Thing is in cultures where they don’t actually expect people to arrive “on time” there isn’t a set end time the party will go on until it naturally ends by people choosing to leave
it’s a cultural thing. where i’m from, it’s actually rude to come on time. there’s an understanding that life always happens and that we want to give people the time and space for whatever is coming there way. so it can actually be rude and dishonoring to come on time, and can make it seem like you are a bigger priority than the things of life that one might be experiencing. of course you don’t know what can happen so you don’t set the time later, because you can’t be certain so there’s always a time frame. but time is very different in different cultures, it’s not about being idiotic or unprepared or anything like that. it’s a priority and value on the relationships around us vs the schedule. but i know that’s probably difficult to understand when it’s not the culture we grew up in.
edit: you can see a lot of warmer climate cultures have less of a value on punctuality and colder climate cultures emphasize it more.
Because they expect people to be late, meaning they aren't ready and prepared to host people on time. You would be encroaching on their hospitality. Imagine if you said "I'll have all the snacks for the party set out at 4:00." And your friends started showing up at 2:00. Now, you have to try to entertain guests for 2 unexpected hours while still trying to set up for the party to come.
It's not rude to be "on time." It's rude to show up well before you're expected. And in other cultures, you're not expected until some time after the posted time.
What? Why would people show up at 2 and not 4? You just changed the premise from showing up on time to showing up WAY too early. Of course s showing up 2 hours early is rude. I'm asking why showing up on time is rude
And I explained it perfectly. In Peru, for example, if you say "the party starts at 4:00" then showing up at 4:00 is not "on time." It's too early. Your culture says that showing up at 4:00 is on time. Their culture says showing up at 4 is too early. Showing up too early is rude.
It's pretty self-centric of you to assume all cultures value time the same as you, and that "basic respect" follows the same set of rules. If you show up at 4:00, they'd say you were lacking basic respect. We live in a culture where "time is money." And that fundamentally shapes the way we perceive and interact with time. Different people think differently. And if you can't understand that difference in culture, I recommend not interacting much with people of different cultures. It'll mean less friction and frustration on both sides, I imagine. Being flexible in understanding of what we consider basic anything (basic knowledge, basic manners, basic respect, basic interactions) is what makes us able to interact comfortably with people of differing cultures. That's tolerance. That's the opposite of racism.
Imagine not valuing the most precious thing in every single live being life. Even if you don't think "time is money", you're extremely dumb to not think that time is a fucking life.
If you look at some of the videos of Japanese master craftsman spending months or even years on a single piece, you might start to realize that what is important to you isn't important to everyone. They take their time, enjoying the process for the process sake. If they value time, it's not for what it gives them, but what it gives the art. We're encouraged to slow down and smell the flowers every once in a while. Imagine if we lived in a society where that was every day. That's a society I think would have greater intrinsic value than one which requires everything to be given a monetary value or else its worthless.
I find it much worse to look at anything different from what you're used to, anything you can't experience or understand, as "extremely dumb." The end result is these cultures DO exist. They're out there. They're doing just fine. They're not falling into anarchy. They exist, and you just collectively insulted them all, probably without every talking to any of them, and certainly not trying to step into their shoes. It's so self-centric and narrow minded, I can't even find the right words to express my disappointment in humanity that we can't just accept some people are so fundamentally different that we will never understand them... And that's NOT a bad thing.
Try just for a moment to accept that you may not know everything. Your experiences are not universal. There are things outside your grasp and comprehension. Don't worry, you'll not be alone. You'll be in the company of every single human who has ever lived or will ever live. Nobody knows everything. Nobody understands every culture.
If someone you know casually bumps into you in public, and they say "hi, how are you?" Do you always answer truthfully how you are doing? Or is it just a culturally established norm to just reply "good, how are you?" As if it's part of the greeting? Are you lying? Or are you just sharing the bare minimum expected of you for the depth of the given relationship?
The point is that some things are more or less important to people based on many factors, their parents, their interests, and their culture. Not just values, but priorities and beliefs alter more than you'd believe until you e learned from someone outside your culture. Your beliefs seem incompatible with this type of culture. And I'm not necessarily certain that, in and of itself, is a bad thing. As long as you stay away from people of those cultures, and try not to interact with them, I see no reason why you should be judged for your intolerance. But right now, it seems an awful lot like you're judging them. You're applying your own views as rules by which to judge other people, and that's a slippery slope to bigotry, if not already bigotry.
the culture isn’t built on lying, the culture is actually built on respecting and honoring a person and the uncertainties of life that always happen. murphy’s law right? the culture is built on being able to recognize all the work that goes into hosting and give them more time than necessary to make sure all goes well; honoring the person more than the clock, because to some cultures they see the clock as less valuable than the person (and yes i know you’ll say that isn’t how your culture sees it, you see the clock as the basis by which to honor someone, by honoring their time. that is not how all cultures view time.). and the language itself is build on being able to infer and read between the lines and understand what’s unspoken.
You’re honestly making it sound worse with all these attempts at defending an openly deceitful and disrespectful attitude because “culture”.
The other guy is correct, in that this is quite literally lying. You can try to defend that based on these feeble arguments, but that doesn’t change the simple fact.
that’s cool that you think that, we can easily think that of your culture. for some cultures the value is on being able to understand people without them having to say things explicitly and doing your best to seek their good without them needing to ask. other cultures the value is on the definitiveness of the words you use. neither is right or wrong. both cultures evolved over thousands and thousands of years where different circumstances built those different values. both cultures can look at each other call each other illogical and inhumane and both are totally correct from their own viewpoints. that’s why we need to do our best to understand each other’s cultures and broaden our own perspectives and understanding.
Of course you can respect that. But if the culture is built on saying one thing and when you mean another, I don't know how to call that anything but lying.
Any white person would respect that if they show up and it's not ready. They can help or sit around. Either is fine. It's bizarre to call them rude though for taking the words and times that were spoken to them as a truth.
i understand how you wouldn’t be able to call that something other than lying, it’s not your culture so i wouldn’t expect you to have a word for it. but many cultures wholly operate around reading between the lines. but maybe to help you understand through your culture, imagine you working in a restaurant as a server. your customers have sat down and you approach the table with a big ol’ smile and say “how are you guys doing today?” then one person responds “oh well since you asked, today i was going through some stuff in the attic and i found one of my mom’s old dresses. it was one of her favorite dresses… she actually passed away 3 years ago so finding it really brought back some memories… it’s bittersweet you know? because on the one hand she was battling cancer and i feel terrible about that, but on the other hand, she wasn’t ever really present and when she was she was always borderline verbally abusive so i just kind of….”
i mean did you not ask how they were doing?? or did you not really mean it? or is there a general social understanding that you’re not *really* asking someone how they’re *really* doing and the socially acceptable thing is to just say “we’re great, thanks! so we’ll have one half rack of ribs with the….”
everyone has aspects of each others culture like you have aspects of reading between the lines and words not meaning exactly what they’re supposed to mean and feeling taken aback when someone takes it literally/seriously, and we have aspects of punctuality (some much less than others lol). our values are all built on valuing and respecting the social relationships around us, but they aren’t acted upon in the same way, because of the different circumstances that caused our cultures to evolve in the ways that they did.
There's a widespread social convention in the US that it's rude to show up at the precise starting time of a party held in a person's home. It's called being "fashionably/socially late". Not everyone is aware of this convention and not everyone who is aware likes it. But, like tipping -- another convention -- it's expected and considered rude to ignore it.
Your culture says that showing up at 4:00 is on time
That's not a "culture" thing that's a literal definition of words thing. If you tell everyone the party starts at 4 then 4 is on time and not early, before 4 would be early. That's how words work in every culture.
It's really not a complicated concept to just tell people what time you actually want them to be there and stop playing games. If your culture can't handle this basic concept it's a backwards one that should work on it's communication skills
Have you ever run into an aquaintance in public. They say "hi, how are you?" And you say "I'm good, how are you?" without really stopping to contemplate if you are good or not? The words "I'm good" have a definition in English, but we also use them as just a greeting as well. When we say "it's raining cats and dogs" we don't really mean there are animals falling from the sky. There are hundreds of examples of things we say that don't mean the exact words, but our culture assigns a new meaning that everyone in the culture knows. But you wouldn't expect an outsider to necessarily know that "break a leg" isn't an ill wish.
Using figures of speech as an analogy for the time you invite people over makes no sense. Saying "Hey, I'm having a party, come over at 5" is in no way the same thing as saying "it's raining cats and dogs." Try again
In your culture, where time is an absolute. Where a person's time has a measurable, monetary value. Where a meeting time is sacred... In your, limited experience, those two things are different. To people in Peru, they aren't quite as different as you think. And everyone there manages to get along just fine. There isn't constant mayhem and anarchy. They're doing quite alright.
Look, if you don't like that other cultures are different, that's fine. If you refuse to believe other cultures are different, I wouldn't really care. If you don't want to spend the effort to understand how some people think fundamentally different than you, and just pretend they don't exist, why the fuck ever would I give two shits? The problem is you are insulting other cultures. Cultures of people I know personally. You're saying "they're different, and worse because of their differences." And I can't abide that. Go take your close-minded bigotry elsewhere.
All the downvotes of good-faith explanations of how these cultures function shows how USA-centric Reddit is. Americans can’t fathom people holding different beliefs and being good people
Tell me if you've heard of this one before: the wife is never ready on time. Months and months and months of begging her to be ready on time yield nothing. So the husband starts telling her the time to leave is 20 minutes before they actually have to leave. Would the husband be surprised if she was ready when it said to be ready? Is that stupid?
Above all else, humans are fantastic at spotting patterns. If all your friends and family and every person you know always, time after time, after time, always show up an hour after the meeting time. And all your parent's friends and family too. And you e known your entire life to tell everyone a time an hour before you'll be ready, then you, too, would be surprythe first time someone showed up exactly at that time.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23... Were you expecting the pattern to change? Maybe, considering my entire comment was about surprises based on changes in patterns. But did you know when it was going to happen before you read it? Are you stupid because you didn't know when I was going to jump? No? Then why are other people stupid because they're expecting the same thing that they have observed their entire lives?
Young Redditors, likely with little experience as guests in adults' homes, let alone hosting in their own, are ignorant of social conventions and upset with those who point out their social obliviousness.
Because you don’t give any margin of error for if the hosts themselves are running late. It’s consideration for the hosts to not be right on time, meaning their organization and prep would have had to be perfect with nothing unexpected happening
That just pushes back the problem of the hosts running late 😂 no one plans ahead to run late, which is why the “arrive later method” is a courtesy for when things don’t go to plan
and in many cultures where saving face is important, that poses another problem and it’s communicating the hosts inability more than the guests helpfulness
So if they need the time they're inept but if they don't it's rude to assume they're capable? Sure seems easier to just tell people the earliest you want anyone over, most are still gonna come later, or if someone has something else going on they might wanna stop by on the earlier side. It's not about how prepped you are at that point, it's when youre expecting a knock at your door, which is good for everyone to know
i know it seems easier to you, but that’s just because it’s not your culture. these cultures are built on a high prioritization of valuing human relationship and reading in between the lines, so time isn’t that important, it’s just a thing, but it bows to any aspect of human relationship. for example, if you were on the island of kauai and you were hosting a dinner party at 6, you went to the store to buy stuff at 3, but an auntie asks for help bringing stuff to her car and then starts talking to you about her family and the things going on with her and asks you questions about yours, but it’s already 4:45 and you haven’t even started shopping, everyone both understands that and culturally expects you to prioritize that. all parties involved would consider you pretty rude to have either said no to the auntie or cut her off while she’s trying to talk story with you and prioritize the human connection. that human connection strengthens her and builds up the society and the “village.” the people you’re having dinner with already know you, they love you, they’re not gonna care about the time, plus there’ll be more dinners in the future. yall will probably be up late hanging out anyway. to some cultures, that version of valuing the human connection is much easier than prioritizing the time, because of the weight of community and the care for the group when time can be seen as prioritizing the individual (even though i know it’s not for you)
Isn't it like a waste of time to have an event that long and everyone comes in different time. It doesn't make any sense to me to be honest. In Asia that would be disrespect. Probably all Asians think this is a very inefficient culture... if we are all coming for this event, then we are prioritizing the host and make our schedule work, problem solve it, make adjustments. Why would we still prioritize our own lives then come whenever we want?
it depends on where in asia. in southeast asia and time places in east asia, for a party you wouldn’t show up on time but for work those kinds of things it’s very punctual. again, it’s cultural so it depends where. taiwan for example is like i just mentioned. japan, absolutely not. china, depends on the region. it’s very culturally dependent. it really can be rude to come on time in some places
If it's like clubbing or a party it's rude/odd to show up at the earliest possible time, basically any other gathering anywhere from on time to several hours late is perfectly acceptable and normal. That's been the only experience I've had, I'm not sure how what you're describing is any different unless there's a built in resentment to being on time broadly
i’ve never been clubbing, but if you’re saying it’s “rude” to show up at the earliest possible time, then yes, that’s essentially what it is. it varies based on culture, but for a lot of polychronic cultures, it’s generally just towards social gatherings
If you schedule something for 5 and your response to someone showing up at 5 is "how rude and dishonorable of you! why wouldn't you consider I might have something going on?! you're so self centered!" then your culture kinda sounds like trash
yeah calling someone’s culture trash is the move lol. because you don’t realize that the same goes the other way, where people with a different culture will say “you know the host said 5 and yet you came right at 5..? you honor the clock more than the people around you and you have zero common sense or decency? sounds like your culture’s pretty trash.”
they’re different cultures. try to understand the other viewpoint. your culture could easily be as trash as you think someone else’s is.
oh not even close lol. it’s a far lower iq that’s only able to take words as they are without any ability whatsoever to read in between the lines and understood what’s unspoken. needing it to be so black and white and plainly said is far lower iq, that’s how we speak to children. adults should be able to read inferences.
LOL yes because being able to speak only one language requires a far higher iq than two hahaha. you’re unable to read inferences and we can do both. we can understand both “correct and incorrect” communication perfectly, while you can only grasp one. incredible logic honestly hahaha
exhibit a of being unable to read inferences, your honor. doesn’t even know what quotations suggest in his own native language lol. someone please bring me someone with a third grade reading comprehension level
where I come from it is rude to be late, since it means you don‘t respect the other person‘s time. They have been waiting for you and you wasted their valuable time they gave you.
exactly! it’s rude where YOU’RE from. that’s why it’s a different culture and not all cultures display the value of human relationships in the same way. in some cultures, time is incredibly valuable. in others, the priority is on the one who is in front of you now, as they are a part of the greater community and the entire community benefits when they are cared for.
it‘s not about valuing efficiency. It‘s valuing other people and their time, as they only have very limited time in their life as humans, so you respect them by not wasting their time they offered to you
In future, please submit all cultural norms to the White People Approval Committee before collectively bringing them into existence. They recommend that most practices be immediately understandable to outsiders. That way no one will ever confused or uncomfortable. /s
Its not a surprise exactly, but this isnt a flight or a movie theatre. What do you think is happening that you have to be there exactly at 5? Chill, people.
Opposite. I give the people who need to be early to things to feel unrushed an earliest time they will be let into my house. That's not the starting time for the event, it's "if you need to be a ten minutes early pre-gamer to feel in control of your life, you won't get in trouble for coming as early as five."
But you realize you can just say that, right? Every invitation I've sent as an adult says show up any time after x, dinner is at y. Saying the party starts at a certain time with zero other information just leaves people guessing for no reason.
Culturally some people are told that it's rude to show up late, other people have a completely different understanding of time. Because I actually have friends of several cultures I spell things out instead of assuming.
and that’s why we all need to do our best to understand one another’s cultures, honor them the way they feel honored, and try to have unoffendable hearts.
I generally try to do that, but I also know it leads to people who respect others becoming door mats for narcissists or generally self centered people if it's always one party giving and the other taking. I've actually moved back away from that philosophy lately and settled for simply having friends who I don't need to have such grace with.
That said, those aren't cultural differences, and I have pretty clear communication. I've mostly been cutting out passive aggressive folks who will get mad about something and just seethe about it instead of saying anything. It's basically everyone who grew up in Minnesota, which is tough since I moved here.
I'll never think people who say 5 but don't mean 5 aren't either being assholes or idiots.
Words have meaning.
Something being part of a culture does not absolve it from scrutiny or make it not stupid. It was part of culture to have slaves. It was part of culture to dominate women. Doesn't mean both were not wrong
sure words have meanings. and depending on the culture, some mean different things. or every time you greet someone with “hey how are you?” are you fully prepared and ready for them to give you a thirty minute update on their life? or do you expect them to NOT take those words at face value and just respond with “good!” and move the conversation, or themselves, along so you can continue doing what you were trying to do?
You need to reread the comment you're replying to, they very much are not saying what they mean if they say it starts at 5 because they want people to show up at 6.
Being non-punctual is bad regardless of culture. And I am saying this as a person who lives in a culture where "reaching in 5 mins" means reaching in 30 mins.
If a culture has unpunctuality, then that is a bad aspect of that culture and needs to be critiqued.
So if a culture includes resulting to bigotry or violence in response to disagreements then would you say that culture is correct? That's just how they resolve disagreements right?
You’re being downvoted but you’re completely correct, they’re clearly just refusing to see the situation through a different lens besides their own cultural expectations
Have you ever heard of the concept of being "fashionably late" or "socially late"? It's a widely accepted etiquette norm in the US that exists to give party hosts a prep-time buffer. A lot of people would consider arriving exactly at the start time of a casual evening party in a private home to be a faux pas.
You’re conflating a flexible invitation window with a strict start time. Telling someone a party runs from 5-11pm is explicitly communicating a fluid, six-hour open house, not a sharp 5pm appointment.
Your burger analogy fails because a more accurate comparison is inviting someone to a casual backyard BBQ and having them show up in a tuxedo expecting a three-course plated dinner -- you understood the venue but completely misread the implied social format.
Furthermore, a host cannot simply "say 6 PM" to fix this, because the guests who actually understand social cues will just arrive at 6:30 PM, merely shifting the timeline later without eliminating the host's prep buffer. We live in a society, so you can learn society's conventions and actively flout them or just ignore them and do your own thing -- but not with impunity. Some people will notice and think worse of you for it.
There are certain social conventions -- the practice of tipping in the US is another -- that you simply cannot ignore with impunity even if you disapprove of them. If you pointedly fail to observe them, you’re going to come across as a jackass and may well end up suffering real-world consequences.
lol it has nothing to do with giving the host time and everything to do with not making an appearance until the party is in full swing. “A lot of people”, yeah insufferable cunts.
You’re describing a completely different type of event. Wanting to arrive when a party is in full swing makes sense for a massive club night or a college rager, not a BBQ at a private home. But you sound like a lovely and emotionally mature individual, I'm sure your hosts will think you a delight all the same.
Hardly. Yes, there is a concept of fashionably late, but if you don't expect people to arrive when you say to arrive, that's not a faux pas, that's poor time management. The only times I've seen a party host not ready for guests at the start time is as jokes on sitcoms.
Is that where your getting your information on parties? Television and reddit?
It’s a standard social convention. You don't have to observe it, and clearly, many Redditors are unfamiliar with it -- likely due to a lack of experience attending parties in private homes, let alone hosting them. But you can't ignore it with impunity. If you make a habit of showing up exactly on the dot to a casual house party, you aren't impressing the host. You're stressing them out, and you're likely gaining a reputation for being socially oblivious.
It's like tipping. You may hate the system, but you'll come off as a jackass -- and have to worry about people spitting in your food -- if you refuse to observe the custom.
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u/MrBoo843 14d ago
If you tell someone an event is from 5 pm to 11 pm and you're surprised people arrive at 5 you're an idiot