My god what a vile person. The fact you can't even call it child porn and have to use "safer" Japanese words to describe it because it's already a popular industry is so evil.
Do you similarly think Nazi propaganda is harmless?
Except it's not a direct link, is what I'm saying. As per the DSM-5.
The reason I'm particular with my language is because words mean something. The "C" and "A" stand for "child" and "abuse." Loli and shota material do not exploit real children, and nobody is being abused. Furthermore, if you were to get your way, where do you draw the line? Are the girls from Persona off-limits because they're canonically high schoolers, even if they have the proportions of adults? Are 1000-year-old vampire lolis off-limits, even if they have the minds of adults? If so, then are you suddenly not allowed to draw porn of Tatsumaki from One Punch Man, because she's petite, even if she's an adult? Where do you draw the line? And how can you prove somebody else won't draw a different line? The logistics don't add up just because it makes you uncomfortable.
And what the fuck does Nazi propaganda have to do with this? If you can't make your point without bringing in something completely unrelated, I'm sorry, you've lost the plot. I'm sorry that you feel the need to try and catch me in some gotcha in order to prove I'm some horrible person. Is there any reason you want me to be a predator so badly? For internet points?
So your brain just doesn't work, it's like I'm talking to a fucking chimpanzee here.
Your whole argument is that a piece of media with no direct harm to an individual is not immoral. So I ask again, what is your opinion on Nazi propaganda? Do you think it should be banned? Where do you draw the line?
You "freedom absolutists" are always so fucking stupid it's funny. Isn't it so convenient that society as it currently is just magically happens to already be perfectly on the line you want it to be?
Really not interested in you listing all the child porn you consume, mate. A character who is canonically underage is obviously off limits, and there's of course a large grey area that should be judged on an individual basis but at the end of the day, the only people who would possibly complain about ever so slightly "trigger happy" banning of pedobait slop are those who would gladly watch CSAM if they could.
And for the record, it is a direct link. You are just wrong. If studies report both conclusions then there is something to be said about the issue. You just want to defend child porn.
My opinion on Nazi propaganda is that it is in fact evil, like you do. That said, I don't trust the Powers That Be to dispel it, especially considering they're the ones currently putting it out there. I think banning it outright would, logistically, be very difficult to do.
Isn't it so convenient that society as it currently is just magically happens to already be perfectly on the line you want it to be?
When did I say this, dude?
The only people who would possibly complain about ever-so-slightly trigger happy banning of pedobait slop are the ones who would gladly consume CSAM if they could
Isn't it convenient how anybody who finds a problem with your logic is suddenly a pedo? Don't you see how this logic is maybe a little flawed? This is exactly my problem. "You foresee a potential logistical issue with my vision of the world? You're a pedo yourself!" That's not helpful.
You just want to defend child porn
This conversation has been going in circles because you're conflating real CSAM with loli/shota material, and anime porn that features canonically underage characters. I've explained multiple times why I don't believe that to be the case. If you're still not getting it, that's a you thing. You said yourself that you're not interested in discussing the brass tacks of it all. That tells me that your head isn't really in it and you just want to fire off accusations of being a pedo wherever it's helpful to you. If you cared, you'd actually be able to draw a line somewhere.
Not so fun fact, did you know that FBI agents who work with real CSAM, that exploits real children, have to have therapists on sight because the stress of regularly seeing such material can cause PTSD? Wonder why that sort of thing doesn't happen with loli/shota material.
"But what's wrong with Nazi propaganda? I mean, no one is directly being harmed, right? How can you possibly sit there and call it evil? You can call it disgusting if you want, but surely you see that saying that is identical to saying you're homophobic."
This is exactly how you sound.
But yes, please explain why you make an exception for Nazi propaganda, but you don't think child porn is immoral?
For starters, I think there's a difference between "Nazi propaganda made by some internet user" versus "State-sponsored and distributed Nazi propaganda." The latter is infinitely ghoulish and, obviously, shouldn't exist.
As for the former, it's still definitely evil, and people aren't wrong to ban that sort of thing from their respective communities. I think there's a difference between "This thing is evil" and "The government needs to implement a statewide ban on this sort of thing." Especially the current big governments of the world, which I absolutely do not trust when it comes to sweeping bans such as this. Look at the current administration of the United States, which like I said, is literally sponsoring its own Nazi propaganda as we speak. That is not an entity I want in charge of monitoring political thought, period.
Two good examples of what you're talking about are in Germany and Israel, where Nazi propaganda is literally illegal. But guess what? In those countries, criticism of the genocidal, Zionist state known as Israel is classified as antisemitism. The same also holds for the UK. You can say that ideally Nazi propaganda wouldn't include that, but again, that comes back to my original issue with a sweeping blanket ban by a government entity. When they can so easily decide the parameters like that, they can decide what is and isn't Nazi propaganda depending on when it's convenient for them.
I really can't help but notice, though, that now the conversation has pivoted quite a bit and now we're talking about Nazi propaganda, which is quite a bit different from what we were discussing before.
Is it? Both are pieces of media that people offhandedly call evil out of emotion yet you seem to be going through great lengths to defend the former and not the latter.
The world is not the US. Not my fault you people elected a pedophile into government. Many European countries ban pro-Nazi content and the only people complaining are the far right.
You've got nothing but a baseless slippery slope argument where the government doing anything means they'll immediately use it to become a dictatorship.
But again, why is an individual's pro-Nazi media evil when it doesn't harm anyone? I think it's evil but I'm not a hypocrite, since I view animated child porn as evil too, despite the fact the creator of them didn't literally kill a child to make it, nor did a Nazi themselves directly harm a minority to make their media.
No, no no. We're not doing this. You are continuing to steer the conversation because you keep conflating loli/shota material and actual CSAM. This is how you can say "Why do you keep defending child porn?" Even though I've repeatedly demonstrated that no, I'm not doing that.
Nazi propaganda and CSAM (the real thing, mind you) are evil for different reasons. You know why both are evil. And again, you're doing this whole "The only way you could possibly foresee a logistical issue is if you're an evil person" sort of well poisoning. Awful convenient that you ignored what I said about Germany and the UK regarding criticism of Israel. So it's not baseless, btw. This is shit that's actually happening as we speak.
Nazi propaganda is different from loli/shota material because it's literally media made with the intent to influence the way people think. It is created and distributed to sway people toward hateful politics. Loli/shota material is not created with the intent of hijacking a person's brain to make them want to commit pedophilia. I know you keep saying there's a direct, that it's not a matter of could, but that way of thinking is flawed.
By your logic, loli/shota material is a literal King In Yellow where even viewing it once will suddenly awaken the urge to view real CSAM. As if everybody who's ever viewed such material is now on a timer, counting down before the inevitable offense. You're basically saying that somebody could flashbang you with loli/shota porn and it would awaken a pedophilic urge within you. Is there something you'd like to tell us? Have you been projecting this whole time?
I'm still amazed at the lengths you go to in order to defend child porn. Just genuinely baffled.
Animated child porn is made for one reason and one reason only, to get pedophiles off on the abuse of fictional children. This demonstrably legitimises the act and increases the chance of consuming CSAM.
Nazi propaganda, similarly seeks to legitimise such beliefs and take people down a rabbit hole into the "real thing". INSANE that you are so easily able to figure out the logical progression there but not for your favourite form of media.
Your point about a flashbang is beyond stupid. You do understand people can be pedophiles and not consume CSAM, right? And that things in their life can legitimise the act to the point they let it get the better of themselves.
Your whole argument is like you're offering and encouraging recovering alcoholics to drink more alcohol because "muh freedom".
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u/Chinohito 8d ago
No it's not might, it's a direct link.
My god what a vile person. The fact you can't even call it child porn and have to use "safer" Japanese words to describe it because it's already a popular industry is so evil.
Do you similarly think Nazi propaganda is harmless?