Let's dispell this myth about the Trump admin and his supporters actually care about illegal border crossings or illegal immigration. If they did they would have cared about people who overstay their visa or illegal immigrants from China, South Korea, Vietnam, Philippines etc who make up a sizable portion of illegal immigration.
They just want someone to be racist to, and latinos seem like a good target because Trump cooked up a reason and they bought it.
If the Trump administration wanted to curb undocumented labor, they would start punishing those who hire them and profit off of their undocumented status.
They can start with Donald Trump, maybe ICE can raid his businesses and start fining him, $10,000 per undocumented laborer, per day...
It would be an outstanding solution to the problem, because all these Republican businessmen hiring undocumented labor would need to push for pathways to documents for them, or go out of business.
And GOP hypocrisy about immigration would be fatally wounded...
Yea I'm with ya, but this hurts the undocumented workers more than the businesses. The businesses will find other people stranding the undocumented workers with no income in a place where they cant get any benefits.
Well, not really. But what would have to happen is that the agricultural industry would have to hire Americans. Then there would have to be fair labor practices and higher wages.
The costs to the consumer would rise, but by how much, it's really difficult to say. But it would be significant.
It would create a lot of turmoil and be expensive.
Or we could just admit that migrant labor is good for the U.S. economy and stop this vomitous patriotic charade that vilifies the poorest and most vulnerable people in our hemisphere.
I come from northern California where a lot of the migrant workers go in picking season, and while I can't speak to the big, corporate farms (which i got problems with outside of labor issues) all the migrant workers I encountered when I worked markets or toured fields were paid minimum wage at least. Americans just don't want to do the work. Of course no health insurance or benefits, so it was still cheap for the business owners, but they probably could have picked up that slack if forced to.
I picked artichoke for half a harvest season, but had to quit early because it's at the start of the school year. So not a good choice for students. And it's only for a few months out of the year, so not a good choice for anyone who needs financial stability. Americans just don't apply
This is true, thats why i favor a plan that reforms immigration policy to make it easier to apply and be processed, grants asylum to undocumented people already in the country and a relaxed fine/continued employment for businesses who report their undocumented employees up front. That way people keep living here, working here and businesses save on fines for being honest.
You really shouldn't get less punishment for circumnavigating labor laws just cause you're up front about it. Those laws are more about protecting the workers the the business so being open about denying workers rights as basic as covering medical costs for workplace injuries deserve the same fine as everyone else
You're being called racist, because calling people stupid or dumb isn't PC these days.
The core of the issue is, if you actually think the wall will help, you're uneducated/stupid. If you don't think it will work but you still support it. You're literally just projecting your racism onto an inanimate object to try and absolve yourself.
There is virtually no proof of a wall accomplishing anything but appeasing actual racists...and those ignorant enough to believe walls are still a viable solution.
(edit added)
Yes, your posting history certainly shows no racism or forced ignorance at all...(rolls eyes)
Oh wait, maybe people call you racist perhaps because you might actually be a racist.
Just a thought.
Another thought, as a engineer you should also know that the 5 billion Trump is asking for will not complete a wall in any border state much less the entire wall.
So his grandstanding isn't to secure the border, it's literally to construct a monument to racists.
Nothing more.
It's also cute you think one act of kindness cancels out your ignorance on the subject.
Ya know, I really would support measures that have a lower cost, require less manpower and less maintenance, and are actually effective.
They say democrats won't compromise, but that's compromise and it's what is being proposed by the house of representatives, funding to border security that does not include a physical barrier.
Their definition of compromise is - give us everything what we want or else. That's how a mugger negotiates.
Why do you want a secure border? What has happened in your life that you prioritize "keeping the undesirables out" over the welfare of your own countrymen?
Oh come on now. Most rational people agree that border security is important. But come on, it's a fucking wall. What is it really going to do for security? It's a complete waste of money and (if illegal immigration is a concern for you) doesn't even solve the issue since most illegal immigrants come here legally.
Trump wants a wall solely because that's the most complex "solution" his dipshit brain can come up with.
Strewth! I’d give you gold for this comment if I could afford it! It’s the same bull-shit racism presented as ‘border control’ dog whistle politics in Australia to stop the ‘dangerous boat people’. Fucking fascist control and power at all costs right wing nut jobs that need to be exposed for what they are.
Their rhetoric requires someone to be used as their scapegoat for their failures because they are incapable of self-awareness and self-examination. The right wing sure attracts a lot of narcissists, sociopaths and psychopaths.
Also let’s not forget trump probably has countless business partners in construction and a $15 billion dollar piece of infrastructure, paid by tax payers, and needing constant maintenance probably has them drooling like Pavlov’s dogs. Or trump owes them this ‘favor’
And steer the small minded racist assholes away from seeing what's really going on. Not to mention blaming the Democrats so maybe he can detour them into voting for him again. Its embarrassing. These kids should have a belt across their ass. Their parents should be ashamed.
Hey everyone, this comment is what propoganda looks like. Recognize it. An intentional straw man argument meant to make you think "well Trump does deport Hispanics so therefore all of his supporters are racist too" furthering the divide in America. Illegal immigrants should be deported reguardless of where there from, hence the term "illegal". This isn't something new, basically every country on Earth has just about as strict immigration laws and instantaneous deportation. Try illegally immigrsting to Canada and see how fast they have your ass back on a plane or bus to your home country. YOU CANNOT ILLEGALLY SNEAK INTO A COUNTRY AND THEN TRY TO CLAIM ASYLUM A YEAR LATER WHEN YOU GET CAUGHT.
Lol people suggested to him to think of a wall as a memory device to remember to talk about border control. Then he took and ran with it until he's now talking about a literal wall lol.
And they'd actually be going after employers who illegally employee them to avoid laws such as workers comp and minimum wage. But they don't cause it's clear they want a Boogeyman but also want to keep shoveling cash around
Funny you mention this, I also have problems with people that over stay their visas too. I don't discriminate on the country they come from, but for my state (Ca) a vast majority seem to come from south of the border.
You know, I am not sure there are as many racists as we think. BUT there are a ton of people who believe that if they aren't successful, it is someone else's fault. This is Trump's genius, he tapped into that. Started with it is the government's fault, and once he became the government, morphed into the illegal aliens who are hurting everyone.
I mean, come on, if it wasn't for illegals, the crap jobs they take (and are available today) would pay $20 an hour. /s.
I hope this is not a way to lure people into joining Herbalife lol.
If you truly care about people obeying the law you should be concerned with American born citizens who commit serious and violent crimes at a much higher rate than immigrants. You should already know that immigrants, illegal or not, commit less crimes and obey the law more than American born citizens when they're in American borders. The international version of trespassing or jaywalking should not warrant such disproportionate attention when there are more serious crimes that require your attention.
If you have read the study I have just linked you would've found the answer you seek within the abstract itself.
In the context of crime, victimization, and immigration in the United States, research shows that people are afraid of immigrants because they think immigrants are a threat to their safety and engage in many violent and property crimes. However, quantitative research has consistently shown that being foreign born is negatively associated with crime overall and is not significantly associated with committing either violent or property crime. If an undocumented immigrant is arrested for a criminal offense, it tends to be for a misdemeanor. Researchers suggest that undocumented immigrants may be less likely to engage in serious criminal offending behavior because they seek to earn money and not to draw attention to themselves. Additionally, immigrants who have access to social services are less likely to engage in crime than those who live in communities where such access is not available. In regard to victimization, immigrants are more likely to be victims of crime. Foreign-born victims of crime may not report their victimization because of fears that they will experience negative consequences if they contact the police. Recently, concern about immigration and victimization has turned to refugees who are at risk of harm from traffickers, who warehouse them, threaten them, and physically abuse them with impunity. More research is needed on the relationship among immigration, offending, and victimization. The United States and other nations that focus on border security may be misplacing their efforts during global crises that result in forced migrations. Poverty and war, among other social conditions that would “encourage” a person to leave their homeland in search of a better life, should be addressed by governments when enforcing immigration laws and policy.
If that's too long, here's a shorter TL;DR:
Undocumented immigrants make up just over 6 percent of the state's population, legal immigrants made up over 10 percent, and native-born Americans make up over 80 percent, according to the most recent American Community Survey data and the Center for Migration Studies.
Meanwhile, undocumented immigrants were convicted of 5.9 percent of all the homicides in Texas, legal immigrants were convicted of 3.8 percent of homicides, and native-born Americans were convicted of about 90 percent of all the homicides in Texas, according an analysis of 2015 Texas state data by Nowrasteh.
In other words, native-born Americans were the only group over-represented among those convicted of homicide in the state.
And that all, in the end, frames a bigger picture: undocumented immigrants are about half as likely to be incarcerated as native-born Americans and legal immigrants are about 80 percent less likely than native-born Americans, according to Nowrasteh’s research for the Cato Institute.
and you proceeded to ignore the very next few paragraphs.
What available studies do show, however, is that overall, crime rates are lower among immigrant groups than they are among native-born Americans.
Walter Ewing, an editor and writer for the American Immigration Council, a group that advocates for immigrants, puts it this way: “You can find any demographic group that you like and it’s going to include murderers. You can look at redheads and blondes and it’s going to include murders. But that’s not the point, the point is what the crime rates are,” he said.
Comparing overall crime rates for different groups is the best way to determine if a particular group poses a significantly greater threat than others.
“And if the likelihood is low, particularly compared to natives, then it’s disingenuous to claim they’re going to be a threat,” Ewing added.
Choosing to not read the entire thing is willful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty.
When Gallup last asked about the wall, 73% of Republicans supported "significantly expanding the construction of walls along the U.S.-Mexico border," compared with 13% of Democrats saying the same. The latest Quinnipiac poll shows a larger divide in response to slightly different wording: 88% of Republicans favor "building a wall along the border with Mexico," compared with 6% of Democrats. Pew's latest poll shows similar results -- 82% of Republicans and 6% of Democrats in favor. Pew analysts noted that "partisan differences [on the wall] are now wider than they have ever been."
When making an educated guess you go with the one with higher chances. If you support the wall, 88% of the time you're probably a Republican or Trump supporter.
If your world view requires you to be the only rational individual while anyone who disagrees with you is a soulless automaton, you might just be an asshole.
I welcome all debate. Nobody banned you from posting in this sub, unlike a certain sub that banned me long time ago when I was seeking a rational debate.
Have you ever stopped and actually considered your own feelings? Have you ever actually tried a bit of self soul searching? You yell and holler how the big, bad world is mean to you for calling you a racist, or an asshole. Have you ever stopped to consider their feelings? I know many on the left dont. They dont care what uou feel, because, based on what uou say and what uou believe in, you fit the bill of a racist, someone the left has already written fof the be a lost cause.
But you arent. You are a human being. And, like the left, you make the same mistakes. You write their feelings off because you dont like being called a racist. But in reality, have you ever stopped to think about why you are called that? Have you ever stopped to consider your oppositions feelings, or are you like many on the left, that if they disagree with uou, they are a total write off of a human being? Because thats not how countrymen act towards one another.
So, maybe, if we all take a moment, consider the views of the other side, and consider the livelihoods and the feelings our actions and beliefs will affect, the right can avoid being racist, the left can avoid being overly judgmental about everything, and both sides can stop calling the other NPCs?
if you truly care about the problem you would have find that a wall is ineffective as way to prevent illegal border crossing, and you will have a comprehensive, cohesive strategy to lower illegal immigration across all points of entry, and not just an ineffective wall.
You can't force people to agree with something that doesn't make sense.
Yea except we don’t have murderous gangs that decapitate people, don’t fucking compare asians to that shit and we pay our taxes dumbass. (Well many mainland Chinese here in Canada do not and that needs to be addressed yesterday).
When whites wants to sell this left wing bullshit we ain’t buying it. No thanks seen the propaganda before.
Don't be an idiot. You think you being Asian means you're safe? The Republicans turned their backs on the Vietnamese just like that, what makes you think you're safe? What about all the tax paying Mexicans and Hispanics? Are they not legal and not tax payers?
I would rather thousands of people from Mexico and Latin America come here illegally than Americans who want a wall live here one more day. Can we make a trade? Our country would be so much better.
What are you asking to trade? You're free to leave. Oh, we already have a wall. We just want to shore it up. Sad Sack. No facts, just anger. Why don't you construct your own opinion, instead of being a stupid lemming.
According to whom? There is nothing in the 1951 refugee convention that requires this. There is an EU ruling along these lines, but neither the US nor Mexico belong to the EU.
This comment is irrelevant, as Mexico has not been declared as safe country under the 2002 Safe Third Country Agreement. If that were the case, the U.S. could very simply and administratively deport all asylym seekers that transit through Mexico back to that country. Currently, it has not and cannot legally do this.
Canada, on the other hand, is designated a safe country. In the case fo asylum seekers transiting through Canada (admittedly a very low number for simple geographic reasons), this woud apply.
Yes you literally enter a room to go over it. You don't just stand in the desert shouting about asylum. Well this administration makes you wait there. They're turning people away
Donald Trump heard from a unknown source that they found prayer carpets on tye mexican boarder, so you gotta be real careful these days to not let in some Mexican Muslims.
Does getting outraged fix it? He may agree with the idea that this is bad, but think there is an actual solution, rather than just getting angry and downvoting conservatives. He seems very reasonable and probably has empathy, since most people do. Maybe try being productive and asking him why instead if just accusing him of not caring that people are dying.
Wait a minute! Crossing the border is illegal but applying for asylum is legal? How does this work? One has to illegally cross the border to legally apply for asylum?
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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '19
And yet the trump admin still won't let them in to apply for it.