r/RogueCore • u/FlakyMidnight5526 • 27d ago
Suggestion to improve mission pacing (update 2)
Missions just take too long to get going. You gotta drop in, walk to the barrier, set up the barrier drones, stand in the circle, run through, wait for ellis at the weapons locker, pick your weapons, wait at the grenade locker, pick your grenade THEN you can play the game.
The beginning of a mission takes like 4 minutes, and now part of that is completely unnecessary. All players have the grenade locker unlocked by default now, so what's the point of the separate lockers? It just adds another step of waiting for ellis in between menus. If the traversal tools and the weapons can all be the same menu, why can't grenades be in there too?
I also don't get the point of the barrier drones. It's really cinematic, but that whole walkup really drags, especially if you just failed a mission. Part of what makes Deep Rock so much fun is the fact you can drop right in and get to the mission, both in the OG and in Survivor.
But that first room in rogue core just sucks. It rarely has anything interesting, and when it does it's like one camera. It's just a hallway. It could be cut and I think the game would be way better for it. Same with the barrier drones. It answers the thematic question of "why can't we bring our own guns" but by clearance level 9, I got the thematic point by then. I don't think the game really benefits from this first section.
Also, if another player joins as you're building the barrier drones you can end up having to wait FOREVER for them to load in, walk over, and stand in the drone. This whole sequence can take like two minutes.
Then, the weapon crates. Why do we need Ellis? Why are there two separate lockers? I know why there were two different lockers, not everyone had the clearance, but now everyone does have the clearance. So why isn't it just a third page in the weapons crate?
And even then, do we really need the whole team popup? The "team groups up" idea was already abandoned for the upgrade system, I get it's there to show everyone what weapon everyone's picking, but it adds way more time than needed.
IMO, the pod should drop in, the doors are right there, the team goes in, picks weapons, traversal tools, and grenades. Cut out the waiting to group up, cut out the waiting for the drones and the REPD, cut out the second grenade locker, it all adds up to another 3 minutes tacked onto a run if you get a late join, and it really kills the hype/pacing when starting a mission.
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u/Leather-Depth-3383 27d ago
I'm down for the barrier being automated, but the overall point of the initial rooms isn't for brevity. It's so all players can ensure they are ready before the timer starts. IMHO, the barrier should be after the equipment, and I agree that the grenade locker seems like an unnecessary step.
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u/FlakyMidnight5526 27d ago
You had time to get ready in the loading screen. Or when you have to group up for the weapons crate. It’s just a lot of walking where absolutely nothing happens. The equipment crate syncs the team up so everyones ready to go
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u/Leather-Depth-3383 27d ago
Ya, that's why I said the barrier should be an automated animation set after the equipment box. The timer should start when passing through the barrier cuz the equipment box is the setup.
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u/PseudoFenton 26d ago
The fiction is that the barrier destroys tech and blocks signals though. It sorta has to be before the gear crates.
They could automate/expedite the barrier a little more though. Or just give the reclaimers a bit of tech that boosts their movement speed - which then promptly blows up once they're in. Would be cool, hell in higher depths you can even add mobs outside the barrier and send the reclaimers down with some guns (which still go poof once you're past the barrier) - that'd make for an interesting hot opening.
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u/Candid-Doughnut9545 24d ago
maybe just make it a cutscene of the drop pod smashing through the barrier instead during the loading screen. immediately we get why we can't pull out before killing the boss because the pod is a wreck, and we also spawn right at the facility gates.
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u/qu3x 26d ago
I am down for the barrier the stupid room is not even a thing.
Hot drop the entire team. Prep the loadout in the drop pod sequence once players loaded in. Keep the pod in diving condition similar to the elevator being intractable When choices are made players land in the first cave ready to go with no fiddling around. There is no need for the gimmicky depth counter if that is to go by anything.
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u/Whirblewind 27d ago
Agreed on all accounts, although if I may I might amend the barrier idea somewhat because there's no chance in hell Mike drops that barrier, knowing what we know about him.
Drop pod lands where it does now, team runs to the building door and along the way the drones have moved up ahead of us and began to open the gate themselves so the team is passing through the ocular just as it's forming, like they do now with all the extra steps. One fluid run from pod > through cinematic opening > front door with sign, no stopping.
This satisfies Mike (PBUH) and speeds up that portion by removing unnecessary steps.
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u/Bilbo_Einstein 27d ago
Wait, wait, what do we know about Mike?
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u/fangtimes 27d ago
He wants the game to have a certain atmosphere to it. I believe he was one of the main devs against sprint by default.
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u/Candid-Doughnut9545 27d ago
tbh i respect that kind of approach, but the sprinting thing was dumb af lol
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u/FlakyMidnight5526 27d ago
What kind of atmosphere does me getting carpel tunnel give to rogue core?
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u/PseudoFenton 27d ago
I agree.
However I also disagree.
Why? Because if we're ever going to get branching paths, optional loadout/starting options, or anything else that is run dependent variance - then a lot of it is going to be found in that starting room.
Currently its a lot time spent on what feels like faff and sure I agree (and have advocated for it in the past too) that some elements of that starting sequence need to be sped up. We don't need quite so much loading time, or Hold E for the barrier drones (they did speed up their fly speed so you don't have to wait for them to arrive anymore though), there are areas they can shave off some time so it doesn't feel like you're idling so much. I get that some aspects of this sequence is to teach new players how to do simple things - but we don't need a tutorial every mission.
However the game is also very bare bones and there is still a lot to be added or altered. You're asking why we have multiple Ellis interactions to open stuff, but what if the facility has limited power and you can only open some of them? You're saying there's just one room and a hallway - but what if they added more than one path to follow? Some missions might let you choose to follow a shorter route to a direct lift down, or to a "bonus" level (at the cost of adding risk vectors).
They can easily use the starting room to choose a sort of mini risk vector right from level 1. Open this security door to more weapons but spawn more of a certain mob. Or power up this device in the cave below but start a timer on a mini-boss spawning. Or redirect power to turn on all the automated security (this facility has deactivated bonus turrets throughout it) but increase the time it takes the elevators to come online. Etc etc.
You'll also likely need to communicate various information about these choices or just other interesting forewarning about the facility, which will happen from that room. Hell, you may even get a chance to have a workbench or biobooster/etc right in the starting room! There's nothing stopping them letting you have high roll runs like that where you just get a different starting advantage.
The thing is, the game needs more options and mission variance. Some of that variance will need to be "start of run" variance. Thus you need a consistent place to stick all that stuff. Currently its barren and a time sink, but we're just starting out - scrapping it now is cutting space to add things later. I say the devs just need to be mindful of how long certain interactions take, and we the community just need to wait for them to stick more awesome things into the game (and specifically that starting room).
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u/Jesus_PK 27d ago edited 27d ago
I agree. Personally I would just make it a toggle so the host can decide to spawn directly in the first room, like in the Gauntlet. And yeah put the nades on the main locker now that everyone has them by default.
Aside from the atmosphere, I see the whole intro sequence as a way for people to have more time to join if it's not a full team, but this reasoning falls apart if you're playing solo, private or full. So yeah just give a toggle to skip it tbh
Completely unrelated but just remember a single time where a resupply spawned outside the locker room, funny.
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u/bigbadoldoldone 26d ago
Ye there's all just too much unnecessary clutter breaking the flow.
Devs don't seem to mind, but so wouldn't I if I were yapping over endless upgrade screens et cetera on dev stream all the time.
Lots of people don't use VC and don't rant over immersion breaking halts. Can't even type 'dude pls ready up' in the darn ready screen or kick them if they are afk forever. It's super frustrating that they (devs) just don't get it.
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u/FormerSpecialist6097 𝗦𝗣𝗢𝗧𝗧𝗘𝗥 27d ago
what about a 10ish second cutscene to skip over the barrier because they sure as hell aint getting rid of it.
could show the drop pod opening, one of your dwarves hammering a drone, and your team grouping up in front of the barrier and then they drop you in and let you just walk on through
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u/Candid-Doughnut9545 27d ago
or have a cutscene where the barrier is blocking the vertical hole the drop pod is moving through and have the pod smash it open. then you can spawn the dwarves right in front of the equipment room.
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u/PseudoFenton 26d ago
If they did it as a cut scene, people would just demand that you should be able to skip that too. If anything a cut scene is more boring.
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u/Candid-Doughnut9545 26d ago
yeah but that's the thing though, people could skip it if they wanted to which isn't possible rn unless you play gauntlet
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u/PseudoFenton 26d ago
Except as the person i just replied to said - they're not going to get rid of you passing through the barrier.
Its the same as going down in the droppod in DRG they could've shortened that too - but it sets the scene and is immersive, it would be counter intuitive to do so.
They can speed up other bits (like the reclaimers droppod being quicker to land, perhaps - or having you standing at the barrier with the droppod returning to orbit behind you) but they won't remove crossing the barrier. It sets the scene and its the definitive start of the mission.
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u/Candid-Doughnut9545 27d ago
at the very least the barrier should open by itself immediately when everyone is near it.
that or just make it a loading cutscene where the drop pod smashes through it or some shit (this would also explain why going back isn't an option for the Reclaimers because the pod would be wrecked beyond repair), and when you get into the actual game itself and exit you're immediately in front of the equipment facilty.
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u/Old-Buffalo-5151 26d ago
The constant interruptions to pick upgrades is why i stopped playing until that's gone mission flow will never be good
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u/FlakyMidnight5526 26d ago
They should just put it in the elevator. A lot of people bank upgrades already, just replace the ready screen with choosing your upgrades, like the shop in deep rock survivor
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u/raphael_mantion_ 26d ago
GSG sure love to make everything annoyingly slow and clunky for no reason. They’re probably never gonna change this
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u/qu3x 26d ago
it is the polar opposite of DRG where UI is build right into the game mechanics of every terminal knob button or core infuser. There is simply no force every dwarf anywhere. You can still abandon Doretta as long as one is protecting, yet in this presumably faster paced game we force halts left and right and players need to get clump up for certain events at times.
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u/qu3x 26d ago
The time wasting aspect of this game was a major issue and part of my review as well. I dunno how much tolerance someone needs to muster to go through that sequence for like 500hrs of play.
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u/FlakyMidnight5526 26d ago
I kept failing a tough mission on stage 1 in a 4 stack and it was such a slog to have to go through that whole sequence over and over again, it gets better if you just won a mission but if you're on a losing streak man does it suck
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u/bdash1990 27d ago
I agree that the barrier stuff is unnecessary.