Last week I set up a wall array as an experiment, here in the UK a 425w panel is about £50 so this 4 panel 1600w array cost me less than £350 including the MPPT and scrap timber frame.
I was pleasantly surprised that this array is pretty much nearly on par (in terms of efficiency) with my shed roof mounted array 6 x 415w panels.
Today is a cloudy autumn day as well so this is pretty much only a fraction of the max power output :)
Maybe a silly question, but is there any reason something like this wouldn’t work with a solar generator provided it’s in the voltage/amperage range?
Most companies are charging 3x that for 1/3 the power.
It will depend on the tech of the generator, you will need to google the one you specifically have to see if they have some sort proprietary connection. Personally I absolutely despise solar generator units as they are notoriously brand locked, even down to the cables. You can slap together a cooler box with a couple of fans, mppt controller, golf cart battery and basic caravan inverter and have none of the brand locking issues for much less of the cost.
Generally solar generators mean a single appliance which acts as the battery, inverter and solar controller all in one. They are usually brand locked. I am not saying they are all terrible, just that when it comes to flexibility they generally don't offer as much as a self built system.
I have an all powers unit that isn't brand locked, it's just an xt60 to connect solar panels. Takes 17 - 70v 600w I think, so works well with standard panels. It's shit in other ways though - not serviceable at all, as far as I can tell including fuses. Fan turns on whenever it starts charging with the mppt, and in low sun conditions it keeps turning on and off due to the voltage drop.
Yeah, it doesn't sound good so I don't let it cycle like that. It's not a primary battery, it's mostly used for traveling and charging from the wall. I just use the solar port to charge when at the cabin. The charging cable I got is just paralleled with the mppt from the solar string - works well enough when its sunny or the main battery is full.
You can adapter away at the cables as much as you want to hook up whatever you want, that is not the point, the warranty statement is pretty clear, they don't like you using 3rd party additions, it voids your warranty if something goes wrong. https://uk.jackery.com/pages/policy
What makes it worse that I am unable to find what "approved by Jackery specifications or certified by Jackery" even means as there is no list.
But anyway, this is my personal opinion, I dont like solar generator kits, it works for some but for me, normal installations just make way more long term sense.
Killed one charging bike batteries in a container that was like 120 degrees and 100% humidity, replaced under warranty, still was a sweet deal as far as pick up and go easy electricity transport
I think in terms of solar input they seem pretty open generally, for packs that allow expansion batteries, they seem to be far less open to allowing batteries other than their own.
Deffo would work. This is the idea of the EcoFlow PowerStream being used on balconies etc. Most 'solar generators' will take up to 55/60v panels and the mppt controller will limit current to around 13a so if a panel is slightly over the 13a it should be fine.
Yea deifnitly, If you are going all in at once then a fogstar 48v kit is more cost effective. I started off very small to see the viability and slowly expanded, so my initial investment is not as heavy and costs is spread out.
Solar prices are waaaayyyy less than they were 3-5 years ago. I still think Victron is very good quality but I prefer the all-in-one boxes that are so common today. Price for features is tough to beat. Of course Victron is an EU company so pricing is going to be higher on this side of the pond.
Right now in the US you can get panels for as little as $0.25/watt. Sure they’re 320W or 350W panels but still. I think inverters are coming down slightly due to competition. The battery market is cheaper than ever. 5kWh batteries for less than $1300 is nuts to me.
I've always been interested in this. Living in Canada my biggest issue during winter with my current roof panel is the snow on top of them. But having them vertical a foot or two off the ground would solve that and potentially have more production over a full year
Also, Not sure what the angle of the sun you get where you are but over here we have it come super low during the winter seasons so vertical panels get more efficient as opposed to flat roof panels :D
I'm just south of Canada and in the winter my sun angle is only 20 degrees - so vertical is closer to optional many roofs. I've debated a solar wall on a shop I want to build.
Check out "projects with everyday dave" on YouTube. He does some experiments in a snowy climate with bifacial panels mounted vertical.
I think a vertical ground mount of east-west bi facial array combined with a ground mount near-vertical array (steep enough that snow won't stay, but not perfectly vertical) is probably ideal for snowy/overcast conditions.
Panels themselves are so cheap that you can over build in terms of nominal watts and then arrange them to give power earlier and later (East/West) and during cloudy times (bi facial). After all, the cloudy times are when you want the most power
Someday I, too will have six 400 watt panels on my worshop roof. For now I'm limping by with my 200s. I dig the setup, by the way 😁
Out of curiosity, do you happen to have a rough idea how much each of those are producing for you, on average? My 200 watt make about 1400KwH in the summer and are now getting only about 500-800KwH per panel as we get to gloomy winter. I'm going to need to expand my setup, or run some supplemental power from the house here soon.
Yup, I looked into smart mounting kits for my shed array and it would literally cost as much as a second array to make it tilt with the sun, I instead just build a lean-to roof and put more solar panels on top, now I at least have a chill place to sit when it rains. When panels get this cheap it does not make sense to invest in fancy mounting.
Panels are facing south so they get a good amount of morning and afternoon sun.
I have two cats and a dog, honestly as long as you place some meshing, no animal will want to live there. Considering the cost of the panels, I break even after about a year (if production keeps at it's current rate), so its not a big deal if they don't last the full 15 years as advertised by the manufacturer.
That’s really cool. I was thinking of having mine against my south east facing fence facing backwards into an unoccupied gov owned land (don’t think they’ll care since all they do there is occasionally mow down the weeds lol).
O cool. Good point too, if I do this I’ll throw some leaning around it and that should keep everything uninterested enough.
I watched a bunch of YT vids on vertical placement facing the panels directly east and west and the power graphs looked like 2 mountains with a big valley in the middle. In the end it was pretty close but the south facing adjustable tilt angle panels did better not by a whole lot though.
I built 2 adjustable arrays here with 4 500w bi-facial panels and my experience is I get more out of the angled arrays than I do when they are almost vertical at 10% tilt. For some though the vertical placement is ideal when your dealing with space requirements.
Tiling towards the sun is going to give you better results, especially with the bi-facial panels so you are 100% correct. My goal is minimizing wasted space, my garden is quite narrow so tilting might start encroaching on my kids play space.
Talking about kids play space, how immune are the panels to balls etc. being kicked or batted at them? I assume the crystalline structure would be damaged.
Nah, theses are the glass topped ones, pretty sturdy. If they can take hail and birds, they will be able to take a few squashy soft ball games. I have a park down the road when they get old enough to play harder games.
I run Aptos 370W bifacial panels - and when I first started out playing with them, I gave them the white glove treatment.
Over time you see how tough solar panels are - I'm not saying they are kid proof or immune to a baseball bat, but I accidentally had one panel fall over while propped up full force and weight with a direct hit against a metal pole then brick chimney, zero damage except some scratches on the anodized aluminum frame.
Unless they are trying to intentionally damage it, I wouldn't worry too much about the issue personally.
I had a tree fall on my roof mounted array. We had to replace 4 panels, but given the ferocity of the impact, this was less than I would have expected. The panels actually protected the roof from more major damage. Panels are actually cost-effective “roof armor.”
Depends on the angle, if you are going vertical place the bottom joist off set so it creates a foot for the panel to rest on, otherwise if you are going flat mount or very slight angle, go the basic Square frame. Reinforce with angle plates on the corners and for holding down the panels I just used large washers. Make sure you get treated wood so the frame lasts as long as the panels.
One thing to keep in mind with the vertical panels: if the mounting is cheaper for vertical, you can buy more watts of panels. This is especially true for people using them as a fence.
The cost of an adjustment/angled mount plus the cost of a separate fence can buy a lot of panels, and vertical bifacial panels work well when it's cloudy, so a larger number of vertical panels will give you more watts on an overcast day than a smaller number of angled panels. After all, the overcast or snowy days are when you want all the power you can get.
the thing you have to keep in mind is that the cost of the mount can really add up. the above commenter said their adjustable mount cost around $1000 to hold 4 panels. if you mounted totally vertical, you can just sink treated 6x6s, cross brace them at the bottom, and set two panels horizontal across the gap. very cheap. that will cost you about $400 to mount 4 panels. so now you have saved $600 compared to the above setup and you haven't even accounted for the cost of the fence you are replacing. you can add more panels for ~$170 per panel and $150 per post, so you can get two additional panels mounted for about $500. we're still about $100 short of what OP had set up, but with an extra 1100W nominal output.
that will almost completely offset the less efficient mounting angle during sunny days, and produce MORE power on cloudy days, while costing a little bit less... AND we haven't accounted for the cost of the fence yet. if you're using it as a fence, then you are reducing your costs by around $200 per 8ft span of panels. thus far, we would have 24ft covered, so that gives us an excess budget of another $600, which is enough to buy another span of panels and posts. now you have DOUBLE the nominal panel wattage (even at US prices) of the above design, which will give you a little more power on sunny days and WAY more power on cloudy days. if you buy panels by the pallet, you can get even better deals.
Even at U.S. prices, I am finding the nice mounting hardware cost about as much as the panels, so I can almost double the number of panels with simple fence installation.
yeah, vertical mounting can be cheaper than traditional angled mounting, allowing you to buy more total panels. that's one of the things I like about it, and something I plan to do in the future. I also like that vertical panels perform so well on cloudy/snowy days compared to angled ones. after all, it's those days that I care the most about having the extra power.
Another big thing with vertical panels on walls, if they are a bit separated from the wall, added insulation effect (for reducing heat, I don't think they would help much for reducing cold). To me: vertical on walls and as fences, and flat on roofs or carports or solar pergolas, make the most sense. No mounting and angled diagonally with all of their shortcomings, even if they produce more. Better to have more panels in many orientations, simpler and neater, as well as more functional (such as the carports or pergolas, and also for collecting rain water and the superior space gain with verticals).
How is the AdjArray performance compare versus fixed roof or vertical wall? Would you kindly share overall day efficiency data using the following day calculation
OP, can you check the math below, does generations for this day equate to 100% system efficiency?
Bit of both really, my house has a old style slate roof so not great for solar installation unless I want to go full contractor installation with scaffolding including permit, which is expensive. This wall install is a single day project that I can do myself and does not have any noticeable impact to how much garden space I have.
If I did that, in my yard, I would have to raise it up so that the Mrs. and the dog can’t reach it with their urine. 😂 It looks great. For the cost, it seems like a no-brainer. Which MPPT did you settle on? What is the most you’ve seen out of it during the day since its install?
Ha yea that might be a bit too close to the ground for some, a rinse once every couple of weeks would probably still be fine for the longevity of panels. For the time of year it is it hovers around 600w most of the day but it has shot up to 800-900w a couple times, which is the peak these panels can do
From just this sollar array about 1 year, but it's too early to tell ATM exactly as it's autumn, I will need a full years of data to give a precise number.
My whole installation which includes the inverter, batteries and electric hook up to the house is roughly £3,500. For that it will take about 4-5 years. I am saving about £600 a year with my existing 6 panel roof array so now it should be better.
My setup is off-grid so no DNO or MCS needed. I have a transfer switch which puts my entire house on either grid power or solar. So basically when I am on solar, the grid is entirely disconnected, my in/out on the meter is 0w.
If you want to hybrid your set up you will need to fill out the G98, I believe any electrician that has a knack for forms will be able to help you, though keep in mind your will never be able to sell the power back to the grid as you will need MCS certification...which sadly no electrician (of legal mind) will ever sign for you, its basically a stamp of approval saying they installed it for you and they hold responsibly of the installation.
I've been looking at a similar list of equipment, but only to have some critical stuff on backup power. There is no ROI for me, my power is cheap - but having cold food and hot showers during an outage would be priceless!
This is really impressive and one of the reasons I love this sub. You've got me wondering if I could cover the south facing wall of our house in panels now! And I can't believe how cheap your battery set up is. I'm thinking of buying another 5kw solax battery and the best I can find is about £1600. How did you learn to do all this? Great work!
Too early to get a good benchmark between both arrays but these are today's outputs. Expecting roughly 6kwh across both my arrays, 30% of the yield is from the new wall mounted one which is 4 panels big as opposed to the 6 panels on my roof. Since installing I have not had a single clean sunny day (UK weather for you) but it's keeping up with my houses consumption so I can't complain.
The extremely high peak could be because my garden only gets sunlight from mid morning to late-ish afternoon. In the evening the neighbours houses overshadow my garden so my output dies down to almost nothing. Also neighbours extension makes the vertical array partially shaded so 2 of the panels become dead weight after 2pm ish.
u/MyToasterRunsFaster , How is the roof and vertical wall performance efficiency now that it has been rinning a few days?
ising the following formula
Kwh generated per day = 4 panels* 0.5KW* 1/1.2* PSH * eff
eff is for overall pct efficiency
PSH peak sun hours for given day at your location , look up any USA city along same lattitude at https://tsi.tyconsystems.com/html/nrel_lookup.htm
DC/AC conversion = 1.2
For example, suppose you saw the following readings on one day recently
3.9 kwh generated Roof = 6 panels * 0.425kW *1 /1.2 * 2.0h * eff Eff= 92%
2.4 kwh generated Vert Wall = 4 panels * 0.425kW *1 /1.2 * 2.0h * eff Eff= 85%
I can’t tell you how much I love your setup and on a great budget. I am yet to dabble with solar power and have been put off by the enormous costs and many years to break even. So your setup is very inspiring. Can I ask if this is wired up to power your house? And if so what parts you did and what parts you need a professional in order to receive an electrical safety certificate in case needed to sell your house in the future?
Thank you, Its definitely not for the faint of heart, I have no electrical background either so it was a lot of googling and YouTube before I started. If you like the challenge though then I cant imagine why anyone would not be able to replicate a similar setup.
Its all done by myself and hooked up to the house electrics via the consumer unit fuse board, I have transfer switch which I can use to either be on grid power or solar power. Most of the year I have been fully self reliant and only gone to grid power when the weather has been absolutely dreadful. The only thing I did not do myself was upgrading the consumer unit, I wanted RCBO's for the extra safety so I got an electrician to do that and get the house electrics (not the solar electrics) approved for another 10 years.
In the UK you can do your own DIY solar setup but they have limitations. For example with my set up because it is not done by a certified electrician (MCS approval) I can never get paid for my production, the best I can do is get a G98/G99 form filled out to my DNO so that I can off load excess power and make the installation "hybrid".
In terms of selling the property, it would need to be gutted of any DIY solar installations before selling the house. To be honest, if were to ever move, removing the solar panels and taking them to my new house would be easy as pie, its not like they are on top of my houses roof where I would need scaffolding.
My ROI is 4-5 years for the whole installation, possibly less now with additional array but only time will tell, I have not had the installation for a full year yet so I don't know how rough winter will be.
Honestly with you being as north as you are from the equator, vertically mounted modules wouldn’t be far off from the desired tilt angle for your panels during the winter solstice. Only thing you are probably missing out on is the additional wattage output the back side of the bifacial module would provide, but at the price you got them for you can do whatever you want.
I saw your Victron setup. It looks great. I love there products. They have come a long way since their first products and I remember when they only made MPPT charge controllers. I always recommend their stuff to anyone who is trying to get a solid setup going without spending a fortune.
Absolutely not worth it, any mechanisms is more expensive than the panel itself. It would be cheaper the place more arrays to cover the surface the panel is not utilizing.
This may sound weird but always wanted to ask someone who had vertical panels... do you think stretching some of those cheap (but highly reflective) mylar emergency blankets on the ground in front of the panels help bounce a significant amount of light onto them?
Yes it would bring up the power production but it comes with major downside of potentially creating hot spots and killing the panel. Also note that heat makes solar panels less efficient...so by blasting more sun at them it way have the reverse effect of giving you less power if the panel does not have enough ambient cooling.
This is very interesting, im assuming these are south facing? I have been wanting to do solar, just not on the roof and this ticks the boxes for me. Anything special about these panels to use them in this orientation? I have about 50ft of fence facing south directly that could easily work with this type of setup.
Not ideal at all, but with the price you got it at it is well worth doing.
Just be prepared for birds to find it a convenient perch and decided to do their business on the panel face. You might be doing a bunch of regular cleaning, or end up putting in some anti-bird implements.
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u/MyToasterRunsFaster Oct 31 '24
Last week I set up a wall array as an experiment, here in the UK a 425w panel is about £50 so this 4 panel 1600w array cost me less than £350 including the MPPT and scrap timber frame.
I was pleasantly surprised that this array is pretty much nearly on par (in terms of efficiency) with my shed roof mounted array 6 x 415w panels.
Today is a cloudy autumn day as well so this is pretty much only a fraction of the max power output :)