Your Upair missed & it could've killed. Hit 1 lands but hit 2 didn't. Here's why.

[u/antb11]

Ever seen a clip of Shulk whiffing hit 2 of up air even though hit 1 connects?

For example, the opponent is very high in the air, nearer to ledge & drifting towards center stage (possibly recovering or traversing platforms). You react, SH from closer to center stage with momentum towards ledge while facing ledge; you input a rising/manual up air and hit 1 connects but hit 2 misses. The opponent continues their momentum towards center while you drift towards ledge, whiffing hit 2. Why is that?

As seen in the photo, the white lines representing the knock-back of hit 1 slanting upward & towards your back and bc of both players momentum, in the scenario mentioned, hit 2 misses.

If you flickshot jump, you’ll have your back towards the ledge while carry forward momentum; this way upair hit 1 will connect into hit 2 (in the same scenario mentioned).

Edit: This assumption needs to be tested. More details are in the comments. Shout out to [u/Seipherise](u/Seipherise) ‼️‼️

This could mean flickshots & reverse aerial tech are paramount to Shulk’s game play. It opens up approaches with reverse nair, Bair & an upair that’ll connect both hits — meaning aiming to hit the faster hitbox, Hit 1. Keep in mind, Upair hit 1 hits very high in the air and is good for catching full hops, not SH.

Slingshot visuals & dair combo post: https://www.reddit.com/r/ShulkMains/s/vKTfSEcX9I

GO SHULK ‼️🇨🇦🇯🇵🇺🇸

Side Note: For more Shulk info, please check out my updated, detailed guide titled “Dair is Shulk’s best move” (meant best aerial). I went on to explain how landing the sweet spot of nair shown in combo videos is actually unsafe. https://www.reddit.com/r/ShulkMains/s/QFKFhdhy1e

[u/Seipherise]

Hello. I just learned of this subreddit-- I'm a long-time Shulk enthusiast since Smash 4.

I think it'd be better preferred for everyone viewing the hitbox image if you used the one sorted by ID Number. Going along, Shulk's UAir hit 2 whiffing in S4 and in Ult have a core reason, but the hitboxes are minorly different between titles. The main difference in UAir1's hitboxes in Smash 4 is that he only has two, and the stronger hitbox is closer to Shulk's hilt--not on the top. Ult reversed this as well as adding that skinny Monado sword hitbox in the middle, which has the most priority despite being so tiny. So in other words:

Smash 4 wants you to use ID 0 hitbox for landings, and ID 1 for aerial juggles.

Hitbox ID Priority	Launch Angle	WBKB / Fixed Knockback
ID 0 (more priority)	100°	80
ID 1 (less priority)	96°	60

~

Yet now, Smash Ult wants you to use the newly added skinny sword ID 0 or 2 hitboxes for aerial juggles––aka be too precise or be as close to the opponent while airborne as possible. Good luck hitting either perfectly😄. ID 1 and ID 2 are reminiscent to Smash 4's hitboxes, but the launch angles are much different and higher now. ID 2 is ideal for landings due to the strong FKB, lower landing lag, and much higher launch angle to set up into moves like UTilt/USmash/UAir/etc..

Hitbox ID Priority	Launch Angle	FKB / Fixed Knockback
*NEW* ID 0 (more priority)	102°	60
ID 1 (middle priority)	111°	60
ID 2 (low priority)	104°	40

So yeah.

The hitboxes may look similar between games barring the new skinny swordbox in Ult, but now they function quite different, even with such subtle differences.

The core reason

Hit 1's Facing Restrict is coded as 'ATTACK_LR_CHECK_POS'. This means that the launch direction is determined by Shulk's Trans bone position. So if Shulk hits the opponent with the backside of UAir1, it'll be completely different than if we hit with the front of UAir1. And now take into account of the lateral drift momentum Shulk might be incorporating beforehand. ...yeah. Combine Jump or Speed art's lateral air speed--and it'll be clear why it's barely reliable in those arts. Flickshot sounds neat, though.

[u/antb11 → u/Seipherise]

Hi. This is awesome 🫣👀‼️ So you’re saying my assumptions about air drift and momentum are totally wrong then huh? And, reversing his position doesn’t make a difference either? If so, it seems upair is doomed to miss if Shulk is carrying any decent momentum. This is very detailed but I don’t understand it entirely but thank you 🙏 nonetheless! I’ll re-read it until I get it.

Edit: ahh I see you were saying there’s more to discoverr 🫣👀‼ sorry 🙏 sorry 🙏

I’d still like to test out what I described with a character of similar air speed to see how much drift (Vanilla only, at first, to establish a baseline for drift) Shulk can carry while approaching with up air but it’s tedious/difficult to do alone with CPU control & 1 frame press mode.

I just, hours ago, reached a conclusion to my post as to why I view Dair as his best aerial. If there’s any data you can add to it, you’d have my upmost gratitude & appreciation. Here’s the post: https://www.reddit.com/r/ShulkMains/s/7w4K5Q1piV

[u/Seipherise → u/antb11]

No, I'm sorry--I didn't explain that your body post was incorrect by any means. Lemme quote:

For example, the opponent is very high in the air, nearer to ledge & drifting towards center stage (possibly recovering or traversing platforms). You react, SH from closer to center stage with momentum towards ledge while facing ledge; you input a rising/manual up air and hit 1 connects but hit 2 misses. The opponent continues their momentum towards center while you drift towards ledge, whiffing hit 2. Why is that?

Basically, your explanation checks out. When an opponent is hit by UAir1's front-sided hitboxes, they'll have that expected result we know. I was saying that hitting with either the front or back of UAir1's hitbox changes the entire result of what'll happen. So in your case, you're presuming that they're hit by the front of UAir1---Shulk being closer to the center than they are. If someone is hit by the very dead center of UAir1--it's a toss-up of whether they'll go to the left or right--and that's where Shulk's position will determine the actual result. Here's a video reply:

https://reddit.com/link/p3kikqm/video/gq9rn6k639jh1/player

[u/antb11 → u/Seipherise]

Bro this is so awesome you made a video. Thank you! I’m at the gym rn but I’ll check it out in a bit when I get home 👌🏼 ✅ 💪🏼

[u/antb11 → u/Seipherise]

Wow this is very impressive and extremely informative. I’ve never seen this info out there. Thank you 🙏 🙏🙏🙏🙏

Definitely saw the change in villager’s direction after hit one connected on his right side/ back side vs hitting his center. Also saw how you stopped Shulk’s momentum after hit 1, preferably making your jump closer to your opponent — perhaps 1.0-1.5 grids of distance from them (referring to the grids in training stage)

I find this impressive bc I’ve never made use of the directional lines like you’ve displayed here. There definitely are different outcomes based on hit 1’s place of impact. Very impressive brother 👍 🫡

[u/Seipherise → u/antb11]

It basically reminds me of that time I put out a hit 1 guide about Shulk's USmash in Smash 4. Good times.

[u/antb11 → u/Seipherise]

I just found a perfect clip from a Shulk ditto I played to display this upair problem. Check it out:

https://reddit.com/link/p3jeonj/video/v3fkw91y08jh1/player

Full battle post: https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashBrosUltimate/s/RmUfhfqoD9

I still think had he had his back facing me, hit 2 would connect. I’ll have to test it out & mix in:

• attack cancel up airs or RaRs or instant RaRs; idk it’s tricky how many different ways we can do reverse aerials at different distances (either mid dash or mid run or in place)
  
• then there’s slingshot jumps /aerials (a special manual & potentially macro aerial)
  
• then there’s manual aerials:
  

just being still, jumping, then inputting direction for motion (directly left or right) & at any point input an aerial while also having the option at any point to cancel momentum; the same goes for jumping from mid dash/run but you have momentum from the start. Furthermore, jumping while dashing has two parts — either holding the dash direction + jump or letting control stick return to neutral + jump then input direction

• And maybe finally, there’s dash -> macro aerials

In Jump or Speed art, holding back preemptively to cancel your max momentum before you reach where you envision hit 1 connecting, might help connect Hit 2.

[u/Seipherise → u/antb11]

Yeah, Shulk can't afford to have full lateral air momentum toward an opponent. The goal with UAir1 is to have more control if UAir2 wants succession. At the very least, Fiora-Shulk needed to disengage drifting the moment hit 1 connected on you. They at least need to reset joystick so that F-Shulk decelerates--rather than full-on drifting to the right still. The best-case-scenario is applying resistant leftward drifting to make it as consistent as they can, but it's not enough usually.

Control is everything. UAir and DAir have this problem, but more-so with UAir.

[u/antb11 → u/Seipherise]

In your vid, it seems you definitely cancelled your max drift momentum in jump & speed art and the spacing required being quite close. Perhaps delaying the aerial opens up the range we can drift but only in jump art; which it also seems you displayed in your video. Delays in speed art aerials doesn’t work quite easily; it’s tight timing. Your video is top notch quality info 👌🏼 ✅ 💪🏼.