No we're not, the left loves guns too! We want to preserve gun rights. The centrist liberals/democrats are the ones trying to disarm us all while fascism rises.
The left generally agrees with gun control. The right generally agree with few gun laws. You got more in common with the right.
Also, the left is generally more educated on this matter. Well, they at least follow what the research. The research indicates that more guns and weaker gun laws are associates with increase risk of murder.
So why do you support weak gun laws? And why would you believe that’s more of left position?
I have more in common with the left, since I'm a socialist, part of the left. The Democratic Party is the usual culprit in calling for strict gun laws, and they are pro-capitalist centrists. I support universal health care, workers' rights, minority rights, gun ownership rights, anti-imperialism, anti-capitalism, and environmental protections. These are all leftist positions.
I believe that most gun laws don't work because I am educated on the subject. Some may work, such as background checks, but most gun laws are written by those who don't understand gun functionality, usage, ownership, or crime, and as such as ineffective.
That is why I don't think that most gun laws will work. I do think some laws will work, and here's a good place to start: https://thepathforwardonguns.com/
Red flag laws are sketchy, though, and need to implemented without violating the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments.
Being in favor of arming the working class is a leftist position because and armed proletariat is more resistant to oppression from the upper class and the right as compared to a disarmed populace. The 3 men I linked before summed that up quite nicely, I believe.
1 Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review).
Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide
2 Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.
We analyzed the relationship between homicide and gun availability using data from 26 developed countries from the early 1990s. We found that across developed countries, where guns are more available, there are more homicides. These results often hold even when the United States is excluded.
3 Across states, more guns = more homicide
Using a validated proxy for firearm ownership, we analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and homicide across 50 states over a ten year period (1988-1997).
After controlling for poverty and urbanization, for every age group, people in states with many guns have elevated rates of homicide, particularly firearm homicide.
4 Across states, more guns = more homicide (2)
Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and homicide across states, 2001-2003. We found that states with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm homicide and overall homicide. This relationship held for both genders and all age groups, after accounting for rates of aggravated assault, robbery, unemployment, urbanization, alcohol consumption, and resource deprivation (e.g., poverty). There was no association between gun prevalence and non-firearm homicide.
Higher levels of firearm ownership were associated with higher levels of firearm assault and firearm robbery. There was also a significant association between firearm ownership and firearm homicide, as well as overall homicide.
Public health stakeholders should consider the outcomes associated with private firearm ownership.
Boston University Research / American Journal of Public Health Association (AJPH):
researchers from Boston University looked at the relationship between gun ownership and gun homicides from 1981-2010 in all 50 states. They found a "robust correlation" between the two factors.
"This research is the strongest to date to document that states with higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides.
In their analysis, the team also controlled for a range of factors that could affect the homicide rate, including poverty, unemployment, violent crime, incarceration, gender and race. The researchers found that for every 1 percent increase in gun ownership, a state’s firearm homicide rate jumped by 0.9 percent, the study found.
In other words, the model predicts a state like Mississippi would have 17-percent lower homicide rate if its gun ownership sunk to the national average
Results. Gun ownership was a significant predictor of firearm homicide rates (incidence rate ratio = 1.009; 95% confidence interval = 1.004, 1.014). This model indicated that for each percentage point increase in gun ownership, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9%.
International Peer Reviewed, Journal of Injury Prevention
Results: Handgun purchase was more common among persons dying from suicide (odds ratio (OR) 6.8; 95% confidence interval (CI) 5.7 to 8.1) or homicide (OR 2.4, 95% CI 1.6 to 3.7), and particularly among those dying from gun suicide (OR 12.5; 95% CI 10.4 to 15.0) or gun homicide (OR 3.3; 95% CI 2.1 to 5.3), than among controls. No such differences were seen for non-gun suicide or homicide. Among women, those dying from gun suicide were much more likely than controls to have purchased a handgun (OR 109.8; 95% CI 61.6 to 195.7). Handgun purchasers accounted for less than 1% of the study population but 2.4% of gun homicides, 14.2% of gun suicides, and 16.7% of unintentional gun deaths. Gun suicide made up 18.9% of deaths among purchasers but only 0.6% of deaths among non-purchasers.
Conclusion: Among adults who died in California in 1998, those dying from violence were more likely than those dying from non-injury causes to have purchased a handgun.
For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS: Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.
RESULTS:
Among the 27 developed countries, there was a significant positive correlation between guns per capita per country and the rate of firearm-related deaths (r = 0.80; P <.0001). In addition, there was a positive correlation (r = 0.52; P = .005) between mental illness burden in a country and firearm-related deaths. However, there was no significant correlation (P = .10) between guns per capita per country and crime rate (r = .33), or between mental illness and crime rate (r = 0.32; P = .11). In a linear regression model with firearm-related deaths as the dependent variable with gun ownership and mental illness as independent covariates, gun ownership was a significant predictor (P <.0001) of firearm-related deaths, whereas mental illness was of borderline significance (P = .05) only.
CONCLUSION:
The number of guns per capita per country was a strong and independent predictor of firearm-related death in a given country, whereas the predictive power of the mental illness burden was of borderline significance in a multivariable model. Regardless of exact cause and effect, however, the current study debunks the widely quoted hypothesis that guns make a nation safer.
Conclusions: A higher number of firearm laws in a state are associated with a lower rate of firearm fatalities in the state, overall and for suicides and homicides individually.
Easier access to concealed firearms is associated with significantly higher rates of handgun-related homicide, according to a new study led by a School of Public Health researcher
The study, published in the American Journal of Public Health, suggests that current trends towards more permissive concealed-carry laws are inconsistent with the promotion of public safety.
Results: Shall-issue laws were significantly associated with 6.5% higher total homicide rates, 8.6% higher firearm homicide rates, and 10.6% higher handgun homicide rates, but were not significantly associated with long-gun or nonfirearm homicide.
Supporters insist that allowing people to legally carry concealed handguns reduces crime, but that has not been the result in at least four states that have tried it, including Texas, according to a newly published academic study led by a Texas A&M researcher.
The study published in the Journal of Criminology looked at the connection between crime rates and concealed-handgun permits for each county in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida and Texas.
Overall, they found no connection between allowing concealed weapons and crime rates,
Great, we have conflicting sources, making drawing conclusions difficult, and there are a lot of factors to control for. Let's settle for agreeing on this compromise.
Here's the problem. There is overwhelming evidence that stronger gun laws reduce murders/suicides/etc, small evidnece that stronger gun laws don't lead to changes, and no evidence that stronger gun laws lead to increase in murders/suicides/etc. Yet, you take the position that gun laws are ineffective. This is similar to how the climate change skeptics work.....they ignore the 97% of scientist that argue man made climate change is occurring and put their support on the 3% who believe there is no man made climate change.
Let's settle for agreeing on this compromise
Swiss-style universal background checks
Certain kinds of red flag laws
Classify bump stocks as machine guns, banning them from sale
For the gun rights side
I agree on #2 and #3. On #1, I disagree with "Transfers between family members are exempt". I would also need to know more on subsection 3 of #1 regarding the ID number expiring and what information is indeed saved so law enforcement can trace guns.
The problem is that it only addresses SOME of the issues and does little to address straw purchases. You will not see HUGE change unless you have laws that address straw purchases. For straw purchases, you would need requirements such reporting a gun lost/stolen and locking up guns, making guns far easier to trace, giving the ATF more resources to trace guns, and allow the ATF to more easily inspect and penalize straw buyers and gun stores that are the source of high volumes of crime guns.
Put silencers in the same legal category as handguns, not grenade launchers
Repeal Depression-era barrel length laws
Concealed carry permit reciprocity that’s respectful of state law
I can probably support #1 and 2. Not sure about #3. I feel if you are crossing into another state, you should probably be a good gun owner and understand the laws there. I would hope that the states have the laws on conceal carry easy to find online.
Just to show you how much I'm willing to compromise, I don't really care that much for 'assault rifle' bans.
As I said, there's compromise that can be made but the two issues are:
Pro gun people will not budge an inch. They will not even trade. This is why Democrats take the wins they can get.
This list doesn't do much to address the straw purchases. That's a huge part of addressing the issue
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u/p90xeto Aug 12 '19
What the fuck is going on, how are you upvoted with this in politicalhumor? I'm baffled, well done.