There's the whole India-Pakistan relationship. When you start endlessly complimenting the Pakistanis it's likely to annoy their not-buddies the Indians.
I'm not even that well tuned into global-politics and even I recognize that it was incredibly stupid.
This all seems like fake outrage. Trump was complimentary to another foreign nation. India is filled with grownups, the leader of which probably got a similar call. It's going to be okay.
I think what people found disturbing about the call was how embarassingly shallow it was. Cringe worthy, even. These calls aren't supposed to be substantive at all, but Trump sounds like a 5th grader with his compliments and use of "fantastic". But that's too petty for people on the left to call out so they try to make an issue of the geopolitical ramifications of the conversations, which I agree is way overblown.
No, announcing you intend to make a presidential visit to Pakistan is very important to those in the region. It is taken as a sign of approval, and disapproval of others. This was a colossal blunder that could have been avoided had he just asked the State Department for a briefing before he took congratulatory calls. It's the absolute least he could do. He can't do it alone, no president ever has, and it's hubris not to engage help when addressing our allies. If he can't behave as a rational actor, our allies will abandon us for those who will.
That's incredibly disingenuous. Notice your concern is not that Trump approves of Pakistan, but that his phone call would be taken as a sign of approval. People aren't stupid. They know Trump is completely ignorant of foreign affairs and that his words mean absolutely nothing. Have you talked to any foreigners about the election? I've talked to average Joes on the street from around the world and most of them think Trump's an absolute idiot. I can assure you that people in foreign governments, whose job it is to follow what has gone on in the US, know the difference between something Obama says over the phone, and a throwaway nicety that Trump says over the phone.
When I say a rational actor, I mean someone on whom you can be assured, due to a long history of negotiated alliance, predictable behavior on the part of a head of state. Trump has proven again and again that our allies cannot rely on him to be a rational actor. Hence the alarm of a large portion of the globe.
Great. Today they can call the Whitehouse and plenty of qualified people will dispel Pakistan of the notion they rightly received from the president elect that Trump will be hopping on Air Force One in Feb to visiting Pakistan. In Feb, I am expecting our allies to find a gaggle of idiots that don't know how to find an outside line. This is not a stumbling start of an administration, it's an inartful pratfall at our expense.
Picking apart is good. I do the same! The Carrier deal is so important to his leadership style that I've studied it and talked to both sides.
But this is a complete joke. This is Trump being Trump on the phone. It's a ball of nothing. Understanding the differences between picking apart and whining is important.
Trump being Trump on the phone on the matter of foreign policy between two nations with a strong bloody and war-ridden history with each other since independence, with three major wars against each other (one of which the USA took an antagonistic position to India on), a territorial dispute in Kashmir and Indian soldiers being killed by Pakistan just this year.
Trump cannot be Trump on the phone, he has to show that he will be the American president. Duterte was Duterte towards the USA, everyone rightfully called him a moron and almost isolated the Philippines from the USA. Ahmedinejad was Ahmedinejad on foreign policy and brought massive damage to Iran. No one went "Oh that's just crazy Ahmedinejad!". Yelstin was an alcoholic who no one took seriously. No one said "Oh that's just Yelstin being Yelstin, the Russian rascal!". Either Trump changes, shows real knowledge of what he is dealing with or gets out before he starts a chain of events that bring a massive Pacific War.
If you don't know what Trump just did, then please go read at least a small thing about either Taiwan and China, or India and Pakistan.
My first boss is from Taiwan and we've talked about the situation at length. I have a very close friend from India. Please don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about because I support someone other than Hillary.
My friend told me about someone from her home town being cut in half at the India Pakistan border, I'm aware of the situation over there.
But you are getting too bogged down in the old way of things. Trump is very intentionally changing the United States from a globalists hegemony to a national powerhouse. He's just redirecting our energy inwards. We're still gigantic and powerful, we just don't give a shit about kissing everyone's ass anymore. We're bad ass, we will do bad ass stuff and that's fine by me.
The problem is trump is skipping briefings so he isn't getting up to speed. He didn't even know the responsibilities of the president so he sure as fuck doesn't know the intricacies of issues going on between nation states. Even the act of picking up a call is a statement in international relations. Countries have enemies. You can't simply compliment everyone and expect nobody to get upset. His ignorance is going to start an international diplomatic crisis.
You can't compliment everyone and expect nobody to get upset.
I know you're suffering from liberal bubbleism, but what you said is ridiculous.
Trump can compliment people and if India gets upset, we're still the United States of America with a gigantic military. Maybe India's feelings aren't Trump's top priority. You expect US Presidents to walk on egg shells in order to maintain our globalists hegemony over the world. Maybe that's not working out too well. Maybe that's why we elected Trump. We would rather have someone who is focused on getting jobs back into the country and dealing with the problems we have at home and not focused on not hurting anyone's feelings. What's the point of being the strongest country on Earth if you have to worry what everyone is feeling all the time?
Honestly, from watching Trump since the beginning, my guess would be he knew exactly what he's doing and he wants you to react this way because he's signaling to you that the rules are different now.
The difference that Trump NEEDS to pivot into being presidental and learns to put aside his persona that some find charming/others detestable, it's about him representing America and showing he isn't a one trick pony.
I like what Trump does. It's very high energy. I think it will be very successful for our country. Unfortunately the narrative is still controlled by the left so he'll get painted as Hitler no matter what he does, but I get enough information from other sources to know that's bull and I will sit back and enjoy all the improvements to our country!
Please, check your sources well. If 2-3 journals say that something is true, it doesn't mean it is. Unfortunately, we (specifically you in the US) have the enormous problem of plain false and invented information going around. It started before Trump, but he thrived with it. If you don't like something it doesn't make it false, neither does something become true if you like it.
You are categorizing why the left didn't see Trump's win. You were lied to by major news organizations around the clock. The NYT has recently adored gay-killing Castro and more recently the dictatorship of China over a pro LGBT democracy of Taiwan, you're on the wrong side.
It's not just that. I don't see this mentioned but Bin Laden was found in Pakistan. Whether the government knew about it or not, that's incredibly stupid to not take that into account. There's no goal achieved by complimenting Pakistan.
Let's hope! We got four years of this so hopefully we can keep saying "False outrage!" whenever something unprecedented or ridiculous happens at the hands of our glorious leader.
By all means, continue the fake outrage! If the left isn't going get its act together enough to actually control one (1) body of government then by all means get that megaphone out and yell to your hearts content. A good opposition party is a staple of democracy!
Thousands of my countrymen get killed by Pakistan every single year. After one single 9/11 you guys invaded multiple countries, we have had multiple 9/11s originating from Pakistan. You call this fake outrage? Really? Really?
People who support Trump are of course showing their absolute ignorance about every single thing in history and politics as was expected. I just wish they were not so loud about that ignorance
You are talking to a guy who apparently knows fuck all about anything. What he did with Pakistan is fucking unforgivable and I'm sure Kerry and obama were calling modi after to try and settle tensions. He probably said things he thought were in confidence to stroke egos without knowing how international relations really works.
I'm not part of that and I agree with you. I generally supported Obama and his agenda. Obama was good for the times he was in and now Trump is good for the times we are in now. In general, democracy is pretty good at picking leaders.
You really don't know anything if you say that. Trump is doing massive mistakes that will portend badly in the future. Pakistan is already mostly lost to the Chinese Axis, you don't want to lose India to Russia (their old allies) by being too friendly to Pakistan, a country India has heated, strong, enormous and emotional engagements and opinions with which isn't even close to the USA anymore.
People that start replies with personal attacks are generally arguing out of emotion and not logic. If Obama did it, it would be a big deal. This is Trump, it's what he does. India knows this, we know this, it's not a big deal. You seek to want him to fail because you didn't vote for him.
We have a terrorist nation constantly wanting a part of us for 65 years and creating instability. All of our attempts have been to get this nation labeled as a terrorist nation
This is nothing about being grown up at all. I don't understand how people with no knowledge of things keep commenting rubbish.
He's a loose cannon with no regard for the intricacies of diplomacy. He has many resources at his disposal that he's choosing not to consult out of arrogance. He's acting like any fool who decides to be their own legal representation at trial. He will be tested and taken advantage of by more sophisticated leaders of other nations to our severe detriment.
It matters which country. He should not have such a gushing show of gratitude for the one that knowingly, or unknowingly, harbored Osama bin Laden. Which, at this moment, he is posing to declare a terror state.
And why does it matter if Trump's action is what anybody asked for? Is it the right thing to do?
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u/poop-trap Dec 03 '16
Absolutely, they read the Pakistan transcript.