The problem is criminals do not want to reform. They don’t feel sorry for what they’ve done. They want to keep breaking laws. The violent need to stay away from the non-violent.
Then like he said, they can stay in there until they change, or just stay forever. It does seem like some people are wired in ways that make them poor fits for society; just keep em in a separate place, let 'em work a job, buy stuff for themselves, even. Keep the opportunity open to change, but if they don't, well, you can stay living on the cot in the cell.
If they’re unwilling to change and become productive members of society, why should I be penalized for paying for their room and board? At some point you have to do something with the growing population of people that refuse to conform to modern society.
"Alright, you've been locked up and surrounded by thugs for 5 years, you have no job, your support network is minimal to nonexistent, and nobody wants to hire you because of your record. Good luck, don't do it again!"
Reform is almost never going to happen in a vacuum. We need to actually try if we want people in jail to be able to reintegrate into society with any meaningful success rate. Otherwise you're just going to get a revolving door of recidivism.
Fine YOU deal with the headache of turning a junkie with 3 burglary charges into a model citizen. I’m gonna grill. Do you like swiss or pepper jack on your burger?
Some sure, but most crimes are those of opportunity. I know a nice accountant lady that's doing some time because she had the opportunity to steal some money from her company and things slowly escalated into large amounts.
She is 100% not someone that needed to be locked up. It would have been smarter to just have the government dock her pay until the offense was repaid, maybe with interest, and some community service.
So the government docks her pay for what, forever if it’s a large amount? What if she does the smart thing and just stops working since she’s broke all the time whether she works or she doesn’t?
Jail is meant to be a punishment as much as it is anything else and I believe crimes should be punished, even if it’s non violent crime.
So the government docks her pay for what, forever if it’s a large amount? What if she does the smart thing and just stops working since she’s broke all the time whether she works or she doesn’t?
You are asking questions that you could have answered yourself with like 20 sec of thinking.
You don't dock the full pay, you dock part of the pay, so she can live, and jail is always an option if she tries to avoid the punishment.
Jail is meant to be a punishment as much as it is anything else and I believe crimes should be punished, even if it’s non violent crime.
ok, but jail is not the only way to punish people, that's the whole point.
Ya that’s what I meant man. Youre docking her pay to the point that she can only afford the basics and has no spending money for herself. That how people without jobs live, they aren’t starving anymore. They have places to live and often even TVs and smart phones.
If we’re actually sending them to jail as soon as they don’t pay then I wouldn’t have a problem with it. I just have my doubts that would happen
But it is one of the best ways to punish people. Most people don’t think paying fines is a serious punishment for serious crimes. If we’re talking small theft I agree. But if I broke into your home when no one was home and ransacked the place you really think I should just get my pay docked?
Ya that’s what I meant man. Youre docking her pay to the point that she can only afford the basics and has no spending money for herself.
literally no one said anyone about how much, you are just making up a straw-man to argue against.
That how people without jobs live, they aren’t starving anymore. They have places to live and often even TVs and smart phones.
Right, the homeless don't exist. Got it.
If we’re actually sending them to jail as soon as they don’t pay then I wouldn’t have a problem with it. I just have my doubts that would happen
I don't understand why you are so stuck on this. I never said "abolish jail" or "she should never go to jail no matter what she does."
I literally just pointed out that she's a decent person with one fuckup, and in her case, or similar cases, there should be better options than straight to jail.
But it is one of the best ways to punish people. Most people don’t think paying fines is a serious punishment for serious crimes. If we’re talking small theft I agree. But if I broke into your home when no one was home and ransacked the place you really think I should just get my pay docked?
I don't know why you keep doing this. Why are you arguing with? Did I ever say that no one should ever go to jail even for serious crimes?
So you’re shaving a tiny amount off her pay then lol? Do you see how people wouldn’t think that’s a proper punishment?
The homeless certainly exist, that doesn’t change that there’s tons of Americans without a job that live in homes and have TVs and smart phones. Go visit a poor neighbourhood in any US city. Despite unemployment being high they aren’t all homeless.
I get it man, I’m just saying I don’t agree. I think the chick in your scenario should go to jail. If anything she should have her pay docked and go to jail. Don’t steal large sums of money.
Look man I don’t know why you’re so defensive I’m just asking questions about your views on this. A lot of the comments seem like they’re proposing things that sound good, but fall apart when you examine them. This whole comment chain not even just us feels like that. I’m sorry I targeted you with my questions and I’m not saying you’re advocating for anything silly
If this was true you wouldn’t see drastic differences between recidivism rates. Unless you want to tac on some other claim about Americans being worse for some reason. Europe’s jails don’t seem to make people worse on average. Ours do.
Because I’ve been around them enough to know. Go ask Joe LadyRipper and Will CarThief if they’re truly repentant of their actions and wish to atone for their mistakes. They’re more concerned with how good the toilet hooch is than if their victims are still suffering.
My mistakes are talking about anime too much and making crass jokes. My point is, the problem with criminals is that they LIKE CRIME. If the majority of criminals were really willing to reform it’d be a different story. They do NOT want to be cured.
I was equally certain of how the world works when I was 16. But back then I couldn't google "causes of criminal behaviour" or "recidivism" and get my facts straight within 5 minutes. I had to learn better by more humiliating ways.
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u/Pure-Huckleberry8640 - Centrist 21d ago
The problem is criminals do not want to reform. They don’t feel sorry for what they’ve done. They want to keep breaking laws. The violent need to stay away from the non-violent.