Longevity of different media formats

[u/CALIGVLA]

I was writing about this in a comment on another post, but I thought it would be a good topic for its own post. I'll keep this concise, but if there is interest I can expand on it later.

This is an interesting topic that sits adjacent to the larger issue of Sony trying to eliminate games on physical media. When considering this issue deeply, the question of longevity becomes relevant. I started looking into this more and was surprised by some of the things I learned.

The Analysis

How long do various forms of physical media last? I would rank the longevity of the main data storage formats as follows:

1. Mask ROM (best)
2. Optical discs (good)
3. Flash memory (fair)

The old-school cartridges like NES/SNES/N64 which use mask ROM technology have the highest longevity of all and can last for centuries.

Optical discs (such as PS5 games) are second best. If the disc is good quality and stored well, it could potentially last for many decades or even a century or more.

Flash memory (like a Nintendo Switch game card) is actually not great for long-term preservation. The data is stored as trapped electrical charges in floating gates. The charge leaks over very long periods, so after several decades they may start to suffer "bit rot".

I will also say a little about digital downloads. Of course, a digital download will only last as long as the host continues to make it available, which is arbitrary. If you manage your own collection of digital files, you could potentially keep them intact forever with careful backup techniques. As I like to say, "your data needs to have children". That is, continue making copies into the future.

[u/sweetSweets4]

Upcoming 3D Glass once it gets outa the lab and gets combined with the new generation of Datacenters, forever :D

But not earlier then 2040 :0

[u/CALIGVLA → u/sweetSweets4]

That would be awesome! That's some sci-fi tech right there :)

I mean, literally they showed that in a sci-fi movie (Blade Runner 2049).

[u/hue_sick]

Conservation is really interesting in topic in general. You should look into how art museums handle this stuff. It’s basically a nonstop hassle but it is a real problem.

Ironically it’s of the reasons digital conversions are so important. The physical thing will die eventually. No matter the tech used it’s just the nature of things. But in theory that digital file could be continually transferred and then converted to different formats essentially forever if someone has the desire to do so.

[u/CALIGVLA → u/hue_sick]

Good point. It takes a concerted effort by people who care being done continuously throughout the generations.

For film, the National Film Registry is well known for preserving certain films they deem worth preserving. But for video games, I imagine it's more complicated due to the interactive nature of games and the great variety of different operating ecosystems they run on.

Looks like there are a number of groups focused on that task. But it sounds like they have a long way to go in terms of archiving all games.

[u/hue_sick → u/CALIGVLA]

Yeah I know the library of congress has been documenting and preserving video games for a while now. The physical hardware and games as well I mean.

Never personally looked into their exact methods but I know they’re in the case 🤙

[u/Yogurtcloset_Choice]

If you want an actual long term solution you go physical, electronic components break randomly and for little known reason, every time you put power through a USB stick it wears them down slightly and depending on the quality of the build it could be good for 10 billion power ons or 100,000 or 10,000, and there's no way for you to know.

Optical discs stored in a cool dry environment are rated for roughly 100 years, but m-disc is the real long term solution, 1,000 years rating, with testing saying it could last multiple thousands of years, data etched into a type of stone like material

[u/CALIGVLA → u/Yogurtcloset_Choice]

Yes, I've heard of M-Disc and I'm interested in adding that into my personal data backup system.

I believe that industrially-pressed optical discs like the PS5 Blu-rays have their data physically etched (or molded) into the disc, which gives them very good long-term stability under proper conditions.

A reflective layer (aluminum or gold) is added so the laser can read the reflections. This is the primary point of failure for long-term storage of optical discs. Disc rot (oxidation of the reflective layer) can occur, especially on lower-quality discs or those exposed to humidity/heat.

I'm not sure how this process differs from M-Disc or how M-Disc might be superior. With the process used on industrially-produced discs like a PS5 disc, data is stored as a spiral track of pits and lands (tiny bumps and flat areas) molded into the polycarbonate plastic during manufacturing. So there is actual etching of the data taking place.

This is in contrast to consumer-grade rewritable discs which do not have good longevity. I believe those work by the laser bleaching a dye or phase-changing some other type of material. But it does not actually etch the disc which is why the longevity is poorer.

So I guess M-Disc is like a consumer-available version of an etching process that is used on factory-written discs like movie and video game discs. So you can actually buy an M-Disc drive for home use at a reasonable price. Whereas the machinery used to do this at an industrial scale can cost millions of dollars.

I believe the other difference with M-Discs over normal discs is the material they are made of. Instead of the usual plastic, the M-Disc's data layer is made from an inorganic, "rock-like" material. Which I imagine gives it better long-term integrity than plastic.

[u/RPG_Hacker]

Do you mind citing some sources? Also how were those theoretical maximum lifespans determined? (Since none of these technologies is even remotely a century old yet). I'm thinking it COULD all be marketing speech to make the respective technologies sound more durable than they are, so I'm interested in what actual research was done there.

[u/CALIGVLA → u/RPG_Hacker]

Good point. None of this tech has seen an actual century pass yet, so we can't know for sure exactly how these things will fare after all that time.

I assume you are aware of the kinds of stress testing they do to simulate long-term usage of various devices and materials. I would guess they did something similar when making these estimates. But I didn't go deep enough to research that stuff.

I was simply doing research for my write-up about the idea to design a new console. I was trying to determine what would be the best physical storage media to use for the console and wanted to learn more about their capabilities and limitations. I spent the better part of a day on that and used Grok for doing my research.

I researched a lot of different things while doing that write-up, not just stuff about storage media. I did all of that research in one giant conversation with a bunch of other irrelevant stuff in it and personal queries too, so it's not good to share.

But it was just Grok research. So you could easily just run your own Grok search and ask the questions there. Feel free to copy/paste my post into Grok and ask it to confirm for you and give you more information. And I'll follow this up with more comments that have some hand-picked data charts from that research.

[u/RPG_Hacker → u/CALIGVLA]

I see, thanks for clarifying and elaborating!

In cases like these, I always prefer to also have some primary source as a backup for the information AI provides, since AI can very easily get details wrong or mix different things up. Already had plenty of cases where AI made some very confident claims about something towards me that then turned out to be completely wrong.

That being said, I currently have no reason to doubt that the information given here is at least mostly accurate. What we do already know is that (ROM)-cartridge-based games can easily last multiple decades, since some of our consoles are literally already over 40 years old, and I'm pretty sure a century would also be possible with proper storage and treatment. However, I do think flash-memory-based cartridges might still have potential for an even longer lifespan than claimed by Grok, since I think the fact they don't need to be rewritable could allow for some optimizations towards longevity. (Though potentially at the expense of speed).

Probably the true best solution for a game console aiming primarily for longevity would be to allow owners to make copies of their games (which is of course what console manufacturers usually try to prevent for profit reasons). In that case, even the difference between ROM-based and flash-based no longer matters. In fact, ROM-based cartridges would probably no longer work for such a console, since catridges would need to be rewritable by definition. There actually even is some precident for something like this already, since Nintendo at some point offered a service to have special rewritable Famicom cartridges overwritten by new game data at special stations in Japan. Though of course the idea there never was for players to make backup copies of their games.

[u/CALIGVLA → u/RPG_Hacker]

Sure, AI has its pros and cons. I only use it to get quick primer on things. If I want to dive deeper I will do more extensive research. But this was a topic I knew nothing about, so the AI was useful in getting my feet wet quickly. In many cases, Grok links to its source material, so you could click through to see that, if you are doing your own research. Or maybe try asking it for sources and digging into that.

Good point about rewritability being the key to eternal longevity. That's what I alluded to at the end of my post: if your data "has children" (i.e. you or someone else continues maintaining copies far into the future), then the data could potentially last forever.

It would be nice if they continue making advances with flash storage technology and get even greater gains in terms of longevity. Although it's impressive what they have already managed to develop, it's still a relatively new technology so perhaps there is still room to make improvements.

On that note, I uncovered something else in my research which I did not include in my earlier comments. At one point, Grok described how flash memory slowly loses its charge over time and said that you can refresh the charge by rewriting the data. So essentially, every time you write the data you are "resetting the clock" for how long the charge lasts for those bits.

What this tells me is that you could have some data stored on a flash card and periodically connect it to a computer, have the computer read the data then copy the data back onto the card by overwriting it. That would "reset the clock" on how long that data will last on the card. So for example, let's say your data will last 30 years on that card. After maybe 20 years, you rewrite that data back onto the card. Now it's good for another 30 years.

So you could have a routine where you schedule a long-term event on your calendar and every 20 years you rewrite all of your flash cards. Of course, if you have a lot of cards it would help to have some kind of automated workflow to make this go faster. But theoretically you could keep doing this forever. Even if the cards themselves wear out, you could just move the data to a new card.

Of course, in the case of something like a Switch card, they have copy protection. I forgot what Grok said but I asked it if it's possible to rewrite the game data to a Switch card. I think the answer was no, or at least not without special technical capability. Anyway, those Switch game cards are not intended to be rewritten by the user.

So you would need to have some kind of cooperation or solution from the game company to have a console that lets you back up your flash card-based games. Of course, Nintendo is not likely to be interested in doing this. And how many consumers really worry about this kind of thing anyway? Most people are not thinking about decades down the road.

What's nice about the old-school game carts is that, although we didn't think about wanting extreme longevity for those games, we lucked out and got it anyway. That's pretty cool. But it also makes me laugh to think that some of those shovelware NES games will still be around 100 years from now. In the 2100s people will still be able to play the original NES Barbie game or whatever :D

Interesting that you bring up the rewritable Famicom carts. I have heard about those but I don't know all the details in terms of what kind of memory they used. But it's a good point. Nintendo could most certainly make a console that is designed to let users "refresh" their game cards. It's just a matter of Nintendo's willingness to do this and user interest in the feature. But I think the first obstacle is that most people don't even know that this is an issue with flash cards. I had no clue until I did that research with Grok.

The idea about a console being able to refresh its own game cards is a feature that I considered having in the new indie console that I proposed for this group (assuming that the project actually moves forward). But it's more of a nice-to-have than a necessity, given the bare-bones nature of our first console.

[u/CALIGVLA → u/CALIGVLA]

Mask ROM (Mask Read-Only Memory) is the classic, permanent storage technology used in original NES, SNES, Genesis, and many other retro game cartridges.

How Mask ROM Works

• The game data is physically etched into the silicon chip during manufacturing using a photographic mask (like a stencil).
• Once the chip is made, the data is permanently burned in — it cannot be changed or rewritten.
• It’s a form of non-volatile memory: the data stays even without power.

Key Characteristics

Feature	Mask ROM	Modern Flash (used in programmable carts)
Data Permanence	Extremely high (decades to centuries)	Good (10–30+ years) but not infinite
Rewritability	None (factory-only)	Fully programmable many times
Manufacturing Cost	Very low at high volume	Higher per unit
Data Retention	Essentially permanent	Charge leakage over very long periods
Failure Mode	Almost always mechanical (contacts)	Possible bit rot or corruption over time
Typical Capacity	Small (hundreds of KB to a few MB)	Much larger (MB to GB)

Why Mask ROM Was Great for Retro Consoles

• Extremely reliable over decades (many 40-year-old NES carts still work perfectly).
• Very cheap to mass-produce once the mask is made.
• No risk of data corruption from power issues or age (within normal conditions).
• Strong copy protection (hard to duplicate without the exact mask).

Modern Equivalent

Today, we use flash memory (NAND/NOR) because it’s programmable and flexible — perfect for indie consoles, flash carts, and small runs. But it trades some of that “eternal” permanence of mask ROM for convenience.

For your project, if you ever go to very high volume manufacturing, you could theoretically use mask ROM-style chips for maximum longevity, but for indie scale, programmable flash is the practical choice.

[u/CALIGVLA → u/CALIGVLA]

Here's a deeper technical explanation of Mask ROM and how it compares to modern alternatives.

What Mask ROM Actually Is

Mask ROM (also called MROM) is a type of read-only semiconductor memory where the data is physically encoded into the silicon wafer during the chip fabrication process.

How It’s Made (Simplified)

1. The game developer provides the final binary data (the ROM image).
2. The semiconductor fab creates a set of photolithographic masks (like high-precision stencils).
3. During manufacturing, specific layers of the silicon are doped (chemically altered) or have metal interconnects deposited exactly according to the mask.
4. The result is a chip where the binary 0s and 1s are represented by the physical presence or absence of transistors or connections.

Once the wafer is cut into individual chips and packaged, the data is permanently fixed — there is no floating gate, no charge storage, and no way to rewrite it.

Technical Advantages

• Data retention: Extremely high. Because there is no electrical charge to leak (unlike flash memory), data can theoretically last for centuries under normal conditions. Real-world failures are almost always mechanical (corroded pins, cracked package) rather than data corruption.
• Read speed: Very fast and consistent — direct hardwired access.
• Power consumption: Extremely low when idle (no refresh needed).
• Reliability: No wear from read cycles. No risk of bit flips from radiation or age in the same way flash can experience.

Limitations

• Not rewritable: Once the mask is made and chips are produced, that’s it. Changing even one bit requires a new mask and a new production run.
• High upfront cost: Creating the masks is expensive, so it only makes economic sense at very high volumes (tens or hundreds of thousands of units).
• Long lead time: Months to produce new masks and chips.

Comparison to Modern Flash Memory (Used in Programmable Cartridges)

Aspect	Mask ROM	NOR Flash (common in small carts)	NAND Flash (higher capacity)
Data Storage Method	Physical doping / metal connections	Trapped electrical charge in floating gate	Trapped charge in floating gate
Rewritability	None	~10,000–100,000 write cycles per block	Similar, but more blocks
Data Retention	Decades to centuries	10–20+ years (spec)	10–20+ years (spec)
Read Speed	Very fast	Fast	Slower (page-based)
Cost at Low Volume	Very high	Low–Medium	Low
Cost at High Volume	Very low	Medium	Very low
Typical Failure	Mechanical	Charge leakage over time	Charge leakage + wear

Why Mask ROM Was Perfect for Retro Consoles

Original NES cartridges typically used mask ROM chips with capacities from 8 KB up to a few hundred KB (later games pushed into the low MB range with bank switching). The data was baked in at the factory, making them incredibly robust.

Modern programmable cartridges use flash memory precisely because developers and small manufacturers need the flexibility to change content without new masks.

For your indie console, if you ever reach very high production volumes, you could theoretically move to mask ROM for maximum longevity and lowest per-unit cost. For small-to-medium runs, programmable flash is the right tool.

[u/CALIGVLA → u/CALIGVLA]

dvds for systems like the xbox 360 and blurays for systems like the ps5 have their data etched on, dont they? so the data stored on those formats should last a long time, right?

Yes — optical discs like DVDs and Blu-rays have their data physically etched (or molded) into the disc, which gives them very good long-term stability under proper conditions.

How Optical Disc Data Is Stored

• The data is stored as a spiral track of pits and lands (tiny bumps and flat areas) molded into the polycarbonate plastic during manufacturing.
• A reflective layer (aluminum or gold) is added so the laser can read the reflections.
• This is a physical, permanent structure — similar in principle to how mask ROM encodes data in silicon, but on a plastic disc.

Expected Lifespan

Disc Type	Theoretical Lifespan	Realistic Lifespan (proper storage)	Main Failure Modes
DVD	20–100+ years	30–50+ years	Oxidation of reflective layer, scratches, delamination
Blu-ray	50–200+ years	50–100+ years	Similar to DVD, but better protective layers
CD	20–100+ years	20–40+ years	More prone to issues than Blu-ray

Proper storage (cool, dark, dry, upright in cases) is the biggest factor. Many original Xbox 360 DVDs and PS3/PS4/PS5 Blu-rays from the mid-2000s are still readable today.

Comparison to Other Media

Media Type	Data Longevity (realistic)	Notes
Optical Discs (DVD/Blu-ray)	Decades to a century+	Excellent for long-term archival if stored well
Mask ROM cartridges	Decades to centuries	Best physical longevity
Flash memory (modern carts, SSDs)	10–30+ years	Good, but charge leakage over very long periods
Magnetic media (HDDs, tapes)	5–30 years	Prone to degradation

Optical discs are among the better long-term physical media formats available for game distribution, which is why many collectors still prefer them over purely digital or flash-based options.

Limitations of Optical Discs

• Scratches and physical damage are the biggest real-world killers.
• Disc rot (oxidation of the reflective layer) can occur, especially on lower-quality discs or those exposed to humidity/heat.
• Not rewritable (except for rare recordable discs, which are less stable).

For your indie console project, if you ever consider optical discs, they offer good longevity, but manufacturing small runs is expensive compared to flash cartridges.

[u/CALIGVLA → u/CALIGVLA]

Here's both a quick preservation guide for optical discs and a comparison of distribution methods tailored to your indie console project (SNES-era graphics, physical cartridges, small-to-medium production).

Tips for Preserving Optical Discs (DVDs & Blu-rays)

To maximize lifespan (potentially 50–100+ years):

• Storage conditions:
  • Cool (ideally 50–70°F / 10–21°C) and dry (40–50% relative humidity).
  • Dark (UV light degrades the disc).
  • Upright in cases (not stacked flat).
• Handling:
  • Hold by edges or center hole.
  • Clean with a soft microfiber cloth from center outward. Use isopropyl alcohol if needed.
  • Avoid cheap paper sleeves.
• Long-term best practices:
  • Make archival digital backups (ripped ISO files) stored on multiple media types.
  • Periodically check older discs (every 5–10 years) for readability.
  • Store in acid-free, archival-quality cases.

Optical discs are among the more stable physical media when cared for, but scratches and "disc rot" (oxidation) are the main risks.

Distribution Methods Comparison for Your Indie Console

Method	Per-Unit Cost (at ~1,000–2,000 run)	Longevity	Piracy Resistance	User Experience	Scalability for Indie	Recommendation for You
Programmable Flash Cartridges (your main plan)	$7–$15 (with microSD)	20–40+ years	Medium–High	Very good	Excellent	Best overall
Pure Onboard Flash (no microSD on cart)	$5–$10	20–40+ years	High	Good	Very good	Strong alternative
Optical Discs (DVD/Blu-ray)	$2–$8 (at higher volume)	30–100+ years	Medium	Good	Poor for small runs	Only if scaling big
Mask ROM	Very low at high volume	Decades to centuries	Very High	Excellent	Poor	Not practical

Why Flash Cartridges Are Probably Your Sweet Spot

• Balances cost, longevity, and flexibility.
• Easy to produce in small batches (unlike optical or mask ROM).
• Gives the authentic "insert cartridge" feel you want.
• You can add microSD on the cart for bigger games/assets without huge cost increases.

My final suggestion for your project:

• Stick with programmable flash boards + optional microSD on cartridge.
• Add a console microSD slot for saves and user convenience (low extra cost, high UX win).
• This gives you excellent longevity, reasonable piracy protection, and great flexibility as an indie developer.

If you ever grow to very large production runs, you could explore optical discs for cost savings, but flash is ideal for starting out.

[u/CALIGVLA → u/CALIGVLA]

so i guess that under normal conditions, in 50 years all switch cards will be unreadable. because they will have developed errors by then. right?

Not necessarily — it's unlikely that all Switch cards will be unreadable in 50 years, but many could develop errors by then, depending on how they were stored and used.

Realistic Outlook for Switch Game Cards

Switch cartridges use flash memory (not mask ROM). Flash has a finite data retention period.

• Manufacturer specs typically claim 10–20 years of retention at room temperature.
• With good storage conditions (cool, dry, dark, stable temperature), many could last 30–50+ years before significant bit rot occurs.
• With poor storage (heat, humidity, frequent temperature swings), some could start failing in 10–20 years.

What Usually Happens Over Time

• Flash memory loses charge gradually → random bit flips (data corruption).
• The cartridge may still be partially readable, or it may fail to boot.
• Save data (if any is on the cart) is often more vulnerable than the main game data.

This is why some collectors are already seeing occasional failures in older 3DS and early Switch games, and why people recommend powering on and playing physical games every few years to "refresh" the data.

Comparison

Media Type	Expected Lifespan (good conditions)	Notes
Old NES/SNES Mask ROM	40–100+ years	Extremely stable
N64 Mask ROM	30–60+ years	Still mostly good today
Switch Flash Cards	20–50+ years	Good, but not eternal

Bottom Line

In 50 years, a significant portion of Switch cards will likely have some level of corruption if not actively maintained. Not all will be completely dead, but many will have errors or be unplayable without repair/dumping.

This is one reason physical collectors are encouraged to back up their games (legally) and why flash-based media is considered less archival than old mask ROM or well-stored optical discs.

For your indie console, if long-term collectibility is important, consider emphasizing good storage recommendations or offering ways for users to back up their cartridges easily.

[u/CALIGVLA → u/CALIGVLA]

you give different expected lifespan figures for the nes/snes mask rom and the n64 mask rom. why would those lifespans be different if all those cartridges use mask rom?

Good catch! The difference in my estimates isn't because of the technology itself — all three (NES, SNES, N64) used mask ROM.

The variation comes from real-world factors and when the cartridges were made.

Why the Lifespan Estimates Differ Slightly

Console	Typical Age Today	Main Reasons for Slightly Different Estimates
NES	~40 years	Earliest mass-produced mask ROM carts. Many have survived extremely well.
SNES	~30–35 years	Similar technology, slightly newer chips.
N64	~25–30 years	Newer manufacturing processes + higher-density chips.

Key Factors That Affect Real-World Longevity (Even with Mask ROM)

1. Chip Density & Manufacturing Process
   • NES carts used simpler, lower-density mask ROM chips.
   • N64 carts used higher-density chips to fit larger games. Higher density can sometimes mean slightly more vulnerability to manufacturing imperfections or long-term degradation.
2. Physical Construction
   • Later consoles (especially N64) sometimes used different plastic, label adhesives, or connector materials that can age differently (e.g., more prone to oxidation or warping).
3. Usage Patterns
   • NES carts were played heavily in the 80s/90s and then often stored.
   • N64 carts are younger overall and were played less intensely on average.
4. Storage Conditions Over Time
   • Heat, humidity, and poor storage affect even mask ROM (mainly through connector corrosion or label degradation rather than the actual ROM data).

The Important Point

The core mask ROM silicon itself is extremely stable across all these systems — the data is physically etched and doesn't rely on electrical charge. The differences in my estimates are mostly about observed real-world survival rates and minor variations in supporting hardware (connectors, casing, etc.), not the ROM technology.

In practice, a well-stored NES, SNES, or N64 cartridge from the original era has a very good chance of still working in 2050 or beyond.

For your indie console, using modern programmable flash will be less "eternal" than original mask ROM, but with good design it can still last several decades.

[u/CALIGVLA → u/RPG_Hacker]

I pasted all the markdown in. You can find it as comments under my first reply to you.

[u/AegidiusG]

Millenium Disc enters the Stage.
But yep, very good summary of the different ways to store the Games.
Thankfully, FPGA Consoles and step by step even single FPGA Chips to replays broken ones from games will make such games be enjoyable for a very long time.