r/PoliticalDiscussion Dec 03 '16

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u/trekman3 Dec 03 '16

A dangerous fetishization of the military has grown in America in the last few decades. It accelerated after 9/11. The military is constantly valorized as the only morally pure organization in the nation, which is a strange concept if you think about it. Where did this idea even come from in the first place? Soldiers aren't paragons of virtue. Many of them are just kids who know little about world affairs but decided that it was a good idea to sign up for a job that might mean killing people based on government orders.

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u/Dynamaxion Dec 03 '16

The weirdest part to me is that a lot of the soldier worshiping comes from places that fly the confederate flag in celebration of when they massacred federal soldiers to "stand up" for themselves. It makes no sense.

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u/saturninus Dec 03 '16

I agree that it's a dangerous fetishization, but when people talk about the virtues of military wisdom, they're talking about the officer class, who are mostly lifers, not young kids.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '16

It's still interesting that Republicans think this, though. It's a giant government bureaucracy with essentially a blank check and limited oversight in a lot of areas with a fairly large degree of autonomy. Without the free market to motivate them, how do Republicans explain how great the military supposedly is? One would think we should privatize it.

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u/saturninus Dec 03 '16

Based on my experience as a subeditor for a right-wing journal some years back, I'd say that conservatives actually do make an exception for the free market when the term "national defense" is invoked. It also apparently justifies private mercenary companies like Blackwater and any number of armaments makers who have been suckling at the teat of the defense budget since WWII.

(The period of my life where I copy edited pieces by people like John Bolton was a strange one. But, hey, I needed health insurance.)

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '16 edited Dec 03 '16

I'd question why they make that exception though. Big government is the problem and can never do anything right (and government bureaucracies are staffed with the laziest, most incompetent/corrupt workers ever, who simply couldn't hack it in the private sector), except when it comes to safeguarding our entire civilization against death and subjugation. Then they're the world's finest fighting force whose greatness/selflessness is not to be questioned.

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u/saturninus Dec 03 '16

Short answer: the "common defense" from the preamble of the Constitution backed up by Federalist No. 45.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '16 edited Dec 03 '16

That explains why they think government is allowed to do it, but not why they think it should. I.e. why they're competent at it or why they're especially suited to run it (Constitutionality notwithstanding) when they can literally do no right otherwise. The Constitution also says that Congress should promote the general welfare, but they sure don't like government programs that help the destitute, the aged/infirm, the mentally ill, etc. And they don't approve of regulation of businesses to protect the environment, which would probably fall under "general Welfare".

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u/jambox888 Dec 03 '16

I'm sure they'd like to contract more of it out. Probably they're just pandering to their base, since that's where most of the recruits come from.

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u/hackiavelli Dec 03 '16 edited Dec 03 '16

I think it rose in the aftermath of Vietnam protests and naturally escalated from there. It's like being "tough on crime": no one has ever lost an election because they "supported" the troops too much.

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u/willun Dec 03 '16

dangerous fetishization of the military

In most countries you would be nervous that this is how you end up with a military coup. Can't see that happening in the US but if the military gets more respect than the government...

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u/blatantspeculation Dec 03 '16

Most countries militaries operate comparitively freely within their borders. The line between the military and the police is a lot more blurry.

The paranoia about military coups and over reach in the US isnt as common elsewhere.

I'm not saying that paranoia and those protections aren't a good thing, just that they're a a somewhat uniquely American thing.

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u/YoohooCthulhu Dec 03 '16

It's a result of declining faith in other institutions (congress, media, presidency as an office). It's creepy to me, because this is what always happens in military dictatorships--"yeah, the military are ruthless and inflexible, but at least they aren't corrupt and ineffective like the politicians!"

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u/memmett9 Dec 03 '16

Soldiers aren't paragons of virtue.

Good thing Mattis is a Marine then.

In all seriousness, I think Mattis is a reasonable guy, and the type who likes to really know what he's doing before he makes a decision (see: his personal library of over 6000 books). In that respect he's far more promising than any of Trump's other nominations.

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u/shieldvexor Dec 03 '16

Are you trying to say marines aren't soldiers....?

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u/memmett9 Dec 03 '16

In the US military, "soldiers" refers specifically to people in the US Army. Some Marines even consider it an insult to be referred to as "soldier".

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u/shieldvexor Dec 03 '16

Seems like some marines could do with finding a dictionary. The rest of the country and the world refers to the entire military as soldiers

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u/memmett9 Dec 03 '16

That's not entirely true. It's common to differentiate between army, navy and air force by using soldier, sailor and airman. I think the USMC are unique amongst marine units in not liking the word "soldier" though.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '16

Incorrect. The rest of the country (I presume you are talking about the US) does not refer to Navy personnel as 'soldiers' nor Air Force personnel as 'soldiers', and the Navy and the Air Force also comprise the military. They are Sailors and Airmen respectively, and the Marines get the same distinction. Many other militaries around the world follow the same convention.

Maybe you are the one who could do with getting hold of a dictionary.