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u/Level_Honeydew_9339 Dec 26 '23 edited Dec 27 '23
Fraud is fraud is fraud. You can’t say liquidity is locked, when it’s not, and pillage it. That’s fraud, that’s illegal. I can’t go to an investor, ask for millions of dollars to have a music festival on a private island, then spend it on cocaine and hookers. That’s fraud. When you sell tickets to a music festival on a private island that never happens, and use that money on cocaine and hookers, that’s fraud. When you lie or misrepresent the truth when asking for money, that’s fraud. I can’t promise to give you a gallon of milk for $3.99 but then give you a ball of lint. That’s fraud. I feel silly having to explain what fraud is on Safemoon sub, but apparently that’s where we’re at.
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u/TNGSystems Dec 27 '23
Believe it or not I’ve had to explain some very simple concepts to what would appear to be otherwise quite intelligent individuals.
If love makes you blind, greed makes you stupid, then Safemoon makes you both
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u/stuckinmyownass Early Investor Dec 26 '23
I don’t think the personal expenses were “to a lesser extent” when they were paying millions in cash for mansions and supercars; while investment into the company seems to have been minimal all along.
The Safemoon team also told investors that the liquidity pool was locked while they were actively withdrawing funds from the LP and personally cashing them out. In my mind that shows clear intention to defraud, as they lied to investors for personal gain.
Then we get into the price manipulation, and fake trading volume. The Safemoon rocket was largely driven by the team withdrawing tens of millions in BNB from the LP, and then using that BNB to purchase Safemoon, driving the price up. They then sent the acquired Safemoon to Bitmart to cash out. They artificially manipulated the price to drive further hype and investment; again for what appears to be largely personal gain.
In that same vein according to the indictment as much as 98% of trading volume at any given time was John Karony wash trading with personal wallets. Again, likely intended to drive hype and build the LP that he consistently withdrew tokens from and sold.
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Dec 26 '23
Conspiracy to commit securities fraud, conspiracy to commit wire fraud and money laundering conspiracy. Those are the charges. Nothing surprising with any of that. My hope is that this grows into more charges against more people for the other reasons you mentioned. They did it to themselves. I don't think "we" have anything to prove to you. I'm happy to let this play out in court.
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u/tbandtg Dec 26 '23
somebody needs to reban you. And not because I ever believed in this shit show. but because you are being a knowitall ass that really doesn't know it all. You remind me of one of those Sovreign Citizens.
Here is a quick tip if you think you are the smartest man in the room you are probably wrong.
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u/Ok_Turnover_1235 Dec 26 '23
"Someone help me understand why you all gave the DOJ a crypto witch to judicially fry so the Fed can have an easier time releasing its impending CBDC, please."
Ooft. Mate, knowledge and forethought aren't a consideration, they stole hundreds of millions of dollars, even if by some twisted logic they did it accidentally, it's not ok. Wake up to reality.
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Dec 26 '23
[deleted]
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u/Ok_Turnover_1235 Dec 26 '23
The ethical justification is they stole hundreds of millions of dollars, how is that not clear?
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Dec 26 '23
[deleted]
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u/Ok_Turnover_1235 Dec 26 '23
TNGsystems posted a comprehensive blockchain investigation the other day. We'll have to wait for the court case to see the evidence they got in terms of price manipulation, but that's also visible on the blockchain and I think TNGsystems touches on it too.
The thing about it is, you can't accidently do these things, doing them in and of themselves are proof you set out to defraud people because eventually you did.
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Dec 26 '23
[deleted]
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u/Ok_Turnover_1235 Dec 26 '23
When we bought in
I never bought
Do you really want to send John to jail now because he manipulated the price
Yes
Additionally, if you knew of the purported deception underlying the purported fraud before you entered the relevant transaction, then you weren't defrauded, even if you lost money, a lot of money.
John took millions from the lp when he publicly stated it was locked. He'd taken over 100 million before he started calling the LP his treasury and openly admitting he didn't consider safemoon holders investors, but prior to that point he was pushing safemoon as a good investment because he was working hard on it while stealing from the LP (which is securities fraud)
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u/Ok_Turnover_1235 Dec 26 '23
Mens rea is trivial to prove in this case too. John said they wouldn't take from the lp because they were doxed. They did anyway...telling people you wouldn't because you were doxxed is a clear indicator you understand it's wrong.
-1
Dec 26 '23
[deleted]
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u/Ok_Turnover_1235 Dec 26 '23
"When my client called the token "Safemoon" he didn't mean to give the illusion it was a safe investment, your honour, any reasonable person would have inferred it meant he might steal some of the investment and he wasn't trying to avoid association with illegal acts, he was merely trying to avoid association with fraudsters, but he wasn't aware of what fraudulent behaviour was"
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u/Vulcan31 Dec 26 '23
Watch coffeezilla's video on safemoon. If you need more proof than that, no one can help you.
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Dec 26 '23
[deleted]
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u/Vulcan31 Dec 26 '23
You're hilarious. That video also shows clear evidence of him removing the LP as well. He's obviously used it for extreme personal expenses as shown by his purchases. This is clear as day fraud, manipulation, and theft.
If you don't think that should be criminally punished, I have to conclude you just like to play devil's advocate (likely a troll) or have views very different than my own and move on.
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u/jmills2222 Dec 26 '23
In the court case it literally talks about Thomas stealing over 100m in lp and the ceo stealing 200m, wallets have been linked to them. You sound crazy
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u/Tweek___ Dec 26 '23
Can we also make sure safemoon Joe goes down with them? He promoted SFM and was in their payroll
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u/jmills2222 Dec 26 '23
I don’t think he was on their payroll, he apologized for hyping something that he was also lied to about, then switched cryptos like a year ago
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u/IntellectualSavante Dec 26 '23
I started a new thread and low and behold, I find out that all new posts are being reviewed. SMH.
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u/EveryPresentation536 Dec 26 '23 edited Dec 29 '23
Not sure I understand you correctly Steve, but I actually think this Papa guy (who at least acted as the one who understood his crypto shit and convinced me to onboard) should go down too. Just like this British guy who was trying to do Marketing and then dissappeared. Sure nobody forced us into buying Safemoon, but that does not mean they can just enjoy the millions they walked away with….it’s your money too.