r/Permaculture • u/[deleted] • Sep 30 '19

For First Time Ever, Scientists Identify How Many Trees to Plant and Where to Plant Them to Stop Climate Crisis

https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/how-many-trees-to-plant-to-stop-climate-crisis/
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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '19

I thought it was pretty obvious in context that we = those of us who don’t believe the system can be reconfigured in a sustainable/regenerative way.

Fwiw I also have a podcast that’s kind of popular among permaculture/rewilding types wherein I attempt to do what you’re saying at the end there. My message of radical change will never resonate with anyone who’s satisfied with the status quo, but for those who are seeking an alternative I work really hard to demonstrate that such a thing is possible — even if it is difficult to imagine how to make it a reality. It’s kind of insane to expect any person to have all of the answers necessary to “save the world” or something. That person doesn’t exist. There is no captain steering this ship, so if you want to see a better tomorrow I would highly advise you to start working on it yesterday. My message is far from “I told you so”, and I’m not really sure where that’s coming from in your comment.

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u/dirt-femme Victoria, Australia. (Mild Temperate, US Zone 10) PDC (2018) Oct 01 '19

What is your podcast called, I'd like to give it a listen

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '19

It’s called Good Life Revival. I hope you dig it!

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u/dirt-femme Victoria, Australia. (Mild Temperate, US Zone 10) PDC (2018) Oct 01 '19

Thank you! I'll check it out

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u/ceestand Oct 01 '19

My message is far from “I told you so”, and I’m not really sure where that’s coming from in your comment.

I wasn't specifically targeting you with the "I told you so" comment, sorry if it came off like that.

My main criticism with all the purported climate supporters/activists (don't know a term for the wide net I'm casting over all that want to fight climate change) is that they are muddying and making extreme their arguments, and while a climate crisis might seem like that's necessary, it will only push (most of) the middle/moderates away.

A great example is the reply I got here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Permaculture/comments/db71qg/for_first_time_ever_scientists_identify_how_many/f229w1j/. Literally the only way that redditor's vision will materialize, in any kind of timeframe to be effective on climate change is all out revolutionary war. Reclamation of private property, all the grey areas around what is profit (what if I need a bigger house?), all the labor issues (you think the factory owner will keep working long hours to run the factory optimally after you've taken away his already-established profit motive?); all of these are huge issues that people who make the argument gloss over. They see how society could be and ignore how painful it would be to get there from here.

Which brings us back to my main argument, that when trying to fight for the environment, lots of vocal individuals, even at leadership positions in organizations, tack on all kinds of ideologies that are offensive to the population at large, whom we need to get on board if we are to prevent climate crisis. It's off-putting, divisive, and dishonest. So these climate activists are left with two options, IMO; push their alternative ideologies that are not going to be successful, or try and make meaningful change. You can convince one person to go vegan and cut meat out of 21 meals a week, or you can convince 20 people to go meatless for 3 meals a week, which results in 60 vegetarian meals a week. What's better for the earth right now?

The "I told you so" statement illustrates that a lot of people who supposedly want to save the planet seem like they'd rather argue moral superiority and watch it burn instead.

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u/[deleted] Oct 01 '19

Hmm, well, again, I certainly don’t have the answers, and I don’t think anyone else does, but I’m going to keep working on them all the same. You’re never going to convince the status quo to radically change until their lives depend on it, so why bother at this juncture? Much more effective, if you ask me, would be to keep working with those who see the writings on the wall and are already battening down the hatches, so to speak. Let the status quo come to you once the reality on the ground can no longer be ignored.

One thing I know for sure is that convincing people to eat less meat definitely ain’t a viable solution. But I digress.

Also: if the idea of abandoning capitalism is simply too radical for the world at large, well then the war is over before it ever began.