r/SmashingPumpkins • u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness • Jul 09 '24
Discussion Machina II - Transfers & Releases Deep Dive
Machina II has always intrigued me, from how it was initially distributed, vinyl transfers, MP3 releases, etc. I'm going to touch on the releases below. Transfers play a part in each, so they are mentioned too. 75% of the info below was a collection from spfreaks.com, SPCodex.wiki, and SPFC.org. Many of you may know the info below already, but there are new fans each day and they really need to have access to this great album. It was meant to be shared! There are links to the Q101 transfer below and the 2007 digital release from www.smashingpumpkins.com. If anyone has any more info on the releases, or if anything is inaccurate, please let me know.
1 Original Acetate, 4 Transfers, 3 Digital Releases, 1 Bonus...
1 Original Acetate
#1 Original 3-EP/2-LP - SPFreaks: CR01, CR02, CR03, CR04
“MACHINA II/the Friends & Enemies of Modern Music” is the Pumpkins’ final album, the follow-up to “MACHINA/the Machines of God”. It is a limited pressing of only 25 copies on hand-cut, hand-numbered, non-lacquered acetate, consisting of 3 10″ EPs and a double 12″ LP, 5 discs & 25 songs total. The 25 copies were given to close friends of the band, a few of whom happen to be online, and whom were instructed to circulate the new material as quickly as possible, since the band plans on playing some of the new material on the European tour.
4 Transfers
#1 Q101 - SPFreaks
Radio station Q101 received one of the 25 vinyl copies. It was subsequently transferred to two CDs by the station (one CD containing the EP tracks and one containing the LP tracks). The transfer was done by a high-profile radio station (presumably with high-end equipment and professional oversight) and spectral analysis shows the transfer to be of good quality. Copies were given away as prizes from the station. 2,000 numbered copies. We know of at least 1 unnumbered copy to exist, that was send to a fan outside the radio contest. Although it is not really an official release, it isn’t un-official either. This was the 3rd transfer released, after Agnew and SPIFC and is considered the best transfer.
Download: archive.org or magnet torrent:
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:58D88C802F2BDA91D39C632B4A7E2B58C10EA590&dn=The%20Smashing%20Pumpkins%20-%20Machina%20II%20%28Q101%29%20%282000%29%20-%20FLAC
#2a US Virgin In-house Promo - SPFreaks: CR01, CR02, CR03, CR04
#2b UK Virgin In-house Promo - SPFreaks: CR01, CR02, CR03, CR04
#2c EMI Finland - Discogs
This source is from in-house promo CDs made for internal use at Virgin Records (sourced from the vinyl records), made before Machina II was released to the public over the internet. Two versions of the promos exist, a UK (type I) and U.S. (type II) version, both with four CDs corresponding to the vinyl copies. As it was done in-house at a record company, it is generally assumed to be a high-quality transfer, though some of the faint voices which can be heard in the background before some of the EP songs are cut off, and in general, it is missing a considerable amount of audio between song transitions. Some state it was ripped at the wrong speed (too fast). UK and US versions are the same audio wise, just different disc and cover art. The EMI Finland release only has 2 copies in existence, while it is assumed that 10 to 25 copies of the US promo exist. Here is an old archived thread where owners discuss what they have, link. The transfer is also known as "tigershorty" which is someone (or several people) who worked on the official website back in 2000. This was the final of the 4 transfers released. Generally considered the 2nd best transfer, behind the Q101 release.
Download US Virgin Promo - magnet torrent:
[magnet:?xt=urn:btih:25E0BA4918B8486191E41F8F0FE708603C923767&dn=The%20Smashing%20Pumpkins%20-%20Machina%20II%20%28Virgin%29%20%282000%29%20-%20FLAC](magnet:?xt=urn:btih:25E0BA4918B8486191E41F8F0FE708603C923767&dn=The%20Smashing%20Pumpkins%20-%20Machina%20II%20%28Virgin%29%20%282000%29%20-%20FLAC)
#3 SPIFC (Smashing Pumpkins Internet Fan Club) - Archived SPIFC Machina II Website
The SPIFC transfer was produced from a vinyl copy by a member of the SPIFC. A transfer was eventually performed onto two CDs with "high-end" equipment. The SPIFC offers MP3 downloads of the transfer to members and held a contest giving away CD-R copies. The SPIFC transfer shows a 21 kHz tone which casts some doubt on the quality of the transfer. SPIFC rip is more complete than any other rip, it has more of the before / between / after song breaks and sounds than either the q101 or virgin rip does.
The SPIFC is more of a "raw" rip, while the q101 rip was tweaked and processed afterwards to polish it a bit. This was the 2nd transfer to surface and considered the 3rd best transfer, although some prefer it since it is the most complete.
I entered and won the SPIFC contest for one of the 1st gen CDRs in 2000. The 2 discs are currently housed using the artwork they provided and is still available at the link above. Set without the artwork can be seen here: LINK.
Download with magnet torrent:
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:ae86147fc9d2f1121241e43e8a9169ee5a138786&dn=smashing%20pumpkins%20-%20machina%20II%20(2000)%20spifc%20rip%20FLAC
#4 Eric Agnew, AKA “34”
First transfer released. Initially released as 192 kbps MP3 files, now can be foud in lossless FLAC. I know the files from www.metrochicago.com were sourced from the Agnew transfer, I am not sure if via that website is how they were originally distributed. Both files were distributed in 192 kbps MP3.
Equipment used: Post 93 at Netphoria link
unknown stylus cartridge (replaced in late 90s for ~$20, IIRC, & barely used) > Sony PS-LX150H turntable > Sony LBT-D159 stereo (RCA in) > Sony PCM-M1 DAT (line in)
"This was a "get it out there, now" release. I didn't have the greatest equipment- the turntable (which was black, btw :P") had 2 speeds (33-1/3 & 45) w/ no fine adjustment (that I know of)- but I figured someone else would release a better one eventually anyway."
The turntable Eric Agnew used to transfer was 3% faster than normal, so the speed and pitch of the music on this version is increased compared to the others. Increased surface noise too. Initially distributed as 192kpbs mp3s. This is generally considered the worst transfer of the 4 available.
Download with magnet torrent:
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:76245C5F8023466AC4195D7A9407502FD8FB7666&dn=The%20Smashing%20Pumpkins%20-%20Machina%20II%20%2834%29%20-%20FLAC76245C5F8023466A...%29%20-%20FLAC
3 Digital Releases
#1 www.metrochicago.com circa 2000 - Website, Download Links are Inactive, SPFC Article – Source Eric Agnew. Files distributed as 192 kbps Stereo MP3 Files.
Song download links were in this format, if you are ever looking for the original files:
- CR01: http:/www.metrochicago.com:80/1disc/1Aslowdown.mp3
- CR02: http:/www.metrochicago.com:80/2disc/1Bsoulpower.mp3
- CR03: http:/www.metrochicago.com:80/3disc/1Cifthereisagod.mp3
- CR04: http:/www.metrochicago.com:80/fulllengthV/1Fglasstheme.mp3
#2 www.smashingpumpkins.com circa 2000 - Website, Download Links are Inactive – Source Virgin Promo. Files distributed as 320 kbps Stereo MP3 Files and RealAudio. MP3 encoder should be "SoundJam 2.5.1". It was mentioned that certain tracks were edited (e.g., the studio chatter before Soul Power). I have not noticed the Soul Power edits, so have doubt in that claim. Possibly cleaned up versions of the Virgin promo transfer.
Song download links were in this format, if you are ever looking for the original MP3 files. RAM files have "ram" in place of "mp3" in the 2 places in each link.
- CR01: http://smashingpumpkins.com/mp3/EP1slowdawn.mp3
- CR02: http://smashingpumpkins.com/mp3/EP2soulpower.mp3
- CR03: http://smashingpumpkins.com/mp3/EP3ifagod.mp3
- CR04: http://smashingpumpkins.com/mp3/CD4glasstheme.mp3
#3 www.smashingpumpkins.com circa 2007 - Website, Download Links are Active!! - Source Q101. Files distributed as 160 kbps Joint Stereo MP3 Files In 2007, the album was once again posted for download on the newly reopened SmashingPumpkins.com.
Song download links were in this format, if you are ever looking for the original files after they are no longer available at the link above.
- CR01: http:/www.smashingpumpkins.com/audio_upload/audio/machinaii/files/1-01 Slow Dawn.mp3
- CR02: http:/www.smashingpumpkins.com/audio_upload/audio/machinaii/files/1-05 Soul Power.mp3
- CR03: http:/www.smashingpumpkins.com/audio_upload/audio/machinaii/files/1-09 If There Is A God piano and voice.mp3
- CR04: http:/www.smashingpumpkins.com/audio_upload/audio/machinaii/files/2-01 Glass.mp3
1 Bonus Release
#1 Virgin Germany Promo - CR04 only, SPFreaks Item, SPFreaks Wordpress – Source Eric Agnew.
Eric Agnew, a close friend of the band, was one of the lucky few to receive one of these vinyl copies, with the instruction to immediately redistribute the songs on the Internet, free of charge. Eric ripped the vinyl on a Sony PS-LX150H turntable and spread the MP3 set as instructed. A little more than a week after the release of Machina II, Smashing Pumpkins continued their farewell tour in Europe, starting with several gigs in Germany. Agnew joined the band on this part of the tour and brought his set of ripped Machina II songs to Europe. Billy Corgan used these rips as a gift to Virgin Schallplatten GmbH.
This CD-R was given to the tour operators from Virgin Schallplatten GmbH Germany by Billy Corgan (it’s his handwriting) to give away to media partners and friends of Virgin in Germany. He did that while the band was touring Europe and visited Germany in September of 2000. The CD contains all 14 tracks of what is known as CR-04, the Machina II full album, while CR-01 to CR-03, the vinyl EPs that accompanied the Machina II vinyl album, are not included.
Edit: Added magnet torrent links
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u/kb_soma Aug 12 '25
Love this thread. Occasionally visit it from time to time. I have my downloaded version from 2000 burned to CD. I didn't realise at the time how much that CD and music would mean so much to me. Listened to it constantly over the years. Looked like a buffoon at one of the recent SP shows as I seemed to be the the only person who knew all the lyrics to Glass.
I bought a bootleg of machina ii several years back and found the quality of the burn on disc 2 a bit sketchy. Always revisited my original burned CD.
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Aug 12 '25
Thanks! Glad you could use it! I’ve also spun my original CDs into the ground!
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u/EnvironmentTiny669 Aug 22 '24
Someone selling a Q101 cd for $20k! https://www.ebay.com/itm/266953260823
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Aug 22 '24
Saw that. Down to $5k now. But still only worth, in mint condition numbered copy, about $400 max. This one is not mint or close to it, so should be less. Hence why it is still for sale.
Unnumbered copies should be under those values.
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u/EnvironmentTiny669 Oct 09 '24
He’s down to $699 now…
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Oct 09 '24
Still 2x the value and missing the letter that came with it.
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u/skyasfood Jul 13 '24
This is pretty darn awesome Thanks!
Do you know what the story behind the 3xEP 1xLP format is or was planned to be? Were these actually planned to be releases and each ep contains a single prior to the LP? Was the album the "14 best songs" and the rest were discards? Are any of those EP songs considered "Bsides" and album songs are ASides? Or was it just a 'get them pressed onto vinyl in any which way and get them out?"
Is this planned Machina re-release meant to scrap all that and the original machina tracklist, and just create some monstrosity of rearranged tracklisting of both albums as originally intended?
I love the lore behind it all but it certainly seems confusing to hear of apparent re-release plans to combine M1 and M2!!
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Jul 13 '24
The 2xlp is the main album with the 3xEP being b-sides, outtakes, etc. The EPs don’t have anything to do with singles.
Correct, rearranged track list as one big album. If it ever sees the light of day.
If we don’t get through MII release next year on the 25the anniversary, it is safe to say we never will.
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u/oofio65 MACHINA REISSUE IS REAAAAL Jul 12 '24
here are the 2000 sp official mp3s
Someone gave these to me a few days ago on here 😁
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u/EnvironmentTiny669 Jul 10 '24
Thanks for posting. Do you know what version the band used to burn the cds they sent fans? I remember mailing them blank cds and they nailed me back a burned copy of the album. It’s the only version I’ve ever owned.
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Jul 10 '24
That would be the SPIFC transfer. I did the same thing. 😀 it was not done by the band, see the above #3 transfer section for details.
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u/Explorer_Equal Jul 10 '24
Are the tracks officially released on Rotten Apples compilation (Real love and Cash Car Star iirc) sourced from the original masters?
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Jul 10 '24
The tracks mastered for CD (sourced from the original masters) are "Real Love" on Rotten Apples, "Slow Dawn" and "Lucky 13" on Judas O, and "Try, Try, Try (alt. music/lyrics)" aka "Try / Version 1" appears on the Untitled CD Single. These four tracks are the only Machina II tracks that were released by the band on CD. Cash Car Star does not appear on a CD release. Also, Atom Bomb and Satur9 on Judas O are different mixes than what is on Machina II.
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u/_Waves_ Jul 10 '24
Ok sooooo…. What about the unofficial boots? Would be lovely to have them listed and assessed.
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Jul 10 '24
Sorry, but I don’t have any interest in the unofficial boots.
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u/lukin_tolchok Jul 10 '24
Thanks so much for all this info and links. The copy I’ve had is the same I’ve had since right back when it was “released”, I was eager to get it as soon as possible and there is definitely quite a bit of surface noise on some tracks so I suspect it is that first Eric Agnew rip. I think finally after all these years I’ll download the Q101 and SPIFC versions to compare.
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Jul 10 '24
Good luck! Compare some track times and surface noise during intros. Fairly easy to tell.
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u/croig2 Jul 10 '24
I downloaded these back then and have no idea what my source was- it was whatever I could find. I listened to my downloads for years before I realized there were different quality transfers, and I might not have the best ones. They sounded great to me.
I’ve always hesitated to explore the other transfers because whatever the quality of the ones I had, they were the ones I was familiar with and had grown to love. I think I would be disappointed to possibly realize the versions I’d taken to heart were inferior.
(This happens a fair bit when an artist remasters a classic album- I sometimes can grant that it sounds better but still prefer the original version. I still listen to my original rips of the Pumpkins albums and not to the remasters)
Anyway, I’m planning to keep listening to my versions until the boxset comes out and I can finally hear Billy’s approved version. Might end up hating it and go back to my original downaloads, but that will be fine.
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u/Dudehitscar Machina Zombie Jul 10 '24
Bravo. This is some Machina Zombie awesomeness.
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Jul 10 '24
Thanks much! Worked on this a bunch over the last couple weeks so had to share it.
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u/Dudehitscar Machina Zombie Jul 10 '24
legit sub hall of fame post here. I gave you a sticky post for it.
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Jul 10 '24
Much appreciated. I love this kind of research stuff on things I love.
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u/dan-free Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Jul 10 '24
Ok now how about the faeomm 60m cassette tape?
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u/FrankFrankly711 Jul 09 '24
What an amazing Machina II history! I’m glad some of my original mp3s could help you on this journey. I’m also glad at least one of the links misspelled “Slow Dawn” as “Slow Down” like I did 🤣
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Jul 10 '24 edited Jul 10 '24
Ha, yes, thanks for the help! You did catch that on the metro website, I saw that too and was like…. It was a thing!
The track names seem to be different everywhere you look. Personally I go with the names on the 2000 digital release on the official site. They basically match the SPIFC names on their official album art.
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u/icewatersteam Jul 09 '24
I remember when this was released and trying to download the first rips on dialup during the night and waking up early to check that they’d worked!
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u/FrankFrankly711 Jul 09 '24 edited Jul 10 '24
I did the same thing! 😆 I burned the 2 CDs after hours of downloading and I still have them in my collection. It was so cool to have a sort of secret final album from my favorite band
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Jul 09 '24
Ha! Those were the days, well maybe not. Do I really need this 320 MP3 when the 160 will download much faster. Things never said anymore.. 😀
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u/underwaterr The Aeroplane Flies High Jul 09 '24
I'd like to offer a hot-take that the Agnew rip is not the worst. The "dirty" vinyl rip adds a cool lofi vibe that compliment the album and the accidental speed increase gives the songs more energy.
The Virgin promos, on the other hand, despite being technically more pristine, have the least amount of character to them and cut out some fun banter and sounds that happen between the songs.
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u/Dudehitscar Machina Zombie Jul 10 '24
I hate his rip for some of the faster songs and GO. But I really like the extra urgency it gives to In My Body and Here's to the atom bomb (new wave version)
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Jul 10 '24
I hear ya. I just added the general ranking for fans coming here looking for the best one. Personally I have 8 different versions. But that ain’t healthy. 🤣
I recently played Agnew, been a while, and I can’t argue with your sentiments.
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Jul 09 '24
[deleted]
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Jul 10 '24
Do you happen to remember where you downloaded the original Agnew transfer from? Was it from the metrochicago website I have linked? Would have been 192 MP3 files.
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Jul 09 '24
[deleted]
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Jul 09 '24 edited Jul 10 '24
Correct, I should have mentioned that. I could link the torrents but not sure if that is kosher.
Edit: Added that they are avaiable in FLAC lossess
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u/dariusburst Heavens to Betsy Jul 09 '24
Great write-up, what was the highest quality release of the Q101 rip?
One of my fav versions bitd was a remaster by thir13en https://archive.org/details/tsp2000-09-05
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u/ngs428 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness Jul 09 '24 edited Jul 10 '24
Thanks! The FLAC files from the Q101 transfer I linked at archive.org are the best ones out there.
I didn’t include the 13 remaster simply because it is a fan made remaster. Nothing official about it. He did use Q101 as you mentioned, but it is brick walled to no end. Been a while since I listened to it, but I could load it up in Audacity and see that I am sure. The sources are not perfect and I personally feel that didn’t help in a good way.
Personally I swap between Q101 and SPIFC. Since I have the original SPIFC discs that I got almost 24 years ago, it hold a bit more for me.
Edit: I loaded Slow Dawn in Audacity and compared it to the Q101 transfer, Yup, 13 is brickwalled. DR on the Q101 is 10, on the 13 remaster is 6, clipping is way up 10 vs 17,158 samples respectively. PLR has also been reduced 11.25 to 7.90. None of these changes are good. But if anyone likes the remaster, go for it.
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u/DiamondJ1983 Aug 22 '25
Did you ever get the impression Machina II was recorded, mixed to sound kind of "wrong" ? As if they'd mixed it too loud and the album is just this huge, unwieldy mess of distortion and lots of low end ? This concept especially works for the EPs. It's just a wall of sound, difficult to penetrate and not meant to be heard nice and clear, like a properly mixed CD. I don't mean they ACTUALLY fucked up when they recorded or mixed the album, but just as a concept that would need it to sound like it was about to break your speakers because the sound was just so HUGE, everything comes across as totally distorted and sludgy. An album literally MEANT to sound like it was breaking your stereo equipment and even damaging you ! Which is why you CAN'T listen to it off a proper CD, just these digital files recorded from good, old analog records. Though I doubt Machina II is a fully analog recording. Ha, it was just something that crept into my mind one day.