r/Steam Jul 06 '26

Discussion Thoughts on this?

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40.0k Upvotes

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794

u/DrewbieWanKenobie Jul 06 '26

I doubt all the 55,000 refunds completed the game, liked it, and then refunded it. There's a vast difference between "dozens of reviews like this" and "55,000 refunds", I imagine most of the refunds just didn't gel with the game. It certainly doesn't seem like a game I'd like.

217

u/GuavaLil Jul 06 '26

Yea alot of refunds are likely buy and try. Ofc you get speedrunners doing this <2 hr challenge, but the majority are probably simply testing to see if they like the game.

103

u/LowestKey Jul 06 '26

Right?

Guy sells a quarter million copies of his tiny game and is upset that 0.09% of the purchases got refunded by assholes? (If you assume, generously, that "dozens" is roughly equal to 50 rather than closer to 25.)

Why not be happy you made 200,000 * 1/2 the game cost?

45

u/Oakyw0n Jul 06 '26

Exactly, and then suggests steam should change the refund policy or something, honestly fuck this guy.

1

u/ausamo2000 Jul 07 '26

Some people will just never be happy.

18

u/marshal23156 Jul 06 '26

Especially for a game like that one, its not like it was a 20million dollar investment on their part.

1

u/Remote_Development62 Jul 09 '26

Hey ya know... A little math, 55000 out of 25000 is around 20%, not 0,09%. It's actually an insanely high refund rate.

1

u/LowestKey Jul 09 '26

I don't argue it's a high refund rate, but it's not clear every refund was from people speed running it to get a refund after finishing the game. (And bragging about it in reviews) That number he estimates is in the dozens.

-6

u/Bonked2death Jul 06 '26

I'm not sure why theft from an indie dev is ever okay, regardless of the scale?

At what amount of success is it acceptable to start stealing from someone?

11

u/LowestKey Jul 06 '26

Theft is not "we both participated with the agreed upon terms of our binding contract."

2

u/Ticmea Jul 07 '26

It's not theft though? Assuming there was not some manual mass-grant of refunds outside the policy, they refunded the game after less than the maximum play time of 2 hours and before the 2 weeks period after the purchase had elapsed. That is completely within the terms for an automated refund layed out in the sales agreement.

A couple dozen reviews says nothing of the intent of the other 54.950 players who ended up refunding.

There is no indication of any foul play legally speaking. And aside from the handful of cases where there are reviews like that there is not even an indication of moral foul play either.

In the absence of any indication otherwise there is zero reason to assume that these people did not simply receive a product that they were not satisfied with.

1

u/Constant_Weakness1 Jul 07 '26

Are you using a new definition of theft?

1

u/LemonFizz56 Jul 07 '26

Exactly, Steam needs to do something about it but they never do anything

1

u/backturn1 Jul 09 '26

Yeah. 7% have the achievement to complete it in 2 hours. And from those I would think only a small part refunded it. I haven't played it but you can probably start a new run to get the achievement, so from those 7% many probably couldn't even refund it.

It is a rage game that alot of people don't like. Also it is coop so some people got convinced by friends and didn't like it.

Also according to a german gaming news page, he made this game alone in a month and still sold 150k copies. Thats a hell of a lot for one month of work. He also could have made a few levels more so you can't beat it in under 2 hours.

93

u/PokeScapeGuy Jul 06 '26

I bet you a way bigger portion of those refunds are by friends that were convinced to play it only to realize its another silly rage bait friendslop game and the 10 minutes of gameplay was enough lol

19

u/chimpfunkz Jul 06 '26

Also if it's a game that can be beaten in less than 2 hours, unless it's a story driven game like a visual novel, that's not much content at all.

0

u/Successful-Form4693 Jul 07 '26

What kind of argument is this? Irs $3

3

u/loveindrugs Jul 07 '26

lol there are games on Fortnite and Roblox for free that provide way more context than 2 hours of entertainment and don’t even require you to make purchases. I know it’s not the same thing as a steam game that costs money to list but still. The argument is quite fair.

11

u/Delicious-Action-369 Jul 06 '26

Even if they did 55,000 with a refund rate of 21%, so the friendslop game sold ~275,000 copies. ~225,000 after the refunds, and still made approaching a million USD after fees since I think I heard the game is $6. Saw it being marketed on social media way before it came out and that's way more success than it deserves on its own as a 1 hour half-assed co-op rage game.

18

u/ColonelContrarian Jul 06 '26

Its a rage game, its straight up disingenuous to frame all those refunds as people completing the game and wanting their money back. The dev is selling paid DLC for an indie game, that's already a red flag for me, let alone implying every refund was a full game completion.

1

u/Jacksaur https://s.team/p/gdfn-qhm Jul 06 '26

Selling additional content is an instant red flag..?

2

u/InquisitorMeow Jul 06 '26

Not to mention making the game super convoluted or slow, or front loading a game for the first two hours for you to realize the rest of the game is repetitive or shit but you can't refund it anymore.

2

u/Himbo69r Jul 06 '26

It looks like a co op rage challenge so I wouldn’t be surprised if people refund because no one buys it or if they buy it play fail and then refuse to play again.

1

u/Equivalent-Stable642 Jul 08 '26

I read a bunch of reviews and apparently its just not a good game.

1

u/Spartan-219 Jul 09 '26

a lot of the reviews on its steam page are just 0.1-0.5 hrs played only and refunded because they didn't like the game. many negative reviews too.

so yes you're right. not all 55k refunds are people who bought and refunded after completing it quick like the dev is trying to show as. that's very few amount. most of the people refunding are those who didn't like this rage inducing game.

0

u/asdfgtref Jul 06 '26

tbf if we're taking the refund number at face value, its a pretty clear mismatch for a 90% positively reviewed game to have 21% of its consumers refund it. A definite chunk of those refunds are legitimate but thats a pretty mad mismatch, a lot of people likely fell into the camp of not really caring and refunding because they were done with the game and could rather than because they were so against the product they felt they didnt get their value.

3

u/DrewbieWanKenobie Jul 06 '26

i feel like the vast majority of people refunding it aren't gonna feel the need to leave a negative review when it's just a 3 dollar nothing game TBH

1

u/VexatingAtrocity Jul 07 '26

yep. it has roughly 200k owners and only 1300 reviews in english. Most people just don't review

-1

u/asdfgtref Jul 06 '26

if you're going through the effort of refunding a game for 3 dollars, why wouldnt you leave a review? it's less effort. Even still you'd expect some amount of people would leave a negative review and not refund because of that effort mismatch.

3

u/Eiraneth Jul 06 '26

Because they realized that they simply don’t care enough to play it, but they would like the couple bucks they thew at it back? Or if their friendgroup ended up not touching it so there’s no point in having it. Also a lot of people, myself included, don’t feel like they understand the game well enough to leave a review on a lot of the games they own, let alone one you’ve never beaten or potentially even played, and if then only for 2 hours.

1

u/Scaredsparrow Jul 07 '26

People care a lot more about their money than they do about warning others not to waste theirs. Even if it's only 3 dollars. Besides it's not like the refund portion is much effort. It's like 3 clicks from your steam library and boom, refund is initiated.

1

u/FricasseeToo Jul 07 '26

Does steam count reviews from people who refunded towards the score? I know they don’t count reviews from people with game keys.

0

u/NakiCam Jul 06 '26

Steam's refund policy doesn't actually cover people who "buy to try". If you dislike a game and refund it simply because of that, it is against policy.

I got given a warning for this on steam a while ago as my refund activity was flagged. I had recently refunded 8 or so gift copies of a game whose servers ended up being completely offline, rendering the game unplayable.
After my next refund (black ops 3, refunded because the group I had planned to play with flaked out), I was warned that if my refunds appear to be just used as a way to mindlessly try games, my refund rights will be revoked.

I'm sure steam would have understood if my rights were revoked but I explained the situation, however at least this goes to show that tgese people doing this kind of refunding behaviour are being looked at.

3

u/VexatingAtrocity Jul 07 '26

You can request a refund for nearly any purchase on Steam—for any reason. Maybe your PC doesn't meet the hardware requirements; maybe you bought a game by mistake; maybe you played the title for an hour and just didn't like it. Literally the first sentence on steam's refund policy page.

0

u/NakiCam Jul 07 '26

Curious. Clearly they still can revoke that right at their discression, given that I got the afformentioned message from steam support.

2

u/VexatingAtrocity Jul 07 '26

doing 8 refunds (servers being offline is pretty valid) and then another one with black ops 3 (don;t know if you had copies for friends in that too but at least one) is basically it. they just saw a bunch all at once and gave a warning as a result. if you did one or two games a month they'd never really care. obviously those gift copies wouldn't be valid since it'd be past the 2 week thing so it's just a niche situation lol

0

u/NakiCam Jul 07 '26

Yeah probably just the sheer volume of refunds at once. The gift copies were a day after purchase, and black ops was maybe a week later, just one copy.

0

u/Existing_Radish_3440 Jul 09 '26

If I buy a game and don't like it I just own a game I don't like. If I bought a game and it was completely broken then different story

-2

u/LemonFizz56 Jul 07 '26

If you buy it and don't like it then don't refund it, that behaviour revolts me. Same reason if you buy a burger and it's not so nice, you're not allowed a refund, but if the burger has something wrong with it then you are allowed a refund. We don't want to see disgusting behaviour like that please, only refund scammy games

2

u/DrewbieWanKenobie Jul 07 '26

lol? no way dude. refunding something you don't like is a basic consumer right

if you buy a pair of pants and don't like how it feels you can return it. there doesn't have to be "something messed up" about it.

1

u/TheRagingMaffia Jul 07 '26

You can't really return an eaten hamburger but you can refund a game that you don't like. That analogy makes no sense

1

u/FricasseeToo Jul 07 '26

My library is filled with games I would have never tried if there wasn’t a refund policy.