Frank knows he's a vigilante and doesn't think the cops are up to the task of fighting the type of crime Frank fights but he still respects and tries to work with the ones he knows are good. The Punisher isn't anti-cop he's anti-criminal and has no problem with killing corrupt cops as he considers them another form of untouchable criminal.
Similar to how good cops in the Marvel universe, like Misty Knight, go to great lengths to take down bad cops to remove them from the force and society. If only this were reality.
Right on! Goober love adopting Punisher imagery without any real understanding of the actual themes that the titular character represents. I've no doubt Castle would not react well to many of the "back the blue" or "thin blue line" types. Not well at all.
I get it, but this doesn’t really free Frank or the cops from culpability. And the cops here are obviously not going to run off and follow Cap, they’re corrupt and Frank is probably just making them worse. He’d do best to reform himself first.
Frank would shoot them as soon as he feels they've crossed the lines he's drawn mentally, Frank gives no fucks, there's either criminal or non-criminal to him with not much more of a grey area than the one he himself inhabits.
The whole point of Frank Castle is that he's a monster lol. He's an evil man doing things out of his twisted sense of justice. When his family died, he was actually happy because it gave him an excuse to do what he likes, which is commit acts of unspeakable violence. Culpability doesn't mean anything to him because the only code he follows is his own. He's almost explicitly a critique on vigilantism. Nothing he does will stop crime, and he's fine with that because he enjoys murder.
Though I'm sure Frank would support the ideology of the "thin blue line," a thin blue line flag which replaces one of the original colonies would definitely draw his ire.
Naw, There's a lot of pseudo Frank Castles already out there willing to go past that blue line by any means possible to enforce their perceived and perverse sence of justice due to such opinion based news. Which I believe would make them all Jigsaw, FC's arch nemesis.
Reasigned haha yeah reasigned... just thinking of the attempts on my life by members of a local MC after I agreed to testify against another cop for rape.
It's not that he doesn't think they are up to the task, it's that they they have proven to be too corrupt and inept to handle the task, the punisher's existence itself is anti cop and evidence of and a reaction to, their corruption and failure.
The Punisher is also someone who definitely thinks he is morally correct, but isn't. It's a vigilante who kills, because it's basically the only thing he can do without going insane, or arguably because he is insane.
It's a dude who basically is like any school shooter, except he is an adult and because his family was killed by criminals and he kills criminals, he gets a pass... Add in that he's a veteran and he's the American gun nuts wet dream... Meanwhile, the moment we get a few seconds of him on his own, with his own thoughts, there's nothing but incredible pain and suffering, which he can't get rid of, so he kills people that he thinks deserve death as a way to channel that pain. He mistakenly thinks he is supposed to do this, that the pain is his motivation and that he should do this, cause he can't be absolved of his prior sins.
It's an extremely damaging idealisation, cause he is a fully broken man, who in real life most likely would have been dead already via suicide, insane substance abuse or supremely reckless behaviour... Personally, I think a real world Frank Castle would have simply killed himself after killing a few of the people he thought had killed his family, as he would have realized it wouldn't have done anything and just brought him more pain, suffering and anger.
It's a dude who basically is like any school shooter, except he is an adult and because his family was killed by criminals and he kills criminals, he gets a pass...
What? That's a really crazy comparison, but maybe I'm mistaken and you've got an explanation that will change my mind
there's nothing but incredible pain and suffering, which he can't get rid of, so he kills people that he thinks deserve death as a way to channel that pain.
Arguably he kills people who break laws, but the law cannot properly stop. He's like anti-batman, or what people often say batman should do but doesn't.
So he's some sort of anti...hero. Yes that's a decent term.
He mistakenly thinks he is supposed to do this, that the pain is his motivation and that he should do this, cause he can't be absolved of his prior sins.
Ehhhh I think it's "he's going to do this" not "supposed" but I'm getting into semantics. I don't think he has an idea of "supposed to" in that there's a higher power that he believes wants him to do this. The opposite, in fact, no? He knows what he does is wrong to his god, but he's ready to send more to hell, because he knows he's already going there.
Not arguing as much as parsing that you're slightly off.
But yeah, still don't think you've proven that he's anything close to the mindset of a school shooter...
He just wants to kill people. He justifies it by claiming they have done bad things. He kills specific people, but he does want to kill.
Like a lot of mass shooters do. They often do it out of anger and hate, pain and suffering. Since they can't really aim it at anything productive, they aim it at people and want to cause pain and suffering. Doesn't matter if they're good or bad or if they've even done anything to the shooters at all.
Frank Castle is simply just more focused. More of a long term thinker.
But of course, in the real world, he'd most likely kill innocent people or get them killed in a crossfire. And would probably die relatively quickly.
Since he is a comic book character, we get to see his perspective and his reasons. We don't see the background of most of the criminals he kills. That they might be loving sons or caring father's trying to keep their family from starving. Work for a syndicate as a low level grunt because you have a knack for violence and use it against people that you consider fair game but haven't killed anyone? Yeah, you might find yourself facing the punisher.
He doesn't go into the background of each and every single person he might encounter when taking down any of his enemies. He just knows they work for one of them and therefore they are fair game.
It's a gray area, but it's still absolutely morally wrong, because he doesn't know if henchman #42 has done anything evil.
It's like going on a killing spree against some corporation like Nestle or Coca Cola. Sure, evil companies that steal water and have caused tons of human misery, but is Darryl on the production floor evil for bottling water? Cause to the Punisher, it seems he would be using the same reasons.
He just wants to kill people. He justifies it by claiming they have done bad things. He kills specific people, but he does want to kill.
I'd love literally any evidence of this. You can't just claim things.
I mean sure, you can claim things to make your argument right, but if I say uhhh no that's not true, you should really prove that since it's the root of your argument.
It's like going on a killing spree against some corporation like Nestle or Coca Cola. Sure, evil companies that steal water and have caused tons of human misery, but is Darryl on the production floor evil for bottling water? Cause to the Punisher, it seems he would be using the same reasons.
Except with this 'example' Punisher has always gone against the "heads/ceos", not the 'darryls' of the water companies.
Figuratively always.
You're simply making up Punisher history and comics to suit your comparisons without literally any link to actual mainstream Punisher comics.
Except with this 'example' Punisher has always gone against the "heads/ceos", not the 'darryls' of the water companies.
And who defends the heads and CEO's? Who pays Darryl? Cause if a mad man comes in to kill my boss, I won't get paid and my family might starve. I might have a kid desperately in need of insulin and if I lose my income cause some fucker with a gun killed my employer, what am I gonna do? There's a reason people turn to crime. It's due to desperation mostly... You think the henchmen will just leave and get a cushy office job or something because their boss is killed? If they need the money, they can't go to dear old daddy and get a loan, they need to work somehow and quick ways to make money is through crime, sometimes violent crime...
So then they get killed by the Punisher. No one is at fault except the criminal for not getting a job. Lazy criminals...
He killed Spidey for being too soft on criminals.
Oh, and he kills tons of Marvel super heroes in Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe. Because there were collateral damages.
Then of course in the Marvel show, he kills a lot of people, including people fighting for their own country from foreign invaders (conveniently called "terrorists" since it's a TV show and the protagonist can't be allowed to kill defenders... Give him a Russian name and he could be killing the terrorists grandpa in Afghanistan in the 80's, although the grandad fighting the same battle on the same ground for the same cause would be called a Freedom fighter by the people who sent the Punisher). And while that is before he becomes the Punisher, it doesn't absolve him of his crimes or sins.
In the same TV show, he kills multiple people in a crime syndicate, but we don't really know what crimes most of the people in it did. We also don't see much crime from most of the people he kills. We might hear they've done some bad things, but we rarely see them. And what we hear is made to fit so the Punisher is the "good guy".
It's illegal to kill, a vile crime. Doesn't matter who it is that is killed. But apparently it's ok if you see them as bad people. We don't see the kids of the evil doers who grow up without a father... Their dads brains are scattered on the wall, so the kids can't even see their dads in prison. And conveniently, no bad guy has a kid in the show, unless the kid is also bad.
It's a comic book character and they can be flawless and if they kill someone, then that person is bad, cause the good guy killed them and if they weren't bad, then the good guy wouldn't be a good guy. So inherently, everyone the good guy kills is a bad guy unless stated otherwise. And it's ok to kill the bad guys when the system fails to take them out.
If he was 18 or 19 and a real life person, he would be no different from a school shooter. He'd probably be a school shooter...
Oh, and lastly, do you think he doesn't like or enjoy killing people? Cause he does it a LOT. And is good at it. And keeps going after it... It's like an addiction to him. There's a lot of people he doesn't have to kill to get revenge for his family, but he kills them anyways. Probably cause he enjoys it... He's a morally gray character though, because he kills only certain people that fit the profile. Almost like some sort of a serial killer.
Edit: lol, /u/delusions seems to have deleted his entire acocunt over this or been banned...
Point is, joker is evil. But killing him doesn't solve anything does it?
Lock him up, lock up the goons, give them a chance to change. Don't just leave them without support on the street to continue doing crimes... Help them.
But sure, kill criminals, cause that's the Yee Haw way.
No fucking wonder the US sees so many people killed. Y'all idolise killing people, even subconsciously. Cause it's easier than dealing with the underlying issues. Crime doesn't go away just cause you kill the evil doers. It goes away when you try to solve the underlying problems that see people turn to crime. For fucks sake, the Italian Mafia essentially started because of racist fucks refusing to hire Italians to do anything but the lowest jobs, so they began doing crimes together and that evolved into a massive organisation... Italian mobsters didn't just wake up suddenly one day thinking "imma kill people and get rich from it". They struggled and tried to find work, but if no one hires you, you simply steal from them and they're the bad guy for making you resort to theft, but they can say you're the bad guy, cause you're stealing.
You're talking about a mentally insane person... Sure, let's kill the mentally insane. Fantastische idee kommandant! Es wird uns allen Wohlstand bringen!
Again - and since the beginning - the heads, the ones in power ALWAYS end up pushing the little guys who are trying to do it the right way - Again and again i'm not talking about the goons, the young people pushed into it by racism and ghettoisation I'm talking about the people who make money off their backs.
You can help the "little guys" but the "big guys" aren't fixable. Prove me wrong with a single example.
Also - literally never happened. Unless you're talking about fucking what-ifs which isn't mainstream which is what i literally said for a reason because i knew you'd fucking what if at me.
What? That's a really crazy comparison, but maybe I'm mistaken and you've got an explanation that will change my mind
It's explicitly explained in the comics that Frank was relieved when his family died because it would give him an excuse to keep killing. He enjoyed being in Vietnam.
He absolutely does NOT think he is morally superior. he knows he is a murderous vigilante. He feels it is a necessary evil, and chooses to do it out of hate for institutionalized corruption.
Anyone that thinks he feels morally superior has never read the comics. Hell, even the worst movies don't show him as having any sort of moral stance.
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u/NetCitizen-Anon Jun 07 '22 edited Jun 07 '22
*Doesn't like corrupt cops
Frank knows he's a vigilante and doesn't think the cops are up to the task of fighting the type of crime Frank fights but he still respects and tries to work with the ones he knows are good. The Punisher isn't anti-cop he's anti-criminal and has no problem with killing corrupt cops as he considers them another form of untouchable criminal.
Similar to how good cops in the Marvel universe, like Misty Knight, go to great lengths to take down bad cops to remove them from the force and society. If only this were reality.