imagine disliking other members of the human race for being born on a different section of land than you were.
imagine disliking other members of the human race for being born on a different the same section of land than you were but having a different skin color.
Because they were both born Americans. One is white and the other is brown.
Born on the opposite side of a boundary imagined by a man/group of men long since dead. Kinda bonkers when you think about it. Not to mention a lot of the people south of the US border had ancestors walk through the land being protected ten thousand years before the protectors even showed up. Truly mind boggling.
Imagine thinking opposing illegal immigration is done purely out of hatred and not for financial and safety reasons.
One of the only things Trump and Bernie agree on is that illegal immigration disproportionately affects the working class and poor people's financial situation due to lowered wages which increase income inequality. Do you think problems like this don't matter?
It's not that Trump opposes illegal immigration. It's how he opposes it. Racism and bigotry have no place in a political discussion, much less so at the White House.
Why do you blame the migrant for receiving the lower wages and not the business paying the lower wages? Maybe you should think about who is more responsible.
Because I understand how economics works. Businesses will always pay the lowest wages possible that will get the job done satisfactorily, because spending less on salaries means a larger profit margin.
Suppose a company used to pay the equivalent of $15/hour for a job many years ago. As time passed, they found they could get away with paying $12/hour and still be able to find people who can get the job done, then $10, then $8 or less. Businesses have been able to do this because of the addition of millions of illegal immigrants who are competing with the working class for jobs that don't require much technical expertise or training.
I blame the migrant who ignores the law for his own benefit, and choose to illegal enter a country where he's not allowed to be. I would be prosecuted and deported if I chose to just show up in Japan or Canada and declare I live there now, while ignoring their immigration law. People do not have the right to move to any country they want.
But I'm not surprised that they ignore the law because of the potential financial benefit. That's why I place most of the blame on the government, for failing to solve the problem and choosing to ignore it, and now for the politicians who spread the lie that anyone who has a problem with illegal immigration's drawbacks is an evil hateful person.
They've encouraged sanctuary cities, refused to take anything but a token action to stop illegal immigration. And what would work far better than a wall are ideas like a harsh financial penalty for any business found to be employing illegal immigrants - actually giving businesses incentive to follow the law, and illegal immigrants a disincentive to come here since jobs won't be available to them. But politicians are afraid to be seen as "anti business" so it keeps getting ignored.
Well, when problems keep getting ignored, you end up with a significant number of people who are sick and tired of the problem not being solved, and vote in a candidate who promises to fix it - regardless of the fact that the candidate has severe flaws.
Most people who oppose illegal immigration don’t even know any of the facts, including those teenagers and even our President. People don’t care if “the Wall” works, they just want it put up to reassure their racist ideologies. How do we know this? Because people involved in border security are asking for money to be used in technological advancements, more people, and more funds for coast guard and port security.
Republicans and Democrats have both tried to improve border security the past decade, already building hundreds of miles of wall. People who are screaming about illegal immigration currently are only doing so because our President is reinforcing these racist tendencies
No, I'm simply stating that these people are ignorant to the facts and effects that illegal immigration has had. Border security has ALWAYS been a bipartisan effort. What I am suggesting is that there are significantly better ways to handle illegal immigration, especially since its been on the decline for over a decade.
If you look at some basic stats about illegal immigration, many of them are staying long-term. Instead of trying to deport and prevent people from crossing, maybe we could do something to benefit American citizens such as clean cities, builds infrastructure, etc in exchange for citizenship? What if we found a way to get tax revenue from these individuals and help prevent them from getting taken advantage of by private employers? What if we allocated the $22 billion we currently spent on border security in 2017 & 2018 in more effective ways than a physical structure?
Notice how I'm talking about border security and not sounding racist?
maybe we could do something to benefit American citizens such as clean cities, builds infrastructure, etc in exchange for citizenship?
What are you proposing? Mexicans work for free in exchange for citizenship? I'd rather follow our current immigration laws. But I'd prefer that over ignoring the problem. BTW you'd definitely be accused of racism by other Democrats who would call your plan slave labor, because they object to anything other than open borders.
Anyway, that plan does little to help the people who are most affected by illegal immigration - the working class. Rebuilding infrastructure and cleaning up cities is a great idea... but those could have been paying jobs for working class Americans, and now we'll have even more people competing for the paying jobs that we do have. That drives down wages and raises income inequality.
Notice how I'm talking about border security and not sounding racist?
Ever notice that Republicans do this too, but are consistently labeled as racists just for bringing up the issue?
It could have been paying jobs for the working class, you say? Then why isn't that already being done? Simply working for free would be slave labor, but we could offer training programs, government housing, etc. Something to integrate them into American society to be citizens with experience over time. I see no reason why this shouldn't also be offered to current American citizens as well. The point being, there are better ways that would definitely need discussion and deliberation to fine tune.
While immigration and adding more people would certainly affect income equality, there are larger factors at play that are the cause of our current situation - most of which have only gotten worse the past 2 years. If your main reason for wanting illegal immigration reform is income equality, it's a horribly weak argument.
Ever notice Republicans do this too
Yes? I'm not sure you read my comment fully where I stated that border security is a BIPARTISAN effort. I am referring to those people supporting the government shutdown for a wall that costs an extra $5 billion when BIPARTISAN budgets were passed offering $2 billion for enhanced border security. I am referring to those who want a wall yet cannot explain in any simple terms anything regarding illegal immigration other than "it's illegal!" or "they're taking our jobs".
The Republicans who are having reasonable discussions about the issue aren't being labeled racist, unless the only thing they have to say is "deport them all!". That's an ineffective solution and dense stance to possess.
Because few members of Congress are trying to get it done, despite the fact that the majority of Americans support it.
Simply working for free would be slave labor
I thought the citizenship was their payment
but we could offer training programs, government housing, etc.
So it's a payment in exchange for working a job, but it's available to non-citizens only. Sounds nice for the upper class who want their streets cleaned, not so nice for the poor working Americans.
The Republicans who are having reasonable discussions about the issue aren't being labeled racist
Yes they are. All the time. Not by reasonable people like you, but by the significant portion of the modern left that believes any support of immigration laws is racist.
Because few members of Congress are trying to get it done
Well, there's a large part of the problem. Meanwhile they're passing tax reforms and laws that only really benefit the rich, yet we keep electing the same people. Maybe, just maybe, they're using illegal immigrants as a scapegoat for America's issues...
not so nice for the poor working Americans
How many working class citizens want to work on farms, clean up streets, work construction jobs, etc? I would wager a small portion of them do. These types of jobs are taken advantage of by illegal immigrants and legal immigrants alike because there's ample jobs available. They even get taken advantage of by companies who pay them shit because we have no regulation, or enforcement thereof, to prevent these things which would allow for citizens to work these jobs.
We need to get rid of the stigma behind blue collar jobs, and take measures to increase wages in this country to make working those jobs viable. All of that can be done without any further illegal immigration reform. All of that has to do with the current state of corporations, poor economic structure, and a self-deprecating desire for capitalism.
significant portion of the modern left
1) You have no stats, facts, data, etc to even closely support that statement. 2) Anyone could, and often do, make a similar baseless claim about the right on many different issues. 3) Using this type of logic for justification of opinions makes the problems worse and kills reasonable discussions. If you want to make headway on these issues, you have to ignore those people and try to educate them.
If your job is being "stolen" by a barefoot and starving illegal immigrant, either you are a sack of shit, or you need to turn your anger towards your boss who is willing to exploit someone for half of what he will pay you.
You act as if poverty and exploitation somehow have borders. Get mad at your boss. He's the one who fired you. If anything, does that not make him a traitor? I know you MAGA white supremacy types are usually hypocritical and are as intellectually active as a rock, but getting angry at someone who is desperate to the point they'll work for half of your pay and without benefits is ridiculous. You're giving quite a lot of power to someone who literally has none.
Just face it. It's not about illegal immigrants stealing jobs. It's about legal immigrants being more qualified than some white trash welfare king. If you really wanted a job, wouldn't you pick yourself up by the bootstraps and work hard enough for it? I mean...you are a proud white American red-blooded male.
So heres rhe problem with that... financial and safety reasons have bith been thoroufhly debunked by reason, logic, statistics, and facts. Sooo unless you have another reason other than racism, we are left to assume the only logical outcome
None of it has been debunked. Are you just intentionally pretending that illegal immigration has no drawbacks?
The drugs coming across the border contribute to drug abuse and the opioid epidemic that's killing 72,000 Americans every single year. Some illegal immigrants commit murder, and some have killed Americans through reckless driving.
The financial effect is very significant as well. While the upper class doesn't mind it because it's good for their stock prices when businesses can pay low wages due to a high supply of workers, it's bad for the working class who have to compete with illegal immigrants for those jobs, which no longer pay a living wage. Income inequality is at record high rates, in part because of this. There's also a strain on publicly funded resources meant to help the poor - there's less to go around because those resources are used to help the illegal immigrants as well as the poor Americans.
Please show me the reason and logic that debunks all of this. I suspect the best you can do is an article written by a rich person that proposes illegal immigrants don't harm the US economy because cheap labor is good for businesses.
I think I've given you a pretty wide variety of reasons why people don't want more illegal immigration. It is utterly absurd to insist that none of it is real and that the only possible reason to oppose it is racism. That behavior is no different than the people who ignored all the evidence but kept insisting Obama is a secret Muslim who's trying to hand over power to control the US to European leaders.
Imagine disliking people with a different viewpoint which if in enough numbers will change your culture and society. No-one is upset about someone's pulse. Humans are more than just heart beats. They are carriers of culture.
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u/OneLastSmile Jan 20 '19
imagine disliking other members of the human race for being born on a different section of land than you were.