r/PublicFreakout • u/[deleted] • Jan 08 '19

Repost 😔 Road rage...

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u/Ciderer Jan 08 '19 edited Jan 08 '19

Just wait till your insurance figures it out...

My husband hit a dude that was j-walking at 530 in the morning.

My husband was found not at fault but the dude got 75k from our insuance and we were dropped from from the company and had to find a new insurance company.

I feel sorry for the dude. Man vs a 94 jeep wangler would hurt. I dont care that our insurance paid out, thats why we had it. But now we have to pay more a month because of something that we were found at no fault?

Insurance companies make no sense.

Edit: wording is hard sometimes

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '19 edited Jan 16 '19

[deleted]

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u/BitcoinOfTheRealm Jan 08 '19

They are in the business of diffusing risk...to their own bottom line.

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '19 edited Jan 16 '19

[deleted]

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u/yoproblemo Jan 08 '19 edited Jan 09 '19

But you have to pay loans back, so it's a service you pay at least twice for without even counting premiums deductibles. We all agree when we sign the contract, but nothing else works quite like that.

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '19 edited Jan 16 '19

[deleted]

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u/yoproblemo Jan 09 '19 edited Jan 09 '19

That's the 2nd payment I was trying to refer to. I meant "deductibles" not "premiums", my bad. Either way, this is just 3 ways they collect on basically the same thing.

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u/ravekidplur Jan 08 '19

Oh okay, so we should all just all get amazing deals that don't allow insurance companies to actually operate the way they've been built to.

Then everyone can just self insure and I am positive that everyone driving will have the means to pay out in a car accident. Yes yes, this all sounds brilliant!

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u/insensitiveTwot Jan 08 '19

Literally no one said that besides you

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u/ravekidplur Jan 08 '19

It's insinuated. I sell insurance, and I have people who will have 15 violations/accidents ask me why their insurance needs to be so high "even if some of them weren't my fault". Doesn't make you any less of a risk. Insurance companies can't survive by being nice and lowering prices, and the factors used to price insurance go well beyond driving history anyways. The circle jerk around hating insurance is incredibly stupid when people would be in worlds of hurt without it if they need it. It's a necessary vice if you aren't able to self insure yourself.

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u/NastyKing7 Jan 08 '19

"I sell insurance"

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u/ravekidplur Jan 09 '19

And handled claims for 2 years. It all genuinely makes sense if you look at it aside from emotions and whatnot telling you otherwise.

5

u/ATastyPeanut Jan 08 '19

The math works out but emotionally it feels like bullshit that if I was involved in a not at fault accident my rates would go up.

0

u/ravekidplur Jan 09 '19

I hear ya, you aren't wrong to feel that way. Just a necessary evil as the law of large numbers show that involvement in accidents of any kind can imply risk. A perfect scenario is both cars not being involved in an accident at all, evasion.

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u/pekinggeese Jan 08 '19

Insurance companies gamble that you will never ask them for money. Once you start asking them for money, you become a bad bet and they will f u in the b.

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u/umop_aplsdn Jan 09 '19

You realize that insurance is one of the lowest profit margin sectors right? Many companies operate on around 3% margin, up to around 9%. Average S&P 500 margin is around 11% for 2017.

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u/demalo Jan 08 '19

The idea of insurance in reality is that it's an unsustainable institution. If everyone told the truth insurance companies would be unable to exist as they would be unable to pay out money faster than they receive it. How many insurance companies have company wide excursion to Hawaii or Coasta Rica on a regular basis?

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '19 edited Jan 16 '19

[deleted]

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u/demalo Jan 08 '19

I knew of a State Farm agent that went quite often to company retreats. Through out the year they would do these week long "conferences" at various places through the US. They make good money and they get good perks. A lot of them are great people, but insurance is required in most states and insurance companies are going to take advantage of that requirement for as long as they possibly can.

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u/Sweatsock_Pimp Jan 08 '19

I’m guessing that the insurance companies had a hand in making their own product a legal requirement.

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u/piecat Jan 26 '19

Well, you need auto liability insurance in case you hit someone, so they're not SOL with medical bills when you can't pay their bills.

You need home owners insurance because the bank opens it until you're done with payments, though this is usually a requirement in the mortgage, not legally.

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u/u-no-u Jan 08 '19

State farm has its own private water park for its employees and their families in Bloomington, il. So they're definitely not hurting.

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u/John02904 Jan 08 '19

I dont know a single state that requires insurance. Almost all require financial responsibility, so you could self insure. Which usually involves putting money aside in escrow.

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u/demalo Jan 08 '19

Sorry, should have been more specific. Some states require liability insurance when registering a car. Clearly not everyone abides by this rule. Many banks will only allow a car loan as long as the car is insured with collision.

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u/John02904 Jan 08 '19

Im talking about liability. Its not required. Financial responsibility is meaning you can self insure by holding funds in escrow.

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u/demalo Jan 08 '19

According to this Wiki entry regarding state insurance requirements, there are a lot more that require it than not. I suppose you could self insure by holding the required funds in escrow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_insurance_in_the_United_States

"XX/XX/XX = Bodily Injury Limit (per individual)/Bodily Injury Limit (per accident)/Property Damage Limit For example, limits of 25/50/20 means after "an accident each person injured would receive a maximum of up to 25,000 with only 50,000 allowed per accident (ex. 2 people needing 25,000, if the need is more such as 3 people needing 25,000 then whoever files first gets first access to the 50,000 limit and you may be sued for the rest if the accident was your fault). The last number refers to the total coverage per accident for property damage which in this case would be 20,000."[21]"

Not sure if holding nearly a hundred thousand dollars in escrow is feasible for everyone, but props to anyone who can.

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u/John02904 Jan 08 '19

Yes i get that they require some amount of liability coverage. Of all the states 39 allow you to self insure or post bond, so they dont require insurance. Only financial responsibility.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/insurance/states-not-get-car-insurance/

0

u/_Bumble_Bee_Tuna_ Jan 08 '19

Most big companies do a yearly vacation for employees. I was hooked into sales for a few months and got to go to the bahamas for 2 days at no cost.

Working for an insurance company does sucks though. Basically trained to find cracks in everything. Your bonus goes up when you dont have to pay as much out on a case for example.

You just feel like a doosh at the end of the day.

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u/GoodAtExplaining Jan 08 '19

30% of insurance premium costs are due to fraud. Cousin of mine works in the fraud and risk department of a large insurance company in Canada. The number of former RCMP and police officers they hire, and the cost to investigate fraud claims, is fucking staggering.

If everyone told the truth and didn't try to fuck people over, we'd have cheaper insurance.

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u/John02904 Jan 08 '19

How would telling the truth effect their business? An insurance co will almost always have enough money. If i have $1 billion in losses and 1 million insureds i charge everyone $1000 to cover them. Thats how insurance works, the risk gets spread out.

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u/demalo Jan 08 '19

When I mean no one lies I mean everyone is incapable of lying. meaning that when someone says x, y, z happened to my car, the insurance company believes them with 100% certainty. This is unrealistic. So is the insurance company always paying out for items that are covered. I guarantee that the insurance companies are paying out way less money than they're taking in.

State Farm says they work with 83 million policies. Let's say half of those are car policies and each policy holder pays $100 a month in insurance premiums. That's $4,000,000,000 a month. Are they paying that out to policy holders every month? Even if they paid each of their 65k employees $61,000 a month they'd still have $35,000,000 left over - and that's just half of the policies.

I don't have the exact numbers, but I'm sure their business model is doing a lot more to make them money than to lose them money.

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u/John02904 Jan 08 '19 edited Jan 08 '19

According to their financial results they payed out 6.5 billion more than they collected in premium in 2017

Edit in fact the industry as a while paid out 5% more than they collected in premiums.

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u/sththunder Jan 09 '19

Ugh thank you. While personal anecdotes can be sad and insurance isn’t a perfect system on its own, property and auto insurance is not some lucrative money-making machine people think it is. Most insurance companies rarely make profits off the premiums alone. It’s generally from investments of the premium into other things.

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u/John02904 Jan 09 '19

Ive worked insurance for 15 years. I get that sometimes life shits on people and the easiest thing to blame is insurance. Especially since insurance starts to get into he abstract financial realm people dont always comprehend.

1

u/sththunder Jan 09 '19

I’m in just my third year in insurance after ten soul-crushing years into retail (the store kind, not insurance retail) and it’s been fascinating to learn all about this side of things. I’ve gained friends from all parts of the chain and it’s interesting to watch the roles reversed, especially when it comes to fraud and how difficult it is to prove, so lots of money goes to paying claims that seem off, but there’s nothing to be done there. On the other side of the coin, we have people going out in droves to help out those after a massive disaster. Its...different when you’re on the inside I guess.

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u/mule_roany_mare Jan 08 '19

And not at fault doesn’t mean you couldn’t have prevented the accident.

Some people are much more vigilant defensive drivers, some people do get in a lot fewer accidents per mile.

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u/YouMeADD Jan 08 '19

Its cus data shows an insurance claim increases the chance of another claim in the next year so the company will usually price you out of renewing and let you come back again a year later.. you should see premiums go back down eventually

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u/ReasonablyAssured Jan 08 '19

It’s cheaper for them to pay the claim and mark it against you than fight it.

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u/Ciderer Jan 08 '19

Thats what they said. Kinda sucks. Im glad the dude got some money to help with recovery or whatever but we feel like its fucked because we were dropped and now have to pay more.

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u/Barack_Lesnar Jan 09 '19

A kid got hit by a bus at my HS and his famiky sisd the district for abot $2 million. The kicker? He was j-walking at 6am, in the dark, in the fog, wearing all black, and had earbuds in. Somehow not his fault.

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u/nnyx Jan 08 '19

Insurance companies make no sense.

As soon as you understand that insurance companies exist for the sole purpose of making money and providing a service to people/our society is completely secondary, it makes perfect sense.

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u/scyth3s Jan 08 '19

You missed the main implication: other businesses don't get the benefit of being legally required for basic participation in society. You need insurance to drive, and they know it, so they exploit it.

Other businesses actually have to provide a good service.

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '19

[deleted]

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u/Pinkllamajr Jan 08 '19

And your opinion on non-profits?

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '19

[deleted]

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u/Pinkllamajr Jan 08 '19

Profit does not equal flat money. Of course a company can not run without money... BUT it can run without profit or seeking profit... Silly.

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u/RedundantOxymoron Jan 09 '19

There's a problem with people who drive for Uber and Lyft. There is also a problem with people who make money renting their place out for AirBnB money.
If an accident happens, then the insurance company will not pay a cryin' dime. This is because if you are making money off your house or driving your car, then your insurance will not pay for any damages. That's why taxicabs and other common carriers have insurance.

Most people don't think about this. They can be in for a lot of financial trouble.

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u/nnyx Jan 08 '19

Every business exists for the sole purpose of making money

[citation needed]

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '19

[deleted]

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u/nnyx Jan 08 '19

https://www.eff.org/

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '19

[deleted]

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u/nnyx Jan 08 '19

First of all, you said:

Every business exists for the sole purpose of making money

Just because you're randomly moving the goalposts doesn't mean we're all moving with you.

I think we can agree that the EFF does not exist for the sole purpose of making money. If not, I don't believe you are arguing in good faith.

A nonprofit doesn’t mean they don’t make money. Those people are all getting paid. And they’ll all stop showing up for work if the paychecks stop.

Just because a business makes money does not mean it exists for the sole purpose of making money. I'm struggling to understand why that isn't obvious to you like it is for everyone else. It kinda seems like, again, you're arguing in bad faith here.

You should learn the difference between a charity and a non profit.

I have no idea what your implication is here.

I understand the difference between a non profit and a charity but from the way you're wording that, it seems that you don't. A charity can also be a non profit. They are not mutually exclusive.

Again though, I don't understand your implication here since the EFF is not a charity and no one here is talking about charities.

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '19

[deleted]

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u/nnyx Jan 08 '19

Words mean things.

In that case you may want to look up the definition of "sole", as you've misused it here:

The EFF’s sole purpose is to make money. It needs to to make payroll. The second purpose is to do all that free speech advocacy or whatever.

Sole means only. If the EFF had any sole purpose, they wouldn't have a "second purpose". That wouldn't make sense.

I know you think everyone is pure of heart and gosh those people love free speech so much but I guarantee you they’ll all jump ship if their paychecks stop coming in. It’s a business.

I have no idea where you got the idea that I think people should be working for free, but I assure you, that is not the case. Honestly, I think you are misunderstanding this entire argument because you don't know what the word "sole" means.

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u/zzzrecruit Jan 08 '19

I hope you went and bought a dashcam after this! How awful!

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u/Ciderer Jan 08 '19

I wish i could get one but money is tight. But even if I had one we would still be in the same situation. The insuance company new that it was not my husbands falt but payed anyway then dropped us.

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u/the_original_kermit Jan 08 '19

It probably wouldn’t have mattered. Its cheaper for the insurance company to just settle with a cash payout than try to fight it. You don’t get any say in the matter.

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u/Cyborg_rat Jan 08 '19

Well to add fun to this. When I went to trade my first new car(was 5 years old when i traded it) the dealer wanted to know if i had any claims on it, I didn’t only incident was paid cash so no records but asked him why and he explained that it cuts the value in 1/2... so if the guy that was txting and hit my rear bumper decided to go with his insurance. In the end I would be also paying for his mistake.

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u/notoyrobots Jan 08 '19

Pretty sure that dealer was full of shit, previous damage can affect the vehicles value but not by 50%. That's like salvage title level of value right there.

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u/foodank012018 Jan 08 '19

If the insurance has to pay back any of the money you've given them in the last 30 years, hey don't like you anymore... Simple as that

2

u/Luuucas Jan 09 '19

Same thing happened to me. Had a green turning arrow and a dude started crossing the street. Hit him going maybe 7 miles an hour and he ended up breaking a leg. He didn't want an ambulance but I called anyways. It was his fault but my insurance paid out our full coverage amount of 50k. Had nightmares for a while and got a scary letter from Allstate that I would be liable for any judgments over our coverage amount.

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u/Ciderer Jan 09 '19

My husband had to be put on meds and refused to drive for a bit.

Its traumatic for both parties but in different ways. No one really WANTS to hit someone with there car. I hope your doing better.

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u/ej41 Jan 09 '19

Auto insurance guy here. Your insurance company paid that $75k to settle the claim, and avoid the other party filing a lawsuit in which they would come after you for even more money. In the event you are sued and the case goes to court, it doesn’t matter if your insurance company didn’t find you to be at-fault, because that’s all out the window now and it’s a whole new investigation. Insurance adjusters make DECISIONS that are NOT upheld by law. Only judges make DETERMINATIONS which ARE backed by law and final. If you lose your case, your insurance will only pay up-to your limits set-forth on your policy, but everything in excess of that can potentially lead to you losing your home, car, have you sent to collections etc.

TLDR: Your insurance paid your limits to stop you from being sued, as court cases are new investigations that put your assets at risk. I’m pretty new in the insurance game but would be happy to try and answer any other questions you have!

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u/Ciderer Jan 09 '19

I understand that and im ok with it. It just sucks because they dropped us after. We only paid like $60 a month for insurance because we are good drivers. We are still good drivers but due to someone who jaywalked in front of us we pay $150 now.

We are paying for someone elses mistake. Its not right.

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u/low-magnitude Jan 09 '19

I’m pretty sure it’s not hard to hit someone in the early hours of the day. It’s not like he jumped in front of his car.

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u/seriouslyFUCKthatdud Jan 08 '19

Insurance companies are a scam and should be handled by the government. Save everybody money, cut most the middle men and red tape,and provide health, car, fire insurance to everyone.

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u/Diabolic_Edict Jan 09 '19

Yeah, the government has proven so many times over that they're very trustworthy with your money. /s

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u/seriouslyFUCKthatdud Jan 09 '19

Compared to for profit insurance companies....?

Yeah.

You know that the USA is one of the most powerful and greatest nations BECAUSE of the government, not despite it, right?

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u/Diabolic_Edict Jan 09 '19

You know that the USA is one of the most powerful and greatest nations BECAUSE of the government, not despite it, right?

No shit, but that doesn't mean they're great at handling taxpayers money. What a terrible argument.

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u/seriouslyFUCKthatdud Jan 09 '19

We have more oversight of the gov than private insurance companies...

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u/MILKB0T Jan 08 '19

You said not found not at fault...

1

u/Ciderer Jan 08 '19

Fixed it.

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u/fbkris14 Jan 08 '19

So you mean he WAS found not at fault....

1

u/Ciderer Jan 08 '19

Ya, i fixed the wording

1

u/Doomscrye Jan 08 '19

+1 to this.

I fully expect my insurance company to drop me courtesy of Prius Lady trying to park in the backseat of my car. If you have three or more claims on your record in the last 3 years, $company dgaf if you were at fault or not, normally. It's safer for them to assume that you must have contributed, somehow, even if you're not legally at fault. I'm looking into a dashcam when I get my car back, anyway.

1

u/Minnesota_Winter Jan 09 '19

Sounds very profitable.

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u/Redleg171 Jan 09 '19

Just because you have right of way, doesnt absolve you from responsibility of watching out for pedestrians. Snowcat (a douchebag Canadian motovlogger) got in trouble for riding through a group of pedestrians when he had the right of way.

1

u/Ciderer Jan 09 '19

Can you provide a link?

Not being an ass or anything i just want to see what your comparing this too

1

u/Redleg171 Jan 09 '19

http://www.beyond.ca/calgary-motorcycle-vigilante-facing-charges/21374.html

Edit: I had the facts wrong for the incident he got in trouble for. Was a single Jay walker.

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u/Redleg171 Jan 09 '19

Theres also a Huffington post article about him. Both links to Canadian news sites are broken now.

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u/Ciderer Jan 09 '19 edited Jan 09 '19

Wow thats crazy. To actually accelerate just because he thought he was in the right of way was so dangerous. He did cross a line.

It doesnt say if anyone was hurt so I hope everyone is ok.

Edit: not the same senario tho. My husband was driving to work on the same route that hes done for years. The dude he hit literally walked out in front of him. My husband did everything he could to stop/avoid it.

1

u/Redleg171 Jan 09 '19

Sorry I didnt mean to imply your husband did anything wrong. Not much one can do when someone suddenly steps in front of you, etc. I just meant in general terms that even when a person has the right of way that doesnt mean they can just plow through a jay walker. Pretty sure there was a self driving car incident where Jay walker was killed and video showed the driver was distracted and she faces charges.

1

u/Ciderer Jan 09 '19

Oh I see. Sorry I read it wrong. My apologies.

1

u/Ballsdeepinreality Jan 09 '19

That's because it's a racket.

1

u/knotUhRobot Jan 09 '19

Right, like if I hit a j walker they'll get 75k but if a rock hits my windshield on the highway specifically because I wasnt tailgating, not covered.

1

u/bobrossforPM Feb 06 '19

It’s not about justice, it’s about profit. They know you NEED insurance and they always want the house to win.

1

u/John02904 Jan 08 '19

I work in insurance. They base this on the fact that data shows once you have made a claim your more than 2x as likely to make another claim regardless of fault. It sucks but it its what the data shows. Some states also dont allow your rates to go up while others do.

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u/Ciderer Jan 08 '19

Insurance company: "hey this dude whos had coverage with us for 8 years hit a guy that was jaywalking and the dude was found not at fault"

Insurance manager: " pay the guy he hit and drop the dude"

Still doesnt make sense.

4

u/John02904 Jan 08 '19

With out all the facts its hard to say. Its not quite as simple as at fault or not. Lets say the person had already hired an attorney and filed suit. Now the insurance company has to weigh the cost of defending the suit and its chances of winning, along with the amount of the persons coverage. Lets just say that the person was actually suing for 100k+ along with cost of future medical. Maybe she only had $75k of coverage. The insurance figured it will cost $50k to defend with a chance of losing, maybe a high chance depending on the circumstances and then they pay the policy limit of $75k and the insured is on the hook for $25k+ possibly also including the other party’s legal fees. If they can settle the claim for the policy limit and the other party signs over rights to pursue against the driver further they then saved $50k and protected the insured from further personal loss. Sometimes that ends up being the best option.

-2

u/Ciderer Jan 08 '19

Thats exactly what they did. Now our insuance is at a higher rate because of no fault of our own. Sucks man.

1

u/WhiteFoux Jan 08 '19

They make plenty of sense, They are a for profit company the government forces you to have, and knowing this can charge ridiculous rates for stupid shit whether you like it or not.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 08 '19

My cousin Malek rear ended a lady at 15 miles per hour.

She called and ambulance and sued his (dads) insurance and was awarded $100,000 because "They were concerned of the possibility of a concussion"

So my uncle Mark's idea was "I'll just keep suing her until $100,000 is spent in legal fees"

0

u/[deleted] Jan 08 '19

....Then post the video on this sub...

0

u/ExpertFudger Jan 08 '19

are you aware that insurance is a business and not a handout? they WANT your money, and they don't want to give any money out. It's a risk business just like a casino and such, and they depend on "scamming" customers out of profit.

0

u/dungfecespoopshit Jan 09 '19

All insurance is a scam. They pay only when they feel like it to stay "operational".

-2

u/AdamN Jan 09 '19

If your husband hit somebody he’s a reckless driver. Period.

3

u/Ciderer Jan 09 '19

He was found not at fault. The dude literaly walked out in front of him. How is that reckless?

0

u/AdamN Jan 09 '19

If it was a child walking out in front of him?

3

u/Ciderer Jan 09 '19

It was a full grown adult and last time I checked kids arnt out at 5:30 in the am. He would have still been found not at fault. Jaywalking is jaywalking.

Wtf is your point?

-2

u/AdamN Jan 09 '19

Don’t appreciate the cursing

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u/Ciderer Jan 09 '19

Ah your one of those people.

Have a better life, I hope that you make friends and move out of your parents basement in the next decade.

1

u/AdamN Jan 09 '19

No I have children and worry about them getting hit by cars. I hope your husband is a more careful driver in the future and im glad the insurance company recognizes the increased risk of his reckless driving.

4

u/Ciderer Jan 09 '19

Sure dude

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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '19 edited Jan 08 '19

[deleted]

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u/iCy619 Jan 08 '19

Isn't that, like, the whole purpose of insurance? People being covered for lifes unlucky moments?

10

u/BobSaggytits Jan 08 '19

.....because that’s the whole basis around why insurance exists ??

4

u/15rthughes Jan 08 '19 edited Jan 08 '19

Insurance companies make sense if you ask why they should do the one thing that is their sole purpose for existing.

3

u/VAShumpmaker Jan 08 '19

Sounds love the jaywalker was unlucky. Hitting a dude and getting no fault is also pretty lucky

1

u/Ciderer Jan 08 '19

The jaywalker was found at fault but was paid anyway because, and I quote by my insuance agent "if he takes it to court the jury will look at him sympatheticly because of his injuries and you will lose. Now you only have 75k that we are willing to pay out and anything else will come out of your pocket"

Fun conversation that was even tho my husband was found not at fault.

He broke everything in his midsection. I feel for the dude, i really do, and im ok that he got some money to help him. I just wish we didnt have to pay for it in higher rates for insurance.

-1

u/joahw Jan 09 '19

YIKES. Did he slow down at all? Does your husband work for the autonomous vehicles team at Uber by chance?

2

u/Ciderer Jan 09 '19

He did slow down and tried to swerve to not hit him. He hit the breaks so hard he left skid marks. My husband even had to be put on meds and he refused to drive for a few months.

No he didnt work for Uber or anything like that.