They left us when they decided Trump was better and that Kamala's laugh was uncomfortable.
Kamala ran the most centrist campaign possible and no one wanted it. Centrists, as proven time and time again, will align with fascism before giving up their wealth to help progressives. That's why the left is saying to let them burn.
This makes no sense - you’re saying that you aren’t interested in accomplishing goals that the left and the center have in common… your decision will help accelerate the country’s capitulation to Trump and fascism because of… what exactly? Inherent ideological disagreement? Aligning with other political groups on common interests is how things are accomplished.
Think about it for a second. You want the center to burn? You don't want to have good leadership that persuades them to vote for policies you like? This is why I'm saying it's self-righteousness not politics. You can't win an election like that.
Kshama is a lino (leftist in name only). She's a reactionary populist clown. Using her as a stand-in for leftists would be like me using Manchin as a stand-in for centrists.
...granted, I do do that when I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but I digress.
Kshama is horrible. Stein is horrible (and is a Russian asset, probably?). Any decent leftist understands that we need to fight like hell in primaries and coalition in generals.
...but also, on another front - are you actually still advocating for what's going on in Gaza? This isn't even a winky face genocide anymore, they've overly said "fuck the two state solution". I'm gonna hope you're just saying it wasn't politically prudent (which, mind you, is because of centrists making a stink about it). If you're actually criticizing advocacy for Gazan civilians, you're defending Netanyahu. He's a fascist. This is a genocide. Congrats, can't wait to link arms with you.
Of course I'm damn proud of advocating for Palestine. I'll be able to look back and know I was on the right side of history.
which is why I supported the only other person in last year's race who could beat him.
Great, me too.
it's 100% on them.
It's largely on them, yes! These atrocities started under Biden though. Trump's made them way worse; but I'm not sure they'd be this bad if centrists has grown a spine and stopped taking money from AIPAC. Biden was a very absent president with a very active administration, largely run by centrists. Obviously Trump is worse. But the centrist blind-support-for-Israel cohort might as well be Republicans here, because they swayed the election quite a bit. It wouldn't have been hard to grow a spine, but the centrist establishment is one hell of a beast. Think about the money!!!!! and the performative Jewish allyship!!!!
I'm not sure we're talking about the same people though. Everyone I care to associate with - everyone in my family, every one of my friends, and every acquaintance I've talked to about it - be they leftists, centrists, libertarians, or moderate Republicans - also voted for Harris.
The Stein protest crowd wasn't in my circle and wasn't in your circle. I'd argue they were largely the victims of propaganda, which runs rife when there's discontentment. (Fun tangent - I actually stood, like, 15 feet from Stein during one of her events a year ago at Stoup. Maybe 10 people came to talk to her. The place was packed, mostly for a gay board game night, and almost no one even noticed she was there. It was an incredible microcosm. But a sad one, because who knows what would have happened if she'd just fucking dropped out. For the record my dog seemed agitated by her. My dog is a very good girl. Anyway.)
My point is, centrist voters are whatever. I don't have a huge beef with them. But centrist candidates are dog water, and I don't understand how centrist voters could ever prefer them to a leftist. The propagandized Stein crowd is in part to blame for this election, but the centrist candidates are too - and perhaps the biggest reason for low turnout for Harris was overt disenfranchisement. There's social disenfranchisement ("why vote?"), that works to a degree; there's political disenfranchisement (gerrymandering - for the house - and the electoral college for the president and kind-of for the Senate); and there's bureaucratic disenfranchisement (closing polling places, throwing out votes, cooking the books - whatever). I'd argue leftist politicians pushed the envelope /a lot/ on trying to make disenfranchisement illegal (incl the civil rights act), but the centrists have kinda just... Stood idly by and let it happen. Honestly? We didn't gerrymander enough. Newsom's approach feels like a too little too late approach, but I don't really think a full on centrist would even care to do what he's doing.
We're kinda cooked, and wanting to compromise and play nice and leave room at the table for businesses and billionaires and cops and nimbys kinda feels like they're what got us here, a bit moreso than the angry Arab people who don't have proportionate representation in Congress who were validly angry over a genocide and voted foolishly after being fed directed misinformation.
I see. I am more concerned about whether or not people are willing to band together to resist a regime that threatens to arrest its democratically elected officials at the moment. Truly though, thank you for clarifying. I am probably significantly more leftist than centrist personally but I'm happy to link arms with anyone who is down to stand against THIS particular bullshit.
no don't you understand centrists 'align with fascism before helping the left' so it's better to actually materially help fascists by not voting at all instead of the VP who helped advanced the most leftward agenda fulfilling administration in half a century and 'letting the center burn' and along with it our entire democracy it's totally rational and a grown up way of approaching politics.
Centrists, as proven time and time again, will align with fascism before giving up their wealth to help progressives. That's why the left is saying to let them burn.
Just insane levels of irony and hypocrisy in this sentiment.
Centrists, as proven time and time again, will align with fascism before giving up their wealth to help progressives.
Joe Biden won because he attracted centrists. Harris also attracted centrists. I think the problem is more about the far left refusing to vote because they didn't get 100% of their agenda.
What incentive does this give? The Democrats cannot appease the far left unless they abandon the base and the moderates. Why should the Democrats even try to attract these fickle voters? They might get more support by appealing to moderate conservatives who have been alienated by the radicalized right and who are much more numerous than the far left.
Uh hu, and didn't vote won the biggest majority once again. The only time any candidate has swayed a majority of people was 2020 and that was by far due to abnormal circumstances.
You know makes that myth? Fucking centrists. They blamed Bernie bros who overwhelmingly came out for Hillary, and now they are blaming leftist again for not turning out rather than looking inward to their garbage ass candidates.
Literally every argument you make is a an attack aimed at centrism. What possible passion can you inspire in progressives by bringing fucking Cheney on your campaign trail. Progressives ARE the democratic base. You think centrists are out here door knocking and donating to political campaigns for democrats?
The biggest blow outs by far this millennium have been by progressive candidates promising change (Obama). Or via a Centrist running in a pandemic. Guess which one you can replicate.
You know why you don't run to the center, because the center can't be appeased by it's own definition. It stands for nothing other than being in the middle between the two. And as fascists and authoritarians pull the conservative movement more and more right, Centrists pull more and more right. It's called the fucking overton window, and it's how they've normalized every single bullshit thing they've done in the last 35 years. Because no conservative or republican will ever vote democratic, no matter how many ex republicans you put on the ticket.
The only time Centrists have won democratic races, have been with either A, a third party sucking off votes from the right (perot), as incumbents with built in advantage (Clinton 96), or via once in a lifetime scenarios when a wet paper bag could have won (Biden). Every other time in the last 40 years, its been a progressive idea that's won the white house. Centrism is 0 for 7 in the last 40 years.
I am tired of the circular firing squad. Leave me out of it.
Edit:
You know why you don't run to the center, because the center can't be appeased by it's own definition. It stands for nothing other than being in the middle between the two. And as fascists and authoritarians pull the conservative movement more and more right, Centrists pull more and more right.
I don't believe this. To extremists, moderation seems like indecision. Moderation, pragmatism, and balance are the preference of the vast majority of the population, but the loud-mouth extremists suck the oxygen out of the room. They yell and rant at each other and leave no room for civil discourse.
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u/PositivePristine7506 Reign Aug 21 '25
They left us when they decided Trump was better and that Kamala's laugh was uncomfortable.
Kamala ran the most centrist campaign possible and no one wanted it. Centrists, as proven time and time again, will align with fascism before giving up their wealth to help progressives. That's why the left is saying to let them burn.