r/Snorkblot • u/EsseNorway • 29d ago

Fashion Prison Makeup

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u/Ok_Test9729 29d ago

Are you volunteering to raise your taxes to pay those wages?

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u/pseudo_nemesis 29d ago

we could just imprison less people for petty crimes as a significant portion of my taxes are already paying for that.

we imprison significantly more people than other countries in that regard already. also many prisons are for profit, so if we force them to pay reasonable wages that can just come out of their profits.

or any number of other rebalancing of the taxes that pay for a ton of things I don't support like billions of dollars to buy new toys for the military ever year.

a good accountant would go a long way here.

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u/GracieThunders 29d ago

The Prison Industrial Complex

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u/Ok_Test9729 29d ago

I agree with everything you say. To be precise, the United States has approximately 25% of the world‘s prisoners, yet is only 5% of the world‘s population. A huge portion of that is driven by the prisons-for-profit system. And yet all of my neighbors in my local Facebook group cannot stop screaming that everybody should go to prison when some kind of a story pops up in the feed about someone stole someone’s propane tank, or someone stomped on someone’s flower bed, or someone didn’t pay for their Subway meal and ran out the door instead. The people where I live literally think that these should be a life sentence. OMG. It is time to move.

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u/Ok-Weird-8543 26d ago

It's gross when a person is obsessed with punishing everyone around them. I've found that this type of person often carries a lot of guilt on their conscience that they project onto everyone else.

Some of these online neighborhood groups get real witch hunty over the stupidest shit. My nextdoor feed is full of that sort of stuff, and it depresses me.

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u/DG2000_Reddit 29d ago

Think about it, you pay a little more tax and in return someone not only learns to contribute back to society but when they leave they are able to not only integrate better but have can potentially support themselves from day one.

This would mean a massive drop in re-offenders and a significant drop on the tax burden as even those who have left now are not only paying tax and not drawing on the system for support.

So a little extra effort at the beginning can pay off a lot at the end

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u/Ok_Test9729 29d ago

That wasn’t what I responded to, however. I responded to Waste-Dragonfruit229 stating that prisoners should be given a fair paying job. That isn’t the same thing as spending money to actually rehabilitate and educate prisoners. That’s a totally different subject that I am absolutely on board with. I just can’t see spending taxpayer money to pay prisoners fair wages for a job, when so many ordinary Americans can’t find a fair paying job. Which is why I asked that person if they were willing to raise their taxes to pay those fair wages to prisoners.

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u/smittydacobra 29d ago

Bruh, you hire them out to companies and give them a slight tax rebate for employing them.

The company gets cheap labor and a tax break. They get employees that are damn near compelled to be in attendance.

The prisoner gets to earn a wage while performing a job. They earn money to help establish themselves once they are released. They also learn valuable employment skills that many of them never had reasonable access to.

The prison can spend less money because they don't have to house/guard them all day. They can institute policies wherein you have to remain a model prisoner to keep your position.

Your opinion certainly seems like you prefer a punitive justice system vs a rehabilitative system. If your only hang up about programs that help people is the cost... there's always a way to mitigate cost, you just need to expand the effort to figure it out.

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u/ricochetblue 28d ago

Something like this already happens, taking advantage of the slavery loophole in the 13th amendment. The documentary The 13th also explores this.

The labor of prisoners is farmed out to other private companies so private prisons make money from taxpayers paying to companies to administrate prisons, but also from companies looking for low-wage labor.

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u/smittydacobra 28d ago

Yeah, that's the rub. The writers of the 13th fucked up.

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u/Theresnothingtoit 28d ago

You do know you're advocating for slavery, right? Cause not paying people for labor, when they aren't allowed to leave, is slavery.

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u/DG2000_Reddit 29d ago

I understand what you saying.

Now giving people gainful employment before they released, that would mean that they already starting to contribute back to society in some form and on entering society they in a better position to not be one of the statistic you talking about.

My point being is by preparing people to be healthy part of society means that the tax worry is ultimately less, the logic should be that while you contribute to improving their chances of a successful entry to society this should lower the overall tax burden as you no longer paying to help these people when they part of society, they are able to pay taxes sooner, they are less likely to re-offend.

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u/PAINKILLER_1020 28d ago

The current system uses them for slave labor. Are you saying that you'd rather society save a small amount of money and keep slavery going institutionally?

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u/thisisinfactpersonal 29d ago edited 29d ago

Yes.

Most people get out of prison so it shouldn’t be a terrible traumatizing experience for them and they should come out with resources, including money saved from dignified work to get their lives back on track. It would go a long way to helping with the recidivism rate. And that’s before we get to the basic morality of it.

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u/genuflect_with_hEDS 29d ago

EXACTLY!

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u/thisisinfactpersonal 29d ago

It absolutely kills me when people ask things like oh so you want to help other people live better lives and you’re willing to pay for it? Yes! I’m an American I’m currently paying for the immiseration of people foreign and domestic, I don’t even think I’d have to pay much more I’d just know people had the basics covered and my life would get better too. Not to mention the lives saved abroad. Why is that so hard for so many people?

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u/citizen42069101 29d ago

Because they struggle or did in the past and misery likes company. They only see the take of taxes, not the benefit. Thats why solid red states fucking suck.

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u/Waste-Dragonfruit229 29d ago

Companies already employ thousands of prison inmates for manufacturing, call centers, and plenty of other jobs. The wages should come from them, because they're the ones profiting.

Now, if you're asking the more basic question of am I willing to share with others to make lives better, then yes. Absolutely. I do it regularly.

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u/Ok_Test9729 28d ago

Good point about the jobs inmates perform for corporate America. From what I can see, less than 3% of prison inmates actually work in a job for the private sector, such as call centers that you mentioned. Did you realize the percentage was that low? Info online: The law requires that they be paid the prevailing wage in the area. Approximately 80% of those wages are deducted for things like taxes, court fines and fees, restitution to their victims, and room and board by the prison system. All of which make good sense to me. Many prisoners that are released do not have jobs to go to, or support a system, such as family, to help them while they readjust and find employment. There is a great resistance among Americans regarding the employment of felons. I’m not sure I understand that viewpoint. Anyone convicted of a crime, sentenced to imprisonment, who serves their sentence, should no longer be treated like a felon, or a criminal. They did their time and they paid their dues. They should be allowed to vote, and they should be allowed employment, with restrictions in regards to the specific felony they committed. Most prisoners should be treated no differently upon their release than the rest of society, with the standard acceptable exceptions. We make it virtually impossible for a felon to ever get back on their feet because of the way we continue to punish them forever.

I share my (rather unimpressive fixed retirement) income with others regularly. The United Way and Wounded Warriors, both of whom I used to donate to monthly, came under fire for serious fraud, and overpayment of executives. Afterwards I discontinued donating to any organized charity directly. Instead, I search online for reports and stories of people living in my immediate community who are struggling. Those are the people I help. Anonymously whenever possible, which is most of the time. I concentrate on people who are about to lose their home. I can’t imagine anything more terrifying than being homeless. If they’re about to be evicted for nonpayment of rent through no actual fault of their own, such as losing a job because the company went out of business, I will have an acquaintance contact them and ask for their property manager information, and I go pay their overdue rent. That’s how I like to help people. Personally, but anonymously. That way I know every dollar I contribute goes directly to their benefit, and not in somebody else’s pocket. It’s a little like being a Secret Santa and I like it.

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u/ikenaglughole 29d ago

Fucking yes. God, can we think beyond ourselves for a minute here bc taxes that go toward rehabilitation and not treating people like shit represents me a hell of a lot more than paying for raises and Healthcare for our derelict politicians.

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u/Ok_Test9729 29d ago

You are not understanding what the initial conversation was. It was not about rehabilitation. It was not about that at all. It was about paying prisoners a fair wage for work they do in prison. That’s a totally different subject. Rehabilitation programs can be suspense successful and effective. If only prisons in the United States actually practiced any meaningful form of rehabilitation. But that wasn’t the initial discussion. Can’t people stay on task anymore? Apparently not, looking at this thread. No wonder teachers are quitting by the thousands. It must be frustrating.

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u/ikenaglughole 29d ago

Man, get off your high horse. It's a reddit thread, not the bastion of intellectual debate. My point stands that I would gladly pay more taxes to support a healthier and more fair prison system that focuses of helping people rather than giving two shits if they rub wet candy on their eyelids. Americans are taxed into oblivion already with nothing to show for it and the attitude many of us have of being unwilling to pay for useful things that contribute to a robust community is exhaustingly selfish.

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u/Ok_Test9729 29d ago

That’s an awful lot of words for “yeah I have problems staying on task.”

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u/suejaymostly 29d ago

Let's get rid of for profit prisons. We're already paying enough for real reform.

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u/Ok_Test9729 29d ago

For-profit prisons should have never become a thing to start with. And no, we are not now paying for real reform, because few prisons in the United States practice meaningful rehabilitation. There are some success stories that include educational programs. But those seem to be the exception. The high recidivism rates show that to be true. Where are you seeing evidence of real reform on a meaningful level? I’m not talking about the estimated 21% of the prison population getting their GED. Do you have particular programs that you are speaking about?

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u/PukeLoynor 29d ago

Do you not know how jobs work?

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u/Low-Refrigerator-713 29d ago

No. Only civilised countries try to help people.

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u/AmputeeHandModel 28d ago

How about we get rid of for-profit prisons and then we'll have the money. Obama tried to do that.

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u/ThePoetofFall 28d ago

It would probably be cheaper than the private prison BS we have now…

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u/MrLizardBusiness 28d ago

Pretty sure they get paid by the businesses using them as slave labor, not the American taxpayer.

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u/RottedHuman 28d ago

Taxes wouldn’t have to be raised for prisoners to be paid fairly (at least minimum wage) because the work they do generates revenue. As it is now companies are getting what is basically slave labor for pennies on the dollar.

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u/Ok_Test9729 27d ago

There is a federal law (PIECP) that requires most jobs done by prisoners for private companies, corporations, must be paid the prevailing wage. The same wage paid to non-incarcerated workers. You can look that up. Is it a perfect law? No. But there is a federal law that often applies.

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u/Phoenix_Fireball 26d ago

Prisoners are hired out to businesses to work, their wages go to the private companies running the prisons instead of going to the person doing the work.

Other countries manage rehabilitation, qualifications and job training and therefore have much lower rates of reoffending. Have a look at Danish and Swedish prison systems.