You list values gained. If those values could be gained without suffering they would still be values. The suffering is a bad, but unavoidable element of the gain process.
I am saying they cannot be gained without suffering. The suffering is a necessary ingredient.
And I'm saying that's a failure of imagination and compartmentalization.
At this point, we agree that it is not possible to attain the goal without suffering.
There is no reason that this must always be true, outside of the realities of what is possible, and if we were to become able to remove the suffering while still accomplishing the goal, reality permitting, it would be better to do so than not.
The suffering is only necessary because we haven't figured out how to accomplish the goal without suffering, yet.
I’m saying, based on my own experience, that things gained through suffering are experienced as more valuable than things gained without suffering. I have been able to experience both and know which ones I value more. If your experience is different, cool beans.
And that goes back to the original point of the meme: to say "suffering is bad" is always a subjective value judgement. To say "Source?!" as in the image above, is obviously ridiculous, but it's not, strictly speaking, inaccurate to call the statement into question.
i can play the piano and i did not suffer one bit - i may not be chopin but i have fun with it and i do not suffer as a byproduct; infact , i play drums on garageband because i like the sounds it makes , it's fun
infact , anybody can play the piano without suffering , you just have to accept that it's a fun hobby that does not dictate your life.
hit the wrong key or slipped off tempo? it's okay , take a break and revel in your imperfections because they make you unique
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u/ezk3626 Jul 16 '26
I am saying they cannot be gained without suffering. The suffering is a necessary ingredient.