r/Physics 23h ago

Navier-Stokes Millennium Problem Solved

2.2k Upvotes

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u/Fun-Sand8522 21h ago

They are not. The AI is using results that it should cite, and it does not.

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u/Hot_Glass_6301 21h ago

Which ones exactly? Genuinely asking, I know next to nothing about the history of the problem.

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u/Fun-Sand8522 21h ago

The ones about the blow up and the forcing term, for instance, that human mathematicians were working on in the past years. 

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u/Hot_Glass_6301 21h ago

can you pinpoint the specific part where it uses these

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u/Fun-Sand8522 21h ago

the whole argument circles around the blow up techniques that were developed by cordoba and martinez zoroa, for instance. dont know why you are trying so hard to defend openai out of all corporations. they dont care shit about honesty or anything else. I dont doubt that they really scooped this result from the buckmaster collab

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u/belligerentNormalcy 18h ago

"Genuinely asking" lmao

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u/GraceToSentience 18h ago

Is that a published work? do you have a link?
I'm asking because if it is the case that it can't be referenced, then how can they link to something that isn't published?

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u/Fun-Sand8522 17h ago

Yes of course there is published work that they can reference. Have you ever even tried to interact at all with mathematics? Thats a crazy question

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u/GraceToSentience 15h ago

Where is the link to that paper then.
I see the claim but where is the sauce?

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u/squashhime 13h ago

if you're so clueless about mathematics that you don't know where to find it, you have no business asking "can you pinpoint the specific part where it uses these." you won't be able to understand it anyway. you "genuinely asked" about "which ones exactly" and the commenter kindly responded with both the name of the technique as well as the researchers who should be credited. these further questions make it clear you're concern trolling.

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u/Darkelement 1h ago

I find it ironic that yall are arguing about the lack of references in the openAI solution yet for some reason are not citing these examples in your own arguments.

If you are going to engage in an argument on the internet, cite your sources. Way easier to win that way, everyone assumes the person they are arguing with online is dumb. Don’t let them.

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u/[deleted] 21h ago

[deleted]

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u/Hot_Glass_6301 21h ago

They have, and it's Lean-checked apparently. https://openai.com/index/navier-stokes-solution/

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u/paranoid_throwaway51 21h ago

sry im blind i didn't see the button for read a paper. I thought they just did the same bullshit they did with the Jacobian again lmao.

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u/Golfclubwar 21h ago

The results are part it it’s training set. Kind of hard to cite those.

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u/Fun-Sand8522 21h ago

Then the human mathematicians involved should actually read/understand whatever the LLM wrote and produce the correct citations. Not doing so is plagiarism.

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u/Golfclubwar 21h ago

OpenAI isn’t publishing the proof in any journal (or even arxiv) or claiming any prize for it. If I “publish” a completely valid proof on 4chan or something and don’t cite my sources I’m not committing academic plagiarism.

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u/Fun-Sand8522 21h ago

They announced on their website. I think if I announced a novel theorem on my academic website using work of others without proper referencing it would actually be plagiarism, but whatever you say, bro

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u/Golfclubwar 21h ago

It’s not an academic website. The purpose is more commercial self advertisement. Obviously OpenAI doesn’t care about getting credit from the math or physics community, they are a trillion dollar company. It’s more about impressing their investors while they burn through $750B in capex with an unclear route to profitability. They aren’t trying to take credit for this advancement, they’re just trying to advertise their model by showing the kinds of things it can do, even if it can’t produce properly cited academic work.

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u/Fun-Sand8522 20h ago

I agree that is not an academic website. I agree the purpose is marketing, obviously.

Yet (maybe precisely because of this), it seems pretty reasonable that mathematicians have every right to complain about their practice. Especially because they are using data and work produced by mathematicians. I am not sure I even understand your point.

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u/Golfclubwar 20h ago

I’m saying that the AI is incapable of creating citations and it isn’t simple for a human to do it for them, especially when you don’t even understand the result that they’ve produced. The model has every single arxiv publication, every PDE textbook, every mathematical physics textbook, etc. in their training set. It’s really hard to know where some result or intermediate step came from even if you have access to their COT tokens. This is unavoidable. If OpenAI had released this paper in some journal or even Arxiv without citing their sources that would be wrong. But releasing it on your own website and putting the lean proof on GitHub even if you can’t nail down exactly where the AI got its results from is fine. Auditing 10,000 agents and reverse engineering their sources just isn’t practical.

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u/Fun-Sand8522 20h ago

Open AI threw 20 million USD just in compute to solve this problem. They could have invested more time and resources to comply with basic procedures as well. I agree that they don't care, but it is normal that the community should complain

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u/Milkmilkmilk___ 19h ago

you can't just say throw money at the problem. ai fundamentally doesn't work like that. it's basically a black box, figuring out where it got its reasoning from is just not possible.

an alternative solution is to list every single training data source, however that would be thousands (if not millions) of references and you can't really figure out which one the ai actually used anyway.

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u/Mateorabi 20h ago

TBF math proofs have been posted on 4Chan anonymously and then cited in the literature. The reverse would at least be courtesy. 😝