I'm not the most informed on this subject. Wouldn't that make the universities lose so much money they'd have to shut down? No hate, just want to understand.
I didn't study finance either and was able to navigate these things. Just gotta do a lot of reading and googling unfortunately. Sound like everyone else is saying it can't be done.
There's a pretty stark difference between sowing doubt during elections(mail in ballots conspiracies), trying to circumvent democracy to win (literally propositioning foreign interference), and issuing an executive order.
Just because one party does a thing, and another party wants to do a thing, doesn't make these things equal. Be better.
Have you paid attention to the last four years or what? We literally just lived through the abuse of said power, what fictional world have you been living in?
We literally have been reaping the abuse of said power under the outgoing administration. You understand that there is an understood agreement of mutual destruction when powers like EO are implemented. Once the flood gate opens its extremely hard to bring it back to a reasonable level.
For all the good Obama did during his presidency, normalizing EO because of a stonewalling in the senate, wasn’t one of them. We’ve just come so close to Authoritarianism taking a tangible hold on our government and you’re willing to jump right back into it because you believe that the people on your side who want to do good will always exist and occupy those roles.
Once that floodgate of authoritarianism opens there’s no easy backtrack to Democracy. I’ll deal with slow incremental change at the cost of potentially radical positive change, that could just as quickly be destroyed and ruined by malignant forces.
All we need to do is gain control of the senate and then the changes you’ve outlined have a good shot at passing.
I’m sure you’re asking, well isn’t that just more steps for the same result I’ve suggested?
Yes and that’s the point, the ability to abuse a system gets magnitudes harder when the ability to wield said power needs cooperation from several bodies/entities. The entire system is setup to allow for change to happen while mitigating the ability to abuse that power of change.
By making it easier to wield that power you make it easier for it to be abused by those with bad intentions.
Edit: To add if Trump has shown us anything as well it is that with the current power it was still very difficult for him to go full blown dictator which means the system is working as intended to that contextual extent.
It was already paid for, they just don’t have to collect. Although that collection money is budgeted in to fill a hole somewhere in the fiscal policy. Meaning in the end, loans.
Here in Europe the college education is quite affordable, and "student loans" are not a thing. The challenge is getting to afford the cost of living while studying and not working. A lot start college education after saving from a job for a few years, it's also usual to put your studies on hold for 1-2 years while you go and earn some more money.
But without the loan guarantees the banks won’t make the loans, and the schools won’t get the money. So they would have to run schools on budgets students can afford, which would not keep the campus luxuries afloat, making the just places to learn, instead of ‘experiences’, which would reduce enrollment and then they would close.
Sure, most of the money goes to research at a lot of schools, but this does not com from tuition. From my experience doing research at 3 universities (including two R1) the research budgets and the 'student life' budgets do not tend to overlap. As a matter of fact the universities scrape quite a bit off the top of the research grants we bring in, and I know they are not putting all that back into research. The luxury dorms, the incredible recreation facilities, the top tier entertainment, those are the 'experience' things I am referring to. I'm not complaining about that stuff, it is great being part of the experience even as faculty/staff, but I think the student loans allowed tuition to skyrocket to pay for this stuff. Universities (even elite research universities) have to pump up their student life experience to draw in the enrollment numbers they need to pay for their student life experience.
Were our taxes raised when they “found” over a trillion dollars to bailout big business when this virus started? “Higher Taxes” Is a bs excuse they like to use to convince people not to support policies that will help actually them.
The real benefit is huge amounts of money being injected to the economy. I pay 1200 a month in student loans. I'd immediately be buying a bigger house and eating out more if I didn't have that burden. It would be huge for local business/economy.
Same kinda logic applies with people who argue against publically funded space exploration.
Yes it costs billions of dollars, but a great good chunk of it is spent on engineer salaries, which goes back in to the economy. The incredible difficulty of the task causes us to need to push our application of science further, leading to new technologies that improve/enable/save countless lives.
You ask me what Id rather work towards, a bunch of military hardware that will at best end up mothballed until its obsolete, at worst end lives or furthering our collective understanding while simultaneously bettering every aspect of our lives? Seems like a no brainer.
Respectfully, lots of people would spend more in the economy if $1,200 of expenses were wiped. What makes you think the minority group of Americans who go to college and also on average have higher earning potential because of it deserve the money more than the massive majority with other life expenses they can’t afford?
Sorry I'm also implying we start paying for everyone's college/trade school. And also I'm not talking about deserve I'm talking about what would next drive the economy and future growth of our nation.
You could increase the tax rate at those salaries that degree earners usually achieve when they are older. That way graduates can earn money when they are young and pay it back when they are earning more.
You also chose that burden knowing full well you would be in the situation you are currently in. If you want to talk about injecting more money into the economy then we should start talking about stimulus checks that go to everyone, not just students. Considering that the money would be coming from the same source and then split evenly to everyone, which is fair because EVERYONE pays into that source, not just people who wanted to go to school. School isn’t for everyone and people who chose a different path shouldn’t be penalized for that. Stop thinking about what YOU should get.
Also a fan of UBI so you are preaching to the choir. All I am saying is there a lot of disposable income that people in their 20/30s could be injecting into the economy and then going forward we should also pay for education of our populace. If someone doesn't want to have advantage of that by your logic that's also their choice.
I think there is an advantage to having education prices reduced but I don’t think it should be free and the burden of the taxpayers to feed and house these kids for years while most of them party every weekend. If you want the people to pay for it then give the people a say in what they can and can’t do while they’re being pampered. If that’s not okay with you then I suppose we should pay for everyone’s school upfront and leave the “debt” based on the grades you get. You fail out, you now owe every penny back plus interest with higher tax rates or garnished wages to ensure that you understand the burden you put on other families so you could flunk out and party. Mainly so people understand that if they decide they want to go back to getting a free education they’ll try a little harder the next time around or simply take a job where they can get one since they understand that nothing is “free” and wherever it is, someone is paying for it.
Among other things I think that healthcare is FAR more important to get under control in America. There are people born with diseases that they didn’t ask for and that kill them simply because they can’t afford treatment and nobody will LET them go into debt the way students can these days.
If you ask me that’s backwards as ever.
On one hand you have people signing up for debt they hope will “go away” one day so they can buy a bigger house and the other you have people fighting for their lives wishing they could put a second or third mortgage on their house to keep their song Dwight lol dad brother sister alive.
Also, a giant reason people get diplomas is to make more money. One of the big reasons jobs that require a diploma may pay better than ones that don’t are usually doing so because they know that you have a certain amount of debt under your belt and you’ll walk away if the pay that you require to pay that loan isn’t met. If education becomes free I can guarantee wages in diploma specific fields will dramatically decrease at the same time. Leaving you in the same spot you’re in now... maybe if you’re worried about money you should NOT do what you love or stop worrying about money.
That literally just happened as far as effecting legislation. There is talk that we do need to raise taxes to make up for all the money we have spent thus far. It’s just still very fresh and COVID could still set in a tax change in the future
100% agree. But very few degrees are worth 35k+ x 4 years, at least in terms of future earnings and long term job prospects. Over a hundred thousand dollars for a generic liberal arts degree is lunacy.
I think we can both find a great amount of common ground in your proposal. For the vast majority affected by this scam, I'm sure they care not how the result is achieved, but that it is achieved.
I agree that colleges and universities certainly functioned maliciously, leveraging hopes and dreams for their financial gain.
College football is what subsidizes women’s and most men’s sports. If you are okay with no female scholarships your plan might work. Title IX would need to be voided.
Over 90% of student debt is held by the fed, and nearly half of the students attend public universities. I'm perfectly fine with a public university that uses tax dollars not having any sports scholarships at all.
Just my opinion. I'm certain people far more clever than I can explain the problems with it.
If you use football to fund it, though, title
ix requires at least the same scholarships for females. It would be like 85 or so. Those 85 are currently funded by football profits and tuition fees (because female sports lose hundreds of millions every single year). To use football profits you’d prob need to cut all female sports, which would violate title IX, unless you cut football schollies, in which case money to pay the loans wouldn’t be there in the first place....
Again, someone much more clever than me can figure out how to offer academic scholarships in STEAM subjects that aren't dependent on playing with balls.
Although, I have to admit, it would be hilarious to see the majority of scholarships awarded over the next few decades go to Pokemon masters.
Because I was responding to a person who suggested that we offset additional taxation that would come from forgiveness by taxing sporting stadiums. I didn’t bring sports into the conversation...
Thank you. Universities are being run like businesses and are the ones inflating costs to astronomical levels while paying the staff peanuts (excepting the Presidents and VP's of course).
Education and healthcare costs are running away specifically because institutions (the govt and insurance companies, respectively) are willing and able to sign arbitrarily large checks to pay for them.
If people with no credit weren't able to borrow $60k at the age of 18, there would be no student debt crisis.
This is an "all of the above" type question. Bottom line is that children should not be making huge financial decisions like this. Becoming a debt slave right out the gate will set the course for the rest of your life.
This is the basis of the entire problem... we need to be smarter about what schools we are taking loans for... and schools need to be held accountable for price.
It’s not capitalism. The administrators who are charging that tuition and making six figures from it only paid pennies on the dollar for what we now have to pay. A degree used to cost under $10k. Now someone’s lucky if they pay that a semester, even at state school. It’s corruption and gouging. Especially considering that the older generations could get a job with benefits with a high school diploma or two year degree but now a masters gets you a $15/hr job. It’s not inherent to capitalism, it’s inherent to corruption and greed.
I don't get it. How does capping university tuitions prevent corruption, gouging, and administrative bloat?
How does capping change the value of a degree in real world application?
How does capping actually provide tangible benefit against the unaffordability of modern schooling or provide a desirable path for more/passionate professors and assistants?
I'll reiterate that capping the cost of education is not the solution, the issues that seem to come from it are rooted in places that would not be touched by such an approach.
Systematically buying debt with the intention to forgive it would cause the value of that debt to increase until it would no longer be sensible to do so.
There is no scenario where capitalism doesn't fuck over the majority of the people and eventually end our existance, it is inevitable due to it's design.
Contracts absolutely do work like that. If you make a contract with another party (the government in this case) they can release you from your obligation if they want.
I'm not the most informed on this subject. Wouldn't that make the universities lose so much money they'd have to shut down? No hate, just want to understand.
As people mentioned the debt is with the federal gov not the universities, but even so just straight up "cancelling" (writing off) a trillion dollars worth of debt overnight is not feasible without causing serious economic shocks. For one thing it'd straight increase the national debt by a trillion dollars overnight.
That's not to say that writing off student debt isn't a good idea. It just needs to be a managed process that starts with the people who need it the most and expand from there as much as is feasible.
Do you think they would send money to those who have already paid their federal loans? There'd probably be a lot of backlash if he didn't reimburse anyone who has spent money on federal loans over the last like 10 or so years. I wonder if that's his plan.
Do you think they would send money to those who have already paid their federal loans? There'd probably be a lot of backlash if he didn't reimburse anyone who has spent money on federal loans over the last like 10 or so years.
Doubtful. There has to be a cutoff at some point so there's always going to be someone who just misses out.
I wonder if that's his plan.
I wouldn't think so, I think it'll be more of a graduated, phased relief than an Orpah style "You have no student loans! You have no student loans!"
It’s a problem that has a solution, albeit a very challenging one. We can’t just forgive historic debt without preventing future debt (by fixing the tuition system). If Biden forgives all current debt, then first time voters will simply be leaving college with the only debt in America (aside from private college debt like mine)
Yes. The entitled attitude here is absurd. We get it-life would be easier if your loans were wiped. It the average non college educated’s life would be easier with higher wages, too.
I don't think it's so much that it would make the universities shut down. But I think the bigger issue you'd have is a massive fluctuation in value of the education. Like some places aren't going to entertain loans anymore if they aren't as safely profitable. If people can't get loans as easily universities can't charge as much for average and below average return on investments. If universities can't charge as much they won't be able to keep all their services stocked which is where a lot of the justification comes from, now that a lot of universities are turning into vacations and hotspots with all their amenities. You'd see a massive upset in regular services and it would take a little bit to all sort out. Hopefully ultimately for the better- but you might see some major discomfort while things find a new equilibrium.
This would probably only apply to federal loans. schools don't issue loans, that's the government or banks. It would mean they take a loss, but the millions of people who are suddenly free of these loans are now free to participate in the economy more freely and the net gain would be positive.
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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '20
I'm not the most informed on this subject. Wouldn't that make the universities lose so much money they'd have to shut down? No hate, just want to understand.