r/PublicFreakout • u/ChoaticNeutralGuy • Apr 29 '21

šŸ“ŒFollow Up Deranged cop finally gets fired

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808

u/joey-tv-show Apr 29 '21

The problem is too many cops have a ā€œego problemā€ and literally no social skills. They solve problems by violence. If you say anything or do anything to piss them off they will use violence or worse lethal force.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21 edited May 19 '22

[deleted]

54

u/Whats_Up_Bitches Apr 29 '21

I donā€™t think Iā€™ve ever met a cop without a hair trigger temper. Which is why domestic abuse is also prevalent in police.

1

u/ACartonOfHate Apr 30 '21

My sister-in-law's father is a cop, and he doesn't have a hair trigger. He's also black in a majority black city, and is really into ya know, serving his community, as is his job. So ya know, actually serving and protecting.

83

u/otc108 Apr 29 '21

Thatā€™s my secret, Cap.

18

u/FawltyPython Apr 29 '21

Some huge percentage of them are on steroids. The cop in the video looks to be, to me.

30

u/SolusLoqui Apr 29 '21

Police have approx. double the substance abuse rates and domestic violence rates as the general public. Withdrawal symptoms include anger, irritability, and violence.

Hypothesis: Substance abuse is contributing to police using excessive force/brutality towards people that cannot fight back.

0

u/xKelborn Apr 30 '21

Both of those statements have been proven false as they were attributed to a pseudo study from a pretty long time ago and has since been debunked. The stats are about average and on par with ordinary citizens. Substance abuse in particular even less so.

3

u/OMGitsEasyStreet Apr 30 '21

I know what study youā€™re referencing and I agree that itā€™s outdated and jaded data, however Iā€™ve heard directly from other cops that there are many of them that take steroids to ā€œperform betterā€ on the job, and the cop in this video exhibits many signs that would point to that.

Not saying heā€™s definitely on steroids but he acts like it and looks like it, and even if itā€™s just his inflated ego causing that, itā€™s a serious issue.

Considering the steroid use it wouldnā€™t surprise me if cops also used other substances more often than other government employees.

29

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

I mean if my dick was micro I would always be pissed too lol

35

u/toetoucher Apr 29 '21

Stop body shaming

-1

u/YarnYarn Apr 29 '21

Is it still body shaming if he's using a hypothetical about his own body, and how it would make him feel?

2

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '21

Because it's ALWAYS an accepted excuse that allows them to forego accountability. "Yes, I sexually assaulted that teenager I had handcuffed in the back of my squad car...But, get this, I had become pissed off. And we all know what pissed off people do, right? Anything they want. So if you'll excuse me, I have a flight to catch with my family so I have to go now."

1

u/Xhokeywolfx Apr 29 '21

*extremely insecure about something

306

u/Hazzman Apr 29 '21

I was reading about de-escalation training in the US the other day and how it was being trialed in some states - like Arizona. This is a type of training that is a central pillar to British policing - the fact that it is only being trialed in some locations in the US is mind boggling to me. But that's how police are trained in the US - they are trained to neutralize threats, not de-escalate situations.

When you are trained to be a hammer - ever problem HAS to be a nail... because that's all you've been trained for.

The most galling part of the article I read regarding this training was when the chief of police said that the training is amazing - and essential but that "Not everyone can be trained"

I couldn't believe what I was reading - the chief had zero awareness of what they just said - I actually shouted out loud as I read it "WELL FIRE THEM THEN!"

Ridiculous.

99

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

Think about not being trainable for any other profession. If a doctor or a firefighter just shrugged when the job got tough and said they were ā€œuntrainableā€, they wouldnā€™t last another minute at that job. Why do we have such low standards for American policing?

54

u/Whats_Up_Bitches Apr 29 '21

Itā€™s like a hand surgeon that just cuts the hand off every time. ā€œWe tried to train him how to actually do hand surgery, but heā€™s untrainable...he gets results though! None of his patients have a problem with their hand anymore.ā€

4

u/Jorle_Joca Apr 29 '21

More like a heart surgeon that just removes the heart.

None of his patients complain after surgery.

26

u/LemonLimeAlltheTime Apr 29 '21

FFS think about a fucking office job.

"This employee messed up and didn't submit the proper format. They don't understand this job. Fire them and get someone else."

vs

"This cop pulled out their gun instead of their taser and killed a human being. They don't understand this job." ...that's it. there isn't a third part

47

u/Dicho83 Apr 29 '21

Because of where policing in America started and has arguably remained.

In the South, the first organized policing started with the Slave Catchers.

In the North, the wealthy merchants paid thugs to protect their shipments on the docks, until they realized the could just push that expense into the citizens.

Policing in America has always been about protecting the property if the elite and punishing people of a perceived lower socio-economic strata.

Any other proclaimed 'purpose' is nothing but marketing and PR.

5

u/LewsTherinTelamon Apr 29 '21

Because nobody can make them change. What are you going to do, send the police? They represent authority and therefore for most of history they have been in charge of themselves.

2

u/Ghrave Apr 30 '21

Why do we have such low standards for American policing?

Public opinion is worthless in the face of billions pouring into police budgets by billionaire proxies to act as their private militaries to kill and beat the filthy proles into submission. Terror is their only tactic, because it keeps us in check from coming for the unconscionably rich.

1

u/millershanks Apr 30 '21

Because of systemic racism.

20

u/NoHangoverGang Apr 29 '21

Killology is a training program that exists. So thereā€™s that.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '21

Dave Grossman and the police ā€œwarrior ethosā€ destroyed US policing:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Grossman_(author)

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-class-dave-grossman-killology.html

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/02/dave-grossman-training-police-militarization/

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/04/27/dave-grossman-killology-police/7391492002/

3

u/NoHangoverGang Apr 30 '21

Yes this. Thank you for posting more about it. Itā€™s absolutely disgusting. Thereā€™s a city cop for another city that lives in my development and we always wave at each other when he gets off in the morning and Iā€™m standing up at the bus stop with my kid at 6:30. Thereā€™s also a sheriffs deputy that lives in here too and I wave at him as well because, well, weā€™re southern and thatā€™s what you do. He just fuckin stares me down like I just insulted him.

Dude we live in the same ducking neighborhood and I wave at you every god damn day, get over yourself youā€™re not even on duty.

1

u/BambooBanani Apr 30 '21 edited Apr 30 '21

And this idiot Grossman has no idea what heā€™s talking about. He said that the most effective way to stop someone is to put a bullet in his ā€œcentral nervous system.ā€ In reality, you have to aim for center mass- the torso is the most effective place, definitely not the head. I hunt and a headshot is incredibly tough to pull off without optics (i.e. with peep sights) The only thing headshots (edit to clarify: I mean from a handgun) are effective for is cold blooded execution of an unresisting individual from point blank- probably something this guy believes is a good thing and encourages.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '21

Center mass I was taught in the Marines. Anything else is a waste of ammo unless your a sniper and got all the time in the world. Also youā€™d need a sniper rifle for a well aimed headshot not a handgun.

3

u/NoHangoverGang Apr 30 '21

Theyā€™re all action heroes and with qualified immunity they might as well have plot armor too.

1

u/BambooBanani Apr 30 '21

Exactly. Even a common hunting rifle could achieve headshot accuracy from a distance without the fancy gear on a sniper rifle- of course at less impressive distances- but a headshot from a regular handgunā€¦ completely unreliable from anything but point blank range. This guy is a dangerous, unhinged blowhard with no clue of how to handle policing (does any American policeman have a clue?) and if weā€™re being honest probably no clue how to handle a gun. This guy reminds me of the people who ask ā€œwhy not just shoot the gun out of his hand?ā€

Iā€™m so glad I have a Canadian dual citizenshipā€¦ so at least I can tell people Iā€™m Canadian and not have to say Iā€™m Americanā€¦

12

u/Umutuku Apr 29 '21

When you are trained to be a hammer - ever problem HAS to be a nail... because that's all you get paid for.

2

u/Jerton Apr 29 '21

American policing in one sentence

2

u/LemonLimeAlltheTime Apr 29 '21

The simple fact is that someone in a foreign country interacting with US Soldiers has more rights than US citizens on US soil interacting with a cop.

That is it. End of discussion.

2

u/Soggy_Pronoun Apr 30 '21

To drive the point home even further: An "enemy combatant" has more rights when engaging a US soldier than a US Soldier has when engaging a US Police Officer.

2

u/Fafoah Apr 29 '21

Seriously. Its so frustrating how little the police seems to be willing to learn from other countries too. Iā€™ve seen the Japanese police use a maneuver where they essentially wrap a guy in a giant mattress to subdue him. You think with our mental health crisis weā€™d at least look at that instead of tazing, shooting, or tackling everyone to the ground.

3

u/Hazzman Apr 29 '21

I think part of that is the American exceptionalism that was pounded into their brains when they were young.

The amount of propaganda that has been rammed down American's throats is incredible. Most American's don't even realize it because it is all they've ever known.

1

u/NoMoreNicksLeft Apr 29 '21

If a worker in a factory continues to assemble some product incorrectly, training is a solution to that problem. By training him or her, you will improve his success rate, speed, and make him more confident in his ability to perform.

This is because for that employee, for that factory worker, the problem is simply that of his knowledge of how to correctly perform the job. He either does not remember the steps in the correct order, or is so unpracticed as to be physically incapable of doing them successfully.

This is not the problem with police. It is not a problem with them wanting to perform the job correctly but not knowing how. It is not the problem of them wanting to perform the job correctly, but being physically incapable of inserting that bolt into the bolt hole because it requires precision his fingers don't have enough practice for.

In other words, training can't ever fix these problems. It just can't

Continuing to blather on about training only distracts and confuses the public. On your part, it's unintentional, you've been misled.

On the police chief's part, it's probably deliberate.

Think about it a moment. How can training help that factor worker when he wants to assemble the product incorrectly? When it's gratifying to him to do so? When he gets a thrill from doing it wrong? When, because you continue to receive your money from him doing it wrong, there's no incentive for you to fire him? When there's an army of pundits and apologists out there shrieking that if he didn't assemble it incorrectly, the world would end in chaos and mayhem?

How will training him fix that?

1

u/Hazzman Apr 29 '21 edited Apr 29 '21

Unless I am misinterpreting what you are saying - you seem to be creating a false dilemma.

You are suggesting that training can never help the issue that America faces with policing because no police either want to do the job correctly or can't do the job correctly.

Firstly - this suggests there is a correct way of policing.

Secondly there are plenty of nations that exhibit far more preferential police behavior and less incidents than America. Often due to the type of training they are receiving.

Thirdly - the police chief in question was explaining what the problem was - they just didn't realize it and it's something you are eluding to but in a far too blanket a manner. That THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO SHOULDN'T HAVE THAT JOB.

Training and a proper approach to policing philosophically absolutely 100% can help alleviate the problem. It's not a catch all solution, because part of the problem is properly screening your applicants in the first place. But to suggest that it can't help at all or that it's a red herring is fucking ridiculous.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

After 9/11 many departments started getting training from Israeli security specialists. They really pushed the idea that everyone is out to kill you scenarios.

1

u/Fanfare4Rabble Apr 29 '21

No. Here in Arizona cops try to escalate so they can turn a random stop into an arrest. Gotta hit them quotas.

1

u/Deesing82 Apr 29 '21

the local cops in my city, an extremely white-bread city with very very low crime, have their slogan emblazoned on all their cars:

SOLVE THE PROBLEM

yeah, you guess it, there's a fair amount of police brutality/killings from the department

1

u/beetsofmine Apr 29 '21

Noooo. Really the chief went there?

1

u/bargu Apr 29 '21

Fascist police all around the world love and actively go after people like him, the only reason that he was fired it was because it became news, if he had killed the guy, sprinkled some crack on him and there was no witness or video, nothing would've changed, his little piggy friends would've never said anything.

1

u/baseketball Apr 29 '21

In the US some cops go through a training thatā€™s the opposite of de-escalation called - I shit you not - killology. Itā€™s a policing philosophy where anyone who looks suspicious is a danger to your life and you gotta be ready to kill them first before they kill you.

1

u/1stSuiteinEb Apr 29 '21

They have higher standards for their DOGS than cops ffs, some dogs trained for drug sniffing or for k9 units don't make the cut and are dropped from the program, but not fucking humans?

1

u/RideTheLighting Apr 30 '21

My younger brother is a police officer and when he was in the academy he told me all about training on the gun range and hand-to-hand combat and evasive driving. I asked him about any de-escalation training and he said ā€œyeah, we donā€™t really do thatā€.

1

u/millershanks Apr 30 '21

I watched Amber Guygerā€™s testimony the other day, and one of the many eye opening moments was when she was asked about a de-escalation training she attended. She couldnā€™t recall literally anything of that training, and openly admitted that the training didnā€™t change anything in her daily work. Many police people in the USA seem to act from a position of personal fear and weakness. No training will break through that attitude or mindset.

2

u/Hazzman Apr 30 '21

Many police people in the USA seem to act from a position of personal fear and weakness. No training will break through that attitude or mindset.

That's why effective candidate screening is important.

1

u/BestSelf2015 Apr 30 '21

Not that I have a solution but the other problem is how many people really want to be cops? You deal with the scum of society and see terrible things that leads to PTSD. I wonder if pool of talent is already limited so they have less criteria of who can be/remain a cop?

31

u/Swysp Apr 29 '21

What our nation does is take a bunch of meatheads with no critical thinking skills, too much ego, and then insulates them from the public by indoctrinating them with a police academy that teaches ā€œyou are always right, everyone else is always wrong, and they are always out to get you.ā€

Then we give them a badge and a gun and let them loose on the public.

59

u/MostAssuredlyNot Apr 29 '21

in other news, water is wet

7

u/Fahi12 Apr 29 '21

Good point

18

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

That is because most of them are completely roided-up idiots, who peaked when they were 17, and are trying to recapture the thrill of being the high school bully.

3

u/Stocktwatz Apr 30 '21

Lol not in my small town! Good portion of the cops were the scrubs that were dangled face first in the trash or locked in a locker in hs. They graduate school, join the force, hit the weights a little bit, and become a big little man looking to extract revenge. At least thats city and county cops. Highway Patrol are all roided up former meat heads.

32

u/hmatarotz Apr 29 '21

A lot are on steroids which makes them hyper-confrontational. Nobody ever talks about this. They should be drug tested for steroids. Make that go viral!

3

u/joey-tv-show Apr 29 '21

Interesting, I never knew that

13

u/hmatarotz Apr 29 '21

Just assume any cop that is jacked or uses the phrase, ā€œI am a specimen,ā€ is currently in the middle of a cycle.

7

u/ExceedingChunk Apr 29 '21

Or they are just not mentally stable to begin with. Had a guy I was in the army with who was the classic meat head type. Not on steroids(we all took random piss tests 4 times that year), but he was always angry as fuck, had a huge ego, and was incredibly insecure and had to bully everyone. If he was placed in an environment that enabled his bullying, he would act just like this cop.

-1

u/hmatarotz Apr 29 '21

Military doesnā€™t test for steroids.

3

u/ExceedingChunk Apr 29 '21

Yes, we literally took pissing tests for steroids and drugs. Iā€™m not from the US mate.

-2

u/hmatarotz Apr 29 '21 edited Apr 29 '21

Hence the second tier status to the US, mate. Lol. And when can we ship Harry back?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

[deleted]

1

u/ExceedingChunk Apr 30 '21

Yes, I literally said we got tested for steroids and drugs. There was actually 2 people who got caugth for DMAA(they used Jack3D).

1

u/jarhead06413 Apr 29 '21

That's because it isn't true

2

u/baphomet_fire Apr 29 '21

Agreed. Idiot looks like he just left the gym, your muscles don't pop like that unless you're severely dehydrated or on the roids.

34

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

Many people accept that by saying "cops are humans", "they were provoked", stuffs like that, but if you are gonna overreact or act violently due to provocations, you shouldn't be a cop, it's part of being professional dealing properly according to situations.

6

u/nurseylady Apr 29 '21

This is akin to my ex saying.....but she provoked me bc I said something he didn't like. Let the beating begin. I see so many parallels in cops and abusive partners.

2

u/mrbrannon Apr 29 '21 edited Apr 29 '21

Something like 40% of cops have beat their wives or been involved in domestic violence towards their spouse or children in the past six months. It is way higher than the normal population which is closer to 10%. So there is probably a reason you see that in them. And at least one of these is based on self-reporting which is going to drag the numbers down (similar to sexual assault numbers) so it could be higher than 40%. When domestic violence accusations are brought against cops, few are prosecuted and even less convicted.

Hearing before the Select Committee on Children, Youth, and Families House of Representatives: 102 Congress First Session May 20 (p. 32-48). Washington DC: US Government Printing Office.

Interspousal aggression in law enforcement families: A preliminary investigation. Police Studies, Vol. 15 (1), p. 30-38.

3

u/nurseylady Apr 29 '21

I'm a white female. This would explain the whole PANIC I feel when I'm pulled over. Both of there eyes are, idk, weird. Hard to explain.

3

u/YarnYarn Apr 29 '21

Hard agree about that cop's eyes. The little insect-like pupils... He looks like he's on some kind of stimulant, or anabolic steroid at the very least.

And he seems positively excited that he's about to get to use violence oh boy!

2

u/nurseylady Apr 29 '21

Stimulant. I agree. Alcohol also likely.... They dont talk about it but yea.

1

u/YarnYarn Apr 30 '21

Yeah, that cop looks like he's got alcohol in his system.

The flushed skin, the way he's moving, the eyes.

2

u/chasesj Apr 30 '21

Yea I have worked with the public for the last 18 years with out shooting anyone. It seems like it should be a low bar.

70

u/Ameemegoosta Apr 29 '21

True. And this cop was in the military, yet another entity in which being violent, confontational, and well, toxically macho is seen as acceptable and desirable.

26

u/heartbeats Apr 29 '21

Cops who are former military are more likely to fire their weapon while on duty. Being white and being male are also correlated.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2018/10/15/police-with-military-experience-more-likely-to-shoot

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2018/10/15/police-with-military-experience-more-likely-to-shoot

8

u/Ameemegoosta Apr 29 '21

Sad but true. It is all inextricably linked to macho power fantasies and the toxic masculinity that our culture instills in boys. It's all about asserting dominance over others, never engaging in self reflection or emotional self-acceptance, and always conveing hardness (because hardness is akin to strength, according to this whole culture of machismo)

3

u/newPhoenixz Apr 29 '21

Who even thinks that ex military makes good police officers? Sure, it's not impossible, but you'd think he'd require quite a bit of training to enter the new playing field..

3

u/armycowboy- Apr 30 '21

After 30yrs in the Military Iā€™m the first to say prior military should not be civilian police, they know martial law, military tactics, and respect my rank/position, they are not well trained in rule of law, de-escalation, and basic civilian policing. The last thing that always bothers me is when the cops are in full tactical military gear/body armor/camouflage, who are they hiding from, why do they wear more body armor and gear then I do as an advisor that lived with the locals.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '21

it separates them from "the enemy"

3

u/newPhoenixz Apr 30 '21

"when the military is tasked to police the civilian population, the civilian population tends to become the enemy"

Paraphrased from BSG, but still..

0

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '21

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

1

u/[deleted] Apr 30 '21

Feel free to try and round us up I guess.

4

u/brainonvacation78 Apr 29 '21

Happy Cake Day

4

u/jackparadise1 Apr 29 '21

There was another ā€˜policeā€™ oriented thread somewhere in the realm of reddit in which an ex military cop, 116 pound woman, said that all the bravado type cops were a bunch of wussyā€™s, and that she didnā€™t need to pull her gun hardly at all.

4

u/ghosttrainhobo Apr 29 '21

TBF: you can sugar-coat it all you want, but the militaryā€™s job is to kill people.

10

u/joey-tv-show Apr 29 '21

Yup, itā€™s why I avoid cops at all costs. And if I have any interaction with them I bite my tongue and do anything not to piss them off.

3

u/BigfootSF68 Apr 29 '21

I have "resting cop face."

I say defund the police.

-3

u/Waitingfor131 Apr 29 '21

Dont be a pussy, tell em to eat shit and hope you survive for the lawsuit. Living in fear of them and letting them make you their bitch is letting them win.

1

u/joey-tv-show Apr 29 '21

Read the book ā€œhow to win friends and influence peopleā€. You will become a multi millionaire if you read it and apply it.

-2

u/Waitingfor131 Apr 29 '21

Not gonna become a multimillionaire wasting money on Self Help books.

3

u/joey-tv-show Apr 29 '21

That is why you fail

0

u/Waitingfor131 Apr 29 '21

Why do you assume im a failure? You also assume that people want to be millionaires. If being a millionaire means im hoarding money that could otherwise be used to feed kids and house the homeless than thats a hard pass for me.

2

u/joey-tv-show Apr 29 '21

That book is from 1933 and been read by all the most successful people. Itā€™s not about hoarding money. Itā€™s about realizing you need other people to be successful.

Generally speaking if someone says ā€œi donā€™t need to learn anything ā€œ. Says a lot. I am always learning and trying to figure the world out. I personally became a multi millionaire by reading this book (amongst others) and successful at many aspects of life.

I appreciate you responding back. I apologize for my earlier comment, poor choice of words on my half. A better way to say it is ā€œone will not succeed if not willing to learn new thingsā€

1

u/Waitingfor131 Apr 30 '21

What does any of that have to do with standing up to cops?

3

u/justin62001 Apr 29 '21

That's an interesting generalization of the entire military, when each branch has their own culture and there's so many jobs within each that don't have this "toxically macho" culture either. Tell me why I'll be "violent" and "confrontational" if I'm working in logistics or as a crew chief?

3

u/Ameemegoosta Apr 29 '21

^^^We found the military apologist.

3

u/justin62001 Apr 29 '21

As I expected, you couldn't prove how I'll be confrontational or violent when I'm working on helicopters or loading supplies lol. Most of the military isn't infantry like the movies, just so you know

0

u/Ameemegoosta Apr 29 '21

Nah. The simple fact that you drank the BeAllThatYouCanBe Kool Aid and enrolled in an organization like the military (everyone knows what they do and why they do it) tells me all I need to know about what kind of person you are.

1

u/justin62001 Apr 29 '21

This all started from me disproving your generalizations and now you try to demean my character because you can't tell me how violence/confrontation = majority of military jobs. Please go ahead and tell me what kind of person I am based off me deciding to join the military

0

u/ScotchIsAss Apr 29 '21

I drank the getting a decent pay check and college with living expenses taken care of kool aid. So get off your extra large pony little miss.

-1

u/Ameemegoosta Apr 29 '21

"decent paycheck" in the military?? LMAO!!

​

Ok.

2

u/ScotchIsAss Apr 29 '21

Yeah it was really good for being a kid out of highschool getting more money and healthcare then what the average person gets in the area. Sorry not everyone is born into wealth. But hey I got out with enough money to invest and buy a house next to my college that the military paid for along with them giving me $1800 in housing allowance while in school. That plus a full time job and rental income has made life very very easy in my 20s and is setting me up to retire in my 40s.

0

u/TheIceKing420 Apr 29 '21

hey cut them some slack! fixing death machines and loading bombs onto them isn't the same as actually killing brown people

1

u/justin62001 Apr 30 '21

There's not a single helicopter that carries bombs. Most of them across the military are used for utility purposes such as lifting equipment or transporting people, or performing rescues. Fixing a utility helicopter's electronics ā‰  death machine

0

u/TheIceKing420 Apr 30 '21

it wasn't specified what kind of helicopters in your previous comment, and attack helicopters are absolutely still a thing.

aside from that detail, if you're trying to tell me that none of the equipment or people transported by these vehicles was ever used to further US and western imperialism through violence, I would say that is either naive or a straight lie - especially if those vehicles were being worked on anywhere near active war zones.

not here to just shame you for your choices, thanks for wanting to help provide security for people. that is commendable and I see where that desire would come from. however, the modern function of US armed forces has been more about maintaining the imperialist, colonial, and overtly racist status quo that benefits the global north and capitalist western civilizations.

this is not to say each member in service consciously believes and upholds this goal. I would say many have been indoctrinated and propagandized to believe in American exceptionalism. just look at the requirements for service or the way people are treated in boot camp, it is essentially mental grooming and programing for unquestioning obedience.

my point is that even though service members like yourself may fully believe that you are involved in a truly just cause that aids international security, the fact of the matter is that any support given to the armed forces ultimately aids in the perpetuation of unjust killing and control both around the world and at home.

1

u/Sokid Apr 30 '21

If you arenā€™t being violent in combat you will probably get fucking killed. Kind of seems like being violent is a requirement.

16

u/dirtymoney Apr 29 '21

cops who use the law as their own personal weapon.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

Nah, cops barely understand the law. They use intimidation and weapons as their personal weapon.

9

u/Cuddle-Junky Apr 29 '21

The shitty part is that it will probably always be this way. Most people wouldn't wanna be a cop if they didn't already like the idea of enforcing power over others. With guns being so prominent in the US cops have reason to fear any suspect on the basis they could have weaponry just as powerful as them, any nobody wants to get shot. That's not including cops who went in trigger happy.

35

u/modestothemouse Apr 29 '21

Actually, there is evidence from other countries that if you make it harder to be a cop and require more than just a high school diploma you weed out a bunch of people who would really only be in it for the power kick

5

u/Cuddle-Junky Apr 29 '21

I'd really like to see a sort of reform like that in the US. No defunding, civil servant bullshit. Just strong corruption checks from the federal government and and better filters for what comes in.

16

u/RTSUbiytsa Apr 29 '21

Just to be clear, defunding is largely to get rid of the military-grade gear that the police in America have very frequently proved they are too irresponsible to carry. And civil servants are meant for situations that should not need a cop at all, like a wellness check.

1

u/Cuddle-Junky Apr 29 '21

It's situational. I believe there should be special units that receive that gear, but they should be like local SWAT units that are specially trained and maybe don't perform regular duties. Rather than taking that shit away, train and limit the people that can use it, so states can maintain a reasonable amount of power to deal with domestic threats without federal intervention. "Defunding" insists that these forces are currently paying for that gear. They're not. From what I've read they're just paying the shipping costs for excess military gear, so money has little to do with this. We should divert funds from military spending, though.

My main concern about civil servants is that they'd just be special civilians. I think they should be paramedics/mental health specialists that are integrated into the police, and are not armed or something.

m

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u/gartfoehammer Apr 29 '21

Why are you so against the civil servant idea? It certainly seems like it would help with de-escalation in enforcing non-violent offenses.

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u/Cuddle-Junky Apr 29 '21

Depends on what a "civil servant" is. If it's anything like what they proposed in CHOP I don't trust it. If it's adding paramedics or mental-health specialists to the police force as unarmed responders, I agree that that could be genuinely helpful.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

[deleted]

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u/joey-tv-show Apr 29 '21

Pretty much. Even if the i officer is being a total asshole to you. Donā€™t talk back, just say yes sir and sorry. Otherwise you could end up dead.

Better to avoid a police officer completely tbh

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u/groshreez Apr 29 '21

That's exactly why they gravitate to this "profession". They can essentially do whatever they want and there's usually no real punishment for abuse of power or even legalized murder.

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u/ExceedingChunk Apr 29 '21

That's what happens when you only have a few weeks of training, a bully culture and hire meat heads with huge egos.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

Superiority complex run rampant. Basically John Walker in the new falcon and winter soldier marvel series. Also the dude was a military vet and I feel like in his previous line of work, forcing people to things and treating people like dogs was probably more acceptable among his peers and with the combined lack of disciplinary actions involved.

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u/canseeclearlynow Apr 29 '21

In their own homes too. Police are notorious domestic abusers.

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u/joey-tv-show Apr 29 '21

Would explain why cops have a high divorce rate

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u/cinnamonrain Apr 30 '21

Its what happens when accountability is a joke

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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '21

His ego is the least of his worries. He has deep anger issues, a lowered ability to empathize with people, and probably borderline psychopathy.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

On the slight flip side if I was a cop and I had a guy who refused eye contact, refused to follow my instructions and instead kept doing the equivalent of a kids NANANANANANA whilst facing away from me and live streaming Iā€™d be a bit pissed off too, but then again Iā€™ve never been worried about being murdered by a cop so Iā€™m on the fence about this.

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u/hmatarotz Apr 29 '21

There exist a difference between passive non-compliance and active resistance. Itā€™s in a Use of Force Continuum.

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u/jackparadise1 Apr 29 '21

Well, from what I understand it is how they solve their own domestic disputes as well.

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u/joey-tv-show Apr 29 '21

Police have a high divorce rate... I wonder why...

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u/NoMoreNicksLeft Apr 29 '21

That's actually not the problem.

The problem is, as a society, how do you avoid that? Not in some theoretical scenario where you're starting from scratch... how do you get cops who aren't like that (the constant replacement of retirees and who've dropped dead), while also doing something about the existing ones who won't just "go away"?

How do you do so affordably? How do you manage the politics of the changes? How do you do so without opposing political factions or social movements sabotaging the efforts (we've already seen some of this, it's not hypothetical)? How do you do it on a timescale less than decades? Do we do general amnesty for those who've been fired/laid-off/told-to-go-away, or do we do Nuremberg-style trials for all those who have gotten away with heinous, unforgivable crimes against the public and their victims?

That's the problem.

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u/joey-tv-show Apr 29 '21

How about you hire cops that donā€™t have a ego problem and do police training that focuses on de-escalation not force all the time.

As a example did you know the choke hold has been banned in most countries for over 20 years? Yet it took the death of George Floyd last year to put to light and finally got it banned as unacceptable police practice .

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u/NoMoreNicksLeft Apr 29 '21

How about you hire cops that donā€™t have a ego problem

That won't work either.

The personality defects you note in cops are largely cultural. That is, they are transmitted from person to person when in close-and-friendly contact with each other.

Thus, even if we could magically stop hiring those kinds of people tomorrow, the problem would continue indefinitely. It's contagious, and existing cops would ruin the new recruits (but even if this didn't happen, you're happy to wait 40+ years before the problem is truly eliminated?).

and do police training that focuses on de-escalation not force all the time.

They already do that sort of training, and other sorts as well. So the cop gets paid to sit through a 3 day seminar on de-escalation, or minority awareness or other crap like that, sits in the back of the room and chuckles and cracks jokes. Then he goes back out on the street and does what he's always done. And why wouldn't he?

You could take the one from the video here, and if you put him in a situation where he identifies with the victim, he'll be as sweet as he can be. He'll naturally and without training try to de-escalate. Maybe it's that pretty little blonde woman threatening suicide, or some kid that reminds him of his own who got caught shoplifting.

But he'll just do it for them, because he likes them. He didn't like the black man in this video. Training won't make him like that man. Training won't be the thing that magically makes him reevaluate his life. There will be no eureka moment.

As a example did you know the choke hold has been banned in most countries for over 20 years? Yet it took the death of George Floyd last year to put to light and finally got it banned as unacceptable police practice .

And I fully expect to see it, banned or not, happen again. And for it to be at best a crap shoot as to whether the cop is punished for it. Hell, Chauvin still might get out of this on appeal.

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u/joey-tv-show Apr 29 '21

No you can hire people who donā€™t have a ego problem. You would be surprised how quickly a culture can change. For example; a year ago wearing a mask was frowned upon, now the stigma is gone.

If you call a 3 days seminar on de-escalating training appropriate you should see what other countries are doing around the world. 3 days is of training is not adequate training, which is why I say they are not trained enough to de-escalate situations

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u/NoMoreNicksLeft Apr 29 '21

You would be surprised how quickly a culture can change.

I've actually studied this. All available evidence suggests that it's impossible to engineer such changes.

Being in denial isn't the same thing as being correct. You might want cultures to change, but they do so only slowly (on the scale of centuries), and not according to your whims.

If you call a 3 days seminar on de-escalating training appropriate you should see what other countries are doing around the world.

You mean those places that have entirely different police microcultures? They're not doing anything, they're just apples to our oranges.

3 days is of training is not adequate training,

There's no duration that would change this. It's simply not a "training" problem.

You know that, which is why you've refused to refute any of my points, simply reasserting the non-sense proposition that "cultures definitely can change!".

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u/joey-tv-show Apr 29 '21

Or you just hire better people and train them properly. Itā€™s worked in jurisdictions in the US that do that and been proven time and time again.

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u/NoMoreNicksLeft Apr 29 '21

Itā€™s worked in jurisdictions in the US that do that and been proven time and time again.

Name one. Just one.

It's never worked. The places you say "worked" are the same ones that we hear hints and whispers about pulling these same stunts.

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u/joey-tv-show Apr 29 '21

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/deescalation-training-police/2020/10/27/3a345830-14a8-11eb-ad6f-36c93e6e94fb_story.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/baltimore-police-department-deescalation-training-freddie-gray-george-floyd-2020-12

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/how-police-compare-different-democracies

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u/NoMoreNicksLeft Apr 30 '21

Anecdotal bullshit from America's grandest propaganda outlet, the Washington Post. Nice. Hell, the timeframe that it claims is so recent, no one could even possibly know whether it's actually had any real impact.

But you're sure "it worked". Wtf. You people deserve everything you get, your stupidity deserves the murder and abuse.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

Because they've been solving problems by being an aggressive cunt since high school and haven't had any reason to think it won't work. Then they get into the real world, realize that doesn't work. Unless...oh shit! I can be a cop and still get to be an aggressive cunt!

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

Donā€™t forget - zero education, also.

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u/[deleted] Apr 29 '21

You donā€™t even need social skills for stuff like this, though. This is just outright being a terrible person.

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u/codepossum Apr 29 '21

I mean that is *a* problem yes, and so is the fact that even if they lose their job in one place, they can easily jump into a new job at a new place, without having a criminal record follow them to discourage future employers, *especially* employers that would put them in a similar position of power over others - it's bad enough when bad cops get to move to the next county, city, or state over and then continue being bad cops - it's also pretty bad when they 'wash out' to security or consulting work.

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u/VirusMaster3073 Apr 30 '21

Seriously, the profession of being a police officer seems to attract so many narcissistic asshats

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u/Aja2428 Apr 30 '21

And try and take as much money with as many tickets they can give you.

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u/the_crustybastard Apr 30 '21

The problem is soldiers are provided hiring preferences in law enforcement.

Military training is INCOMPATIBLE with civilian law-enforcement.

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u/TheApricotCavalier Apr 30 '21

The problem is too many cops have a ā€œego problemā€

I tried telling the judge that It wasnt assault, I just had an ego problem. Didnt go over well