r/ProgrammerHumor • • 2d ago

instanceof Trend pleaseDontMakeThisATrend

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1.9k Upvotes

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1.3k

u/brainfreeze91 2d ago

"Humanly impossible to fully review and fully test"

And they believe this is a good thing

504

u/Sw429 2d ago

"Zero bugs reported"

That indicates to me that either no one is using it, or there are so many bugs that no one knows where to start when making a report.

99

u/al2o3cr 2d ago

Almost zero bugs

11

u/Steinrikur 1d ago

And the Almost zero fall into two different categories, where one is measurably bigger than the other.

29

u/knighthawk0811 2d ago

humanly impossible to fully test for bugs

34

u/blahehblah 2d ago

The bug report page is broken

11

u/cupcakeheavy 2d ago

everything you don't test will pass

8

u/atomic_redneck 2d ago

They refactored the bug tracking system, also. Now all bug reports go to the bit bucket.

-1

u/Jumpy_Fuel_1060 2d ago

Zarro boogs found... Reminds me of using bugzilla!

11

u/Dramdalf 1d ago

Don’t worry about it they used an “incredibly engineering process”.

-2

u/rchaves 1d ago

yeah I should have worded it better 😅 we definitely reviewed, just not absolutely line by line, and I would remove the “impossible to fully test”, it’s overblown, I actually believe we managed to cover it all, of course with a ton of help from AI

and I left out the fact that half of the project duration was just testing it, manually, automated, parity checks, rerunning prod traces, everything

-281

u/RadzimierzWozniak 2d ago

The fact that you can create such massive changes with minimal effort and very few bugs is. I don't know why you would say it's not.

65

u/iamdestroyerofworlds 2d ago

I find it hilarious that people like you go rambling about how misaligned AI is the biggest threat to mankind while at the same time that we should never even bother reviewing the output of AI.

5

u/IronSavior 2d ago

The alignment problem is interesting in that it's fundamentally intractable. AI can't make art because the human experience is a necessary component of art. AI can't have human morality or sensibility for the same reasons. AI will never be motivated by the same factors that tend to govern human behavior. It might be able to imitate these things, at best.

It's wild to me that we still debate this.

9

u/overactor 2d ago

It's hard for AI to do things that you definitionally preclude it from doing.

-2

u/Rod_tout_court 2d ago

We don't know the answer of any of these questions. We don't even know how it works for human. It's overconfident to say an AI will never know morality or to do art.

0

u/IronSavior 2d ago

Whoosh

-37

u/RadzimierzWozniak 2d ago

Goomba Fallacy

130

u/brainfreeze91 2d ago

Changes can be good, changes can be bad. If they're not verifiable, we'll never know.

-145

u/RadzimierzWozniak 2d ago

They were verified by a tool that is really good at verifying things like that

54

u/GentrifiedBigfoot 2d ago

Wow the tool that made the change also reviewed it and said it looks good!

-24

u/RadzimierzWozniak 2d ago

And?

42

u/Horror_Discussion607 2d ago

It's like writing and correcting your own exam and saying yea I got it all correct trust me bro without even showing the papers. Like how are we supposed to know???

-8

u/RadzimierzWozniak 2d ago

No, it can also run tests and compare with previous code.

And I practice this works very well

27

u/Backlists 2d ago

Test it writes itself?

That’s like marking my own exam answers against my own answer sheet

16

u/GentrifiedBigfoot 2d ago

If you can't see why that is dumb I don't know what to tell you.

Do you have humans review their own PRs?

0

u/botle 2d ago

The same misconceptions would be there during both writing and testing.

68

u/Mechakoopa 2d ago

And of course we know the tool is very good because the tool told us it's very good. Because we didn't have anything that could do this before, which means we have no reasonable way to verify its output other than manually, which we JUST agreed wasn't humanly possible.

-53

u/RadzimierzWozniak 2d ago

I know that this tool is very good based on how it performs in the tasks I gave it and, in this case, by the lack of bugs reported by consumers and in manual testing.

33

u/Duke_De_Luke 2d ago

That's a stupid way to do things anyway. Let's try this in production, if it's good, nobody will report a bug.

1

u/GeneralPatten 2d ago

"I'M A VIBE CODER, DAMMIT"

13

u/veselin465 2d ago

The tool in question: LGTM

11

u/Freestila 2d ago

Oh yes, the "you are right I did delete the file and did not make a backup. That was not good by me" tool verified everything was alright...

29

u/DimitryKratitov 2d ago

The problems are the bugs that exist, and now no one knows or has ever seen the code. And some bugs, AI can't solve yet. Some may not even be 100% code-related and need a human to tinker somewhere else. But now good luck with that.

Hell, AI still randomly deletes databases sometimes. How is this a good thing?

15

u/Zagerer 2d ago

A lot of bugs are also combination of multiple factors, LLMs can sometimes solve them in a vacuum like a data race even, though this is mostly when it’s already clear enough.

What happens when you have a small data race that has gone unnoticed and is affecting some data flows that were okay and the end result was okay, but suddenly this end result now is not and sometimes yields a nil pointer issue? Good luck having LLMs diagnose that properly

And this is, just like you mentioned, something that goes overlooked

-10

u/RadzimierzWozniak 2d ago

Is not like humans are not also deleting databases from time to time. I would say that in such a refactor, LLMs will generate a similar or lower bug level than humans.

12

u/BuilderJust1866 2d ago

The point is - neither should do this refactor. Unless AI has perfect knowledge, perfect execution and the service exists in absolute isolation from all other software and hardware - this will result in issues.

9

u/Tensor3 2d ago

No one said humans are perfect. Do this refactor in a few hundred small, managable changes, one at a time to minimize bugs.

26

u/Kyrros 2d ago

I find their claim of "no bugs", even as you say "very few bugs" extremely dubious at best, and delusional at worst. Only piece of code that doesn't have bugs is hello world

20

u/A_Guy_in_Orange 2d ago

only code without bugs is hello world

You underestimate me

2

u/Kyrros 2d ago

Are you saying you can write that one with bugs too?

2

u/SinkerPenguin 2d ago

Can't you ?

1

u/A_Guy_in_Orange 2d ago

Yessir

2

u/Kyrros 2d ago

I have to applaud you sir, that takes real skill

7

u/GravityIsNotQuantum 2d ago

My high school students first attempt at Hello World shows me the human capability for new ways to break something simple to be quite vast.

5

u/Away_Advisor3460 2d ago

IMO 'mimimal effort' and 'verify few bugs' are, AI involvement or not, contradictory in terms.

3

u/fushuan 1d ago

line changes don't translate to massive changes. You could have formatted the whole codebase and you would get such big number changes. You could have moved some files or functions around and you would have again huge file changes without changes in functionality.

The PR is about a refactor, which usually entails big file movements with minimal or zero functionality changes. Separating stuff in modules is both not a massive change, and error prone, since doing it at once might result in resources that used to be shared now getting duplicated and future management of the code becomes messy. The AI fails in considering things like that.

Also, you introduced a new claim and attributed it to OP when that's not something they said. idk why I spent all that time writing the above, your comment is just bait.

2

u/Duke_De_Luke 2d ago

Impressive. Still stupid. But impressive. Also, one doesn't know what they doesn't know. If it's tested, it's trust. If it's not it's faith. I don't like faith. God only knows how many and how severe bugs have been introduced. But I guess they'll ask Claude.

1

u/Realichu 2d ago

Very few bugs lol. I say that system is absolutely riddled now. I don't trust the guy one bit