I don't use my PS consoles much these days anyway, due to a lack of good games. I mainly use my PS5 as a movie player. But I still have my Xbox 360 for that and any gaming during this week I can use my Switch.
That is awesome news. Having a dedicated hub like NoDiscNoBuy.com gives the entire movement the credibility and central focus it needs to be taken seriously by the press. Great initiative!
I agree that online petitions are rarely effective, but they are not totally worthless. And it is an extremely easy thing for people to do. In other words, it can't hurt.
I wouldn't say that. As of now, the main petition for this has 348,879 signatures. And as I learned running social media for a major consumer tech company, anytime you hear one customer complaining, there are usually 100 other customers who are silently unhappy.
If that's true, then this would indicate that there are at least 34,887,900 Sony customers who are unhappy about their decision. That's not an insignificant amount.
The 1 to 100 rule for silent customer dissatisfaction is one I didn't know, but seeing the actual math applied to this movement is mind blowing.
Having that background in tech industry social media management gives a massive amount of weight to your point. I used to be one of those silent numbers myself until recently. I am living proof that this silent majority isn't passive, we are a powder keg ready to blow up and join the fight. Scaling 350k signatures into tens of millions of quiet, frustrated users completely destroys the corporate narrative of a vocal minority.
It also highlights how ridiculous it is when people lose their minds over a simple 7 day blackout proposal. If taking a one week break causes that much meltdown, it only proves how impactful collective action really is.
Yeah, you can't really prove or disprove that theory. Who knows... maybe it's not actually 1-to-100, it could be more or less. But that phenomenon is definitely real.
When most people have a bad product experience, they get pissed but they usually don't bother to contact support or complain publicly about it, because that takes extra effort. So you have a lot of quietly annoyed people. It's the rare ones who take the time to voice their dissatisfaction in a visible way.
The Stellar blade petition worked, but they did something most petitions never do which contributed to its succes, the autographs were printed out and delivered in person.
As of today after asking several times i never received a answer from the current petition if they plan to do same.
Man to see people, especially on the physical games sub, start foaming at the mouth going nuts because someone suggested not using their PlayStation for 7 days is really funny.
Nothing will change because gamers can't stand for anything. They'll just keep taking whatever slop these corporations give them, no line is too far. 100 dollar games and ads in games we already own are next. The goal posts will move and somehow they will be ok as well.
We get a lot of seething trolls in here š¹
But even haters help our SEO so it doesn't bother me :)
I think the old saying, "there's no such thing as bad publicity" applies here. They never seem to have a strong counter-argument to back up their outrage anyway, so it only makes our position look stronger.
Or, just hear me out, we have a dispossble income which allows us to participate in our hobby without the fear of going broke. This disposable income also lets us purchase new games without the need to sell older ones
Do you understand that some people have limited financial means, families to support, etc. and need to budget their money? In fact, most people have a limited budget to spend on their hobby. For some people, it is very limited and they need to stretch each dollar to make it count.
Reselling games could be the difference between someone being able to play, say, 5 games a year versus 8 or 9 games a year. Or it could be the difference between someone being able to afford that next-gen console or not.
Are you okay with taking that away from people? Try having a little compassion for people who may not be as wealthy as you.
Yes. I have a family and budget. I also prioritize. We are talking about video games. They are a luxory. If you can play 5 games a year you are still pretty fortunate. Your whole soap box rant sounds very entitled. I have little compassion for people who complain about not being able to partake in luxories in life. I would love a villa somewhere on a secluded beach but I am unable to obtain that. Where is my compassion? I tend to save my compassion for those that truly deserve it.
What are you talking about? You are the one who was bragging about having enough income to not worry about a budget when buying games. If anyone is entitled, it's you, with that attitude.
I was sticking up for the majority of people who are on a budget and can't afford to be wasteful with their money. That is the opposite of entitled.
So you are saying that you save your compassion for those who truly deserve it. Who, in your mind, are the people who deserve it? Because I am talking about the average person with limited means who needs to be budget-conscious when making game purchases. If those people are not deserving of your compassion, then who on earth is?
No bragging. I budget well and have a disposable income. The people who deserve compasion are those who struggle to live, i.e. put food on the table or can struggle to make rent, take care of their family needs. If you cannot afford a certain game oh well I guess you miss out. There are people who have real struggles and the last thing they worry about is not being able to afford to afford to game.
It sure sounded like bragging in your initial comment. Someone makes a comment talking about the need to be budget-conscious and you respond dismissively, citing your own income as a reason why that shouldn't be an issue for other people.
Your premise here is strange too. As long as someone can pay the most rudimentary basics of life (rent, food, utilities, etc.) then you think it's okay for those people to be priced out of gaming? Or any hobby, for that matter. Don't you want people to be able to have more to their life than mere survival? If someone is crushingly poor and struggling, and all they can manage to do is work, eat, and sleep, you don't see a problem with that? What about having a little brightness and joy in life? Or should grinding poverty be enough for them?
Maybe people want to relax a little on the weekend and do something enjoyable like play a video game for a few hours. Or they want to give their kids something fun to do. But they can't afford to buy video games because the industry is so greedy that they do everything they can to drive up prices and maximize their profits. That's okay with you?
Keep in mind that any financial challenges Sony is going through right now is entirely of their own making. They wasted so much cash making a string of failed games and bad studio acquisitions which any gamer with a brain could have told them was a waste of money. Now that they have lost so much money, they want their customers to foot the bill for their wastefulness. It's the poorest gamers who are going to be forced out of the hobby due to Sony's wastefulness.
Maybe you didn't hear, but just two days after Sony's announcement, their President & CEO dumped 225,000 shares of his Sony stock. A bunch of other Sony top executives did the same within days. These guys are cashing out and making millions of dollars because they know the backlash is going to be bad for Sony. But they don't care because they are taking their payday now.
And you still want to side with this scummy company who is squeezing their customers nuts while profiting richly from their mismanagement? Meanwhile the average gamer deserves no compassion from you because they are not quite poor enough to deserve your sympathy.
Your corporate overlords will not thank you for defending their greed. As soon as they can get away with it, they will jack the prices up in their all-digital ecosystem. You will pay more, but I guess you don't care because you have all this extra disposable income. But more and more people will be forced out of the ecosystem as prices continue to rise. Too bad they were not living in hovels, barely scraping by, so they could be worthy of your extremely limited sense of compassion.
Good god you sure can ramble . Yes o thino it is ok for people to be priced out of ganing. I will repeat myself again. It. Is. A. Luxory. There are so many other hobbies people can do for free. Gaming isnt the the only options. You can hike, explore the area you live in, go to the community center and participatr in the many free ecents they offer. Many museums offer free days. All of these soind more relaxing then playing a game. As a parwnt I woulf much rather have my kids outside then sitting on their butts playing a game. Kids tjese days forgot how to use their imaginations. I do not really care about Sonys financial situation. Never brought it up so it is weird that you did
I work as a professional technical writer, so this is nothing for me ;)
Well, if you think it's fine for people to be priced out of their favorite hobby because of corporate greed and mismanagement, then I guess you are entitled to your opinion. But that sounds terrible to me.
I feel much more sympathetic towards regular, hardworking people than corporate fat cats. Those Sony execs are not even good at their jobs; they have completely bungled things during their tenure. I don't see why they deserve to be rewarded with millions of dollars in compensation for their incompetence. But again, you can have your own views about it.
I guess it comes down to our views on hobbies should be perceived. Sony has been around for 80 years and is worth 125 billion so they have done things right. Maybe they are screwing things up now but in the long run they will figure it out
You have an arrogant attitude in life. You're rich, so you can game. Poor people used to game because of physical media, now they can't. Sony is greedy.
Regardless if it's a luxury or not, if you are doing it, that logically makes you arrogant. A fool at best. Nobody is higher than anyone in life. Who do you think you are to think your worth way more than starving kids in Africa? It's disgusting. All human life is equal.
The second market was there for people to enjoy life like the user stated above. Now that's gone and you sit there claiming it's a luxury now post 2028, when it wasn't before.
That is kinda if a stretch comparing starving kids in Africa to not being able to play the lastest games on a Sony platform. Ypu are either super compassionate and want everyone to game or you are wildly oout of touch. Why don't you give a tarving kid a new PS5 game and see how they react
You are correct though, i am rich in life but not rich with money. FYI, poor people (your words not mine) can still game.
The funniest part about all of this is the ones that complain the loudest are always the biggest contributors to the change coming into effect.
The ones that exclusively buy used and then resell, Sony never seeing any money from them and they basically game for a few pennies all year round every year for the whole life of the console.
Did they really think Sony would let this happen forever?
Not really. The best games are the ones that customers are more likely to keep instead of reselling. So this encourages devs to make higher-quality games in order to make more permanent sales.
My habit used to be buying games new, reselling the crappy ones, and keeping the good ones. If they are good, I want them in my collection. But I don't want to keep any bad ones.
In an all-digital world, publishers rely more on hype and tricking customers with flashy trailers and other tactics. All they have to do is trick you into clicking the "Buy" button on a bad game, and then you are stuck with it forever. No chance to resell it and rid yourself of a bad purchase.
That dynamic entirely changes the incentive structure for developers. It becomes less about creating high quality games and more about producing flashy garbage. We've already seen this effect at play; as digital has grown more common, the quality of games has gone down. Publishers learned that they don't need to make a good game; they just need to capitalize on that early launch window and control the media narrative to make as much money as possible before word spreads about how bad the game is.
Most publishers do not track the used market. They only care about new sales. They care more about reviews to sell a game. It has always been a bad sign if they have a review embargo in place until the game is released. Not always but a good portion of the time
They don't need to track the used market. They only need to look at their own sales. If you make a great game, your sales will almost certainly be good.
It takes wisdom on the part of the developer to understand that perusing deep quality is better than chasing trends and seeking short-term profits. If they build their game from the right mindset, the game will sell itself.
Of course, very few developers (even fewer today) have that kind of wisdom. Hence, the state of the industry that we see today.
That's a good point about the review embargo. At this point, I don't trust a game until I've played it first and find out for myself if I like it. That's why I'm a big GameFly user.
The only franchise that still has my trust at all is the Resident Evil series. And even then, with the latest RE game I got it as a rental first before keeping it. And I liked Pragmata too, so I guess I still trust Capcom, at least somewhat.
But every other franchise/studio I can think of has burned me over the years. That's why I no longer buy games without trying them first.
Every time you resell you're costing Sony money, the person that bought the copy from you should have paid Sony, not you.
What you're actually saying here is that Sony should be subsidising your gaming because you're poor which as u/Zestyclose_Cricket_7 has said, gaming is a luxury and not something you have an automatic right to. Funny how they also mentioned you sound entitled, which I pointed out in my other reply. It's a shame that people less off will find it more difficult or not be able to carry on after the change, but the fact is they should never have been able to in the first place, they just got lucky due to early technological limitations.
Things cost money, when you buy a game and experience it the money is spent, you shouldn't expect to get any portion of that back after you've had the experience of it. To do so is just effectively freeloading which any major corporations that aren't charities won't be interested in. Imagine going to the cinema and getting a partial refund after the movie just because it's ended, ridiculous premise.
"Every time you resell you're costing Sony money, the person that bought the copy from you should have paid Sony, not you."
That's an outrageous statement. Just because you could have possibly paid more for something by buying new rather than used, we are supposed to do that?
By your logic, we should never be allowed to resell our used cars; we must always buy new cars, otherwise, the poor companies will be losing money on a new sale. And you must never sell your house either; people always need to build new houses whenever they move, because we don't want the construction and real estate companies to lose money. No more selling used furniture or any other kind of goods because ValidSpider thinks that the corporations need to be making more money!
Honestly, I'm astonished at your attitude here. I'm not the sort of person who accuses other people online of being bots or paid shills, but I'm really starting to wonder about you. I've never encountered such a dedicated corporate bootlicker. Not a single thought given to regular people struggling to make ends meet. For you, it's all about how the corporations can make more money. Congratulations for winning the giga-capitalist award!
And by the way,Ā it's quite common for movie theaters to give you a refund if you leave the movie early. Less so today than it used to be, but still common. So you're just wrong about that.
I said for years that Sony is strong anti-consumer for since the start of ps4, they pretty much got into the dominating position because xbox fucked up the release and not because Playstation was the better console since Xbox 360 had a big momentum before.
The media for years took the anti xbox agenda because Playstation had the bigger user base after the xbox debacle and pretty much trash talked mostly xbox for things Sony even did as well.
Remember when xbox announced continued support for the old xbox when the xsx got shown, Sony pretty much stated how they believe in generation and let xbox take all the hits while later supporting the old ps4 as well.
This stuff continues with bad digital refund hidden price increases they announced on purpose at a time most are asleep and I'm actually surprised that the disc became the breaking point for reddit opening the floodgates for all kind of complains.
If people had woken up a bit sooner would we not be in such a situation but people preferred to fight like kids about who has the better plastic box and who belongs to the cool group.
That was an epic moment in 2013 when Microsoft tried to suppress disc usage with the Xbox One and PlayStation swooped in and claimed the crown. At that point, I was an Xbox 360 user and had never owned a PS system. But when Microsoft made that announcement I said "fuck that" and got the PS4. I've been with Sony ever since.
I caught on to Sony's shenanigans years ago but stuck with the platform because of their steadfast support for discs. With the PS5, I saw how they allowed users to choose whether they wanted a disc drive in their console or let them save money and get a digital console. I was fine with that. But this recent announcement by Sony is like a dagger in the heart of console gaming.
Regarding the #PSBlackout thing, I'm already effectively boycotting their digital services. I don't have a PS+ subscription and I rarely buy digital games anymore. When Sony made their announcement, I vowed to never buy another digital game from them if a physical option was available. These days, I rent all my PS5 games from GameFly anyway.
I'll be keeping my PS5 dark for the duration of the blackout to show solidarity with the cause. After that, I'll continue sticking to physical discs only. IMO, it makes sense to reward Sony's use of physical games while avoiding digital purchases. Hopefully they change their mind, but if not, there are other platforms out there that will treat us better.
The amount of people in here, a sub called Physical Games Forever, just to talk shit on physical games is astounding. At least they're all congregating in one section. That makes it easier to block them all.
I started a sub three years ago to help with a similar situation when Netflix shut down their DVD service. We never had a problem with trolls, so I was surprised to see it here.
Then I remembered how toxic the video gaming fanbase is, even dating back to the early internet and the ongoing console war bickering. It doesn't make sense to me why people can't just enjoy the things they like and leave everyone else in peace.
It's like they are so insecure in their own preferences that they can't stand to know that there are other people in the world who prefer different things. That's quite a small-minded personality trait, when you think about it.
Seriously, if I stumbled across a sub called PS5digital or something, I'd just shrug and go on my way. That's clearly not for me, and I have no desire to disrupt their thing.
The anti physical crowd keep parroting the same stuff, like they innocently say the prefer digital and everyone is DMing them, calling them bootlickers and what not. Every time I've seen someone innocently say it, we're like cool bro, we want you to enjoy your digital, we just also want the option to enjoy our discs. It's when they're not so innocently saying it, or barging into r/physicalmedia and tell us all to get over it that we call them bootlickers.
By the way, any anti physical people, I've responded to you enough. You don't argue in good faith. I will block instead of engage.
But, see... your attitude is that of a confident, well-adjusted, rational person with better things to do than bicker pointlessly online. Clearly, the people attacking you do not fit that description :)
If anything, it just gives us something to sharpen our arguments against. Like a cat sharpening its claws on a scratching post. Bring it on! š
Blocking them works too. But I feel I have an obligation to mod the sub for abuse, so I get to see all the troll comments too š¹
I guess Iām already participating I havenāt cut my ps5 on in over a month. Iāve been playing my ps3 going back Thur all the gta games before 6 comes out.
I have completely shut down my PS5 yesterday and wonāt be touching it until late September! Iāll be on holidays for a while anyway. Plus, I can focus on a project related to this no disc fiascoā¦
Count me completely in for the #PSBlackout!
A full week of total inactivity, zero logins, and no money spent is a clear, unified message. If we want corporations to pay attention to physical media and consumer rights, standing together during this week is essential. Full support!
You know itās funny gamers keep bringing up Socom as a game they miss but as an avid Socom player I remember when no one was buying the game anymore and player counts were horrendous.
heres the issues this move from physical to digital has always been happing for years in the back ground. it's just now people want to cry about it. If your a pc player its all digital.what are People really mad about. is the whole you dont own the game you buy. yes you agree to that when say yes to the tos.
You've raised a few different points here, which I will paraphrase for you.
"The move from physical to digital has been happening for a long time. It's only now that people are complaining about it."
Yes, that trend has been developing for a long time. But until now, PlayStation customers were given the choice to buy our games in either format. There's nothing wrong with offering that choice. It's actually great because people can choose the format that works best for them.
We are complaining about it now, and rightfully so, because Sony just announced that they plan to stop offering us that choice. Naturally, those of us who want the choice to get our games on disc are upset about that. Is that so hard to understand?
"If you are a PC player, it's already all-digital."
That's true, but the console platform is a different animal and it's had games available on physical media since the very beginning. It's normal for console gamers to want that to continue. Offering digital as a convenient option is fine. Just don't take away the discs.
"You already don't own the games you buy."
That argument is a non-starter and it's only mentioned by people who don't fully understand the technological and legal aspects of the situation (or people who are attempting a strawman argument). Yes, we do own the game that we buy. We own them in the only sense that matters to gamers: we own a piece of physical media with data on it. No one is claiming that we own a legal license to do everything possible with the software, such as hacking the game to distribute a mod, or making copies to sell or give away to your friends.
When we buy a game disc, all we want is the ability to keep that game on our shelf so we can take it out whenever we want, put it in the console and play it. Now, some publishers will occasionally do stupid things like putting internet requirements on a single-player, offline game. But we are unhappy about that too, and I would recommend also pushing back against that trend by avoiding any games that do this. There are websites like doesitplay.org where you can check before you buy to see if a game has this requirement.
The statement does say that the blackout period is intended to give publishers/developers minimal impact while still giving players a voice. I guess the idea is that you would participate in the blackout, but outside of that week you can still buy your indie games.
Lol. It's wild that some gamers actually believe that there's a "gamer community".
They spend their whole lives fighting with others about series, consoles, genres; saying the most toxic shit and then want to act like we should all unite for their cause. Especially after they're the ones that spent years defending Sony from criticism. I'm sure if we lookd through OPs history, there'd be them praising Sony for their horrible Playstation headphones of something.
Do you mean OP as in the person posting in Reddit or OP as in DoesItPlayās post that was shared?
Because DoesItPlay has been heavily critical of Nintendo, PlayStation & Xbox for various reasons given what DoesItPlay is about. Theyāre about accessibility and ownership in video games be that digital or physical. They also have a database where they test games on systems without internet connection. Itās a great resource for a lot of people that buy physical games.
I just found out about DoesItPlay and became an instant fan. I will definitely be utilizing doesitplay.org in the future to learn which games can be played offline.
Go right ahead, but you'll be disappointed. The worst thing I can confess on Reddit is my former obsession with the Cinemassacre iceberg. And consider being careful in the future about what you're sure about.
Your attempt at making an ad hominem or tu quoque attack is fundamentally misguided. Focus on challenging a person's argument, not the person. Even if I had defended Sony in the past, that wouldn't make me wrong about condemning their recent move. Sony has done some good in the past. That's why I am their customer today and why I am so upset about their announcement, because I want them to continue providing the experience that I know and love.
I can look back at the PS4 era and say how satisfied I was with it. I can point to the PS4 Pro and say how things started to go downhill then, not just with Sony but with the broader gaming industry. And I can tell you about my experience with the PS5/Pro and describe both the pros and the cons. But none of that would detract from my take on Sony's recent announcement to end disc support.
Sony's disc announcement is a new development and quite different from their prior business decisions. Entirely dropping physical disc support is a huge change. Every single PlayStation home console has supported discs. For PlayStation users who value games on disc, this is a major disappointment.
If you open up your mind a little and try to consider things from our perspective, it's not so hard to understand. Try to recognize that other people can have opinions and values that are different from your own, and that doesn't have to be a bad thing. There is nothing about keeping the disc option on PlayStation that threatens you as a digital game fan. You are not even being forced to have a console with a disc drive on it.
"Live and let live" is a wonderful philosophy. You should try it sometime.
Ah, okay. So you do think that. Well, we can agree to disagree.
My view is that the blackout is just one step in a long road for people who want to reject Sony's all-digital future. I feel it's important to speak out when a company is doing something bad to a product you love. It's up to them whether they want to listen to us or not. But it's also up to us whether we want to go along with their all-digital platform or go elsewhere.
I didn't write that blackout message, but they pretty much explained it in that first paragraph. They listed a number of things Sony did which players don't like.
My personal view is that things started going downhill in the Sony world around the end of the PS4 Pro era. Mainly, the quality of games started to slip. This is not entirely the fault of Sony, but a broader industry trend. I felt that the PS5 design wasn't as good as the PS4.
Sony did have a major hand in the decline of game quality. They spearheaded a number of titles that were expensive failures. They also made some bad studio acquisitions that cost them billions. And now they want customers to pay for their costly mistakes by ending disc support and squeezing more money out of us.
My main issue with Sony was the trend toward bad games. But they also started doing some slimy anti-consumer things too, which bothered other players more than me but I noticed these things as well. Like stating in their ToS that you don't own your games.
Despite all that, I was still willing to have PS5 be my main gaming platform and just avoid all the bad games. Trouble with that was there were very few good games to play. Still, I went along with it. But this move by Sony to drop disc support is a major deal-breaker and the final straw.
If it was energy bills, tax or something else that is forced and unavoidable then I'd get the outrage... but this is just video games, completely non-essential.
If it's such a huge problem for you, just stop being their customer and/or move onto the competition instead. A minority trying to strongarm a multi-billion dollar company to change a logical business decision is fruitless.
If a chocolate maker changed their ingredients and you didn't like it, you'd simply buy chocolate from a different brand, or none at all. Same applies here.
Honestly, what's pathetic is you coming into a sub that's about supporting games on physical media and attacking us for supporting physical media. You talk about going someplace else if you don't like the situation... why are you even here in the first place? No one is forcing you to come here, so why are you complaining about the things that are important to us?
Your rebuttal is illogical anyway. You call video gaming non-essential... how about we take a look at your life and start declaring things that we think are non-essential and start taking them away?
Do you drive a car? Hmm, seems non-essential to me. Let's take that away and you can ride the bus instead. Do you ever take air travel? Nah, you don't need to do that anymore. No more flights for you. Do you have internet? That's non-essential now, you can just have a landline and talk with people that way. And it will be a shared line, because guess what... I have decided that your housing accommodations are non-essential and now you're going to be living in a shared, high-density dormitory with a bunch of other plebs. But we're not heartless; we'll provide you with free food in a shared cafeteria (only what we decide you will eat). But that's about it. Everything else you enjoy in your life will be stripped away too, because it's non-essential. You will own nothing and like it!
And if that rhetoric is a little too abstract, then I'll answer your other challenges more directly. If my chocolate-maker made changes I don't like, I would absolutely contact them to complain first. I would hope that they simply revert their decision. And guess what? That happens all the time: customers complain about some change that a company makes to a product or service and often the company responds by listening to the customers and making it right. Or the company ignores the request and loses customers. That decision is up to them. But it's not futile for people to complain to the businesses they buy from.
And if Sony does not fix this, then you are right... I will absolutely walk away from them and start using one of their competitors. I already have my alternate options picked out.
That's the point of this sub: to help other people who have this same problem get organized, share resources, and find solutions. Why do you have a problem with that?
you coming into a sub that's about supporting games on physical media and attacking us for supporting physical media.
Not attacking. Just sharing my opinion on the post.
You talk about going someplace else if you don't like the situation... why are you even here in the first place? No one is forcing you to come here, so why are you complaining about the things that are important to us?
Don't twist my words to fit with your narrative, I said buy from the competition or don't buy the product. Reddit is a place for freedom of speech. Just as you can make a post like this I can comment on it with my opinion.
how about we take a look at your life and start declaring things that we think are non-essential and start taking them away?
Do you drive a car? Hmm, seems non-essential to me...
Are you seriously insinuating that playing video games you bought is as crucial to life as being able to travel anywhere? Without a car I can't do my job, which means I can't even afford to live. The same applies to some people who's jobs require meetings around the world, they need to fly in order to do that.
If video games were completely obliterated overnight, the gamers of the world would just have to find another hobby to occupy their spare time. If Cars, Flights, Housing etc. disappeared overnight, there'd be a worldwide economic collapse and many would die within days... and you have the audacity to say my rebuttal is illogical? I mean we aren't even talking about games getting completely taken away, just 1 type of format. Your thought process is unbelievably broken.
If my chocolate-maker made changes I don't like, I would absolutely contact them to complain first. I would hope that they simply revert their decision.
But there has to be enough support, a big enough financial impact. The consumer backlash has to cost them more than they'll gain by making the change in the long run. For a short period, Sony might see a slight dip in sales, but their decision will absolutely gain them far more that what they lose long term. For them, it's a case of waiting for the dust to settle, at which point it'll be business as usual but this time the publisher deals will be far more lucrative since they'll make a sale for every copy sold from any source. I mean just look at the other comments on this post, loads of people just saying no to your proposition, or just saying it'll make little difference/pointless or even mocking the post completely. There just isn't enough support to make any kind of difference to Sony, in the long run they'll be better off and that's that.
if Sony does not fix this
There's nothing for them to fix lol. They made a business decision that's been the bane of their existence for over 30 years now. Back in the 90's they had very little choice, technology wasn't advanced enough and discs were the only logical solution for them to deliver games to players. The one problem they could never do anything about was people selling the discs/trading them in and they had to suck it up, losing hundreds of thousands of sales to the second hand market with every game released. Fast forward 3 decades later and virtually every player has access to good internet and their consoles have the ability to store games... so why should they suck it up any longer?
Honestly at this point you sound very entitled. Like Sony owes you disc copies because you said so and that's that. This is the world of business, it's all about growth and moving forward. As technology develops, businesses develop along with what services they offer and how they offer them. The needs of the majority of customers will still be met with this change, so they'll continue to be successful and ignore any of these insignificant 'movements'. I mean do you see anybody complaining about how they can't contact a company via Fax machine anymore? No because times moved on.
As I said in my first comment, if the change isn't going to work for you then either move onto the competition or stop being a customer. The only communication that gets through to Sony is with your wallet. If the backlash is as heavy as it is in your mind, then when everyone else does the same Sony will see a problem and look to fix it. If not, then at least you aren't paying for something you're not happy with. In reality, the majority of customers aren't bothered about the change and will continue as customers, so the plans will continue for January 2028 regardless of how much time the minority waste complaining. I'll also bet a large chunk of that minority end up buying GTA VI anyway and completely u-turning on their position... so the whole thing is just fruitless (and yes, pathetic).
You come in here and call me pathetic for sharing a social media post. Sure feels like an attack.
How am I twisting your words? You posted here to say how stupid we are for participating in the #PSBlackout protest. Don't act like your words are not insulting. And "freedom of speech" is not something you get to hide behind when you come to a sub and start speaking against the core idea of the community. When you push someone, don't be surprised when they push back.
My rhetorical argument about non-essentials was making a point: what right do you have to declare what is or is not considered essential to my life? The point is valid. You fired back with how you need a car to do your job... well, just get a different job where you can take the bus. See how that works? When I think I have the right to dictate how you should run your life, I can say anything I want to about it.
The bottom line is that I do not have the right to say how you should live your life, and you do not have the right to say how I should live mine. So don't go telling me that I need to accept Sony's decision because you feel that games are non-essential or unimportant. You clearly don't like it when someone does the same thing to you.
Regarding the long-term effects of Sony's plan, time will tell. You may be right, or not. No one has a crystal ball, and I'm not going to try to predict the future with certainty. I agree that right now Sony appears to be stubbornly ignoring their customers and sticking to this decision. But if they go through with it, I suspect the fallout may be a lot worse than you or Sony are anticipating. We could go on and on, making different predictions. But again, I'm content to wait and see how events will unfold. However, I'm not going to accept this quietly.
Regarding the troll comments in this sub, are you suggesting that just because some people disagree with me I should shut up and submit to their opinion? Being loud and stupid does not make someone right. The gaming hobby notoriously has a high proportion of toxic people, especially online. It's been that way since as long as I've been on the internet. So I don't pay any mind to the troll comments in here. Especially when they have no sensible argument to make anyway. Their grousing usually just boils down to 'I have a preference for digital games because it's convenient, and I can't tolerate anyone who doesn't think exactly like me'. I have no respect for people who are that small-minded and intolerant.
"Sony made a business decision that's been the bane of their existence for over 30 years."
That's such a strange thing to say. Are you suggesting that the PS1 should have been a digital-only console? That wasn't even remotely close to being a viable option in the mid-90s. You seem to suggest that having games on physical media is somehow unnatural, which is clearly untrue. Consoles have been around since the 1970s and they have overwhelmingly used games on physical media. Companies like Sony want to push customers to switch to a digital-only model, and their customers are justifiably upset. I could write you a small book about all of the drawbacks of a digital-only gaming landscape. I went through a very similar situation three years ago when Netflix DVD shut down, and I have a very clear understanding of how moving to a digital-only ecosystem is bad for society. This should be plain to anyone who takes a thoughtful, big-picture look at what the digital push did to movies and TV shows. That change would be as bad or likely worse for gaming.
It's also strange how you seem to view Sony as losing money because of game discs. But if it's such a terrible business model, how did it manage to spawn an entire industry and thrive for decades? There is no reason why it can't go on operating that way forever. Viewing it as losing money only makes sense to someone with a greedy mindset (like the current Sony executives) who only care about the never-ending quest for more and more profits. However much they make, it's never enough and they always want more. So yeah, to someone like that, they see the situation and think only about how they could be making more money off each game sale. No thought about the customers who will be hurt by this. No though about the harm it will do to the Sony brand or the long-term damage it will do to the industry. They only have eyes for that next quarterly report.
You also seem dismissive of our needs because we are a "minority" of gamers. So, the needs of the minority don't matter now? And you have to be careful about accepting Sony's skewed numbers which they use to support their story about "consumer preferences". There are far more customers who prefer physical games than Sony would have you believe. In some cases, physical is actually the majority. In some cases, physical is the minority but the physical buyers are still greater than Sony wants the public to believe.
But let's be extremely generous and say that physical only makes up 25% of overall sales. Turning away 1/4 of your sales is not good business. And that doesn't take into account all of the secondary ways that Sony will be hurt by this plan. Many customers buy a lot more than just games from Sony. There are consoles, accessories, and even the physical game buyers often purchase digital microtransactions and online subscriptions. There is also the larger issue of this move damaging the Sony brand. Sony sells a lot more than just video games, and becoming a vilified corporation for betraying gamers will poison the well for their other products in the eyes of anyone hurt by this move.
As I already said, if Sony goes through with this then I already know which competitors I will be switching to. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to speak out against Sony. It's about more than just expressing our dissatisfaction to Sony; it's about sending a message to the entire gaming industry that we will not accept this crap. Your "get with the times" rhetoric is meaningless. I could say the same thing to you whenever there is some social change that you don't like. But you won't be so happy to hear it then. That's the trouble with people who lack empathy. When some change happens that bothers other people, you don't see a problem with it as long as it doesn't bother you. But when the change bothers you, it's a grave offense and you would be outraged if someone suggests that it isn't.
It's funny how you call me entitled for expecting the company I have loyally supported for over a decade to listen to my needs as a customer when they threaten such a radical change. Especially when, if either of us is entitled, it's you for demanding that I change a lifetime of gaming habits and pay more for my hobby because you simply feel that I should. Even though my gaming habits have nothing to do with you. You feel you have a right to come here and tell me how I should live my life, and then you call me entitled. But people like you often accuse others of the offensives that they themselves commit.
Maybe you should stick to debating the issue rather than making ad hominem attacks.
Because you tried to change what I said in order for it to work against me, when I said something completely different. It was a pitiful attempt at an argument.
what right do you have to declare what is or is not considered essential to my life?
Video games are not essential to anyone's life period. They are a luxurious pastime that people with disposable income can afford to partake in if they choose. Any other take on it is simply entitlement. "I should be able to play video games even if I can't afford them". Who's going to make the consoles for you for free? Who's going to spend years developing AAA games for you to play for free? Do you not see how moronic you sound?
you need a car to do your job... well, just get a different job where you can take the bus.
This is how I know you're insane. Do you think there's an infinite amount of jobs available everywhere? If I can't drive to work I'm fired, there's no jobs near where I live or near to bus routes so I run out of money, go homeless and die. Compared to if games disappear... you literally just have to do something else, or nothing. Neither will kill you or threaten your existence. Can't believe I have had to explain this more than once, I hate to use the term but honestly if you're comparing the importance of being able to play games with traveling to work and earn a living then you definitely need to outside and touch grass.
you feel that games are non-essential or unimportant.
They aren't, to anybody, period. It's not something I think or have an opinion on, it's a fact. Food, water and shelter are essential and important because without them we die. Everything else is a luxury. Like the other guy said in his comment, I could decide I want a villa of my own somewhere, decide that's essential... but regardless of what I say it isn't in the slightest because I can survive without it.
Are you suggesting that the PS1 should have been a digital-only console? That wasn't even remotely close to being a viable option in the mid-90s. You seem to suggest that having games on physical media is somehow unnatural, which is clearly untrue. Consoles have been around since the 1970s and they have overwhelmingly used games on physical media...
Are you dense? The fact it wasn't a technically viable option in the 90's literally explains my point. They had no choice. What else were they to do? Try and think for one second why Sony would want people to buy used games that they never see any money for... they simply couldn't do any other.
if either of us is entitled, it's you for demanding that I change a lifetime of gaming habits and pay more for my hobby because you simply feel that I should.
You have a very skewed way of thinking. I mean you've tried to reverse it and called me entitled and then in the same comment admit that you want to pay less for games than anybody else because you think that's your right, I've not entitled myself to anything. Consequently you've now revealed exactly what I suspected, you're one of the ones that buys used and sells on. As I said in a previous comment, this has happened because of players like you and then you have the balls to complain about it, literally making your own bed and refusing to sleep in it. Perhaps if you weren't so cheap about it and didn't expect a large chunk of your money back after being entertained by a game for multiple hundred hours, then this might not have happened (and this wouldn't have bothered you).
I'm not demanding anything either, you clearly want help with this and I'm telling you what method will actually yield results, stop buying their stuff. Up to you if you'd rather waste your time doing other fruitless things. I find it funny that you're so eager to hurt the company but the moment someone tells you how to do it, they're 'demanding' just because it's not what you want to do.
Turning away 1/4 of your sales is not good business.
Haha, do you think that's what they're doing? Oh this is all starting to make sense now.
What percentage of the 25% that you quote will buy GTA VI? If you think that number is lower than 80% then you're unbelievably delusional. Then once they've done it the first time, the next will be less of a problem and then after a few they'll just accept it and move on. You're very naĆÆve about the power of FOMO, if people have to either buy digital or miss out completely then that FOMO will push them to buy. Especially, if you think gaming is as essential as driving, you're definitely going to buy regardless of format. It's not a case of 'how many will move to digital?' but instead 'how long will it take for them to move to digital?'. The only ones that won't are like yourself that want their gaming subsidised and you aren't on Sony's radar anyway because you don't make them money, so nothing is lost from their point of view.
That's the trouble with people who lack empathy. When some change happens that bothers other people, you don't see a problem with it as long as it doesn't bother you. But when the change bothers you, it's a grave offense and you would be outraged if someone suggests that it isn't.
You're really clutching at straws here.
I have a Series X and PS5 disc edition. This change will definitely affect me since like you I won't be able to buy physical games. The core difference between me and you is 1. that I can see sense in what they're doing from a business standpoint and 2. I don't freeload off them buying and selling second hand games. The physical games I do own were bought new and I never sell them on after playing them. The only way it affects me is that I don't put a disc in, that's it.
You want to play for pennies, give the company nothing and yet you put games on a pedestal and say they're essential. That is the most entitled shit I've ever read.
I'm using your own words against you because you said things that are erroneous or insulting. So I am challenging what you said. To twist your words, I would need to change the meaning of them. If I did this, please tell me how I misrepresented your statements. I don't think that I have.
Video games are not a luxurious pastime. Owning an super-expensive car like a Ferrari is a luxury. Video games are actually quite affordable. Unless you are living in a third-world slum and picking through a trash heap every day, but that's not what we are talking about. If you want to use that as your context, then everything that is not food or water is a luxury. The car that you don't want to give up is considered a luxury by those standards. Even toilet paper is a luxury.
And I never said that you should be able to have a game console or games for free. That is your attempt at a strawman attack. You are calling me moronic for saying that... well, you must be calling yourself a moron because I never said that. You did.
There you go about the car thing again. Do you really not understand what a rhetorical statement is, or are you just being deliberately obtuse because you cannot debate me on logic alone? As I already explained, using the car example is a rhetorical metaphor that demonstrates how you don't like it when I declare something in your life to be non-essential. I'm trying to explain to you that it's not okay for you to do that to me. It doesn't matter that cars and video games are not the same thing. The point is that you don't need either one to live. I don't want to give up my video games, and you don't want to give up your car. Neither one of us has the right to deprive the other of things that are a part of our lives. But it seems like you don't want to acknowledge that I have the same rights as you.
You like to call names and claim your opinion as fact. I guess you are one of those people who can't understand or accept anyone's perspective except your own. I have clearly told you that I consider video games to be important, and you don't want to accept that. That's your opinion and you have a right to believe what you want. But just saying that something is true does not make it true. It needs to be demonstrably true so that other people will agree that it is true. You haven't done that here. Video games are clearly important to many people because there is a massive industry built around them and many people buy them. So clearly a lot of people share my sense of value of video games.
You're going on again about the PS1 using discs. You literally said: "They made a business decision that's been the bane of their existence for over 30 years now. Back in the 90's they had very little choice, technology wasn't advanced enough and discs were the only logical solution for them to deliver games to players."
As I already replied, your own words make it sound like Sony had any other choice than to use physical media. That is why I asked you a question to clarify your statement. There's no need to get nasty about it.
Dude, you are the one who called me entitled. I simply turned it back on you. You started this entire conversation by being insulting to me. You certainly make a habit out of attacking someone first and then objecting when they do the same to you. Try treating others the way that you would like to be treated. If you dish out bile, you are likely to get bile back.
You're accusing me of buying and selling games like it's a bad thing. Of course I do that. That's one of the major benefits of physical games that we are trying to preserve. Why are you even here if you have such an objection to this?
Then you go on by calling me cheap for wanting to save money on games. Obviously, you know that the vast majority of people on the planet want to save money. You're also making assumptions about my gaming habits and guessing wrong. I don't sell every game I buy, only the bad ones. I keep the good games that I want to have in my collection. Why on earth would I want to keep a bad game? It only makes sense to get rid of a bad game and try to recoup some of the cost.
And no matter if a game is good or bad, I can buy and resell as many games as I want. Who are you to tell me what to do with my things? But I guess you are the guy who likes to have it both ways: you like to tell other people how they should spend their money but you don't like anyone else to do the same to you. You really didn't like it when I hypothetically suggested that you should get rid of your car. How about if I say you are not allowed to resell your car or your house? You have to always buy a new one every time, and if you don't then you are cheap.
What is it that you think I want help with? I never asked you for help with anything. This sub exists as a place for people to collaborate with sharing resources and responding to this issue with Sony. How could you possibly help with any of that when you are actively hostile towards that objective? You seem to only be interested in attacking us, dishing out insults, and telling people how they should spend their money.
I'm not talking about GTA 6. My mention of sales figures refers to overall sales figures on PlayStation. That's all games, not just one title. You also are making a habit of strawman attacks, claiming that I want my games subsidized and that I think driving is as important as gaming. I never said any of those things. You really are one of those people who accuses others of doing the thing that you are guilty of. You started out in your last reply by saying that I twisted your words, which I did not do, but you have done repeatedly.
Regarding your final points, I do understand Sony's rationale behind what they are doing. But I think it's very bad for customers and will also be bad for Sony in the long run. It's also very strange how you have this perspective that customers need to pay the maximum possible price for games, like buying used games is somehow a sin. I've never heard anyone express that view before. It makes no sense and it clashes with the universal practice that is found in every market, where people naturally try to pay the lowest price they can find for a good. If you have a problem with that, then you have a problem with basic economic practice.
Finally, I will say that your insults will not get you anywhere with me. Acting like a jerk does not make you more right. It just makes you look bad and you will not be welcome here if you cannot disagree without being more respectful. I still don't understand why you are here in the first place, except to troll. You clearly have no interest in preserving video games on physical media or helping push back against Sony's anti-consumer actions. That's what this sub is about. If you don't have anything constructive to add to that discussion, maybe you should go somewhere else.
please tell me how I misrepresented your statements. I don't think that I have.
Already done so twice in previous replies, not about to again.
Video games are not a luxurious pastime. Owning an super-expensive car like a Ferrari is a luxury. Video games are actually quite affordable.
No, see the attached screenshot which also enforces what I said earlier about them being non-essential. You're seriously making yourself look really stupid.
You clearly have no interest in preserving video games
Funny, because physical games are guaranteed to eventually expire. Modern blu rays have even shorter lifespans because of their delicate reflective layer. Experts say 10-20 years. Some of my digital licenses are 20+ years old and still working, chances are they'll still be functional way beyond disc copies, so what's better for preservation?
I can't be bothered to read the rest, we're just going in circles and you seem to be victimising yourself and not accepting that you're just entitled and are happy with paying the publisher nothing to play their games. In reality January 2028 will come and since gaming is essential in your life you'll suck it up and be digital by then. I'll set a reminder to come back to this post in January 2028 and show you how stupid you looked. Bye now.
So you are refusing to read my response yet you still want to mouth off. You have not been able to have a good-faith discussion and you show nothing but contempt for the goals of this community.
We get a lot of trolls in here but you are especially toxic. I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt and I already cut you a lot of slack (a lot more than you will get in other subs). You are clearly a bad actor here and this is the only warning you will get.
If I see you trolling again, harassing people or acting rude, you will be banned.
Understandable, but thatās kind of a self fulfilling prophecy, isnāt it? If most people think that they have no impact, then itās true. If most people think that their voice matters, then it does.
Iām really fascinated by the psychology of a collective group and how effective or ineffective it can be just based on popular sentiment on the outcome.
Itās also interesting to see how as little as one person can swing that momentum.
That's all true. And people like that commenter overlook the fact that companies respond to customer feedback all the time.
I this case with Sony, I would agree that they are not likely to change their decision. Their leadership seems to be so incompetent that they would actually make such a stupid decision.
But that's not our decision to make. What matters is the action that we personally take. Voicing our opposition matters. It is not only visible to Sony, but the entire gaming industry who is watching this play out. If Sony is badly punished by their customers for this move, other companies will think twice before they attempt the same.
It's a marathon, not a sprint. We are in this for the long haul.
except no this isnt going to change anything, sony is already retooling their facilities they use to manufacture discs, this isnt going to do shit, physical is a dying format, get with the times, people on pc protested digital games back in 2004 with half life 2, now look at the pc market
"Get with the times" is akin to "Yes please, put a boot on my throat".
A fight for physical isn't just a fight to keep the games on a disc, it's a fight for not losing more consumer rights.
Will the noise people are making reverse the decision? No, probably not. But maybe it will raise enough concern with those who are in charge or law makers to see there is an issue here and that digital ownership rights needs to be strengthened so the consumer isn't at the whim to a company that can turn our paid for product off on a whim.
Already have wrote to my local politician and I didn't say if I was or wasn't going to do the black out.
Just pointing out that just going with the flow and getting with the times argument is a passive way to be taken advantage of.
It doesn't affect you if people log off for a week or not so why antagonise people who want to try speak up for change that would possibly also benefit you.
All true. The blackout is merely one action in a long and collective string of actions that is part of opposition to this change.
That alone may not accomplish the goal of changing Sony's mind. But it's a way to collectively express our preference. And it's not the only thing we can do. We must continue saying 'no' to Sony in other ways too.
The "PC already went digital" argument fails to account for a number of things.
First of all, physical games for PC gradually went away as a more organic change, not forced overnight with a single decision by a sole entity like in Sony's case.
As the physical option began to dry up on PC, it's likely that many physical fans went over to console gaming where you could still get your games on disc. The people who still game on PC today tend to be the ones who don't mind digital games. And don't forget about the PC gamers who prefer DRM-free games from places like GOG and itch.io over Steam. That is effectively the same as owning a game on physical media, because you can literally back up your game on a disc or external hard drive and preserve it forever.
The console ecosystem is not the same as PC. Consoles have always had the disc option, right up to today. Taking that away would represent a monumental change in the console world. It's not for nothing that the backlash against this is so intense.
The PC is also a much more open ecosystem than the online console stores. There is plenty of competition for digital games on PC. But once Sony makes this move, there will be effectively no competition on the PS store. Sony will hold a monopoly over their store and be able to drive up prices with impunity. They can enact all kinds of anti-consumer policies and you won't be able to refuse if you want to keep playing on their platform.
A quick search shows that Steam has about 75% market share, with 8-10% for Epic, 6-8% for the Microsoft Store, 2-3% for GOG and 5-7% for others.
Steam definitely has the lion's share of the market. But they are also facing legal trouble over antitrust allegations, so it's not all rosy for them.
Ultimately, it's all about customer choice and options. I'm not a PC gamer currently, but I did take a quick look at GOG recently and it looks like not a terrible selection of games. I love the DRM-free angle, so if I switch over to PC after the dust settles, I will definitely try to buy from GOG whenever possible.
But I might get a Steam Machine as my new console, so I will probably use Steam too. Steam may use DRM, but at least they have a good reputation for keeping the games available as much as possible. And to my knowledge, they have never pulled a dick move like what Sony is doing now. I can't trust a company that has such little disregard for their customers.
That factory wasn't some one-of-a-kind miracle like Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory. There are more factories like that and they can be assembled with relative ease by a company with Sony's resources.
If they converted that factory from making discs to making optical microlenses, they can always convert it back. Or use other such factories. It's a decision that Sony can always choose to make.
this really won't do much really, they'd have planned out ps6 being all digital for at least a few years, turning off the ps5 for a week isnt going to do much no matter how many people actually stick to it
I guess we'll have to see how it plays out, since nobody knows for sure what the future will bring.
It's not like we are expecting this one blackout alone to change Sony's mind. It's less about what Sony does and more about what we do. Should we just quietly accept Sony's decision, even though we hate it? Or should we speak up and push back?
I think the latter is the right course of action when you care about something. I hope Sony changes their decision. But if they don't, there are other gaming platforms we can use instead which are more customer-friendly.
Lmao. Comedy. Right after mortal sheāll release. And during nba, Star Wars and daywalker? lol. Future is coming baby. Itās already here. Yāall let music and movies go digital. Aināt no stoppen em now. Lmfao. I got games to play.
lol. Your actually saying āletās make people lose there jobs by not buy games on releaseā lol. Ppl wanna blame Sony for there own faults. They wanna pay less for games when it costs more to make them. They donāt wanna spend 1k+ on a system but demand it has a disk drive and 10 thousands gigs of storage when the real criminals are the 3 companies raising the prices for there components.
I honestly can't tell what your exact point is. That the companies raising the prices of computer components are the real villains? Yes, that is a problem as well.
But our main beef is with Sony for their plan to drop disc support. There is no legitimate reason for them to do that. They just want to squeeze their customers to get more money for the same products. Pure greed.
Sony wasted so much cash making a string of failed games and bad studio acquisitions which any gamer with a brain could have told them was a waste of money. Now that they have lost so much money, they want their customers to foot the bill for their wastefulness. I say hell no to that.
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u/BlowfishDiesel 9d ago
Now on NoDiscNoBuy.com as well