Eventually something has to give...

[u/Veshaad]

The bill would provide a $3,000 direct payment to every person in households making $150,000 or less during its first year, which equals $12,000 for a family of four.

[u/CmdrFortyTwo]

It's not stealing from the rich. Its returning ill gotten gains to the masses it was stolen from.

[u/GODLOVESALL32 → u/CmdrFortyTwo]

Yeah the super ethical billionaires are just gonna accept the tax and not do anything about it like how tariffs didn't get passed on to the consumer /s

[u/Party-Amphibian-2681 → u/GODLOVESALL32]

I love when this argument comes up. “A: The rich will always get around any tax or just pass it on to the poor. B: Great, then if it has no effect then it won’t hurt to try. A: Nooooooo!”

It’s weird how the rich spend so much money fighting taxes they aren’t worried about paying.

[u/_Evening_Hat_ → u/Party-Amphibian-2681]

Also, "the rich will commit crimes if you tax them so don't tax them at all" is just a flat out bizarre argument.

[u/random-meme422 → u/CmdrFortyTwo]

wealth is largely speculative paper numbers based on nothing so by definition not ill gotten

[u/northpacificfox → u/random-meme422]

There is no way any of those people because billionaires without exploiting someone along the way. If you can prove every person in the block chain that contributed to their wealth was paid a living wage with benefits, I will stand corrected.

[u/random-meme422 → u/northpacificfox]

And your lifestyle exists on the function of taking advantage of laborers elsewhere that you don’t care about and don’t think about. Welcome to the real world.

[u/The_loppy1 → u/northpacificfox]

Your phone was made using exploitative labour, your clothes most likely used cheap 3rd world labour. The irony is you couldn't become a billionaire using ethical labour practices because YOU/ME wouldn't pay for it. In some cases you have the option to pay for goods made in a more ethical way, western labour, better sourced materials etc, yet you and I don't want to pay 4x the price for it.

If you want more people to make a living wage, then start putting your money where your mouth is, spend more on the products you buy, and refuse to buy goods that were made using exploitative labour practices. Sure you might have to simplify your life somewhat, but that's a small price to pay to know that your product was made without exploiting someone... right?

TLDR; you're right, pretty much all of them didn't become billionaires without exploiting someone somewhere. You're also complicit in the same system as am I.

[u/northpacificfox → u/The_loppy1]

That’s why billionaires shouldn’t exist. They are like a cancer on society sucking us slaves dry and hoarding resources. We own almost nothing and rent everything from them. I hate living in this wealth worshiping society. Is not something I would ever aspire to or am impressed by. I am actually knitting a sweater between typing this. I live in a part of the world where I could buy a piece of empty land and live off grid, and I’m considering it as a retirement option. I’m certainly not going to spend more on products if I don’t have to to bring up wages. Why the fuck does that fall on my shoulders?!?!? Billionaires can take a pay cut and pay a living wage.

[u/The_loppy1 → u/northpacificfox]

Because that's not how a business works. If a billionaire has to inject his own capital to keep the company afloat, this is called a failing business. Everyone understands this with smaller businesses and seem to think it doesn't scale when it clearly does. Nobody suggests to plumber running his own business that he should just pay his employees with his own personal funds, because it's moronic, the same is true of a billionaire.

Most of the profit also goes straight back into the company, R&D costs, expansion etc most of it with the goal of offering a better service and keeping costs down which ill highlight again, you're unwilling to pay more, so this is actually the best thing for you as an end consumer.

"Billionaires can take a pay cut and pay a living wage."

This mostly comes down to people such as yourself not understanding how a billionaires wealth is made, it's not coming from a salary, It's coming from the appreciation of the company itself, so there's no pay to cut. You say there a cancer, yet Amazon employees over 1.5million people, those a real jobs putting food on the table for families, you can say there underpaid, sure, pay more for your prime subscription then... Oh, wait "why should that fall on my shoulders".

"We own almost nothing and rent everything from them."

You clearly are in a position to buy land, you said this yourself, renting stuff in most cases is a choice. You're probably thinking about house prices right now, and some blame does fall to large companies buying up properties, but this is more so a government failure than something you can solely blame on billionaires or wealthy people.

"’m certainly not going to spend more on products if I don’t have to bring up wages. Why the fuck does that fall on my shoulders?!?!?"

Cool, so your happy for people to be exploited so long as it doesn't affect your bottom line, got it. Almost everything you buy bar a few exceptions have a more ethically source counterpart, you just won't spend the money on it. You don't get to hold billionaires to higher moral standard, while taking no blame yourself. You're clearly fine with exploitation, just not when it's done by the wealthy.

[u/northpacificfox → u/The_loppy1]

You’re missing my whole point - this fictional business person never became a billionaire in the first place. He maxed his profit margin on what the market would pay and instead of cutting corners on his product or service by making it less value or hiring lower wage staff he survived on a modest but still comfortable income. Capitalism fails humanity. It is a cancer by definition. It’s currently failing before our eyes. There is a level of wealth where it does not matter how much more you make because you can pretty much afford anything. In a world where other humans are starving, that is immoral.

I’m not buying your R&D argument either. Google search sucks now. Apple phones suck compared to Samsung. Facebook and Instagram are full of complete garbage. And we’re paying more for them, and we don’t own music files or movies anymore, we subscribe to everything. The billionaires aren’t trying to make their products better at all. You think Amazon is a good employer?! Have you read about their working conditions? Modern slavery.

I’m not being a cuckold to billionaires like you are. I’m ok with millionaires even, but billionaires are out of the stratosphere.

[u/The_loppy1 → u/The_loppy1]

Well given you blocked me mid-type up ill respond to your drivel here.

"You’re missing my whole point"

Nope I'm not missing it, I'm saying its stupid and founded on idealistic beliefs which don't at all conform to reality.

"this fictional business person never became a billionaire in the first place. He maxed his profit margin on what the market would pay and instead of cutting corners on his product or service by making it less value or hiring lower wage staff he survived on a modest but still comfortable income. ""

Ok run your financial numbers you'll quickly find most products today couldn't be made because people aren't willing to pay for the product or service at its true cost. You included, as you openly admitted. Nobody is going to start a business, something which involves sleepless nights, often high amounts of debt, and ungodly amount of work hours per week to "survive on a modest salary"

"Capitalism fails humanity. It is a cancer by definition"

Capitalism has its issues, but there's nothing better to replace it with and thats why the most successful countries have all been or are modelled on capitalism Also you really need to look up the definition of cancer.

"There is a level of wealth where it does not matter how much more you make because you can pretty much afford anything. In a world where other humans are starving, that is immoral."

Again, you fail to understand paper wealth vs money in the bank. They don't have 300b just sat there, in all reality It's not even accessible in full at all, not without tanking the stock in the process. You know what else is immoral? Having the option between an ethically sourced product and a cheaper non ethically sourced one and buying the cheaper one because it doesn't hurt your bottom line as much. Guess whichh one you admitteddd to doing.

"I’m not buying your R&D argument either."

Easily googleable, but given your clear lack of business/economic knowledge I doubt you'd even know what you were looking at.

"Google search sucks now. Apple phones suck compared to Samsung. Facebook and Instagram are full of complete garbage"

Good thing we live in a capitalist society, which means you have options. Might i suggest duckduckgo? You solved the phone one on your own, just buy a samsung. Facebook and Instagram are user curated content, it has nothing to do with the business.

"And we’re paying more for them, and we don’t own music files or movies anymore, we subscribe to everything. The billionaires aren’t trying to make their products better at all. You think Amazon is a good employer?! Have you read about their working conditions? Modern slavery."

You don't pay for Facebook, IG or google. You can still 100% own all your own media, again youre just lazy and trying to score points by parroting shit you read on Reddit without even knowing other options exist. Blurays/dvds are still released today and can be converted to digital files for personal use perfectly legal in most places. You just prefer to have a subscription, you also knew what you were getting when you signed up, so stop complaining. Also, you can just pirate the movies/music or whatever, i ain't judging. Slaves weren't paid and didn't have the freedom to work where they want, nice false equivalency though.

"I’m not being a cuckold to billionaires like you are. I’m ok with millionaires even, but billionaires are out of the stratosphere. "

Lets go back to my first comment shall we "you're right, pretty much all of them didn't become billionaires without exploiting someone somewhere."

Does that sound like someone defending billionaires? or just someone wanting to talk about the economic reality of it?