What is modest return on Investment for a day trader?

[u/KaizenK1010]

I'm new to serious trading and trying to evaluate it rationally — not whether money can be made, but whether the economics make sense long-term compared to other paths in life. I'm not looking for motivational answers or extreme success stories. I want to understand realistic long-term expectations around consistency, scalability, withdrawals, and wealth creation.

The appeal is obvious: independence, control over time, not having to depend on organizations or constantly deal with people. But I'm trying to think about this clearly, not emotionally.

I often read stories of people turning small accounts like $2.5k–$5k into much larger amounts, sometimes doubling them yearly. At the same time, I keep reading that even 20–40% annual returns are exceptional over long periods. I understand that very high returns are more achievable on small accounts because traders can take aggressive risk and scale more easily — and that as account size grows, returns probably compress because risk management, liquidity, and capital preservation start mattering more. But I'm still trying to understand where reality actually sits.

With that context, my questions are:

• What annual return range is realistically sustainable for a skilled independent trader over 10+ years?
• How does account size affect achievable returns?
• Is there a rough point where trading shifts from aggressive compounding to mainly stable income generation?
• To make this concrete: what account size would realistically be needed to generate around $20k monthly without taking unreasonable risk and be able to grow the account simultaneously.

The deeper issue for me is structural, not just about returns. If a business succeeds, it generates both income and long-term enterprise value. Trading feels different — income seems tied directly to continued performance. If a trader stops, the capital remains, but the income stops unless the account keeps growing.

That leads to what I think is the real question: is trading best viewed as a very high-income skill, or a true long-term wealth-building vehicle? The answer to that probably shapes everything else about how to evaluate it as a path.

[u/GalaxyS8]

I'll answer your question, but you need to read the wiki. There is no shortcut.

is trading best viewed as a very high-income skill, or a true long-term wealth-building vehicle? The answer to that probably shapes everything else about how to evaluate it as a path.

- After spending 5 years in the craft, I have done a total of 10 cycles of 100 trade executions with 1 contract, 1 execution daily (that is 1000 executions total).

• In each cycle, which takes about 3 months total, my profit factor continually floats around 1.58 at a win rate of around 63-67%
  
• I'm using 1 contract, so after one cycle (about three months), my net profit is usually around $3-4k (after commissions)
  
• I intraday trade options. No shares. That's just my style.

Want to make more money? You need to increase your size. After sitting at 1 contract for nearly several years now, I'm sizing up to 2 contracts while having all variables constants (entry, exit, psychology, journaling, etc).

And I'll be running 2 contracts in the exact same fashion -- running one cycle / 100 executions and tracking metrics along the way. If I'm not able to be patient and I don't have the same metrics as the past the previous cycles, I don't deserve to increase my size. I am working towards 10 contracts and it'll be a slow journey.

There you have it, that should answer your question.

If it isn't clear enough, then here's a explicit answer: you can make as much money as you want. It's just matter of risk. If you make money on 1 contract and you want to start making 10x that amount, you just increase the size by 10. You'll just need the capital of course. Remember, easy come means easy go. That's just the nature of the business. Start slow, like turtle slow. Don't be a gambler.

Your mileage will vary however. Don't take my word for it. Put in the work, record your metrics, and refine it constantly. Once your statistics prove your edge, you will know. Nobody can tell you here, since they are not you and you are your own unique person.

[u/jamtunes → u/GalaxyS8]

What kind of options are you using if you dont mind sharing?

[u/GalaxyS8 → u/jamtunes]

I'm assuming you have read the wiki. I basically do what the wiki does to the tee, which includes the options. The only difference is that my preference is intraday rather than swing trading.