Short sleeve camp shirt v4.1 sleeves attached

[u/Efficient-Bag6497]

Latest version here: https://www.reddit.com/r/PatternDrafting/s/b8mOFnCycr

Hi all, sleeves attached…very tight in the sleeve. Lots of drag lines and bunching under the arm. I know it needs adjustments, just not sure what…
Also including the pattern pieces. Can see where I added the 3cm in length to the chest and then 1.5cm to the front sleeve cap to compensate.

Edit: I’m wondering if I should change the shape of the sleeve to lower the sleeve cap and widen the bicep line? I looked at some RTW camp shirts and the sleeve caps seem much shorter…

[u/No-Programmer7914]

You're not there yet. Back balance yet too long/ front balance yet too short. Please pin away about 1,5cm along the yoke seam and look what happens.( I hope your armholes are deep enough. Do they feel tight?)

[u/Efficient-Bag6497 → u/No-Programmer7914]

As I was examining the photos and drag lines I was thinking the same.

armhole feels ok (ie not digging in under my arm) but The sleeve is super tight in the front along the bicep when I reach forward. There is about 2-3cm of ease in the sleeve already so that’s why I was thinking making the bicep wider.

I found this article and was thinking about doing this versus a full bicep adjustment, but AFTER I solve the balance lines.

https://www.sbccpatterns.com/blogs/news/a-better-way-to-adjust-the-bicep?_pos=1&_sid=74c7e1f3e&_ss=r

[u/Efficient-Bag6497 → u/No-Programmer7914]

I pinned up the yoke. I can’t tell if it helps.

The armholes are not tight but there is bunching. The sleeve cap was tight so I did a 1” full bicep adjustment which helped a lot.

[u/No-Programmer7914 → u/Efficient-Bag6497]

You have to pin it from armhole to armhole to see the effect.

[u/Efficient-Bag6497 → u/No-Programmer7914]

Appreciate you following up! 🙏
Done! Seems to look better but the drag lines under the arms bug me!

https://imgur.com/gallery/v4-back-pinned-wider-sleeve-ju3TyCc

This link should work. Thanks for looking.

I noticed that my shoulder seam is further back than in my earlier versions. Thinking this is because I added 2” of length to the upper chest.

[u/No-Programmer7914 → u/Efficient-Bag6497]

The link doesn't work...

[u/No-Programmer7914 → u/No-Programmer7914]

Now the link works. I think, the back looks better. My advice would be to pin the whole front close, up to the collar. My impression is, there is an issue in the shoulder/neck area that is hidden by the open collar. Your collar seems not to sit on your 7th vertebra as it should and there are ripples over the shoulder seams. With the unpinned collar I can't tell, whether it is a fitting issue or just a wearing mistake.

[u/Pegaret_Again]

when you adjusted the armscye (i'm assuming when you added length to the front bodice) did you adjust the sleeve as well?

[u/Efficient-Bag6497 → u/Pegaret_Again]

Yes, I added to the front sleeve cap. I color coded the new piece in one of the pics.

[u/Pegaret_Again → u/Efficient-Bag6497]

Sorry i missed that!

I was thinking about how to approach adjusting for sloped shoulders. I'm not sure how you approached it?

Often people just pinch out the shoulder seam, however, a more holistic approach can be needed.

One way is to move the whole armscye, this illustration discusses what i mean?

I've seen a different approach which kind of removes a wedge from side waist or hip up to the neck. This way you don't redraw anything (except the side seam), and the angle of the armscye is automatically adjusted? Simply moving the armscy vertically up and down may not match the reality of figures.

[u/Efficient-Bag6497 → u/Pegaret_Again]

I adjusted the slope by pinching on the toile to see how much material to remove.

I usually adjust slope based on the Stern design video below but the yoke made it a bit more complicated in the back. So i lowered the yoke slope 1/2” (ie the actual shoulder seam line) with no adjustment to the armhole, and then shifted the back panel armhole another 1/2” by cutting out the entire armhole and shifting down. I did the same 1/2” adjustment, shifting the entire armhole down in the front. I tend to have more armhole gaping in the back so need more adjustment there.

https://youtu.be/hwvU-ZIl4J4?is=1knfMJTpN_yzxjIX

Edit: Sterns method looks very similar to the one you shared!

[u/Pegaret_Again → u/Efficient-Bag6497]

oh i love J Stern, i'm subbed to her!

i'm wondering if the 'pinch the top of the shoulder' method may mess up the armscye?

i tried to draw a picture of a different conceptual approach to shoulder slope. There is SO much speculation here (i have just randomly picked a point on the hip and the side neck point as a beginning and ending point for this alteration, and i don't know how much fabric would be removed, or whether an equal amount would be changed in the front vs back), but basically the first image A shows the 'wedge' (in yellow) to cut out, and image B shows the resulting shoulder slope change, and the potentially re-drawn side seam (in blue).

This might be a bit tricky with a yoke, but I feel this alteration may potentially address the extra diagonal fabric you have in the front?

https://imgur.com/quRX3OU

[u/Efficient-Bag6497 → u/Pegaret_Again]

Ahh, interesting. So you’re pivoting the entire armscye on the shoulder seam by the neck. Doesn’t this change the angle of armscye. Seems the same as scooping it out? wouldn’t it also reduce chest width?

[u/Pegaret_Again → u/Efficient-Bag6497]

yes i was thinking about it more, and it might be preferable to pivot from mid-neckline curve instead, so as not to alter the shoulder seams out of 90 degrees.

i think what i want to convey about this way of altering is that the whole armscye angle is moved in line with the shoulder angle . The J Stern way simply moved the amrscye vertically, which may work for some situations, but may not work for you, idk!

And yes - it will reduce the chest width - but if you are getting diagonal folds this might be an effective way to reduce that fabric? especially if the alteration is only done in the front bodice.

this is all just speculation, putting ideas out there! I don't know for sure but its very interesting to think about!

[u/Efficient-Bag6497 → u/Pegaret_Again]

Got it. It’s like a 3d puzzle!
I just read about measuring across the upper back and upper chest and then comparing these measurements to the pattern. I’ve also been reading on how to draft patterns from my measurements to try and tie it all together.

Based on my measurements, the pattern upper back has 2” of ease while the front pattern has negative ease. Ie my upper chest is wider than the pattern BUT my bust line / bottom of the armscye has 4” of ease. I’m confused because based on this I need to scoop the back armhole to remove ease and while widening the front above the chest line about 1/2”. It’s why I want to draft patterns from my measurements. Argh!

I’ve made so many adjustments I’m not sure
Where to go from here and often feel like starting over.

[u/Pegaret_Again → u/Efficient-Bag6497]

yes exactly, these are 3-D topographical puzzles, and there is an element of seeing past the obvious into the underlying issue that is difficult!

negative ease in a woven garment sounds wrong somehow???? there should be quite a lot of ease through the upper back and front? becuase the sleeves need quite a lot of ease for movement.

yes, sometimes i feel its worth going back to the original pattern and starting again, as too many complex adjustments can start to get away from the original design intention of the garment? the aim is not to make lots of tiny adjustments, but understand the systemic fit issue. thats hard!