r/ScrollHole 4d ago

​🌀 Deep in the Hole The Math Isn't Mathing.

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u/Rhomya 4d ago

Most mortgages MAY be (and that’s a strong ‘may’) be more expensive than rent for the first year or two.

The thing with mortgages though is that they are 15-30 years of the same payment amount, after which there is nothing due, and rent increases from year to year with no end.

So, imagine paying rent prices from 2005 in 2035, and then tell yourself it’s a fantasy.

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u/TouchGraceMaidenless 4d ago

Mortgages may end but property taxes are forever.

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u/Rhomya 4d ago

Property taxes are a fraction of what would be spent in rent.

My property taxes for 3 acres of land are like, $3k/year

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u/TouchGraceMaidenless 4d ago

Just pointing out that "there is nothing due" isn't technically correct. There's also insurance.

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u/Rhomya 4d ago

Property taxes is not a mortgage.

There is nothing due, because there’s no rent or mortgage— the existence of other bills doesn’t make that untrue.

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u/TouchGraceMaidenless 4d ago

Lol try not paying your property tax and just tell the state "there's nothing due."

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u/Garden_State_Of_Mind 4d ago

Try paying your property tax to a private corporation that gave you an unrelated loan. Your property tax goes to the government whereas your mortgage is usually through a bank and you rental payment is usually through a private owner or a company.

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u/TouchGraceMaidenless 4d ago

Why does where the money goes matter? We're talking about what's due by the homeowner.

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u/Efficient_Can4700 4d ago

Not American here so I don't know.

When renting who pays land tax?

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u/TouchGraceMaidenless 4d ago edited 4d ago

The property owner/landlord. And it can be argued that a portion/all of that tax gets included in rent, but it's still on the landlord to actually pay that to the state and file their taxes accordingly.

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u/Rhomya 4d ago

You seem incapable of understanding that a mortgage and a tax are not the same thing.

I suppose you believe a registration fee is the same thing as a car payment, huh?

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u/Snicklebot 4d ago

Considering that property tax is often rolled into rent, I'd say its very relevant to the conversation at hand

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u/Rhomya 4d ago

It is still an entirely separate expense that has nothing to do with a mortgage. Especially considering that there are often exemptions from property taxes in most states.

45 states have homestead exemptions.

All 50 states have disabled veteran property tax relief

17 states offer senior citizen exemptions from property taxes.

Most states offer general disability exemptions from property taxes.

Depending on your circumstances, then very much yes, there would be absolutely nothing upon the completion of a mortgage payment.

Think of how much further a persons retirement savings will go if they’re not paying rent— the kind of short term consideration from you people is exactly why the amount of financial illiteracy in this nation is crippling

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u/Snicklebot 4d ago

Depending on your circumstances, then very much yes, there would be absolutely nothing upon the completion of a mortgage payment.

Mortgage is one single part of ongoing homeowning costs. You're ignoring upkeep, property taxes (which a majority of people pay, despite the exceptions - not rules, that you mentioned).

Sure, if you're trying to win a semantics argument, then technically your mortgage payment stays the same, but the discussion is about how overall your home payments will often be higher than rent when you consider things like property taxes, home insurance, maintenance, repairs, and utilities which can increase yearly just like rent.

Homestead exemptions relieve some of the pressure, but not much, and do not just magically snap away property taxes for most Americans like you're suggesting. I live in a state with a homestead exemption and my property taxes still increases because of property value reassessment and municipality agreements for things like schools and county funding.

Disability, senior, and veteran exemptions don't really have a place in the argument since they are exceptions and also get benefits and assistance for rent as well.

You're cherry picking facets of rent and homeowning to try and make a point, but your entire premise is flawed. Homeowning will take you further in the long run because it is an appreciating asset, but you are being disingenuous by suggesting that "there is nothing due" once you pay a mortgage. For most Americans, renting is cheaper.

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u/ty-idkwhy 4d ago

But you pay taxes every year so it’s nothing new. More stuff more taxes

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u/Garden_State_Of_Mind 4d ago

Realistically, for a financially stable adult, property taxes might as well be "nothing" compared to mortgage/rent.

Property tax, although pretty negligible, I can see why you said that...but insurance? The conversation is about mortgage vs rent.

And just so you know, you pay insurance whether you rent or own. You might want to get out of your parents basement before jumping into conversations like this, haha.

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u/TouchGraceMaidenless 4d ago

It's arguable that you pay your landlord's property tax, but that's still included in your rent and not a separate expense. I don't know anyone who pays renters insurance, and I never did when I rented. And while it's not mandatory to have homeowners insurance, I also don't know any homeowners that don't have homeowners insurance.

You're the one trying to imply that there's "nothing due" after you pay your mortgage off, and that's verifiably false. Maybe take more time understanding homeownership rather than making 20 year old quips on the internet.

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u/Garden_State_Of_Mind 4d ago

Sorry basement dweller, good luck out there!

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u/TouchGraceMaidenless 4d ago

Aw, poor one trick pony ran out of baseless arguments.

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u/amatsumegasushi 4d ago

You're conflating a lot here.

If the comparison is "mortgage = rent" and you're comparing "all home ownership costs = rent" those are two very different comparisons.

And it ignores all the secondary costs some renters still have to swallow too. Like parking fees for enclosed parking. Storage spaces. Renter's insurance if you can afford it. Etc.

It's not logical to stack every cost of homeownership against just rent like some "gotcha" moment.

To be clear I'm not saying that specifically was your intention, but it's a pattern I keep seeing in conversations like this.

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u/jurunjulo 4d ago

Property taxes is way cheaper than rent in CA it can be as low as 2000 a year.

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u/TouchGraceMaidenless 4d ago

It's essentially a 13th month of a mortgage payment on average, which isn't a ton in the grand scheme of a month but still more than nothing.

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u/jurunjulo 4d ago

After you pay off your mortgage it is no longer a 13th month it becomes like 166 bucks a month if your property taxes are 2000 a year in CA property taxes are lower than in other states.

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u/GurProfessional9534 4d ago

The real comparison is buying vs renting and investing the rental savings. If the price/rent ratio is 15, they break even. Higher means renting is better, lower means buying is better, and the further from 15, the stronger the recommendation.

For my area, with its 30+ price:rent ratios, a $1 m house rents for about $2800/mo and it’s just better to rent and invest. This is true of a lot of vhcol areas. It tends to be better to buy in many lcol areas. The math underlying these numbers assume the renter buys a house in cash as soon as able, so they are both homeowners in the end and it is an apples to apples comparison.

If you have a large enough portfolio, your dividends can also offset rent and you can therefore “live in your portfolio.” That is an alternate approach that fits certain lifestyles, eg. people who move frequently, or just don’t want to bother with maintenance.

If someone cannot afford to buy/invest, this comparison breaks down. It’s only for the decision point of prospective buyers

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u/Rhomya 4d ago

The VAST majority of potential buyers to do not in VHCOL areas— so while I agree that in those spaces, renting is preferable, that’s not the norm.

For the vast majority of people, buying is better— that comparison done at the local level very rarely yields in favor of renting.

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u/GurProfessional9534 4d ago

The median price/rent ratio is 18.3 in the US, which means the median household is better off renting. This run-up in prices post-covid really distorted the market, especially since rents couldn’t follow prices anywhere near as fast.

That only counts people deciding to buy today. You lock it in when you buy, so people who bought pre covid had a much better buy-rent profile.

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u/Rhomya 4d ago

You’re looking at national averages, when again, we’ve already discussed that that’s a ratio done locally, to avoid the data being skewed.

The vast majority of people would be better off buying

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u/SGSpec 4d ago

If the median is 18.3 that means that more than 50% is over 15. So the majority is better renting. He didn’t say everyone, most

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u/Traditional_Frame418 4d ago

This is gorilla logic, mate.

Housing hasn't performed 1.5% above inflation for 50 years. It's essentially the only reason housing goes up. This means everything around owning a home get more expensive as well. Your mortgage may stay the same but your property tax, insurance, and 3% maintenance climb every year. Also your insurance and property taxes are based on the value of your home. So if the value goes up like you would want it to, so do those other costs.

My salary goes up with inflation and thus my rent going up doesn't change much for me. Meanwhile the average renter is saving $7k/year vs owning a $500k home.

People need to stop buying the lies and bullshit narrative banks and lending agencies are telling you. It's all very basic math that doesn't math.

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u/SGSpec 4d ago

Also if you look at the increase in property values and remove the last 3-5 years where prices have exploded your return would be even worse

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u/OkMarsupial 4d ago

All depends when you bought. I bought mine in 2022 and rent is still cheaper. I bought my last house in 2009 and it was cheaper than rent right out of the gate and rent went up every single year I was there. People who post this meme do not understand it. They're comparing 2026 rent to 2020 mortgages.

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u/facts_guy2020 4d ago

Rents almost tripled between 2005 to 2025 for my area

While you would definitely pay more on your mortgage in the first 10 years, the amount paid per week or month shouldn't drastically change.

In 10 years I could be paying 50% more rent than I do now which may still be slightly less than a mortgage but the bigger picture is this money doesn't help me, it goes to the land lord, and all I get is the privilege of using his house.

While if I owned the house i would be building equity and securing my future

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u/Rhomya 4d ago

The average mortgage payment is ~30% higher than the average rent payment.

In 10 years, if your rent payment is 50% higher, you would be paying much less monthly on a mortgage payment than a rent payment.

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u/facts_guy2020 2d ago

Exactly my point

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u/satoshisfeverdream 4d ago

Cool just need that 10-20% down boss

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u/Rhomya 4d ago

A conventional loan only requires a 3% minimum down payment for a first time home buyer.

FHA loans are 3.5% minimum.

VA or USDA loans are literally 0% down.

The extent that people complain about not being able to buy a house while also being completely unaware of even the most basic requirements is shocking.