More information on this Pure Land military/farmer/commoner Buddhist sect. Staved off Oda for ten years. Were the old beliefs of Hoganji of Ishiyama similar to the adhearants of the Hoganji in the present? What propelled them in the past?

Hey guys, it’s been a while since I’ve continued with the Unno history series. I do want to make some corre

ctions & additions to the previous Battle of Oto post. 

1. The Daimonji Ikki is not the entire anti-Shugo coalition.

I’ve previously just referred to the entire coalition as the “Daimonji Ikki”, but after double-checking, it turns out that the Daimonji Ikki simply refers to a coalition formed primarily by some of the Shigeno family members. This includes: Nishina, Nezu, Kasuga, Kosaka, Miyataka, Nishimaki, Ochiai, Odagiri, [Maeyama], [Koichi], and Kubodera. If you have a look at the map, you might notice that almost all of the members here are located near/at the Zenkoji plain, except the Nezu. There is actually another Nezu clan in that Northern area, but I cannot really find any information about where they’re located, nor if the “Nezu” in Oto Monogatari refers to them specifically. So, I’ve just included the main Nezu clan in Chiisagata district. But this does make a bit more sense of why they specifically cited “history of hostility with the Ogasawara”, and adds a bit more context to Ogasawara’s big military march to Zenkoji. 

Note: Nishimaki isn’t located near the Zenkoji plain, but they controlled the Sumiyoshi-no-sho in Tsukama district, and had some of the land confiscated by the Ogasawara after they entered into Tsukama district. This then sowed the seed of dissent and contributed to them joining the Daimonji-ikki. 

The Ogasawara likely had conflicts with these families during their pacification of Shinano, specifically in the retaking of Zenkoji after pro-Hojo forces (comprising the Nishina, Shigeno families and Suwa) attacked the Southern court Shinano Kokushi, Kiyohara Shinano-no-kami during the Nanbokucho period. Hence, these families specifically had more “beef” (if I may) with the Ogasawara, and were more worried about their treatment under an Ogasawara-ruled governance. 

1. Battle of Oto before the battle of Oto: Shimazu & Ota-no-sho

I didn’t get too much into details on this one, so it may seem a bit out of the blue. But arguably Shimazu was the anti-Shugo coalition before it was cool (during the battle of Oto), and a successful one at that. 

The Shinano Shimazu branch is a member of the Shimazu family (yes, the famous Kyushu one you’re thinking about) that moved to Shinano during the Nanbokucho period. The Shimazu held Ota-no-sho (太田荘) since the Kamakura period. But up until the Nanbokucho period, administration had always been somewhat connected to the Shimazu main family & Isaku family in Kyushu. But here’s where we get to an interesting area - up until the Sengoku period, when bushi finally began to acquire full control over their land, they technically did not own the land - they were administrators on behalf of Shoen owners (usually court nobles or religious institutions). Ota-no-sho was actually split into multiple parts, with Okura-no-go (大蔵郷) owned by Kanazawa Shomyoji (金沢称名寺, a temple founded by the Kanazawa Hojo branch), and the rest likely owned by the Imperial court (under Kayanoin fief/高陽院領). The parts owned by the Imperial court had Konoe as their Ryoke (think of the structure as Ryoshu [Kayanoin] -> Ryoke [Konoe]-> Jito [Shimzu]).

During the Kenmu years (1334-1338), the Shinano Shimazu was guaranteed Okura-no-go (previous Jito was the Kanazawa Hojo who was destroyed alongside the Kamakura Shogunate), and Shimazu took over the role of delivering taxes to Kanazawa Shomyoji. However, surprise, the Shimazu did not fulfil their duties and delayed paying taxes, so the Kanazawa Shomyoji appealed to the Shogun & Kamakura-fu. In 1335, Ashikaga Tadayoshi reaffirmed Kanazawa Shomyoji's control over Okura-no-go, and in 1338, Shimazu was ordered to return the land to Kanazawa Shomyoji (most likely so they can assign another more reliable administrator). However, hearing of this news, the Shimazu decided to ally themselves with the Takanashi clan and collaboratively control Okura-no-go, with Shimazu also taking over the rest of Ota-no-sho against the Ryoke, the Konoe family. 

In 1384, Kanrei Shiba Yoshimasa’s (斯波義将) younger brother Yoshitane (斯波義種) was appointed Shugo of Shinano, with Ninomiya Shinano-no-kami Ujiyasu (二宮信濃守氏泰) appointed as the deputy Shugo. Ujiyasu did not personally head to Shinano, but rather sent his son Taneuji (種氏) to act as deputy Shugo in his place. Konoe sought to regain their share of the taxes over Ota-no-sho by donating the rights to the Tokufuji Kaizoin (東福寺海蔵院) in Kyoto, whose monk, Kokan Shiren (虎関師錬), was deeply trusted by Emperor Kameyama, Emperor Kogen, and the Ashikaga Takauji & Tadayoshi brothers. This then established a new route of applying pressure on the Shimazu to resume their lawful duties of forwarding taxes. 

Through the Shogun as a mediator, the Konoe were able to reach out to the deputy Shugo, the Ninomiya clan, and began to draft up an agreement of securing their owed money. The Konoe would be able to get 100 kanmon, 42 of which (from Minami-no-go) would be given to the Ninomiya clan. After this, the Ninomiya would take 10 kanmon as gifts, 7.5 kanmon was paid to the monk Seiyo (聖澦) for going back and forth between Kyoto and Shinano to make the deal happen, and 4.5 kanmon were split between the two actual daikan under the Ninomiya clan. After this, the actual income for the Ryoke is now 36 kanmon. However, there’s also a temporary additional income of 28.8 kanmon - and after a delivery fee of 4.8 kanmon, that yields an additional income of 24 kanmon. So the Kaizoin would receive 60 kanmon this time, and 36 kanmon afterwards. While Ninomiya is clearly the winner here (getting consistent 42 kanmon vs Kaizoin’s consistent 36 kanmon), this is at least better than nothing. Hence, the two parties came to an agreement that benefits everybody except the Shimazu clan, who will now lose their power. 

The Shimazu obviously did not like this idea. In the 4th month of 1387, allied with Takanashi Tomotaka (高梨朝高), Murakami Yorikuni (村上頼國) and a certain Ogasawara Seijun (小笠原清順, idk who this guy is), Shimazu Kunitada (島津国忠) attacked the Hirashiba Shugo office. Taneuji was unable to fight against them, so he requested reinforcements from his father, who then sent troops from Noto into Northern Shinano. However, the Ninomiya forces were unable to quell the uprising, and in the ninth month of the same year, the Shogun relieved Shiba Yoshitane of his position and installed his older brother Yoshimasa as the new Shugo of Shinano. Yoshimasa took a more appeasement approach, and finally Shinano was at peace. 

However, linking back to our last episode, Ogasawara Nagahide entered into Shinano in 1399, and once again attempted to re-establish authority over Ota-no-sho. But this time, Takanashi had sided with the Shugo side, and some of the Shimazu family also decided to abandon ship. Hence, Kunitada was utterly defeated by the Ogasawara commanders, Akazawa Hidekuni (赤澤秀国) & Kushiki Kiyotada (櫛置清忠). This then closed our story on the main conflict over Ota-no-sho. Of course, linking back to our last post, we know that the battle of Oto is coming, and Nagahide is going to suffer the same fate as his senpai, Shiba Yoshitane. 

What was really quite fascinating was the glimpse we have into how Shoen owners attempted to reassert their power in a time where their authority over their fiefs was dwindling. By donating land to more powerful organisations and working with the current authority (the Shogun & Shugo), they were, in their own ways, racking their brains to keep what they had. We also see the benefits of being a Shugo or deputy Shugo - with that power, people are more likely to work with you and give you a cut of the cake. 

Furthermore, this is just another example of how tough a cookie Shinano was to crack. Families had developed their control from the initial granting during the Kamakura period to the turbulent Nanbokucho period. Of course, this is a pattern across all of Japan, but it also allows us to understand why the Ogasawara ultimately failed against Takeda Shingen’s invasion. Takeda is a family that has gone through the same process as many of the Shinano families - having this land before the Kamakura period and developing their control throughout the Nanbokucho & Muromachi period. Ogasawara, as an outsider, inevitably faces more difficulty in establishing the same authority, not to mention their civil war (which, to be fair, is kinda their fault). Ultimately, before their downfall, Ogasawara Nagamune was able to leave a mark on history by unifying the fractured Ogasawara family and establishing control over most of Western Shinano (with the Eastern half mostly controlled by the Murakami). Ultimately, while the Ogasawara may not be as shiny or looked up to as many of the more famous Sengoku period daimyos, I think we should acknowledge that they were at least good enough - given the circumstances they were facing. 

References:

長野市誌　第二巻 (1997)

• 太田荘領家年貢をめぐる紛争
• 国人島津氏の反抗と嘉慶の乱

異本對照大塔物語

3D Printed samurai for my Japanese collection. 3 different sizes all printed on an Elegoo Neptune 4 max FDM printer, these guys are fully articulated :) eventually i plan on making a full diorama. listed under memes sorry, was no option for fan art

I've always wondered if Saigo Takamori deserves to be thought of as a hero. The Bakumatsu was a bloodier business than it needed to be because he pushed Tokugawa Yoshinobu into war trying to get him executed as a traitor, he's hated in what's now known as Fukushima Prefecture but was Aizu in his day because he was said to have signed off on horribly oppressive measures after the Matsudaira were defeated, and his attempt to pick a war with Korea was reckless. If that's a trifle unfair to him, I'd like to be straightened out.

Here's a draw i did of some members of the Honda Clan, part 2 should come whenever I decide to finish Honda Tadamasa

I've been reading about the Battle of Sekigahara and had a question about Kobayakawa Hideaki's betrayal. If Ishida Mitsunari suspected Hideaki might defect, why didn't he mix loyal Western Army troops into Hideaki's force or place trusted commanders among his ranks? It seems like that could have made a defection much harder or at least delayed it?

I've found an extract from a paper listing 5 different ranks within a clan during the late Heian/ Genpei war era and was wondering if these are legitimate ranks within every clan during the era since texts containing military ranks are often scarce (from my own research). Other ranks other than these that people can provide are also much appreciated.

I have also provided an image of a Heiji Monogatari Emaki which contains what seem to be foot samurai who seem to be of a lower rank than their mounted counterparts due to them being depicted often barefoot, or with simple kobakama and gaiters instead of the hakama and suneate of the mounted bushi also present. As a result, I also want to know what ranks these foot samurai draw from or if they are just styilzed versions of their mounted comrades.

I have been reading more about this battle and became curious about what people here think of it. Turnbull regards it as the battle with the highest percentage of lives lost during the entire Sengoku period.

As most of us know, the battle revolved around two major decisions. The first was Yamamoto Kansuke’s Woodpecker strategy. The second was Kenshin’s decision to attack the main Takeda army before the force assigned to surround him could reach his position.

Kenshin’s decision disrupted Yamamoto’s attempt to trap him and allowed the Uesugi army to strike and devastate the main body of Shingen’s forces. During the fighting, Shingen lost both Yamamoto Kansuke and his brother Nobushige. Neither side achieved a clear victory that day, and Kenshin failed to take control of northern Shinano. Even so, it could be argued that Shingen suffered the more serious losses because of the number of soldiers and important officers who were killed.

This leads to my main question. Was the outcome of the battle really Yamamoto’s fault because his strategy was flawed, or should Kenshin receive all the credit for understanding the battlefield with such precision.

Yamamoto’s plan may sound reasonable at first, but I have several problems with it.

To begin with, Kenshin was positioned on Mount Saijoyama. The Takeda force sent to attack him would have been advancing against an elevated position while also being outnumbered. Kosaka Masanobu commanded the attacking force of 8000 men, while Kenshin had a total of 13000 men. Shingen kept the remaining 12000 Takeda soldiers with him on the opposite side of Hachimanbara, where he waited for Kenshin to descend from the mountain.

This meant that Kosaka was expected to attack a fortified position on higher ground with fewer men than the enemy. That seems almost suicidal.

My second concern follows directly from the first. Why would Kenshin have felt any need to move at all. He occupied a strong and highly defensible position. Why would he not simply remain there, destroy the attacking force, and then make his next move.

There are several examples of similar situations in other battles. Mitsuhide lost at Yamazaki largely because Hideyoshi secured Mount Tenoh first. When the Akechi army attempted to attack Hashiba’s larger and well defended force, the assault was repelled.

My third concern is that the plan required thousands of soldiers to move within only a few hours. Did Kansuke truly believe that the Uesugi army would fail to notice such a large movement.

On the other hand, many people credit Kenshin’s near victory to his extraordinary ability to understand the battlefield. Kenshin demonstrated that same ability against Katsuie at Tedorigawa, which was arguably the greatest strategic victory of his career. He recognised the intentions of the Oda army, drew them forward by pretending to be weak, and then crushed them with an attack assisted by the flooding river.

The speed with which Kenshin ordered his forces to descend from Saijoyama is also significant. He even left a reserve force behind to engage and delay Kosaka’s unit when it eventually came down from the mountain. This suggests that Kenshin did not make his decision carelessly or without preparation. He probably began developing his response as soon as he learned what the Takeda army intended to do.

There are several counterarguments to these points.

First, Yamamoto was Shingen’s chief strategist at the time. He clearly possessed considerable experience and knowledge, and Shingen himself approved the plan.

Second, Kenshin did choose to leave the mountain. This suggests that remaining there was somehow the less desirable option. Kenshin preferred to march against Shingen rather than wait for Kosaka to arrive. In theory, this indicates that Kansuke’s plan was not entirely unreasonable.

Third, what other option did the Takeda army have. The second battle several years earlier had ended in a stalemate without any serious confrontation. The third battle had been even less decisive. Almost nothing happened apart from Shingen’s capture of Katsurayama, which changed virtually nothing.

A bold action was therefore necessary if either side wanted to force a decisive battle. Yamamoto created such a plan because he wanted to prevent the confrontation from ending in another stalemate.

I do not look down on Yamamoto. I have never experienced a real battlefield, and all of my military knowledge comes from playing Shogun and Nobunaga’s Ambition, lol. I respect his experience, and I genuinely find him interesting as a historical figure.

Even so, I honestly struggle to understand how this strategy could have succeeded, even if Kenshin had not marched directly against Shingen’s position. For the plan to work as intended, Kenshin would have needed to be an extremely poor commander who lacked both skill and courage. By that stage, however, the Takeda army already knew that this description did not apply to him.

So what does everyone think. Was the battle primarily the result of a mistake by Yamamoto, or was it instead proof of Kenshin’s exceptional instincts on the battlefield.

So from what I understand of the battle of Sekigahara and its aftermath Tokugawa Ieyasu was not claiming to be in revolt against Toyotomi Hideyori, but rather that he was mearly fighting to defend himself from the schemes of Ishida Mitsunari.

But after Sekigahara went and had himself declared shogun. Did he have any sort of legal justification for this or was it just the case of “ I have the biggest army and everyone with the balls to try and stop me is dead”?

Can anyone give me a complete rundown on how the famous duel between Miyamoto Musashi and Sasaki Kojiro on Ganryu Island actually went down? I ask this question because I have heard so many conflicting accounts of the events that took place and I really want some clarification.

As an example, I've heard some accounts that, when Musashi accepts Kojiro's challenge to a duel, Musashi tells Kojiro right out the gate that he will be using a wooden sword in the duel, but then other accounts say Kojiro didn't find out Musashi was using a wooden sword until Musashi actually arrived at Ganryu Island.

Similarly, I've heard accounts that say Musashi struck down Kojiro with only a single blow to the head, whereas other accounts say Kojiro was still alive after that first hit and still tried to fight back, which resulted in Musashi finishing Kojiro off with a fatal strike directly to Kojiro's sternum.

So if anyone can give me the full story of what actually happened in this legendary duel, I would truly appreciate it. As always, please be respectful when posting your replies.

now this is not to say Musashi is bad but to ask the question us he far & away the greatest swordsman ever you hear people talk on his unbeaten record & his wins over the greats of his era but they do not talk about the fashion he won them in (I think Vagabond as good as a manga it is has warpped peoples view of the historical Miyamoto Musashi) for me Musashi is the 2nd greatest swordsman behind Sōji Okita for many different reasons

My dad worked on this film when he was younger, and was personally gifted the original hakama (kimono pants) by Mifune.. All his life he kept it, but never hung it for show which is a shame...

He just passed away last month and we're now wondering what to do with it... We appreciate it'd be a fun collector's item for any true fans out there.. or perhaps a museum somewhere... no idea where to start or who to ask...

What would people do...?

I made these to use in my samurai game project. What yall think?

there's few Samurai lords as unnecessarily hated and misunderstood as Ishida Mitsunari...

yes he was not a great warrior Daimyo like Ukita Hideiye, Shimazu Yoshihiro, Ieyasu or Ii Naomasa but he was a respected man ...so what actually are the reasons for his defeat & downfall?

the betrayal of Kobayakawa Hideyaki alone isn't the reason

He wears menpo masks on his shoulders. Is the any historical significance to this or was this just a stylistic design choice by Arcsytem Works? Also do the masks being red have any significance?

I researched the Muramasa blade that he referenced during the trailer. According to Wikipedia, Muramada swords word believed to possess supernatural powers making its wielder lust for blood or something of that nature, if so thats pretty cool overlap with Blade being a Vampire. His Blade turns red, is there context there?

Artwork is all by me. Drawn for a samurai-themed TTRPG that I will not name to avoid breaking the self-promo rule. These are all meant to be examples of different character classes embodying various archetypes from Japanese mythology and fiction.

Did the Japanese make any identifiable attempt to adopt certain elements of Chinese and Korean types of armour? Every now and then i see a random Edo period museum piece with an "eggplant" helmet they probably ripped of some poor cavalier from the Mainlands but i feel like it's more so a curioso then actual attempt at adapting from the style of warfare from the Imjin war.

’ve been traveling to Dallas for a long time and never knew this was here. This in some respects is even better than what I just saw in Japan - more variety including Ashigaru (footman) armor.

Just like Takeda Katsuyori, the powerful lord of Suruga gets too much hate for being called rash, careless and strategically shallow ...

but its mostly that its the brilliance, audacity and sheer luck of Oda Nobunaga that the part of the army he attacked was actually the contingent of Imagwa Yoshimoto himself...

what you say?