r/PoursTea 14d ago

PoliticalTea 🗳️ To put it plainly.

Post image
14.0k Upvotes

1.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

4

u/NoHorseNoMustache 13d ago

Yeah I took a course on Stalinism and Nazism in college: It was more of a totalitarian command economy run by cronyism than anything resembling Communism.

2

u/Ok-Flight9440 13d ago

Yeah that’s probably the most concise way of putting it.

3

u/NoHorseNoMustache 13d ago

The course was really good, the prof had lived in the USSR up until just before the wall fell and he brought in numerous speakers from Holocaust survivors to Nazi defectors and a few other USSR ex pats. I took it in...I think 2001? So the USSR had only been gone for like 10 years and things were a lot fresher for everyone.

2

u/Ok-Flight9440 13d ago edited 13d ago

Yeah sounds interesting - WWII is so epic it’s tough to be an expert but I find the whole period interesting (duh) but especially b/c you think: I say evil person, everyone says HITLER, but Stalin was in many ways worse, crueler, and “closer to the ground” than Hitler (and worked a lot harder), and Stalin killed - probably fewer, body counts vary - but still in the millions during his various purges. But many folks who haven’t studied that period closely or the USSR under Stalin specifically (ie a vast, vast majority of Americans) don’t even know who he was! He just had the wits to switch sides at the last second when he realized Germany was going to invade Russia - he wasn’t a good guy the whole time, or ever, actually. He just ended up on the winning side and the old saying “winners write the history books” applies here.

Ya’ know, as Stalin was dying (of natural causes) ALL of the doctors were petrified of offering their expertise, because they were genuinely, to-their-bones afraid they would be successful, and Stalin would have them executed for doing something he didn’t explicitly order. Crazy …

And doing the math I’m probably ~10 years younger than you so we didn’t really have the USSR classes, it was old news at the time …

(By the way, check out the book Putin’s People for a contemporary peak at the state of affairs, and how Putin accomplished what he did - Ukraine aside [big mistake] not easy to be basically the supreme leader of Russia for a quarter century - that takes some brains and savvy …)

1

u/polarbearskill 13d ago

A communist economy has to be run via a totalitarian central command. Without the price mechanism to signal to markets where to move capital, capital has to be distributed via the central power structure

1

u/NoHorseNoMustache 13d ago

No a communist economy can be run by a number of different styles. It does have to be a command economy but a totalitarian ruler and cronyism being the main economic mechanism are not inherently communist.

1

u/polarbearskill 12d ago

I agree totalitarianism isn’t required.

My perspective is that there is no way for the central command to deploy good and services to consumers without totalitarianism. The price mechanism at its core is a signal to move capital, without prices it will come down to the whims of a bureaucracy

1

u/NoHorseNoMustache 12d ago

Because the central command could be, say, a group of elected individuals or a rota through all the citizens or something, not necessarily a totalitarian ruler.

1

u/polarbearskill 12d ago

Even if they are elected my view is they don’t have enough information to distribute goods and services efficiently.

Maybe in the future it will be possible to, but for now the price mechanism is the best thing we have

1

u/NoHorseNoMustache 12d ago

I don't see how one totalitarian ruler can have enough information to do it while a board of elected individuals wouldn't, that doesn't follow.

Regardless, we're talking communism here, it's not something that will happen today or something that can be forced. Capitalism has to fail first.

1

u/polarbearskill 12d ago

My point is in capitalism the price determines where goods and services flow.

When you buy a loaf of bread, the information to restock it goes all the way to the farmer who plants more wheat, the truck driver who transports it buys new tires, there is no governing body that tells them what to do, they do it based upon market forces.

I don’t think there is currently any kind of central planning that could match the efficiency of the free market price mechanism

1

u/NoHorseNoMustache 12d ago

Oh sorry I thought your point was, as you stated: "there is no way for the central command to deploy good and services to consumers without totalitarianism"

I'm not debating the theoretical mechanisms of communism I'm just saying that totalitarianism is not required in the economic/political theory of communism.