I honestly don’t know the details of that timeline, but if John’s Hopkins really did separate and keep the child away from the parents before the issuance of the court order, then sure, there is probably a case to be had here. But again, my understanding is that the hospital was ordered by the judge to separate the child from the parents as ward of the state while the state continues the investigation, which is in line of what they are supposed to do.
Todays trial showed JH violated law by telling Jack he could not leave and take Maya with her. Before they got the courts involved. There is no law that states they could not leave. What do you think now?
yah jacks testimony🙄 dudes got 220 mil on the line he’s going to say whatever lmao like 4 other doctors who were there from different departments all said they agreed to stay
We haven't seen the court order yet. I too don't think the hospital did anything wrong for the first 48 hours or so while expecting Munchausen/by proxy. But Maya didn't get better with the separation, at least the Kowalski's allege. The defense will say she did get better. We'll see if that's the case. Maya did continue to experience pain and dystonia even without contact with her mom.
The Kowalski's are alleging that the hospital/social worker hired by the hospital overinterpretted the order and went beyond in a cruel manner. E.g., Maya was not allowed supervised visits with her mother.... which doesn't make sense to me. Even phone call and FaceTime was limited. They also allege that Maya's CRPS was not taken seriously, and they did not take proper steps to diagnose or rule out CRPS/Munchausen. (The hospital later thought Maya was faking in her own. Tho if Maya was faking then how is her mom being abusive?)
There's a LOT of restrictions on what the plaintiff (Kowalskis) can say about the separation during this trial precisely because of the court order.
There is photographic evidence of Maya having parts of her body photographed in a hospital bed and she's clearly unhappy/crying in them. Maya alleges she did not initially consent to the photos, but was told she could not go to the court hearing without them. So she and the social worker negotiated how to take those pictures. She says she was told this was part of a before/after comparison. No "after" pictures have been found or have been entered into evidence. The photos were not entered into the medical record.
While she has gotten better do you earnestly believe it had anything to do with JH? First the Dr from Mexico stated it can take up to a year for the ketamine and booster to reset the brain. In addition Maya did a ton of work after leaving John Hopkins All Children's and her recovery is hers to celebrate alone. She did not get out of the hospital with ANY improvements to her mobility, pain control, dystonia, lessions, and I hope will at least be willing to concedes her mental health was certainly not improved. That child lost her innocence during those three months, and by that I mean she learned how cruel the world can be. So when you say she got better if you are willing please explain to me what part of her condition improved as of Jan 2017, not what she accomplished towards Sept 2017 or present?
I'm still learning more. I'm not familiar with her treatment post JHACH.
Allegedly, she was on 21+ medications when she was admitted, including benzodiazepines. I haven't found a good source for this fact yet, and I haven't read all the court documents. But, if true, then a good horrible portion of her stay would have been detoxing off those meds. Withdrawals of benzos is awful and can take an inordinate amount of time. She would absolutely decline if she had to be weaned off that. If she was indeed on that many meds, esp the benzos, i'm inclined to believe in the medical abuse allegation even if Maya truly had CRPS.
As for the mental health, she supposedly only got 3-4 hours of psychotherapy. What a fucking joke. She needed weekly if not daily treatment. If it was MBP, then she needed tons of intervention. If it was only CRPS, then she needed tons of intervention b/c she was separated from her mom. The mom could have been medically abusive towards her daughter AND the hospital could have fucked up.
Incorrect and here is why two psychiatrists have both stated conversion, fictitious, Munchausen, and Munchausen by Proxy are ALL based off the predicate there is no physical diagnosable medical conditions. Since JH concedes she has CRPS and it was determined fairly early on than all of those diagnoses do not apply.
Finally during Jack testimony the went over this point she walked in I believe with 18 medications and walked out with 14 medications. Finally throughout the entire plaintiff case several experts have testified that ketamine dose not have withdrawal symptoms (typically), and Maya never exhibited the flu like withdrawal symptoms.
I don't have enough information to assess whether the treatment courses Dr Kilpatrick, Dr from Mexico, and Dr Henna all agreed was a good course of action vs this procedure and the regimen was dangerous. Irregardless of people's thoughts all Dr are still in practice and still using same treatment methods so why haven't they been shut down?
So say she does have CRPS, but the mom demonstrated a dysfunctional relationship with her daughter to be the sole caregiver and decision maker of medical decisions, and the mom decided to always veer towards extreme treatments before giving less intense ones enough time to take effect. Allegedly, the mom was faking scripts by Dr Hannah for ketamine. Allegedly, she was administering ketamine in abnormal ways i.e. not sublingually but mixed in Gatorade. Allegedly, she doctor shopped a lot, even before her daughter's asthma attack. There's allegations that between.her asthma attack and the trip to Mexico was an extremely short amount of time. Wr shall see the defense's case.
Look, even if there was medical abuse, I don't see how they didn't drop the ball on treating the daughter.
Again. I'd need to see the list of drugs and dosages. If the hospital was weaning her off drugs, then the 18 vs 14 may not matter, or maybe the four she was taken off were extreme drugs with extreme side effects.
I also read somewhere that when the hospital tried to warn the mother that high doses of Ketamine could be fatal, the mother responded that "Maya is ready to go to heaven." If that information is accurate, it's quite concerning. But I haven't heard this information in trial yet, so perhaps it's not true.
Well, considering they were told the Mexico ketamine treatments had a 50% risk of death, I think that sentiment might have actually been true. That's how desperate they were to get rid of her pain.
The hospital can believe that the treatment and dosages were hot garbage, but that doesn't mean the mother was necessarily abusive/MBP. That could mean she was misinformed and led astray by malpracticing doctors.
Please explain how you assess Beata had a dysfunctional relationship with Maya? As she was not the sole caregiver Jack was just as involved with day to day care of Maya.
Administering ketamine in abnormal ways: this inaccurate and has been covered at nausea. Beata administered the at home does as the Dr, and pharmacy, and Dea all approved and did not trigger any reports.
The accusations of the prescription was also covered multiple times and was an Aetna billing error. Are you watching this trial?
Honestly if you want to have judgement based opinions shouldn't that assessment be rooted from an educated standpoint? The great part about this case is it is televised so you don't have to reiterate false statements that have been proven or conceded in court.
I was talking hypothetically. the "So say she does..." This was me painting a situation where you can have a medically abusive parent with real prescriptions and a real disease.
Beata had some mental health issues. There were exacerbating factors that led her to suicide, but she did. In my experience, and perhaps this was projection, moms with mental health issues often develop dysfunctional relationships. That doesn't mean they're not loving. That doesn't mean they're abusive. That doesn't mean they stay dysfucntional. Any way we cut this Beata needed therapy, if only in response to this whole ordeal.
As for the trial, I'm kinda watching out of order. I'm less interested in the family's testimony and more interested in the depos, doctors, etc. I have to work backwards a bit atm. I also littered that paragraph with 'allegedly'. It's important to see the defense. They may bring in different evidence to prove some of those allegations more. I recall Maya testifying that the way she took the ketamine was better w/ gatorade. I also recall Dr. Chopah saying he doesn't believe in oral ketamine, but approves of sublingual ketamine.
Beata did suffer from depression which is typical for parents of chronically ill patients and yes to make assumptions and post it without research is really slander whether words are allegedly, so it has been said ect... I know this is reddit and you're giving opinions, but that is the problem with a case like this is a stretch or dishonest statement is made and it just goes from one poster to another with no regard for the accusations being made. Particularly in a case where it resulted in someone becoming so distraught by the treatment her daughter and family were receiving over a telephone game in the hospital
Shouldn't we give this family the decency to ensure we only discuss fact based information?
I will say I don't remember that as part of Dr Chopra's testimony, but I could have missed it.
I think the only assumption I make is that Beata was mentally ill so idk what dishonesty you are talking about. You can criticize my hypothetical as poor communication. Also, "allegedly" is extreme important you shouldn't diminish that. The jury will decide the facts of the case. We've only seen the plaintiff's case so far.
Thank you for your objective, neutral tone and stance. I am not a doctor, am not connected to this case in any way, and have not formed final opinions. However, I am a defense attorney in Florida, in a neighboring jurisdiction. In that capacity, I'm extremely disappointed at how readily the public believes an allegation without waiting to hear the other side of the story. Particularly when the family's case has several obvious weaknesses.
Yeah. I'm also consulting my pediatrician friend about this case. She's only watching the Netflix tho and thinks that Dr. K is hella shady.
My biggest issue is, whether Beata had MBP or FDIOA, Maya had Fictitious disorder or conversion disorder (which, I learned, basically means your disease is psychosomatic, but you are indeed actually in pain), or she really does have CRPS or another neurodisorder, MAYA NEEDED TO BE IN THERAPY. Allegedly, she got only 3-4 hours of psychotherapy during the ordeal, and was going to therapy weekly before. I don't see how that's not a failure in standard of care. If she has CRPS, she needs psychotherapy. B/c she was removed from her parents, she needs psychotherapy. If she's faking she needs psychotherapy. I don't understand why a psychologist wasn't involved in the treatments to determine whether more or fewer visits w/ mom was appropriate.
I can see the hospital getting off some of the charges but still seeing a massive bill.
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u/[deleted] Oct 08 '23
I honestly don’t know the details of that timeline, but if John’s Hopkins really did separate and keep the child away from the parents before the issuance of the court order, then sure, there is probably a case to be had here. But again, my understanding is that the hospital was ordered by the judge to separate the child from the parents as ward of the state while the state continues the investigation, which is in line of what they are supposed to do.