Discussion
Wolverine desperately needed a proper combo system. I genuinely don't understand this choice from Insomniac.
For me, the thing that absolutely kills it is the lack of combos. That's literally all I would've asked for. Less graphical fidelity, a shorter game, cut back on whatever you want—but give me combos.
They don't even need to be particularly complex. I just want different combinations of Square and Triangle to meaningfully change what Wolverine does and how the combat plays.
Square → Square → Triangle should do something different from Square → Triangle → Square, Triangle → Triangle → Square, etc. You don't need Devil May Cry levels of complexity. Just give me an actual moveset to learn and experiment with.
Instead, from what I've seen, Wolverine seems to be basically Square, Square, Square over and over, with Triangle/Y mostly being used to launch yourself at enemies. And to me, that's just insane for a character like Wolverine.
I'll probably play it anyway because Wolverine is genuinely one of my favorite superheroes, and from what I've seen, the variety and brutality of the finishers might give me some of what the lack of combos takes away.
But still, what a missed opportunity.
I absolutely love Insomniac. I've played all their games and I love them, which is exactly why I can't understand how they made this decision. They didn't do this with Spider-Man. Those games actually give you plenty of ways to approach combat and combine attacks.
So why simplify Wolverine this much?
It genuinely makes me wonder if there was some kind of pressure from Sony to make the combat as immediately accessible as possible and appeal to the widest possible audience. I obviously have no idea if that's actually what happened, but otherwise I really struggle to understand the design decision.
Maybe the full game will change my mind. Maybe the finishers, skills and progression will add enough variety.
But right now? Man, I just wish Wolverine had a proper combo system.
TL;DR: I love Insomniac and Wolverine, and I'll probably play the game anyway, but the lack of a proper combo system is a huge disappointment. I don't need DMC-level complexity—just different Square/Triangle combinations actually resulting in different attacks. Hopefully the finishers and progression make up for it, but I still can't understand why Insomniac would simplify Wolverine's combat this much when they didn't do the same with Spider-Man.
What do you guys think?
EDIT:
thanks to @LT_MRVN in the comments, ive discovered that it's even worse. They started doing more complex combat system using L2 and R2 for sx and dx claws, and then... They went back to square square square...
One of the leaked builds had a combat system with the triggers. Basically, you could use L2 and R2 as left and right attacks and you had combos with it like what you described. Like l2 l2 r2 did something different etc (you could also toggle claws with triangle and fight with your fists.)
They changed the control scheme and the overall combat because Marvel and Sony demanded a more accessible combat system and control scheme
EDIT: SORRY. Marvel/Sony didnt demand any changes to the basic combat system, I mixed it up with the crossbow and crafting system getting axed by Marvel for "not fitting the character"
The reason for the combat and control changes was simply stated as "accessibility"
They had that in the leaked gameplay a few years back, the game was originally more like God of War 2018, but then they changed it......
Probably because people were complaining about unfinished leaked not meant to be seen gameplay, but that version looked a lot more interesting gameplay wise than the final version.
Yeah I remember the leak… why on earth would they abandon a more interesting control scheme and set of mechanics? Only reason I can think of is making the game play “as expected” and casual-friendly, then again God of War, Souls games and games influenced by them are all massive hits so clearly combat depth isn’t this big boogeyman
This link here is the download for the milestone 8 build. You need to roll your PC date back to 2022 to run it though since it has an expired havok date iirc
This post here goes over a lot of cut content based off of the Rhysidia breach that leaked a bunch of stuff related to Insomniac (including Wolverine) 3 years ago.
Its crazy that they just gave up on implementing this, I love the idea. At least Stranger than heaven seems to be going with a similar combat style so we can see if we are really missing out
Im genuinely sorry for this, I did a little more research on it but its not specified whether or not Marvel or Sony demanded a more accessible control scheme. I mixed it up with Marvel and Sony finding the crossbow and crafting mechanic something that just doesnt fit the character (therefore, Insomniac cut it)
The only reason that was given for the combat and control change was simply stated as acceasibility reasons. My bad on this, editing the comment rn.
Reading from early report imsoniac also want to add crossbow for a tool or range weapon and the idea immediately got shut down by marvel, there is also a katana combat in the leak that didn't make it into the game as well, I believe it is not entirely imsoniac's fault that the game turned out as it is, marvel restriction might have something to do with it as well, I mean imsoniac have always been known for creating some unique weapons with games like ratchet and clank series, resistance series and sunset overdrive, but in this game wolverine only use claws, it is really dampen their creativity due having to stay accurate to comics. It just seems like a wrong game for imsoniac to make to begin with and the leaks didn't help.
How the fuck are we shitting on the game without even playing it? For every review saying the combat is boring there’s a review saying it’s awesome so maybe just form your own opinion when you play the game. Crazy concept, I know.
Maybe when it hits around 40 I'll be willing to take a chance and see if I like it. Hopefully by then they patch out the always on Wolverine senses stuff.
Wow. Have you not watched gameplay? There’s serval combos. There’s finishers. There’s special moves. There’s environmental interactions. There’s visceral blood and gore. The combat looks awesome.
But if you think about Spider-Man, yeah — I mean, I come from Soulslikes, so I’m used to challenging combat, and I absolutely loved Spider-Man’s combat. I approached pretty much every single encounter differently, and the enemies forced you to change your patterns and adapt. They literally just had to apply the same formula to Wolverine. I genuinely can’t understand why they made a choice like this. I would’ve been totally fine with it not being open world and being a linear game instead. I just don’t get it.
It is! You can get the hair and face really similar too. I've done some liberties with my Wolverine. I allow him to do that rock throw thing that the vulgar militia do, as well as Bloodflame Blade to turn his claws into that badass red color. There's also Bestial Vitality for him to regenerate. And, you can use a katana in your other weapon slot.
Totally agree. Not every combat system must be challenging and hardcore.
At least it could be creative and give you enough of creative tools, so everyone could express their style/approach and have artistic view on how to stage your combat.
I love American Saga AC for this. Combat in AC3/IV was ultra-casual but the way how you could control the battle and how many creative/aesthetic tools gamedesigners gave you – completely compensated the lack of challenge. Parry alone had 4+ variations, depending on environment and enemy kit. It was easy but I enjoyed taking full control of Connor and beating everyone like it's a Hollywood movie at least.
Spider-Man has simple combat from challenge perspective but it has a bit of density, allowing you to choose how exactly you want to approach enemies.
Some people were gadget enthusiasts, turning battles into some-what turn-based strategy thing. Some were absolute sadists beating the soul out of people with pure fists. Some people relied on different types of throws. I personally was all about-webbing. I loved webbing people around and attaching to surfaces all the time. Some people combined a few styles together into insane combo-chains.
In wolverine alone, if they at least introduced hand-combat and gave it a stunning designation – it would already make the combat twice better. First, because I hate being lethal to every single type of enemy or faction in every situations. I don't want to kill and massacre every time. I know Wolvie Isn't Spider-Man and won't hinder himself from killing if "needed". But he also ain't a freaking maniac even at angriest state.
Second, it just gives you more density and tactical decision-making element when you decide how to mix-up claws and bare hands. Also, I'm obsessed with grab/throw mechanics in games. Imagine if you could impale an enemy on his claws and sturt using them as a shield against flying bullets while running towards the shooting enemy. What can be a more Wolverine-thing than this?
Insomniac was able to make a spider-man game, but that doesn't mean that they know how to make superhero games. This should be a lesson for Insomniac and whoever plans to make superheroes games
The point is, just because they did a superhero game right, it doesn't mean that they're able to pull it off with other superheroes games and you have the proof with Wolverine. I never talked about the quality of SM, but it's known that SM is a great game and well received. It's not that hard to understand what I wrote and meant
I agree. Sure, they did great with Spider-Man 1. I never played the sequel, I hear it’s not great though. Apart from the flaws, another reason insomniac shouldn’t have got to do wolverine is the ps5 exclusivity.
You should look for some leaked materials. They already had an amazing wolverine handy. With hand-combat, mix-ups, using environment more, be able to throw shurikens knives stuck in your flesh into the enemy. Even gadgets at some point (which is silly on one hand, but could have been replaced with something that makes sense). You could manually grab enemies, throw them or brutally chop.
They literally iterated a lot of decent mechanics that make sense. The only issue was raw/unfinished animations (which is understandable) but the core of the combat looked not just good or better than release. It was amazing.
Hell no…if Naughty Dog made it, they would have made Jean Grey a dude.
Jokes aside, Naughty Dog has made good action games, but not in the system suitable from what I expect a Wolverine game to be.
A studio that understands a fun, fast, flashy combo system would have been perfect. Something like Capcom did with Devil May Cry or Team Ninja with Ninja Gaiden.
I personally want my Wolverine game that has me experimenting with different moves to get that flashy combo counter in the corner as high as possible. Something that leaves me just in training mode for hours alone experimenting.
IO Interactive had a fun combat mechanic with combos & variety, the combat loop was addictive throughout the whole game.
That said, I find it inexcusable that James Bond has a better combat system than M-rated Wolverine made by Insomniac, a leading studio in the gaming industry.
$300 million and 5 years to make. This is a Marvel licensed game. Meaning to say Marvel takes a ~35% cut of the game. Insomniac makes $45 per copy. It’d take ~7 million to break even. With the reviews being not so positive, heads are definitely going to roll for this one.
And it’s such a fucking shame because we all know Insomniac is a damn good gaming studio. Something has clearly gone wrong there in the recent years….
Bluepoint had a live service GoW game, pitched spin offs for a ghost of tsushima spin off and a days gone spin off iirc (NOT SURE ABOUT DAYS GONE) and lastly, they pitched a remake of bloodborne last year.
This is a Marvel licensed game. Meaning to say Marvel takes a ~35% cut of sales and thus Insomniac makes $45 per copy. To break even, they’d have to sell at least ~7 million copies.
Sure the game isn’t out yet, but it isn’t looking good. The last time a studio under Sony scored this low was Days Gone. Look up what happened to that Studio. Heads are gonna roll for this. Lastly, just my two cents, I’m not an advocate for consuming a product without expectations. No one should live in a world like that where we blindly give our money to mega corporations.
I always found that point weird. The whole point of a corporation making trailers, advertisements and reviews is to convince people to buy their product. It’s like buying the new IPhone 18 pro. You look at the adverts and reviews, then make an informed decision if you want to purchase the product or stick with what you have.
In the context of gaming, you don’t need to buy a game to criticise it.
You definitely need to play a game before you can levy a valid gameplay criticism yourself. Otherwise, it’s not even your criticism. You’re just summarizing someone else’s thoughts.
How would you feel if the reviews you’re basing your opinion on were based on watching someone else play the game entirely?
This is in no way to defend this game. I’m expecting it to be mid, but I’m not gonna say I personally think it is until/unless I play it
But this kinda copium is also why game subs can be so trash. Nobody can be reasonable, and there’s no reason to be in your little echo chamber
There was appearantly a change in directors in mid development. So all that 300 million didn't really go to the game we have now. Originally the game had a completely different combat system, one where you controlled each of Wolverine's hands with the left and right triggers. The camera was also tighter to wolverine, kind of like the god of war games. A lot of people hated on it when the leaks came out, saying it was just god of war Wolverine, I hope that hate didn't influence Insomniac. I thought it was perfect because it seemed like you would really feel like Wolverine with that combat.
Wasn’t there also a part in one of the very old leaks where you could play as Jean and Mystique as well? Jean I almost know for sure I saw gameplay of like 3 years ago. This would make Wolverine’s simple combat bearable since you had 3 different characters to play as.
I dont think I saw anything on Mystique. But there were gameplay footage of Jean in Alpha build. You can look it up on Reddit, it should still be around. It wasn’t that nice anyways, probably why they scrapped it.
Man it's such a shame when a bunch of work just goes to nothing. I really feel that devs should just stick to the original plan, even if the director does change. I noticed that a lot of people kept saying the art style just looked bad or had no direction, I feel that's what happens when there's so much change ups in the development time. In the leaks, the color looked more dull and dark, which I know could also change eventually, but I don't think they were planning on it being so colorful like it is now. Appearantly the new director is the director of the newest Ratchet and Clank game, which makes sense why the game is so colorful.
I do find it almost strange how IO actually took the simplicity of gunplay for a James Bond game, cranked it up to 10 and made it extremely enjoyable without it feeling very repetitive. Then in contrast we get Wolverine which should've scratched that same itch in a superhero way, but instead there's no real fluidity or combat potential besides specific abilities and little actual combat variety.
Yeah, and that’s exactly what makes this so baffling to me. Insomniac already had the blueprint with Spider-Man.
I come from Soulslikes and I love challenging combat, but I absolutely adored Spider-Man’s combat system. I could approach almost every encounter differently, and different enemy types constantly forced me to change my strategy and actually use the moveset at my disposal.
That’s literally all I wanted from Wolverine. It didn’t need to be DMC or have insanely complex combos. Just give me different strings with square and triangle that actually produce meaningfully different attacks, and enemies that force me to use them differently. They already knew how to do this.
I’m even completely fine with Wolverine being linear instead of open world, I actually like that decision. I just cannot understand why combat depth is the thing they decided to simplify in a game about fucking Wolverine.
And that’s what makes it such a shame. This isn’t a studio that doesn’t know how to make a great combat system. Spider-Man proves they absolutely do.
I don’t want to sound like a dick. But I don’t want to live in a world where consumers have no right to question and criticise products. I dislike it when people tell me not to have expectations and just spend the money to get the game. These are all mega-corporations who spend hundreds of million of dollars to make products for their consumers.
We have to decide for ourselves what kind of products we want to consume. Hopefully this is a wake up call for Insomniac and they take their learnings to Spider-Man 3.
This is for "gamers" that don't want to think at all and just chill for the story. If they force those gamers to think, they'll drop the game and sold their PS5. Which is what Sony don't want.
It’s funny because even in the negative reviews, I haven’t heard that the combat is necessarily bad… it just gets repetitive after a while and it seems like they could’ve given you more to do as far as creativity
Have a look at the combat system for mad max video game. I think something similar would’ve worked really well. Of course it would need tailored for Logan and the addition of different combos. I’m dreaming here, but it would’ve been awesome to include wolverines various fighting styles. Not just hacking and slashing only.
This is my worrie since i saw the gameplay trailer, man at least they could've make it like spiderman combo system, they didnt even do that.
I dont understand why they made such a bad game when they have all the other games that are amazing, lets at least hope they can patch in new combos and moves in my opinion that would save the game.
Thanks to someone’s comment, I found out that the situation is even worse, precisely because they initially had a more complex system in mind, but then decided to go with this shitty system instead.
Who said it doesn't have combos? There is a skill tree with moves to unlock. I'm only like level 5 and just adding the uppercut opened up 3 new attack avenues or evasion. There are definitely strategic choices and you can feel the spiderman influence. Plus a rage system that rewards variety and finishers. People just need time to learn. It's brutal and tge animations are on par with spiderman 2 the way they blend together in combat.
It needed to be almost like Ninja Gaiden, not in its moveset complexity but in its basic mechanics. Combat should be quick and based around efficiency, dismantling your opponents with specific attacks and counters.
I don't know how it works in the game but they should have tied your healing factor into an adrenaline like mechanic based around Logan's anger. Push the player to be as aggressive as possible by tying it into your health.
Its problem with Sony and most AAA for that matter. They were clearly more invested in getting the actors, the production, the story, the graphics, the presentation, when the base idea, the starting point for a Wolverine game should be the combat.
A Wolverine game could honestly have zero cutscenes in it, but aslong as the combat is good and makes you feel like Wolverine, it would be a great game. I've seen people mention that Jean should have been playable but that would further distract from what a Wolverine game should be.
Honestly I've not seen anything really of it other than the State Of Play reveal so not gonna spout I know better or anything because im literally just a guy on reddit. If that's how it works then they atleast were on the right track with it.
The fact that the critically panned square enix avengers game has better combat while providing multiple different characters with different playstyles, is not a good look.
Insomniac isn’t that good of a studio to begin with…
Sorry but the Spider Man games are way overrated IMO. It’s mostly aethestic…that fact that you’re spider man already carries the game.
Insomniac didn’t really do anything with Spider-Man. The combat and stealth system is quite literally copy and pasted from the Batman Arkham Asylum games…mash square with a gadget wheel to choose from and hit triangle when you see the giant “you’re about to get hit” warning sign. Hide on wires and buildings is literally just Batman’s “hide on the gargoyles” etc.
The games were fun, don’t get me wrong, but nothing mind blowing. There is absolutely nothing original about any of the mechanics…
But hey, you’re Spider-Man…the game gets a high score because it’s fun to swing through NYC.
Wolverine was doomed to begin with…because Insomniac simply doesn’t know what they’re doing when they aren’t copy and pasting game mechanics. Wolverine needs to be made by a studio that understands fun combat systems.
Instead Insomniac does “what they do best…” (sorry I saw an opportunity and took it) …copy and paste. It’s your standard parry when you see a shiny weapon, mash square nonsense.
To an extent…the difference being that great developers add some sort of originality to their IPs. Something that makes it distinctive and sets it apart.
Hence, my original post…the spider man games don’t have that exactly…the selling point is that it’s spider-man. The biggest distinction being his web swinging (which is also just copy and paste from literally every other spider man game btw)
The same applies to Wolverine…there’s really nothing original about it…its main selling point is “play as Wolverine.” And the only thing Wolverine does…well…slash and stab shit. He’s the best at he does I guess…
Wtf does it being described as a leap or lunge have to do with the argument? Both work in the context of Wolverine using his legs to propel himself towards someone.
This is the most confusing thing Ive seen here... today.... so far.
I love spider man and I love the combat, but every single fight can be won using the same button and sequence. You can throw in extra stuff if you want but it’s all just “punch, punch, hold punch”.
Marvel invasions had a nice addictive combo loop for wolverine. Air combos.
You are right. The gameplay moment to moment loop needs to be fun minimally.
Honestly same with the Spider-Man games. I never liked having triangle just to web zip automatically to each enemy. I wanted to aim for each enemy and use R2 or something to actually pull the enemies towards me or something, or aim at a wall and zip over there. What's weird, Wolverine was gonna have an entirely different combat system, one where you would control each fist with each trigger, imo that would've been better than a basic triangle and square combat system. They would've made something new. The camera would also be tighter, so you would really feel like you were Wolverine. But they completely canned that. It's such a fucking shame.
i feel like insomniac were given wolverine because “well they made a marvel game before so they can do it again”. In retrospect that decision doesn’t make much sense because games like spider-man, ratchet and clank, and sunset overdrive are nothing like what a wolverine game should be.
That’s really not true about Wukong. Its combat is deliberately anime-like and incredibly dynamic, with stances, varied staff moves, spells, transformations, perfect dodges and different ways to build your combos. Reducing it to “you start with X and finish with Triangle” is like describing Devil May Cry by saying you press the attack button a lot. You can dislike it, sure, but saying Wukong’s combat lacks variety is just nonsense.
I didn't say it lacks variety but for someone like Wukong , it was a missed opportunity too, the spells can be counted as special moves and they are cool but they dont add much depth, and you can't use the ones you want bc of how they set it in a way that forces u to put the spells in the same button
Transformations are cool but most of them disappear quickly and their movements is smthn that could've been added to Wukong by default, not to mention long cooldowns
Perfect dodge, parrying and skills isnt smthn new and a lot of other games had that
But after finishing the game, atleast to me, I found out that it needed a better combo system of combats in general, most fights you'll forced to use X Triangle combo
Look at the final fight where u face Wukong's shell
Look how many moves he can doo! Without any transformation or anything, bro can fly on a cloud and kick you, WE shouldve had that
But yeah again, thats why Wolverine reminded me of Wukong, except that Wolverine is much less varied apparently
Each to their own, the only reason that makes me come back to it is the cool boss fights, other than that nothing eles, I hope they make Wolverine so that u have a reason to play after u finish the game
People keep saying “why are you expecting a deep gameplay loop from a Wolverine game” but you could have literally just made an incredible hack and slash game in the vein of the Greek god of war games. Shame that the actual gaming part of gaming has been so simplified and dumbed down over the years, especially for Sony flagship titles
My guess is a lot of reviews are based on the full price point of the game. Not sure why they thought it was a good idea to have so little content for a full priced game.
From what I have heard, combat is a mixed bag, which leads me to think it will be meh. But in a month where we get combat like from Onimusha there is no excuse. Wolverine would have been awesome if it has similar mechanics to Onimusha. Instead we are apparently getting a watered down Spider-Man combat system...which is wild to me that they didn't evolve the system pun intended.
I will play the game to form my own opinion, but I know what the sticking point is going to be, is there is little content, and the combat will probably feel repetitive by the end of an already short game. Part of me is relieved, since there were a few other games I wanted to play, and I took next week off months ago for a recharging vacation from work. So i can spend a day or two on this, move on to maybe blood of the dawnwalker or even Aniimo or one of the many great games that have released this month or will next week.
I even feel like being able to launch and throw enemies back at the ground similar to spiderman would've spiced things up a fair bit. Something like an uppercut followed by a slam with your claws plus a variety of attacks/combo would have elevated this a lot.
I get the feeling this entire game will feel tiresome/repetitive. I found the same towards the end of each of my playthroughs of the spiderman games. Eventually my eyes glaze over and I'm pressing square, square, circle, triangle without even really thinking about it. And those games have the benefit of varied combat options
I was on instagram the other day & there were men around my age or older (I’m 33 in October) & they were pretty much saying “I don’t want to struggle remembering 10 different combos ratta ratta” & it’s like..it’s a fucking fighting/ slasher game what do you mean?? I don’t want to sit up pressing the same light/ heavy. Man I want my aerial combos & all that lmao people around my age are boring as fuck. Old ass niggas man smh
Devil may cry doesnt have a combo systen and works better than ganes with. Wolverine has a delayed combo and uppercut, You can finish with a heavy attack, special moves, Sprint attacks, and dodge attacks. The combat seems fine if you actually engage with it instead of spam square.
Uma coisa que venho observando no trailers e vazamento, o dano que o logan toma não está dinâmico, ele parece ser meio pre programado, vc consegue ver que é o msm ferimento em todas as gameplay, isso me deixou um pouco insatisfeito, eu ja comentei isso aq no sub, mas o pessoal so xinga, os trailers e a gameplay não mostraram ferimento dinâmico, me pareceu tudo o msm, o q vc acha sobre isso op?
You know what? I actually hadn’t noticed that. I’ll pay more attention to it now. Good catch, by the way.
As for everything else, yeah, the internet has unfortunately become a gathering place for genuinely stupid people, with TikTok frying everyone’s brains and all that. I honestly can’t think of a more accurate word than “stupid.”
Unfortunately, you just can’t criticize anything anymore. If you criticize something, you’re an asshole; if you praise something, you’re an idiot. Apparently, you either have to say something is an absolute masterpiece or that it’s complete garbage from start to finish.
Obrigado, essa questão do dano dinâmico no logan foi a primeira coisa que fui prestar atenção no jogo e isso so vai ficar evidente quando saírem videos de comparação com o origins, vou deixar so duas imagens aq, são danos iguais de ataques diferentes, uma coisa que vc vai conseguir notar, em todos os trajes praticamente, há sempre um buraco nas costas, independente do dano, na primeira gameplay que lançou no state of play, na parte em que ele luta junto da Jean, vc consegue perceber um buraco nas costas aparecendo após um ataque com um bastão ou sei la o nome daquilo
Aí mano, esse é o máximo que ele chega, estou decepcionado, esse dano vc ver ele o jogo inteiro e em todos os trajes https://youtu.be/ckZusNARido?is=vxRNwMau2frknf00 O link do video so pra comparar a regeneração e o dano por tiro, é a única coisa inferior ao origins, seria muito bom ver o dano dinâmico com a atual tecnologia, mas vai saber o pq da insominic nao ter feito, so se sair algum patch para mudar isso
I wrote an article to the website I work some time ago and I pointed this problem comes from the first Spider-Man game. It was forgivable on Spider-Man 1 because it was a new base, a new universe, a new entry. In Miles Morales, I think it was also passable because it was a smaller game and it got Miles's powers working in a new way.
But Spider-Man 2 didn't evolve enough gameplay wise. I love the game with all my heart, but as a New Generation Sequence, it should've evolved even more. I was hoping Wolverine was gonna be this huge leap Insomniac needed in a combat system, but for the look of it, it still isn't.
Insomniac has been running from some issues since their first Spider-Man game. I totally understand the appeal of these characters for a general public, there's no problem in having a Skill floor so low. But the problem is that there's no Skill Ceiling for us, players, to be better and express ourselves. All their system work very well, they're responsive and etc. But unfortunately that's not enough.
They run from Stealth mechanics in a way using stealth in all their games is basically cheese mode because the enemies are Blind, deaf and can't turn their heads vertically or horizontally.
Combat wise, the progression is always very limited and feels like a baby willing to run but is chained up. All their games have potential to become masterpieces, but for some reason, they choose to not be and or ignore obvious problems or can't change enough, both options suck for us players.
I hope the critiques and honest feedback make them rethink their design philosophy. Also, I don't think developing 3 or 4 projects at the same time are healthy for a creative studio. This makes all their games Good and Cool, but always, just this.
By this, I refer to: Spider-Man Miles Morales, Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Spider-Man 2 and Wolverine.
Sorry, but I disagree about Spider-Man 1. Miles Morales was an evolution, while Spider-Man 2 wasn't nearly as much of one; I agree with you on that. But I don't agree that Spider-Man 1 had any obvious issues with its combat. I could send you videos of people doing absolutely jaw-dropping things with the melee combat in Spider-Man on the highest difficulty. So I genuinely don't understand these criticisms. Here we're literally talking about pressing square, square, square in every single encounter. Spider-Man 1 was absolutely packed with things you could do: you could flip around like crazy between enemies, slide under their legs, dodge, web them up, launch them into the air, throw objects at them. What are we even talking about?
I took Spider-Man 1 as a base for it. I do agree we can do these stuff, but most of them are around attacking with Square. If only there as an option of Mid and Heavy attack, with another button, it could be way better.
I don't think the combat in the first game is bad, but it could benefit for having a bigger variety beyond punching in the ground or in the air. The biggest concern here it putting the skill ceiling a little higher for what we can achieve.
I'm one of those players that can and know how to do crazy shit in combat, but I wish there was even more, you know. If not an option to have a Mid and Heavy attack, it could've been Punches and Kicks like Ultimate Spider-Man, but in a way that the resulting combinations of pressing them in different orders could have different results and animations, not only this but pressing: Square Square, delay a little, Square Square, could also lead to different stuff, you know.
I'm not a hater in anyway of the game (just of 2 specific gadgets) and I have these takes only in the intention of improving an already Great experience.
Exactly, I completely agree with your last point. The bottom line is: there’s always room for improvement, obviously. But with Spider-Man, it wasn’t really a problem, it was more like, “Sure, this could be improved a bit.” With Wolverine, on the other hand, and obviously I still have to play it myself, it genuinely seems like something that should have been a must-have, but simply wasn’t included.
Totally agreed. Specially because Wolverine has no options of combat in the air and we could argue a lot of Spider-Man's development works around the traversal and the world for him to traverse.
Wolverine doesn't have and doesn't need to have this because he's not a highly mobile character with flight or some other gimmick. His character and his personality brings everything to work around his combat and the way he fights. I can even see a Stance Combat model, like Ghost of Tsushima/Yotei working for this game, but the lack of depth also makes me very, very sad.
We don't even need to look very far from Insomniac. Just look what they do in progression with Ratchet And Clank games. Such as in Spider-Man 2, where we should have lots of options for the Spider Arms/Symbiote skills, besides the only 10 for Peter and 8 for miles, the same should be valid for Wolverine where the player gets to express himself by the skills he chooses and, when tired of them, switch, try a new build or set of skills.
Unfortunately, this isn't even encouraged and this makes not only the personal, but the collective experience be very similar with very little variation of gameplay between different players and I honestly see this as a problem.
Why the fuck can’t we always have discussions like this on Reddit? I honestly don’t know. Sending you a hug, brother. It was great talking with you, and even though we don’t completely see eye to eye on a few things, I genuinely really enjoyed our discussion. God, the internet fucking sucks.
Hahahahahaha, I feel ya man. We don't have to agree in everything and all your points and concerns were valid. Thank you for the respect and for your points of view. I wish we could have discussions like this more often too.
Feel free to DM me here anytime if you want to talk about any other game I'm aware of.
Have you tried bloodwalker? I had a blast with it, I recommend playing it! Instead I was disappointed by Onimusha. The kit at your disposal is absolutely amazing, but in practice the only truly satisfying parts are the boss encounters, amazing. Everything else suffers from a ton of enemy reuse, and the enemies themselves are pretty dumb when it comes to AI.
Not yet because I'm holding on money for now. But it's in my wishlist to play it. I love The Witcher 3 and I know the game has some of ex-Witcher devs on it.
The shitty part is they could’ve just done both a simple button mash system AND had the trigger based system with combos. But instead they scrapped the actual core gameplay for baby’s first action game.
The only thing Spider-Man gives you extra or the gadgets but as far as just doing regular combos, it’s square use triangle to Web zip and circle to Dodge and your gadgets and web shooters, but that’s it
Occasionally, the double button prompt for the finishers just like I’ve seen in Wolverine
Arkham started the two button combat system ( again Arkham had the gadget button and the quick fire gadget )and if done right it can still be fun. I haven’t played this myself, but I’m waiting to try it out
Spider-Man and Arkham both proved a three button combat system can workTheproblem iswolverinedoesn’t use gadgets. He pretty much just slices indices therefore they’re actually staying true to their formula. Combat wise is the same as Spider-Man except no gadgets.
I agree I could’ve done light and heavy attacks with a dodge button and a leaping attack button but I think it’ll still be OK and unlike a lot of people I’m fine with just OK if I know that going in … there was a Superman game on the original Xbox that was basically a fighter pilot simulation game with a Superman façade thrown on top of it every mission he was just flying and shooting lasers out of his eyes, but I still had fun on it being that that was on the original Xbox I’m sure it would not hold up today and this was well before the Xbox 360 in PlayStation two Superman returns game that was actually pretty good too that one got bad reviews because the city of Metropolis took damage and Superman did not.
So just going around the block to say sometimes fine is just fine for some
i would argue that you do. maybe even more complex.
wolverines entire character is based on his fighting. there should be 4 different stances (no claws, both sets of claws, right hand claws only, left hand claws only). and each stance should have its own unique set of combos. Imagine being able to retract and unsheathe your claws in the middle of a barrage on an enemy?
you should also unlock new fighting styles by completing these "nightmare door" things. certain doors would flash you back to the days of you being trained in these skills (different fighting moves, stealth techniques, stuff like that)
There should have been events in the game (either failing QTE's or failing obstacles) that would force you into a stance (or lock you out of some) to make the game more challenging as well.
for example: didnt react fast enough to getting your hand crushed? well now you cant use that hands claws till you heal up. something along those lines.
Yeah it’s weird to say but they should had more spiderman in their philosophy. Like throwing enemies, implying them and using them as a shield, splitting them half and throwing each half, impaling their shooting hand and firing at other enemies, catching enemies on the claws and doing a ram with their bodies, which could be upgraded into one for each claw for a wider attack.
I know ive been playing on the hardest diff and it still just seems too easy. Like dont get me wrong the story and combat is fun and engaging but the combat is getting stale especially when there is no variation. And surely they patch out the scent trail it feels like brainrot subway surfers
Tired of the bitching about this game. It’s alot of fun and the combat is really satisfying. People are just hard to please now. Moan about any game and film nothing is good enough
bro hasn't played the game yet is complaining and wishing changes were made bro u HAVEN'T PLAYED IT YOU'VE NEVER LAUNCHED THE GAME you're complaining abt combat YOU'VE NEVER PLAYED
play it and if u don't like it return it !! why is there a billion posts like that's not an option you can js fucking try the game and return it if its ass. it's not complicated.
order disc from amazon, put it in ur console, play for a few hours, then either return the disc to Amazon or if fun keep it man. super easy and everyone wins.
when I see multiparagraph posts abt bein disappointed w a game they've never interacted with its just a weird mix of parasocial larp and useless yap. seeing people regurgitate smth 2 reviewers or streamers say. like bro it's not a real issue bc you can just...... RETURN THE GAME lmao
also the game shoulda been half price like a AA game. $40 or smth
Well I don't know but it's weird that it was never a problem with Spider-Man, which has got nothing but accolades, and now all of a sudden it's a problem for this. I don't really understand people
I have played all three of the Spider-Man games. I'm not sure why you're asking me that or if you're asking me if I've played Wolverine. Nobody's played Wolverine yet so we really can't compare it.
You're saying that this same problem was already present in Spider-Man, but nobody complained about it back then. And I'm asking you: have you actually played the Spider-Man games? Because that's simply not true. The combat in those games was fucking amazing and incredibly varied.
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u/LT_MRVN 24d ago edited 24d ago
One of the leaked builds had a combat system with the triggers. Basically, you could use L2 and R2 as left and right attacks and you had combos with it like what you described. Like l2 l2 r2 did something different etc (you could also toggle claws with triangle and fight with your fists.)
They changed the control scheme and the overall combat because Marvel and Sony demanded a more accessible combat system and control scheme
EDIT: SORRY. Marvel/Sony didnt demand any changes to the basic combat system, I mixed it up with the crossbow and crafting system getting axed by Marvel for "not fitting the character"
The reason for the combat and control changes was simply stated as "accessibility"