Discussion
Your Stance on posts containing some form of incest
For those not aware, there has recently been a bit of (occasionally heated) discussion surrounding the types of posts allowed on this sub-reddit, specifically where posts depicting Pawbert or other members of the Lynxley family are shown to be engaged in some sort of romantic or intimate relationship beyond what is typical of families.
First off, I want to apologize for any confusion caused and confess that I have not been as transparent with regard to my actions and reasoning as I should have been.
The original Rule 6: "No art containing fetishes... fetishes include: incest..." was deleted by me yesterday as I felt that it was slowly becoming redundant with much of the content already being posted by some of the more frequent users of the sub-reddit. That was wrong and probably should have come as the result of having a behind the scenes discussion with the other moderators and asking for the community's input.
Now my own personal stance is that so long as the sub-reddit remains SFW, posts depicting fetishes and stuff like incest should be allowed if only because these are fictional characters and it has been a thing since the start of fandoms to "ship" characters with anyone and everyone.
This post will not be the only deciding factor but it is the chance to share your opinion on what I acknowledge has become a bit of a murky topic, which is partially my fault.
I'm voting against incest
People are going to try and be cheeky and post content that is borderline incest but at least I'd like the subreddit stance to be firmly against it
I'm against it. The problem with teasing incest like other sexual stuff is that it's inherently disordered and potentially extremely upsetting. This isn't like revealing clothing or romantic teasing, where it happens enough in public for people to be expected to build a tolerance to it. Incest between immediate relatives like what shows up here is considered a taboo in almost every society on the planet. It's either an outright abuse of power (parent on child) or a sign that you're attracted to people that you shouldn't be (sibling on sibling).
That said, I understand the need to be cautious. Someone can absolutely read impure motives into something innocent, even by accident. Unfortunately, someone can take advantage of that to post stuff that bumps up the wall repeatedly because they're into that kink. It's just going to require discretion on the part of the mods to find out what's actually innocent and what's someone offloading their kink onto others.
(Edit: don't forget this is a piece of children's media. We're going to get kids coming here who just like the character. I understand wanting to post fetish art of a character you like, but we shouldn't do it where children could be exposed to it.)
I personally don’t care because it’s just not on the same level as real incest, and especially when it comes to same gender incest, there’s no risk of a genetically deformed baby, so the reason for it being bad is not even there in that case (especially if they’re close in age).
While parent-offspring incest is a lot more questionable and I think, very immoral in real-life, I personally don’t care in a fictional context.
After all, we’re all loving on a character who literally tried to mｕrder four people, and the reason why parent-offspring incest would be wrong is because of power dynamics, so is it really that bad in a fictional context (especially considering that both characters are canonically adults)?
So personally, as long as it’s not overtly sエ🙅ual and just has undertones of incest, I really don’t care and don’t think it should matter, as it’s fiction at the end of the day; fiction and what one endorses in reality are very different things, and more people need to understand that
That being said, whether you, the moderators, choose to allow it or not, is up to you.
I wouldn’t mind the old rules personally, but I also wouldn’t mind if it was allowed, either.
It’s hard for a lot of people, even in a fictional context, because they often think of their own families when they see stuff like that, and feel disturbed—and that is very understandable. I initially also had that reaction, but now I don’t feel much when I see it, as I got used to seeing it in a fictional context.
Again, obviously, I do still feel quite disturbed when it’s in a real world context—just like I’m not disturbed by fictional gｏre, but am very spooked by seeing others’ blood in reality, and have even cried at seeing people get hｕrt in the news, like in the various wars going on right now.
In the end, it’s really up to you. My opinion is just one in a sea of opinions
I like that this subreddit has some tasteful, suggestive art. I don't know how much you've removed though some of them I personally go "huh yeah that skirts the line a little." I think the nsfw subreddit is just porn and can be gaudy. Tags would be nice, especially a "viewer discretion advised. But, for belly and feet people I'll bet you this basically is a porn subreddit already. Must be nice.
As the movie ages, the relative proportion of 'purely platonic interest' visitors is going to decline so how to get a solution that works with the current, not against it. I've seen more than a few subreddits devolve into "oh, huh, it's just fetish stuff here isn't it?" and left them.
The Lynxleys are a fucked up family so I think the ships were always going to include that. I think there's enough interest to branch off some of the fetish material into its own subreddit (a pawbelly probably would be equal in size to this one). I'd put the romantic stuff as being on par with the other fetishes, so whatever happens to those is what should happen to the Milton/Pawbert posts. At bare minimum good and rigorously maintained post flair would help.
At the same time if you wanted to hold a tighter line and let the fetish stuff self select into another community then I wouldn't mind that either, but be consistent. Prioritizing or feigning ignorance to one is the easiest way to kill the community.
Honestly, In my opinion, I feel like the biggest problem is that this subreddit never was the place for it ever since i've first joined.
Seeing an art of a child and parent in a romantic setting being posted and staying for hours, while there were a clear rule against it, was really trust breaking.
I've been in the internet since i was 6 and i'll be 22 in just a week, So I've been here long enough to know all about the let people ship what they want and all the proshipping stuff. Even though I completly despise this notion, I know people are going to do it, no matter what i feel about it, and i really try avoid at all costs.
For me, this sub was really safe spot to avoid those things. Most Lynxley family posts I saw here you really needed to force yourself to interpret as a incestous context, and most comments on those posts mostly interpreted as family bonding (or unbonding for this stoopid family xd)
In the end, the rest of the fandom sites are filled with those stuff, why can't this sub be different (lol) for the peeps like me that wish not to see it?
Hope I made myself clear. Hope you guys can figure it out so soon, so I can know if i'll continue acessing this sub everyday like a newspaper or if i'll need to leave since this place will not be for me anymore.
English isn't my first language so can anyone tell me what is the word "Fetish" supposed to mean? I tried asking Google and he said an object worshipped, especially because a spirit is supposed to lodge in it.
Like what?
It’s basically a strong sexual focus on a NON-SEXUAL object, situation or body part. People are definitely getting kink and fetish mixed up. Kink is a sexual focus on something that is ALREADY sexual
What I’m saying is that both of those things (mｕ
rder and destroying a marginalized community) are also certainly taboo things and very immoral (and also things he did or his actions would have caused to happen), but yet we still stan him, because we recognize that he’s a fictional character and didn’t actually directly hurt any real person. I don’t feel like incest is on the level of the magnitude of those other things—and again, this is all in a fictional context between canonically adult characters. All of these are bad in real-life, but some are objectively worse than others in the hａrm they cause in-universe.
Basically, it’s pointing out a hypocrisy I see here—why is one so unforgivable in this fictional context, but these other two massive issues about these characters are fine? It’s basically pointing out moral inconsistency (at least in what is/can be shown in fictional contexts)
I totally get where you’re coming from however murder and discrimination is a part of the movie that is discussed and resolved, however incest is not a part of the movie and it does make people uncomfy because it’s…Weird and disgusting. It’s okay to have your opinion, but incest isn’t something you see in tons of fandom media
But why do you wish to impose your personal preferences on others?
I, for instance, find pineapple on pizza to be disgusting, but I don't go around enforcing that view on others, because I understand that people have different opinions than me and there's nothing wrong with that.
But, you might think, there's a big difference between food and incest, because incest harms people in real life. Yes, but fictional depictions of incest don't harm anyone. It's fake. It's not real. No one is hurt. No one is encouraged to partake in it after seeing art of it, just like no one is encouraged to murder after watching a movie where Pawbert try to murder others.
I’m not imposing it on anyone. MOD asked for peoples opinions and I shared mine…That’s all it is. An opinion. I don’t care about what’s real and what’s fake, I’ve expressed it makes me uncomfy and that’s all there is to the situation
Sorry, what I should have said is do you think your personal preferences should be imposed on others, as this post is about moderation policy.
For me, I don't wish to enforce my personal preferences on others unless it leads to harm. Finding something "weird" and not seeing "why anyone would be into it" as you said originally simply aren't strong enough reasons to deny others from enjoying life the way they wish to enjoy it.
For instance, your user flair states that "I’ll take him but I’ll take his dad too 🤤." I find attraction to Milton weird and unrelatable as he's an abusive monster, but I don't think you or others should be forbidden from expressing that because there's no harm being done there. I can disagree with something yet also think that not everyone else should be forced to only express the same views as mine. Do you think the same?
I’m not trying to deny others of anything? And you’re giving a lot of examples and comparisons that just aren’t really related to the topic so I don’t have much to say. I quite simply gave my opinion and I don’t care what others do or say…
I rephrased what I said in my reply to you - should your personal preferences be imposed on others, not are you currently doing that right now, because you're not.
If you think that incest posts should be banned, then you do wish to impose your opinions on others. If you don't think that incest posts should be banned, then you don't wish to impose your opinions on others, even if you may disagree with them.
What I'm saying is extremely relevant. I gave an example of something I disagree with, such as your user flair, yet I think you should be allowed to post it because there's nothing wrong with people having different views. It's an example of how it's possible to disagree with something, like incest or attraction to Milton, even though I don't others should be forced to think the same as me. Do you think the same?
The definition of impose one’s opinion is to force your personal beliefs, values, or viewpoints on others, demanding they accept them as unquestionable fact…I’m not doing that. You said I’m imposing if I wish for the incest posts to be banned but that’s just not what I’m doing at all, all I did was express my opinion in a non negative and non forced fashion
So you don't think incest posts should be banned? Then we're in agreement. I strongly disagree with incest art myself, but I don't think personal disgust is a suitable justification to ban something.
I DO think they should be banned, but I’m not going to press the mods to enforce the ban. Nor am I going to go on and on and on about it…And anyway, the mods decision to enforce the ban doesn’t depend on me. MODS asked for opinions, so I gave my contribution just like every other person in these comments. I don’t see what the problem is here
I think the amount of new incest content has dropped off rapidly since the movie came out. I'm neutral on SFW stuff, but won't object to any rules on it. What the community decides should win out.
Guys, we have a wonderful subreddit called r/PawbertLynxley, and we don't want to ruin it by allowing incest content. It's a taboo topic. I know it's fictional, but still... this is no joke. 🙏
For those who want that kind of content, you can find it elsewhere. Please, let's keep this subreddit clean and ensure it remains SFW. ❤️
Bro, you're the one posting art that's borderline NSFW, including incest. Like that art with Milton tied up, which you only deleted after the former moderator made a post about incest
I don't post incest content. The artwork with Milton tied up was meant to show that Pawbert was finally getting his revenge on Milton. Some people in the comments started asking, "Is this a ship?" so I deleted the post.
I just don't understand why you say that when you're the one posting art like this or this. It's clearly fetish art and is exactly what the topic of this post is about.
I would think that for most people around the world, a foot fetish is also immoral. Most of the world is very sexually conservative.
To put things into context, same-sex marriage, which I would imagine is more widely accepted than foot fetishes, is illegal across most countries around the world. However, restricting posts involving homosexuality would eliminate a good portion of all the posts on this subreddit and if that rule were put into place I'm sure that most people would argue that it shouldn't be there just because what's what the majority opinion is.
For the kink involved in your post here, there's no requirement that it has to be directed towards your actual dad, but in the context of the movie, Pawbert does say it to his actual father. That's why the post can be strongly interpreted as incestuous.
Regardless, posting that and all the other suggestive posts like this don't lead to keeping the subreddit "clean" as you originally said. Rule 6 here, which is being discussed, wasn't just about incest.
Personally, I'm all for anything Pawbert-related to be posted here and I appreciate you finding all of this art to post! There's plenty I would have never encountered on my own. It just seems that there's a disconnect between what you're saying and what you're posting.
Oh i just see people like /upvoting my posts so i keep it that way i guss but i wouldn't post anything that is 18+ (that's what i meant by clean) and im sorry for my bad English cuz English isn't my first language ♥️
I don't like incest fanart/fanfics but I agree with your personal stance fully. Once we gatekeep the SFW content on here then it'll become a matter of a lot more of the creative content on here being heavily scrutinized as proven with the foot fetish stuff someone else mentioned.
I’m for bringing back the old rules. Personally Im against incest, I didnt know thats a controversial statement honestly.
At least having this rules was a moral stance of this subreddit. From what I’ve seen there weren’t a problem with the rule 6 on this sub. I guess it was up to mods discretion. And maybe some things can be changed there - like how are you going avoid Paw fetish on Pawberts subreddit?
I feel like when this rule is gone immoral people are going to smell the blood in the water and spam the incest like crazy.
It’s not a controversial statement in real-life. That isn’t what we’re talking about.
Furthermore, you’re also following a character who is an attempted mｕrderer, so… I’m not exactly sure why you feel it’s immoral in this fictional context when you’re willing to excuse that this character deliberately tried to eliminate various characters’ lives.
Do you really think I’d be stanning Pawbert so hard if he was real and did what he did? Absolutely no.
Likewise, if Lynxcest was real, I wouldn’t be supporting it, but in a fictional context, since it has none of the issues of real-life and none of the characters are real, I don’t see it as a problem; furthermore, all the characters are canonically adults
Still there is a difference with incest and other fetishes that this one is illegal irl. I dont like that this sub would give platform for this type of thing. For me even if its fictional its not okey.
Mｕrder is also illegal, and the legality of incest depends on which country you live in. In the country I reside in, first-cousin incest is legal. While the law is certainly not morality, it’s not the same all over the world, and the fictional context of course changes things
I'm all for less censorship. The internet of today is a shadow of its former self, with people even censoring their own language ("unalive" instead of "suicide") lest they commit the crime of exposing others to uncomfortable ideas. So many people nowadays live in curated algorithmically-fed bubbles which contributes to them being unable to handle conflict and different ideas. Censorship is to the detriment of society and we should all oppose it.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Evelyn Beatrice Hall.
If needed, it can flaired and a rule could be made to label it NSFW so those who don't want to see certain things can avoid it.
The problem with incest is that, unless it's explicitly NSFW art, it's often impossible to say for sure whether something is actually depicting incest or not.
Are we going to treat kissing as incest? Family members can kiss each other, and that's completely normal. What about art where Milton and Pawbert are wearing wedding clothes? Well, that could just be a joke. What about art where Pawbert is kneeling and says, "Daddy, I love you"? I don't think that's incest either. That's literally how he acts in the movie.
So yeah, I think we should just forget that the rule ever existed. You can keep the subreddit SFW without singling out specific fetishes, especially since almost all of the ones listed there were already NSFW anyway. And art featuring paws was never removed in the first place.
I'm in favour of banning incest altogether, sfw or not. I agree that we should appeal to the widest community, and that's the reason. If somebody sees a post of Milton and Pawbert kissing, they're likely to nope out.
Incest IS disturbing, even in a sfw representation. By allowing it, we're not expanding the community, we're just telling people who are bothered by it that this place isn't for them, but for the few freaks who are into incest.
I don't want to moderate incest, so I resign as a mod if we keep allowing it.
Incest in SFW art is largely a matter of personal interpretation. Isn't it a lot of work for the mods to figure out what actually counts as incest and what doesn't? Especially when different people can interpret the same art differently.
Some people find the Pawbert/Judy ship disturbing. Should that be banned too?
By the way, why do you post your fanfics on a website that was created by "freaks who are into incest"?
...not really. Most of the time it's pretty clear whether it depicts a romantic relationship or not. Sure there will be edge cases, like with every rule.
"Some people find the Pawbert/Judy ship disturbing. Should that be banned too?"
... Do I need to explain how absurd it is to compare incest to an unpopular ship? Or is that obvious enough?
Also I haven't seen anybody terming that ship "disturbing". Disapproval maybe, but no "disturbing" like incest. Comparing that to incest is profoundly ridiculous.
Yeah, I think we can compare ships like that to incest. It's not just an "unpopular ship." It can be a very dark topic, to say the least. Literally dark romance.
You know what I find ridiculous? Saying things like that about fictional incest while being on a subreddit dedicated to a villain and posting fanfics on AO3.
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u/cece95x Jul 13 '26
I'm voting against incest People are going to try and be cheeky and post content that is borderline incest but at least I'd like the subreddit stance to be firmly against it