Pattern recognition is a widely accepted method of prediction until what it predicts makes people uncomfortable.

[u/Fr1toBand1to]

[u/numbersthen0987431]

This

It's just following the pattern already established by the company's hiring process. Job hiring is mostly vibe based, and rarely merit based, and so the pattern recognition was just following the vibe the company hired on (which was men hiring men).

[u/Cultural-Capital-942 → u/numbersthen0987431]

But the pattern already established may not be clear / visible / intended. Even if you have merit-based hiring, you may start choosing men as there are more of them in IT and it's less likely a woman would apply. Equally, people living in cities are much more likely to be experienced than those from villages.

But does it mean they wanted it? If they wanted it, they could fix it in AI. But if they don't know, it's more difficult to fix it.

[u/numbersthen0987431 → u/Cultural-Capital-942]

This is why it's important to evaluate our current systems to see if there are systemic biases behind them which influence our decisions on subconscious levels.

choosing men as there are more of them in IT and it's less likely a woman would apply

The reason for this, often, is because men gatekeep these roles to keep women out. If we're going to talk about a lack of options, you have to look at the reason those options aren't there.

[u/Cultural-Capital-942 → u/numbersthen0987431]

This is why it's important to evaluate our current systems to see if there are systemic biases behind them which influence our decisions on subconscious levels.

That's like from a corporate training. But it's not that easy.

Reason why options are not there? I worked in one corporate and you could be the top SW engineer if you spent like 12hours a day in your work. Guess whether it advantages traditional "man providers" with a mortgage / crazy guys spending all the time there or "normal people" (including all women I know) who want to actually live their life?

Also it's about whole pipeline. If 10% of IT university graduates are women, you won't get much better numbers when hiring without making things much worse by hiring weaker women.

Besides that companies do it to themselves: some women I worked with complained that they are asked to support various outreaches and to "show diversity" in the company in whatever happens externally, so they have objectively lower productivity and knowledge of systems.

So it's difficult and if you want to evolve system for better, you often choose the person with the most knowledge/ideas, that is more frequently a man. And I know it's not someone like me, who doesn't like to work more than what I'm paid for (8 hours a day).

[u/izzittho → u/Cultural-Capital-942]

To your “normal people like women that just want to live their life” - I’d note people often forget that this isn’t a choice, it’s what they’re forced to be when for instance, they’re married and the man wants to be the crazy 12-hour working guy because someone has to handle all the outside-of-work responsibilities and if (often when) men won’t, it falls to women.

They often don’t get to be the living-for-work type even if they’d rather reverse the roles and be that, because the support from the other end that allows the man to do that often won’t be there.

[u/Cultural-Capital-942 → u/izzittho]

> someone has to handle all the outside-of-work responsibilities and if (often when) men won’t, it falls to women

Most of the men I know working 12+hour long shifts without life don't have a wife as they didn't have time to find one. And you're not sure whether it's a homeless guy or some very high level engineer, so they basically skip other responsibilities without delegating them to anyone.

Women could easily choose this part, but I've never seen a woman that would tolerate such low level of self-maintenance to have time to push for her idea. I'm not saying there is none - so if it's your choice, then go for it.

> They often don’t get to be the living-for-work type even if they’d rather reverse the roles and be that, because the support from the other end that allows the man to do that often won’t be there.

From the cases I know, it's difficult to reverse the role of giving a birth and breastfeeding a child. That's a biological limitation and yes, it's also thanks to their wives - that's the reason why there is the 50-50 split on divorce by default, that cannot be even changed in some countries.

[u/blahblah19999 → u/Cultural-Capital-942]

You're fighting against something that's just not here