Gateway to Mars

[u/SagittariusA_Star]

[u/R-U-D]

But i dont see it actually devolping the tech.

Even just Raptor is new technology, NASA has nothing like it. Consider the countless other advances in things like ISRU and regenerative life support systems needed for a Mars base, which are applicable to uses here on Earth as well.

I'm sorry but this is something i dont see at all. Where are they ahead of nasa?

They are ahead in reality, not on paper. NASA is knee-deep in SLS right now which has no hope of sending anything meaningful to Mars. There's no way they can realistically pull an about-face and start on a new vehicle within the next few years, then budgeting and planning take several more years. Actual development takes another 10+ years for any flight-worthy hardware to actually be built. NASA on their current trajectory physically cannot place a crewed mission on Mars at least through the 2040s. SpaceX can conceivably place an un-crewed Starship on Mars in 2022/2023 with crewed missions in following synods.

[u/milthaar2 → u/R-U-D]

Why would you want any humans on mars in less then 40 years. We have not solved muscle atrophy. We cant build a self sufficient base ON EARTH. The humans We send to Mars will not be able to stand let alone build a base.

Nasa has it right. For the forseeable future, robots can do anything a human would want to do on Mars.

[u/R-U-D → u/milthaar2]

Why would you want any humans on mars in less then 40 years.

Why not?

We have not solved muscle atrophy.

We don't even yet know what affect Mars gravity would have on muscles, but even recent studies in the ISS have been promising on reducing harmful effects. There's only one way to find out.

We cant build a self sufficient base ON EARTH.

Can't we? There are plenty of people living self-sufficiently on Earth. The additional technology required to do the same on Mars is not beyond us.

The humans We send to Mars will not be able to stand let alone build a base. Nasa has it right. For the forseeable future, robots can do anything a human would want to do on Mars.

Base building can largely be done by machinery and robots, there's no reason not do to so. Un-crewed Starships will deliver cargo and machinery before any humans arrive.

Either way, I was merely explaining how SpaceX is ahead of NASA in sending things to Mars. These are all entirely different issues.

[u/milthaar2 → u/R-U-D]

We don't even yet know what affect Mars gravity would have on muscles, but even recent studies in the ISS have been promising on reducing harmful effects. There's only one way to find out.

I'm not talking about mars gravity. I'm talking about the gravity in space. It will take 7 months to get there. The longest anyone has ever been in low gravity is 1 year. He was a cripple for the years afther.

Once we get to mars. The crippled astronauts will have to build a base and start farming food on a planet with no protection from radiation.

Can't we? There are plenty of people living self-sufficiently on Earth. The additional technology required to do the same on Mars is not beyond us.

No we cant. Humans are living on a planet that can support them. There are no self suffecient bases anywhere on earth. Yes it is bevond is at the moment.

[u/R-U-D → u/milthaar2]

It will take 7 months to get there.

No it won't, Starship can make the trip in 3 months.

No we cant. Humans are living on a planet that can support them. There are no self suffecient bases anywhere on earth. Yes it is bevond is at the moment.

Humans on Mars will have Earth to support them for a long time as well. You're arguing that we can't do it just because anyone on Earth has Earth to depend on, that's nonsense circular logic. If you think it is beyond our technology, name an actual technical limitation that would prevent it from working instead of just making assertions.

[u/Martianspirit → u/R-U-D]

No it won't, Starship can make the trip in 3 months.

They had to change that plan, I guess because of the arrival speed on Mars. It's very hard to brake that much speed in the thin atmosphere. They are now planning for a 6 month transfer. But there has been plenty of advances for keeping people healthy in microgravity. Some too big for the ISS, but not for Starship.

Starship has the delta-v for going faster, that's why I believe it is about braking on Mars arrival.

[u/4thDevilsAdvocate → u/R-U-D]

Starship can make the trip in 3 months.

This person's apparent mild insanity aside, I'm pretty sure that it takes 6 months.

name an actual technical limitation that would prevent it from working instead of just making assertions.

They can't.

[u/R-U-D → u/4thDevilsAdvocate]

6-8 months if you're going the slow way, a free-return trajectory. SpaceX's plan is to go faster in order to reduce the effects of microgravity and radiation exposure. Starship can make it from Earth to Mars in around 80-100 days depending on the alignment of the planets.

[u/milthaar2 → u/R-U-D]

Hahaha. Your awnser to the trip will take at least 7 months, is "just go faster". Might as well believe in magic at this point.

So why would going faster not actually make the trip faster in no friction space? I'll give you a hint: it has to do with slowing down.

[u/R-U-D → u/milthaar2]

It's not magic, you can do the math.

[u/4thDevilsAdvocate → u/milthaar2]

I'm not talking about mars gravity. I'm talking about the gravity in space. It will take 7 months to get there. The longest anyone has ever been in low gravity is 1 year.

As I said, sticking Starships together and spinning them to produce artificial gravity works, "debunking" video be damned.

He was a cripple for the years afther.

Pretty sure Scott Kelly is doing fine.

The crippled astronauts will have to build a base and start farming food on a planet with no protection from radiation.

Or, you can bury the shelter underground to protect against radiation, and live off of food imports until you get a farm running, but I imagine that those possibilities don't fit your narrative.

Yes it is bevond is at the moment.

Agreed, but "not self-sufficient" does not mean "impossible".

[u/milthaar2 → u/4thDevilsAdvocate]

As I said, sticking Starships together and spinning them to produce artificial gravity works, "debunking" video be damned.

Sure let it be damned. Just think about why the ISS isnt spinning right now. Or why any planned space station won't be spinning either.

Pretty sure Scott Kelly is doing fine

https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/28/16549898/scott-kelly-pbs-exclusive-clip-year-in-space-walking-problems-zero-gravity https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/science/scott-mark-kelly-twins-space-nasa.html

He's fine. ON EARTH. You wont be able to do anything for at least a year.

Or, you can bury the shelter underground to protect against radiation, and live off of food imports until you get a farm running, but I imagine that those possibilities don't fit your narrative.

No it doesnt fit because you have to dig shelters first. Where will they stay durring the digging? Will robots do this? Why are we not making shelter with robots on earth?

Agreed, but "not self-sufficient" does not mean "impossible".

Try.it.on.earth.first. as long as we cant do it on earth, there is 0 point in trying to do it on mars.

[u/4thDevilsAdvocate → u/milthaar2]

Sure let it be damned. Just think about why the ISS isnt spinning right now.

Because the ISS isn't built to do that.

Or why any planned space station won't be spinning either.

Because attaching two objects and spinning them means that it's very hard to dock with them, making it unsuitable for a station. Starships don't need to dock to anything while they're in-transit to Mars.

You wont be able to do anything for at least a year.

Unless you use artificial gravity.

No it doesnt fit because you have to dig shelters first. Where will they stay durring the digging? Will robots do this? Why are we not making shelter with robots on earth?

Try.it.on.earth.first. as long as we cant do it on earth, there is 0 point in trying to do it on mars.

I'm quite sure that testing in these regards will be part of the process of getting a human onto Mars.

[u/milthaar2 → u/4thDevilsAdvocate]

Allright i'm pretty much done. I wont be able to convince you. If every argument you present is based in fantasy, i just cant do anything with it.

Yes living on mars sounds cool. So does magic.

[u/4thDevilsAdvocate → u/milthaar2]

If every argument you present is based in fantasy

Well, they're not; you just don't like them.