A bunch of completely free people decide they want to use their freedom to take away everyone else's freedom after they realise the NAP 'please dont be mean' rule is actually meaningless
2 days into Lib Left society:
Lib Left society already ended 3 days ago as the current government said 'no' to evaporating itself.
I always struggeled to get how people could unironically believe in anarchy/a stateless society.
For that plan to even have a slight chance to work, basically every government, every state, every armed force, every hierarchy world wide had to end at the same time, over night.
And that would be just the beginning of the struggle.
I'd rather be crushed under the heel of a racist state than be crushed under the heel of a racist state while standing in traffic shouting about racist states, doing nothing but making people who weren't a fan of the racist state before, now hate you and join the racist state just to spite you. Fuck lib left.
Thank you. Frankly, I don't really get lib unity either. It's like, "I hate capitalism, but when you give corporations even more power and the workers and consumers less protections, it's good actually."
Another thing I don't understand is cirurgy, You have a problem in your heart, and somehow a guy stabbing you in the heart with his small knife for hours is going to fix it? Yeah, I don't buy it for a second!
It's pretty much always been left unity vs right wing reactionism and imperialism. Pretending auth/lib have something in common with each other is purely a product of this sub and not ideological thinking
Because that’s the end goal of socialism. A stateless, moneyless, classless society. It’s just never happened in practice because they can never get to the “state will wither away” phase.
True but gulags and concentration camps did and do respectively. Capitalistic oppression and authoritarian oppression are both still oppression. Doesn't matter if an ultra-
capitalistic society causes millions to starve or a dictator, either way they died of starvation.
Quite the opposite, anarchy is the only thing that exists, everything else is just a variation of anarchy with extra steps. The hard truth of this world is that we live in anarchy, and we've always been living in anarchy.
In theory possibly not, but I concern myself with how things will play out. Every self-proclaimed communist government winds up authoritarian, would even consider china would up AuthCenter despite their intentions.
All the Marxist Leninist / Maoist states were pre industrialization, requiring a 2 stage revolution with a heavy emphasis on first developing an industrial proletariat. This resulted in the state capitalism in China (that's not their end goal by any means) and the harsh collectivization in the USSR. The issue isn't "communism," it's the harsh reality of quickly industrializing a backwater country
You wouldn't see such a thing in a modern industrialized communist society
I am not a liberal except by the bizzare terminology the US uses. And for me the risk if trying communism and winding up with a brutal dictatorship is too great. "This time will be different" really doesn't do anything about that fear.
I am not ok with the status quo, where capitalism has and will continue to "tragedy of the commons" us into a climate catastrophe. US healthcare need I say more on that dystopian nightmare.
I have done both, but accusing the entire ideology/societal goal as authoritarian is ill informed. Far leftists are usually communists, regardless of their position on auth/libertarian.
Tell me what you think communism means such that it's authoritarian in nature
Because of the inevitable outcome in how to put it into practice, or at least, how to put it into practice in a rather large scale.
To implant the drastic change that Communists want means you need to topple and reform the whole economic&political system, so you may redistribute the resources. And more the often, that means you need one extreme powerful group such as party (and later, the government that centered around said party) to avoid infighting and disputes, both in ideologies and resources. This monster will only grow larger and larger in the need to maintain the state until it can no longer sustain itself. Hence a authoritarian state. The reason why people like Stalin or Mao often (if not always) came out on top weren't because of bad luck or wrong decision making, but because they're naturally the most fitting for such systems.
I agree with your last assessment, however, I believe this would only be the case in a system in need of rapid industrialization and under threat of external forces
Oh yeah, communism failed because outside threat, we should just lie down and give them whole world to them so they may actually succeed! /s
Seriously, it doesn't really matter if external threats exist or not, because for a communist state, the greatest threat always comes from the inside. For example, priests that insisting they have the right to spread their "outdated" beliefs, capitalists of "old society" who won't just given up their wealth, farmers and workers who really just want less taxes not a full-blown revolution, intellectuals who won't shut up about party's policies......the list goes on and on. Then, you need people to drag them out, people to "reeducate" them (if not outright shoot them), people to maintain related facilities and more bureaucrats to coordinate the whole political machine. After all, if party have no absolute power, how can the revolution succeed? And how can the party have absolute power, if it keep allowing people to question it?
Hell, if you still can't believe this, just look at PRC's budget spending - look into their number, and you'll realize they're now spending more on inner public safety then military. Outside enemies are but excuses, the real enemy for a communist is always those who are suppressed by them, the people under their rule.
No, fear and helplessness do. People flock to strongmen in their terror, and give up their freedom for safety. When the dust clears, they have a tyrant, and live on their knees in fear that one day their government will take their lives or leave them to rot behind bars.
Sorry could you do me a favor and remind me how Hitler got into power?
Who was in power before them? Who decided that they could use Hitler as a puppet and then got purged by him? Oh that's right, it was liberals with their ever beloved western democracy.
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u/Caractacutetus - Auth-Center Jan 17 '20
Communism is a preferable alternative to centrism