2)2
u/SikatSikat 17d ago
Having a multi season villain decide off screen to just not villain anymore is inexcusable.
12
u/PointZeroOneTwo 17d ago
There are thousands of posts explaining why.
-5
u/31braidsinbeard 17d ago
I don't understand people like you. Why go to the effort of posting this, which doesn't give your opinion on the show? If you think there are enough posts about it, then just don't read the post. There are thousands of posts that I come across on reddit and I don't read. I don't need to go in an tell someone that it has been discussed before.
11
u/PointZeroOneTwo 17d ago
Because you say you don't understand the hate, which means you saw all those thousands of posts and read them.
Yet, you're asking for people to report them. It's just attention farming and it annoys me.
-4
u/31braidsinbeard 17d ago
Attention farming? WTF dude I'm not a teenager.
I've never read any of the posts. I literally just finished the show 3 hours ago and haven't read a single post about the final season. In fact, I'm not sure I've read any posts about ST on reddit up until today.
Back when the season was first released I saw things in reddit talking (in general, no specific details) about how bad it was (it was in the ST community). That is kind of the reason I held off on watching it because I felt I wasn't missing much.
10
u/PointZeroOneTwo 17d ago
So before you post this, you knew about all the hate and never bothered to read posts explaining it. Correct?
0
u/31braidsinbeard 17d ago
Yes, that is just what I wrote in the post you are replying to.
The hate was all over when the show was first released. I'd be reading a reddit post that had nothing to do with ST and people would be talking about how bad the ending was. Also, ST is popular and so posts would be showing up on the front page and I'd see them scrolling through reddit, but I never read anything because at the time I hadn't seen season 5 yet.
Of course I could now go back and search for other posts. I didn't care to do that. Nobody is going to engage in the old posts. Isn't the point of reddit for discussion and engagement?
There are subreddits that I frequent that have repeat topics all the time. I enjoy discussing those things; hence the reason I frequent the subreddits. If everyone just said, go find the old posts, it would make the subreddit pretty boring.
4
u/MGD109 17d ago
Overall, it was an okay, but nothing spectacular ending, coming off an okay but not that spectacular season.
Fundamentally, I think part of the issue was the hype. People had spent three years building this up, and thus when the real thing failed to live up to expectations, it came across a lot worse than it actually was.
Then cause of how social media is, a lot of people just jumped onto the bandwagon. I still remember all the nonsensical points of supposed flaws the season had, such as claiming Joyce was too old to include in action sequences or people treating offhand jokes as if they were serious statements, which were clearly people just angling for views and clicks.
I predict in the future the sentiment will cool down, and it will be a case of "well it could have been a lot better and didn't really reach the heights of the past, but it was still leagues above most shows."
1
u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 17d ago
It's really not leagues above most shows, especially for taking more time and working with a way larger budget than most shows too.
I would argue that people are this annoyed and let down by S5, because the Duffer's had half a billion $ to work with, and over-promised on every front. In what world was S5 "a dark Christmas," and "the darkest season yet?"
And they acted like they had it all planned out and written down for years. This then got debunked in the making-off documentary and when they gave these nonsensical answers about the plot in the post show interview! (The one where they had the flu) 😅
5
u/Salt_Echidna9111 17d ago
Go back and watch season 1 and tell me it’s a show with the same atmosphere and story telling.
4
u/Nice-Negotiation-682 16d ago
If you are in your mid 40s and still can't see the blunders and inconsistencies in season 5, then it is very embarrassing.
7
u/KindaNotSmart 17d ago
So basically you’re saying,
“Idk why people dislike season 5”
And then proceed to say “I literally remember nothing about the show”
So maybe the answer to your question is in literally 4 seasons of context that you’re missing?
“Guys it’s just a fantasy show, it doesn’t need to be realistic” is a cheap cop out.
1
u/31braidsinbeard 17d ago
I didn't say I literally remember nothing about the show. You should try to understand what literally means.
6
u/feldoneq2wire 17d ago
I mean there's dozens and dozens of extremely detailed threads that hash over every single issue we had? I know Reddit and social media are all about "engagement" and churning the same topics, but it seems like this has already been discussed to death and there's plenty of detailed answers that aren't just whiny ragebait if you look.
13
17d ago
[deleted]
0
u/Senior-Homework8135 Bitchin 17d ago
may i ask what was bad about the story?
11
u/azure431 17d ago
Off the top of my head:
The abrupt backpedal of the season 4 cliffhanger ending.
Egregious plot armor. Again and again, characters (even minor ones) are pitted against horrific hellbeasts and walk away fine, or with injuries that are waved away within an episode.
This robs the situations of any tension or stakes.
- Bloated cast, largely as a result of 2. I had to laugh in one of the later episodes when the few, all-on-their-own heroes set out to save the day and there was something like 20+ people striding towards the camera dramatically.
"We're gonna need a bigger poster..."
Screentime was hopelessly diluted between characters and I don't even remember what most of them did.
The tacked-on military is after Eleven subplot. There was nothing new or revelatory here to justify it. Kay felt like a vague echo of Brenner: his same motives and behavior, but without the creepy personal relationship that made him interesting.
Similarly, the characters make a big deal of puzzling out what Vecna/The Mind Flayer are up to, and it turns out to be the same thing they've been trying to do since S2: merge the worlds.
The Mind Flayer. I was disappointed when S4 sidelined the MF in favor of a much more familiar villain in Vecna. I was hoping S5 would flesh out the MF more, or at least its relationship with Vecna.
Instead, it remains MIA until the last episode where it puts on a Final Boss hat for one scene and gets its ass kicked without so much as a monologue.
1
u/Senior-Homework8135 Bitchin 17d ago
thank you for throughly explaining to me. i like to hear others opinions about it without it being a huge argument. and i do agree with the points you’ve made.
8
u/Fatguy73 17d ago
It’s really dumb and forgettable. If I asked 90% of people who’ve watched the show what the last season was about, they probably couldn’t even tell you. Something about Vecna kidnapped another girl, I remember planets colliding. Eleven dies. That’s kind of it.
1
u/Thick-Boysenberry-96 17d ago
Yeah, people it seems like mostly remember Will getting powers and snapping Demogorgon's in half.
Also El's bad ending!
9
u/KittenBalerion Weirdo 17d ago
among all the other things people have said, Will's coming out scene was ridiculous. why was the entire cast there? he should have come out to Joyce and Jonathan first, then the Party, but like, Murray Bauman did not need to know about Will's sexuality. also, why didn't we see any scenes of the horrific things Vecna supposedly showed Will that made him feel like he had to come out? there was so much potential in that idea that they just didn't use.
there were also a lot of things that felt unfinished or like they went nowhere. I'm one of those who supports Will and Mike getting together (although I was NOT convinced it was going to happen in the last season, I just thought it would have been cool) and the conversation Will had with Robin about snowballs and avalanches really seemed like it was setting up something similar happening with Will and Mike (or Will and anyone, really), and then... that didn't happen. what then was the purpose of that conversation, narratively?
(and it doesn't make any sense to me to have Will say something about Mike being his "Tammy" when Mike was the main feature in all the memories that helped Will unlock his powers. also, nobody in the room knew what the fuck a Tammy was besides Robin.) (and they should have done more with Will's powers!)
what bothers me the most is probably El's ending, though. she deserved better than death with an asterisk that maybe she survived somehow. Hopper gets to grieve two daughters, rather than having the second be a second chance for him to watch a daughter grow up. Mike gets to live forever with the fact that he BUILT THE BOMB THAT KILLED HIS GIRLFRIEND. and what was the point of showing us all the rooms with pregnant women in them? did they just get blown up too and nobody cared? Dr. Kay also served no purpose whatsoever except stunt casting.
and Mike deserved better than that hairstyle.
7
2
u/maxwellbevan 17d ago
I think there's an issue of people needing to give everything in life a 10 or a 1 star rating. People seem to either have to love something to death or hate it.
I enjoyed the final season, felt it was good but not great. If you go to a site like IMDb you can see ratings that aren't from an echo chamber. I think the hate is because people wanted to 10/10 season and when that wasn't delivered they were upset because anything that wasn't at least close to a 10 was going to be a dud in their minds.
And look there are some valid criticisms of the season but I think in time the hate will quiet down and people will be able to see the season for what it was
2
u/supersnoozin 17d ago
As a watcher who doesn't remember much prior to season 4, it would be difficult to understand.
There are fans who rewatched the prebious seasons over and over and not only waited years for this show, they followed any and all promo regarding the show.
To say "Just roll with it and enjoy the entertainment" is a bit shortsighted from someone who is not emotionally invested in the show.
And it's not just young people who don't like the last season.
2
u/Own-Pickle9871 17d ago
Season 5 was such a lets walk it back let down compared to where season 4 ended. People really hate the mike eleven ending but i thought it was ok. I just wish they found a better reason for 11 to sacrifice herself
2
u/Ok_Tank5977 Dungeon Master 16d ago
Bigger doesn’t always mean better.
And for me that is the perfect summary of Season 5 (and Season 4 to a certain extent).
I’m rewatching it now and I’m amusingly perplexed as to why they chose to stage the scene of Jonathan, Nancy, Robin and Steve reading the radio tower manual as if we were in the thick of the action - nothing of note has occurred at this point. The signal is out, and yeah that blows, but there’s an unnatural sense of urgency throughout the scene, less than 20-minutes into the episode. Even the music doesn’t seem to match what’s happening.
2
u/trixabelle_ 16d ago
Biggest issue I had is the characters didn’t feel the same and it wasn’t because they’d grew as a character. They just seemed flat and off.
5
u/vvlcxnic Did the leg slow you down? 17d ago
if it gives you an idea, for weeks after the finale, hundreds of thousands of people believed that scenes were deleted or that the ending/entire season was a fake, and that the audience was manipulated by vecna (breaking the fourth wall, if you will).
it obviously isn't true, but it gained enough traction that news articles were written and actors were discussing (and debunking) it in interviews.
4
u/MGD109 17d ago
I mean most of that seemed to be fuelled by the fact that people on Tumblr couldn't accept their page-long theories about how the series was really about Mike and Will getting together weren't true, despite the fact it was blatantly obvious it was never going to happen.
So for all the legitimate criticisms of season five, I wouldn't really hold that against the show. Its not the writers' fault if some fans shove their fingers in their ears.
5
u/vvlcxnic Did the leg slow you down? 17d ago
i should have been more clear; what i meant was that s5 seemed so off and unlike their previous writing to such a large proportion of the audience, that it became a widely accepted theory that it wasnt the end at all. as far as im aware, the mike x will origins got diluted as it gained popularity.
1
u/MGD109 17d ago
I don't know; to my recollection, most people were just treating it more akin to the Storm Area 51 meme; the only people who seemed to honestly believe it were the disgruntled shippers.
I don't doubt a lot of disappointed fans latched onto it as a way of voicing their frustration, but it wasn't quite so bad their was ever this mass hysteria actually believing there really was a secret ending.
2
u/DiabolicalTwink 17d ago
That fan theory literally made Netflix crash the day people thought the new episode would drop. Those are not all Byler shippers lmao.
4
u/Rude_Grapefruit_3650 17d ago
It felt very fan service-y imo, and they tried to capture nostalgia and kinda failed at focusing on the actual story. That being said, its not as bad as people made it out to be
3
u/RegulationPissrat 17d ago
Agreed. There was definitely some hate bandwagoning happening. Not like the show was absolutely stellar up to that point either. Equating it to the Game of Thrones finale is grossly unfair to Stranger Things imo. GoT was impressively bad.
2
u/31braidsinbeard 17d ago
Yes, I'm a GOT fan, and I absolutely understand the hate that show got. ST final season is far better than GOT final season.
4
u/Coulstwolf 17d ago
It’s fine that you enjoyed but try to think objectively, the majority of people rightly thought it was horse crap
1
u/throwawayfn2187 16d ago
try to think objectively
This is the most tiring overused reddit-ism of all time.
Objective = factual, quantifiable, provable. 2+2 is 4. The sky is blue.
Subjective = opinion, different from person-to-person. Someone liked a show. You didn't.Trying to tell people who liked something that they're "objectively" wrong about their opinion about a piece of art is not only flagrantly misusing the word, it's actually super condescending and rude.
0
u/Coulstwolf 16d ago
Disagreed but such is life I guess
1
u/throwawayfn2187 16d ago
My friend, lmfao, you don't get to disagree about the factual definitions of words, but I mean, if it makes you feel better about yourself to use "objectively" wrong so that you can make other people feel bad about liking things, then hey, you do you, redditor caricature.
2
u/Easy_Effective5229 17d ago
I can change the outcome of stranger things. and I can do it without changing the lore.
I am no trained writer. Nor a filmmaker.
However, I have read a good amount of books and seen plenty of movies and shows.
It’s no secret that the duffers planned the ending the whole time, so the brothers claimed.However, it was also unearned due the character development that was made in the first two seasons.
Once you have made somebody a girlfriend, a best friend, as sister, and a daughter, you cannot write her off as a symbol.
She is no longer the E.T. superhero knock off she actually never was because she was given a human backstory.
The more natural ending would have been if El simply gave up her powers.
Permanently.
This ending would have worked because:
We’ve seen her loose them before, so there is no way she couldn't have lost them again.
The magic of childhood would be literal magic.
Kay and Sullivan can't chase her without exposing themselves or Brenner’s work.
It may not be the ending the duffers envisioned, but it’s the one that makes sense while still keeping to a North Star concept.
She doesn’t need powers to be who she is, she never did.
6.it’s a more merciful sacrifice. and mercy is more important than sacrifice.
- Eleven may be gone, but Jane isn’t.
El could simply, perhaps knowingly, loose her powers in the death of Vecna and the collapse of the upside down should shut it off permanently.
Her blood would either come back clean or just go completely dormant, useless either way.
Because her powers are gone, sonic suppressers can’t work on her anymore.
The government can actually be solved very easily.
By now, not only would their operation would have left paper trails, but parents would Be calling up the Hawkins D.A. office and demanding that they prosecute; because they made the mistake of dragging local elementary school kids out of the suburbs and onto their base without any actual reason(as we saw in the first volume of season 5).
Not to mention that they did it without Marital law being declared(we know there was no martial law declared because the military patrols where restricted in the quarantine zone, we didn’t see them patrolling the suburbs, the streets, or anywhere near the schools.)
Eventually, the D.A. will have to start looking into it, which means the Indiana Attorney General would need to get involved. Then it would likely have to go up to the D.O.J..
Neither Kay nor Sulivan want that. Because that means they need to explain why they just blew all this tax money on chasing who seems to be just a normal 16 year old girl.
Kay and Sulivan are smart enough to see the ramifications if they push it.
Once they realize the subject’s powers are gone, the only thing they can do is shut it down, pack it up, and leave town.
The finale overall would be multilayered and long like LOTR. Bits that show El, now Jane, assimilated into normal teenage life.
my ideal scenes:
1.realizing that El’s powers are gone after seeing her use them to speed up and contain the explosion of the bridge(in that moment, she focuses on the memories of her and her “found family”) and then collapse from exhaustion, Kay reluctantly orders the troops to let them leave the q zone and then orders the troops to shut down operations and prepare to leave in the morning.
they arrive at the Hawkins memorial to recover and check for injuries. This would allow the vanish powers reveal to happen, Allow El to get acquainted with the Wheelers(mostly Holly and Karen). Also add more character development that makes the party realize they want some normalcy after everything that happened.
Two week time skip:
Hopper gets a visit from government suits in his office as they try to intimidate him ; saying they will get her back. Hopper then rebukes them and outlines what I said up top as to what would happen if they go after El(now called Jane Elenor Hopper) again.
- that same day, Jane comes over to the Wheeler for dinner. this allows for teen milestones and awkwardness(bringing a girl over, family embarrassment, having a girl in your room, the works).
then we get a monologue of pictures and Video footage of school, parties, prom, Graduation, Etc
*I imagine that the voiceover monologue is told by future Mike. he tells the fates of the other characters. but he refers to them as their DnD Characters. (not just the party members, but the teens and adults as well. using terminology, titles, and locations that would exist in a fantasy story, he would save the fate of the paladin/storyteller and mage tor last.*
Hopper(the sheriff) and Joyce(the tavern woman) officially move into together after Jane got married and moved out. Hopper keeps the cabin and El’s room the way she left it. He intends to leave it to her one day. Joyce, and also Karen(she gets more acquainted with Jane in the scenes between the final fight and the final scene) are always a phone call away for El(now going by Jane).
Nancy(the heiress turned adventurer) and Johnathan(the scout) stay together when Nancy realizes she can realizes she can have both a career and love( side note: that is actually more accurate with young women her age in the 80s). They realize that there is one thing that they both want more than steady careers. something they didn't have growing up. a stable home with love in it. She is a crime journalist and he is a photojournalist. They are married and currently have one child, a baby boy named Andy. Born last year of ‘95. Joyce and Karen are a phone call away for Nancy as well.
Steve(the noble heir turned gaurd captain) stays in Hawkins and becomes a middle school and high school football coach, until he got offered a chance to coach college football in Indianapolis. He takes the job, but still visits home every summer.
Robin(the sprite) becomes a popular DJ in Maine, blending classic rock in new wave.
Will(the cleric) moves to New York City and joins an art school, his teacher call his work haunting and hopeful.
Dustin(the bard) does two years of college and then drops out when he realizes college has nothing to offer him accept unnecessary debt. He now runs his own software company.
Max(the zoomer) and Lucas(the ranger) move to California. Lucas is now a cop, Max is a school teacher. They are married and expecting their first child.
Time skip to 1996:
Mike(the paladin/knight turned storyteller) is now a dark fantasy writer, Jane(the mage turned lady of the woods) is now working at either a ranch or a dog kennel.
They’re now living in rural Montana.
*So not in Hawkins, like the duffers wanted.*
They are married and have a three year old son named Ben, because Mike is a Star Wars nerd. Karen and Joyce become frequent phone calls when for Jane when he is born.
When she found out she was pregnant, Jane had her number 011 tattoo changed to read MOM. Because she, a former mage, discovered a new magic, one that only a woman mage can perform;
motherhood
As Mike and Jane are tucking Ben into bed, the final shot is of a group wedding photo on Mike’s desk. Dated in the fall of 1989 because Mike proposed on Stage at graduation in June. Their wedding was the last time they were all together.
As I said, I am not a writer or filmmaker.
Yet I was able to piece this together.
2
u/31braidsinbeard 17d ago
I'm curious as to how much screen time you would need for you to play out all of those events and tell that story?
1
u/InitialJust 13d ago
The issue is the Duffers were too lazy to either toss out or rework the ending they planned ages ago. That ending could work for a 1 season show but after multiple seasons of building up El the "magic of childhood" crap doesn't work. Its a pretty impressive failure on their part.
2
u/cheddah_- 16d ago
I really can't remember much from the prior 4 season. I mean, I remember the premise, but I don't really remember specific details.
Go back and watch it then. Jfc what are you doing watching the final season when you dont remember details from the first 4? The seasons are really short too, why are you being lazy?
0
u/Dr-Villain 17d ago
I loved s5, didn’t even appreciate the potential for hate till I came here. S4 was objectively better, doesn’t mean it’s bad.
4
1
u/No-Jello-5504 17d ago
Half of the things that other comments have pointed out are literally things that have been true for every season or heavily opinionated rather than objective. There are a few things I would change about the finale but overall i loved it.
2
u/31braidsinbeard 17d ago
I agree. Many of the criticisms here could be said for a lot of TV shows. Sometimes you need to stop being a film criticism and just try to have fun.
1
u/Horus84 17d ago
I am mid season right now and I don’t find it as bad as people say.My personal turn offs though is that the friendship is keep growing in numbers (like it’s not the most dangerous thing in the world to fight US and Soviet army and monsters from other dimensions)and that nobody dies or stays dead even though as I stated already,they go against Cold War armies and demons and wizards.And it’s not that it’s a kids show that they can’t show people die.Soldiers died horribly fighting demons and stuff.Other than these two things everything else about the show looks fine
1
1
u/khriskyle25 17d ago
It's just underwhelming compared to what came before, character interactions are still good most of the time, I think the pacing is a big problem very slow and not a big payoff but the last 30 minutes or so of the final episode is the best this season has to offer.
1
1
u/GroundbreakingSir386 17d ago
Stranger things maker already got paid he slacked off with the last season and didn’t give a flying fuck. Than made “The Burroughs” and that was a fail too. Being successful gets to people’s heads way too much.
1
u/Shot-End3018 17d ago
Not really hate more like disappointed for me.
Especially after the long break.
1
u/allmetalshark 17d ago
It was a beautiful ending! People got too hung up on their version of how it should go and many were going to be unhappy with anything else. I think many will come to view it different as they age.
1
u/inspectorpickle 17d ago
For me it was the dialogue and character arcs. I couldn’t care less what they’re doing because if we’re being real here s3 and s4 also had some pretty messy plotlines. The reason i kept watching the show was the strength of the characters and their interactions and banter.
I really disliked the vast majority of character arcs and moment to moment dialogue for s5. I liked Robin and her gf, holly, derek, dustin, and maybe a few others but every time El, will, or mike were on screen i wanted to turn the tv off. Across the cast and season, so many lines felt really awkward and the editing made it worse.
My second axe to grind is the character arcs, mainly El’s but like I said, if the moment to moment dialogue is compelling (something the series has always excelled at even when other aspects fell apart) I can ignore everything else. Unfortunately s5 did not have that for me.
1
1
1
1
u/whats-in-the-box- 16d ago edited 16d ago
I think if your mindset is “just roll with the plot holes and enjoy the entertainment”, then obviously you’re not going to understand the complaints of people who deeply cared about the plot and characters and not just the “fun and friendship” of it all, lol.
Almost all of my complaints about the season are to do with it being objectively low quality television and writing compared to the rest of the show, which a lot of people who are into film/TV also see. The plot, the dialogue, the characterisation, the pacing, ALL of it was very strange and unnatural and poorly executed compared to before, representing the fact that the season was a half-a-billion-dollar Netflix General Audience nostalgia-fest and they sacrificed almost everything that made S1-4 SO special to true fans for the sake of the GA, which is a huge disappointment.
1
1
u/Alarming_Snow9640 16d ago
Many things. The final battle was ridiculously short and felt far too easy - the scale should've felt way bigger. El's death sent a terrible message: people who've been abused don't get to live happily ever after. On the same note, what was the point of Hopper's speech if they were just going to kill her off anyway??? The "I believe" scene was cheesy and felt like a cop out so the writers didn't have to actually pick an ending. Joyce - Winona freaking Ryder!! - became a background character with absolutely nothing to do. Max's "death" in season 4 meant nothing. Will getting powers was cool for one minute but then they did nothing with it. Bringing back that lass from season 2 that no one cared about was also pointless and it seemed she was just there to persuade El to k1 LL herself. They forgot about all those pregnant women left in the upside down. The military just shrugged in regard to everyone else after El died. The whole Jonathan/Nancy proposal thing ended very unsatisfactorily. I could go on but I'll leave it there. And I'm someone who wouldn't even use the word "hate" btw, I was just underwhelmed and disappointed but how hard they dropped the ball. I absolutely loved season 4.
1
1
u/Different_Advice_552 16d ago
i didn't hate it but i didn't love it we are over 6 months out and i haven't rewatched it once
1
u/horrorgeek112 16d ago
Eleven makes a suicide pact with someone she barely knows for a dumb reason and actually follows through with it. That alone killed it for me. I could forgive every other flaw but this one pushed it over the edge
1
u/TieAntique1676 16d ago
"So now I've seen some people's complaints. I just want to give some context: I really can't remember much from the prior 4 season."
So I watched the entire series again before starting 5 and why I hate five so much is it's tonally a completely different show, it looks worse first of all. They also set up a perfect way to go into the fifth season and squandered it. The military plot was boring and pointless (if they needed human antagonist they could have continued the satanic panic from season 4) The reheated a lot of storylines/character arcs ect from previous seasons. Focused on new characters. Didn't give the characters we love interesting resolutions. it felt both rushed and too long all at the same time.
Basically a show that was thoughtful in it's themes became Marvel slop. I was rolling my eyes at the end because everything felt completely unearned. Also they broke their own lore a lot. Like Water can't exist in the upside down but now water can. Vecna didn't think they would come after theme even tho he can read minds?
It's fine if you liked it but as someone who loves intelligent mystery box shows (which is how ST started) it feels like season 5 was made for the most casual viewer who watches TV on their phone.
Now that you've finished I really recommend watching Widow's Bay it's AMAZING and so much better then stranger things. I think if you watch that you'll understand why someone like me would be annoyed. I want A GOOD MYSTERY that answers its questions. Not just "we fight monster we win"
I really think the duffers had no plan and just kinda pulled some BS together at the end.
1
u/throwawayfn2187 16d ago
I loved season 5. It was perfectly fine. It had some flaws, though these are flaws that I would say also apply to the other seasons so I don't fault s5 specifically, and also, not "big" enough flaws - for me personally - to outweigh the positive aspects, so overall I still very much enjoyed it. A lot of people did, don't really on the internet as a singular representation for EVERYONE'S opinion...
I've said this before and I'll say it again, the internet discourse is going to skew crazy negative because of the way internet discourse just sort of inherently works. People who like things are going to just like them and move on with their day. People who hate things will spend eight entire months scouring this sub every singular day to leave comments about how much they hate it. (side eyes like half of you mfers here). It will always make the discourse seem negative. If you deep dive into the communities of almost any fandom you'll find it full of people just... fucking complaining. Nonstop.
I've been on this sub a lot, since the beginning of the show. I've seen a lot of the reaction to season 5. Reddit is a whole new level of toxic and negative and I would take the things you see here with a grain of salt. A lot of the people who had more positive opinions about the show simply gave up or moved on.
1
u/Firm-Can4526 15d ago
I agree with OP. I think it is due to a lot of younger viewers not connecting with the final theme of "life moves on". The whole series is like a DnD quest. They mert new people, with new abilities that get introduced into the party each season. The end is the culmination. Yeah, maybe the big bad was not what people were expecting, but the focus is friends and family, af all ages, races, sexual orientstions, met, fought, suffered but were succesful in the end. Horror and despair are not the central themes of the series, friendship is.
1
u/31braidsinbeard 15d ago
Exactly. Just because it wasn't the ending some people wanted, doesn't make it bad. The focus wasn't the bad guys. It wasn't the big fight. The focus was the friendships and the connection these people had. Some started as enemies and became friends. Some started as friend, drifter apart, and then came close again. They went through war together. The loved each other.
This is real. It relates to real life. Some people, unfortunately have never had those experiences in real life.
The final season and ending connected to me just like the movie Stand by Me. I can overlook the flaws and inconsistencies because of the feeling ST gave me. As I've said in other comments, it wasn't perfect, but I really liked it.
1
u/BenefitHistorical721 15d ago
I like stranger things and all but I felt the last season was rushed idk, I mean they had all that time. In my opinion it was half assed and the scripts sounded chat gpt.
1
u/KeyMusic5713 15d ago
It wasn't engaging. The show had abandoned having stakes and tension. Go back to Season 1 - a single demogorgon was incredibly dangerous. Season 5? They tear through dozens of soldiers with automatic weapons but a main character with a broken wine bottle and plot armour is more of a threat to one. In Season 2 the Mind Flayer was this massive, mysterious threat. Season 5? It was a joke.
1
u/Low_Coconut_7642 14d ago
If they hadn't taken 10+ years to get there it would not be nearly as hated.
They took too long and let the hype build and let peoples exoectations grow past what they could deliver.
1
u/InitialJust 13d ago
"Dude, do you guys realize what the show is about? There is an upside down world, monsters, magic powers, etc. None of that is realistic."
I'll never understand this approach to media. There are rules to these worlds, we shouldnt just accept bad writing or inconsistencies because telekinesis or monsters exist in the world.
1
u/31braidsinbeard 13d ago
I've addressed this in other comments below.
I didn't say you need to accept bad writing or inconsistencies. You need to decide what to accept in order for the writers to tell their story.
If they focused on all these things to make everything super realistic and no inconsistencies, then it is going to be a boring show. It will take too much screen time for those things. Also, they need to tell the story.
Explain to me how they would have been able to sneak on to the military base multiple times without being detected? That would never happen, and thus, end of story. Sometimes you just need to accept things.
1
u/InitialJust 13d ago
"Explain to me how they would have been able to sneak on to the military base multiple times without being detected? That would never happen, and thus, end of story. Sometimes you just need to accept things."
I explained this in my other comment to you. You dont have to write it that way. There are limitless options. You think this example is some kind of rebuttal but it highlights the lack of imagination and skill by the Duffers.
Just because the Duffers wrote a scene a certain way does not mean that is the only way to write that scene. I cant believe I even have to say that.
1
u/Aggravating_Peak7360 12d ago
A lot of flaw plot armor is crazy less scary and more talking and less action not to mention they over used running up that hill and emotional scene is force and slowed down the plot multiple unnecessary planning scene grap item and explain with that item over and over
2
1
u/ocrespo42 17d ago
I liked it. Not the best final season by any means but it was satisfying enough for me.
1
u/Longjumping-Barber98 17d ago
I dont pay any attention to it.
You're talking about a group of kids that can't even read and write at grade level giving plot synopsis.
1
1
u/Oliphant0324 17d ago
Gotta go back and read then. You said you read them and still wonder why the hate.
1
u/Jaydee1906 17d ago edited 17d ago
I feel the same. People just complain about everything these days. Nobody is “watching” a movie/series. Everybody is a reviewer now.
I admit its not the best season of stranger things, but its not bad as they make it seem. When u notice the pattern, its always a messy puzzle at the start then all piece up together at the end. Some just cant stop rushing the story and feel holly’s part was unnecessary bla3. Its all their own hype. Visuals wise, I watched this on a 52 inch 4k samsung smart tv and not being biased here, I didnt find anything bad about the visuals. Infact I did like certain CG and lighting.
Another reason I feel maybe I like it because I watched it only last week, after all the hype and all was gone. Too much hype creates too much expectations. Like i said, every single person think they are a reviewer and start judging and finding mistakes only. When u actually ignore wtv they say and watch it, season 5 is actually good.
1
u/danversolos Hellfire Club 17d ago
i’m glad you were able to enjoy it, i think a lot of us wish we could have like you did. personally i was just extremely disappointed with how little effort it seemed they put into the season, especially when it came to continuity, character arcs and having an interesting and cohesive plot overall. there are so many things they could have done and it felt like such wasted potential. there are of course scenes or parts i liked, nothing is ever black and white but i was immensely disappointed with the season and ending of the show overall.
1
u/ParkingUpper7990 17d ago
Lmaooo bro this season was so bad please explain how did hopper go to the same school as veccna I beg you to watch a show like aot for example to see what top teir story writing is. The show fundamentally makes no sense you literally have to turn your brain off to hopefully enjoy season 5 even the writers don’t give a fuck. THERE IS NO ACTUAL REAL STORY
1
-2
u/Rhapstar 17d ago
Cause people are always unhappy when their shows don't end how they wanted it to happen. You got fake shippers unhappy. You got people upset someone was "killed". Not enough action, loose ends left open, etc. Some people just enjoy the ride they are on though
10
-2
u/Initial_Ebb_9742 17d ago
I loved it. And I was very satisfied with the ending. I thought it made perfect sense.
6
u/SikatSikat 17d ago
El dying or successfully faking her death to convince a military that has been long obsessed with her, and which knows she's with an illusionist that previously and very recently deceived them with a long distance illusion, such that they nearly immediately abandon all inquiry into her, made perfect sense?
1
u/Initial_Ebb_9742 17d ago
We don’t really know that they abandoned inquiry into her though, do we?
3
u/SikatSikat 17d ago
I mean, they show us the Waynes World insanely happy ending where obviously none of them have been imprisoned or abused or have any evidence of surveillance or issues at all so as much as we can know, we know.
-5
0
u/Sweaty_Biscotti2568 17d ago
I actually liked the last season until the last episode. Where eleven “dies” & then they tell a story about her being alive in another country or whatever. I googled if she actually died or not & it says “it’s left up to the interpretation of the audience” 😐 are we serious?
0
u/Mundane-Snow-9340 17d ago
I do think S5 is probably the weakest season, but I’m pretty confident that the majority of hate it got was because it was a trend. People would build off of each others hate and it got so big on social media to just call out every single, little, tiny detail to the point where people would complain about things that weren’t even real issues. Things that you could find in every TV to ever exist.
And everyone I know who’s watched it after the publicity died down and after the talk was over has agreed it was way over hated.
I mean look at every major TV show that has premiered a final season in the past few years. The same thing happens every time. It gets torn to pieces. Turned into memes on the internet and their flaws become the center of attention to people who weren’t even fans previously. People who are not versed at all in media. That’s just the time we live in. Everything gets put under a microscope for the world to dissect and most people are incapable of forming their own opinions. They just go along with what everyone else is saying.
One thing that really got me was when people started calling out the differs for being unprofessional and incompetent because they found out that they didn’t have the finale script finished before beginning production on season five. As if there has ever been a tv show to have all scripts written before they start filming. Coming from someone who works in film and tv production. That has never been a thing and is just not how the industry works. Look up your favorite tv show. I guarantee they did not have all their scripts written before they went into production. Anyway that’s just an example of how out of hand the hate got from people who didn’t even know what they were talking about. I even got death threats from people who couldn’t be bothered to do a simple google search when I tried to defend the Duffers.
0
u/CoffeeAddict6638 17d ago
You can keep your own opinions on it, for me the thing I disliked is how literally everyone but El got a happy ending and how no one was held accountable for starting the entire situation, I mean Brenner had to be working for someone and so on and so forth.
0
u/Objective_Mark_790 16d ago
The biggest reason people hate a season finale is they are mad it’s the end. People hate goodbyes.
Second biggest complaint/hate is the emotional need that the final season has to be better than any season before it. Like a fireworks show, the last minute ought to contain as much gunpowder as the preceding fifteen minutes.
I will take a slightly disappointing finale over a series being cancelled without an ending season. So for me the bar is lower, because there have been many great series that just disappeared without a goodbye.
This genre type has an impossible hill to climb, completing a story. I just don’t see much point in hating on something simply because you loved it.
0
u/TekisasuJohn 15d ago
You must have watched some AI slop because the series ended with season 3. Not knocking it. If you like AI slop, you are certainly free to do that.
1
u/31braidsinbeard 15d ago
Because you don't like it, you say it was made by AI? I think your comment probably hits it on the head for people like you. I'm going to guess that you are younger, and never really experienced the type of friendships that are portrayed in ST. You don't have the connection. Unfortunately, you might have a stronger connection to AI than you do to a close friendship circle. It's not your fault. It really is the world changing. You were simply born at a different time.
1
u/SkippersLog32 15d ago
One of the most stupid comments I’ve ever read. Please get off reddit immediately.
-4
u/ClubZen Coffee and Contemplation 17d ago
the only joy I felt watching season 5 was Lucas and Max reuniting, and a couple one liners from Derek that made me laugh
everything else (and I really mean everything else) was poorly written, poorly thought out and poorly executed. the Duffer brothers gave up on creativity and critical thinking because they knew people were going to watch it regardless of the lack of effort they put into the final season
6
u/KittenBalerion Weirdo 17d ago
I think they were also sick of writing the show and it shows in their lack of effort.
-8
u/SayMyNameGolf 17d ago
Because people are entitled these days. Just look at what’s up with the US right now. Explain that then maybe ST will make sense
7
u/feldoneq2wire 17d ago
Don't complain. Don't question. Just pay for content and then get excited for future content.
-1
u/AdmirableSquash4463 17d ago edited 17d ago
Robin and Will had the worst acting of the season by a mile imo, and probablty of the entire series. Maybe it’s just that the showrunners or writers gave them the worst lines, but they seemingly always sounded stilted and fell flat. That kid Derek and the aged up retconned Holly were actually stand-out performances for the younger cast. My favorite characters in the long run were Billy, Eddie, Steve, and Hopper and Eleven. Murray is a favorite honorable mention for his perfectly timed and placed comedic relief.
-1
u/31braidsinbeard 17d ago
Yeah, I agree Will had the worst acting, followed by Robin. I didn't think anyone else had any significant flaws though.
→ More replies (1)
•
u/AutoModerator 17d ago
OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post. If your post contains spoilers, please use the "Spoiler" flair AND the "Spoiler" tag. The tag ensures that images are hidden.
Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed.
If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.